Is Sniper too powerfull ? how did the mod handle this?

[Foolz 18]

Hey all,

 

Just a question about the gameplay / strengths / Impact of Sniper in the game.

 

After being on the receiving end and also being on the other side where I had sniper rifle with scope etc. I was really shocked how powerful sniper was. Get up into a hill, tall building and you can see a MASSIVE range. Looking down at areas where I thought I was being super stealthy, but infact were open and exposed to snipers. I do think it is a little "cheap", high impact with limited risk, high grief potential. that being said, it does bring another gameplay style/ element into the game. ie  I do admit loving to go "counter sniper" and looking for the snipers.

 

Is the sniper too powerful, or is this a core part of what makes the game great?

How did the Mod handle this? 

Any idea if there has been any comments from Dean on the planned "scope" for snipers in a retail game? (yes this is alpha, so need to understand what is the "planned goal/role" for snipers in the end game.

 

Also a question - does foilage offer any concealment from the long range sniper?

I tried to examine this myself - when I am in sniper mode, and I zoom into areas, I only see things like Trees and Rocks. Grass/bushes etc are not there. -> Does that mean is someone was hiding in a bush, as a long range 500m+ meter range, this detail is lost and therefore people are clearly visible? 

 

And Please note - this is not a "whine post", I honestly would like to try to understand the role/target for sniper in the retail version of game.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Mos1ey 6301]

The Mosin is nothing, for the first 18 months the mod had .50cal rifles that were a 1 hit kill to the foot at 1000m and could take down a heli with a few hits.

 

They were removed due to not being in keeping with the theme of the game though, so I don't think we'll see them again. The Mosin however fits the theme of DayZ perfectly and no, I don't believe that it is 'too powerful' if such a thing exists in a game designed to be as brutal and unforgiving as DayZ. :)

 

Balance is not something that really applies to DayZ but I do think that sniping will be somewhat offset later in development when more weapons are added and a rifle capable of taking people out at such ranges becomes more difficult to find.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Mos1ey

[byrgesen 1341]

Yeh compared to the AS50 from the mod, the Mosin is a pea shooter hehe.

It fits perfectly into the game and is far from to powerfull.

If it could kill someone, with 1 shot to the leg, we could talk about OP, but that is far from the case atm :)

 

I do agree, most of the time its the "easy way" to sit on a hill top with a long range riffle, but thats exactly why people specialize in "sniper-killing".

I cant tell you how many times ive either been the one on the hilltop, or been the one right next to him with an axe :)
If one person tends to stay in the same area for a longer period of time, he will eventually get hunted by someone else, thats exactly what happened in the mod.

 

So yeh, its easy to just sit there and shoot from 500+ meters range, but its just as easy to sneak up behind this dude and plant an axe in his face :)

[Hrki 94]

Mosin gives you a safety or a better overview of "field" and the chance to score from a distance. Also, the chances that you hit someone in the first or even depend on the xy factor. (close combat pistols OP)

 

SKS - my opinion if you compare SKS with other weapons at all distances for me is the worst option, by far the most accurate Mosin at 500 + m and m4 is far more accurate to 300m from SKS just because a bipod and ACOG scope (only advantage over SKS, m4 is that what one bullet enough to kill a man) and if you go to close combat use pistol or m4 (single bullet, burst fire or eaven spray) - way more powerfull and batter then SKS

 

and this new gun is for me 50/50 with Mosin - great accurate to +- 400m and also easy handle in close combat because that iron sight... only one bad thing is 2 bullets but with good aim its enough (also speedloeaders or pistol)

[drsheepbringer 10]

I think ammo for snipers should be super rare if found. I mean that's something you really don't find laying around everywhere.

 

Then I came to think about the sniping...how about we make it hard? I mean the scopes could be damaged...so one could only use snipers with ironsight. Odd idea for a sniper, but I mean optics do break :)

 

What we need is that IF someone decides to use a shot..then it has to count. I mean you really really need to get something from it. Making a kill wouldn't be enough. Perhaps shooting a locking mechanicsm so that people can enter a bunker (being that the mechanism would be far away from the door etc.).

[Zeppa 562]

Optics already get damaged.
Lets leave those buzzle lever thingies to resident evil etc.

It will get better after "ALPHA!", also when they add animation when zeroing so you just cant spam pageup/pagedown..
Oh and they took step to a right direction already when increasing the recoil on the mosin. You just cant spam shots when it kicks good.

ps. No, snipers are not too powerfull.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Zeppa

[Jack Dant 158]

Also a question - does foilage offer any concealment from the long range sniper?

I tried to examine this myself - when I am in sniper mode, and I zoom into areas, I only see things like Trees and Rocks. Grass/bushes etc are not there. -> Does that mean is someone was hiding in a bush, as a long range 500m+ meter range, this detail is lost and therefore people are clearly visible? 

I have not tested this in DayZ. But in Arma 2/3, at a distance, grass is rendered as an opaque layer on top of the ground. So people laying in the grass at those ranges would to "sink" into the ground through a scope. But backpacks are usually hard to hide.

[madmaxm 26]

On private servers "OP" snipers where removed. Mosin is something like CZ550 in mod :)

[The-MCV- 149]

Depends, it's a rewarding gun. I don't think it's over powered.

[sYs 133]

If you run like a retard - you die like a retard

if you sneak like a retard - you die like a retard

 

survival of fittest. Decent player who understands his surroundings will not be shoot by a sniper whose outside the town. Simple as that. Go slow - sneak, survive. 

[Hrki 94]

If you run like a retard - you die like a retard

if you sneak like a retard - you die like a retard

 

survival of fittest. Decent player who understands his surroundings will not be shoot by a sniper whose outside the town. Simple as that. Go slow - sneak, survive. 

 

but sometimes if you go slow you are way easier target to sniper ^^

[Foolz 18]

I do Love the mosin. Keeping it is a good thing. 

 

Question on the graphics - If someone is "hiding" in a bush -> from longer range is he visible? 

Short range (100-200 meters), you can be concealed by Med/heavy brush. 

 

From the limited play I have from Mosin + long range scope, I got the impression all  med/heavy grass/brush/bushed are not visible. Trees/Rocks are there. But does this mean someone would "think" they are concealed in bushes (and they are for people nearby), but they are live bait for a sniper?

 

Cheers

[drsheepbringer 10]

Yeah, but we know how snipers work. They will just camp on hill next to a beach and keep their sight pointed on the spawn point. Immeadiatley when they see someone spawn they just click. Fragged.

 

I have yet to seen any multiplayer game that has used a sniper as it should be used. A sniper doesn't shoot "common soldiers/folk". They have specific targets or missions. Shooting a freshspawn is neither. Shooting down guards and such...well that's another matter.

[Jack Dant 158]

From the limited play I have from Mosin + long range scope, I got the impression all  med/heavy grass/brush/bushed are not visible. Trees/Rocks are there. But does this mean someone would "think" they are concealed in bushes (and they are for people nearby), but they are live bait for a sniper?

As I said, in Arma at least people hiding in grass "sink" into the ground. making them harder to see. Not perfect, but not useless either. I think I've seen this effect in DayZ, but I'm not sure.

 

Yeah, but we know how snipers work. They will just camp on hill next to a beach and keep their sight pointed on the spawn point. Immeadiatley when they see someone spawn they just click. Fragged.

 

I have yet to seen any multiplayer game that has used a sniper as it should be used. A sniper doesn't shoot "common soldiers/folk". They have specific targets or missions. Shooting a freshspawn is neither. Shooting down guards and such...well that's another matter.

I have never, in the mod or the standalone, been spawn sniped like that before even loading. Have you?

 

And RL snipers don't have specific targets or missions, that's movie stuff. Their jobs are scouting and harassing the enemy. That often means passing on a shot because your intel is more valuable than the kill. And guess what, people used to play like that in DayZ mod.

[blackest 7]

I never fired a firearm in DayZ so far. But I am pretty dangerous with the fire extinguisher though! o.Ô

[Foolz 18]

As I said, in Arma at least people hiding in grass "sink" into the ground. making them harder to see. Not perfect, but not useless either. I think I've seen this effect in DayZ, but I'm not sure.

 

Ahh thank you, I missed your post first time arround.

 

Indeed, I wonder if this is the case. I would HOPE so, using your environment to camo should be just as effective in both close/long range.

[byrgesen 1341]

Ahh thank you, I missed your post first time arround.

 

Indeed, I wonder if this is the case. I would HOPE so, using your environment to camo should be just as effective in both close/long range.

 

Yes, this is a GIANT problem in Arma, so lets see if they are gonna do something about it in DayZ :)

But FYI, nothing has been done about it in any of the Arma games, so dont expect to much tbh.

[deepfried 95]

Personally i'm in favour of authentic damage and lethality for weapons in dayz, if that means 1 shot kill to the chest or head with a large calibre rifle (762) then so be it. 

 

I think the mitigating factor in this is the sheer scale of the map, a sniper only has an advantage when he knows where you will be, on the dayz map a sniper could camp a random spot on the map and not see anyone for a month, this forces snipers to take up predictable positions overlooking known hotspots, this is the balancing disadvantage.

[cywehner1234 582]

I personally think all snipers should be rare, except the mosin, and other hunting rifles. Like the CZ in the mod. I hate the fact that EVERYONE snipes right now, but thats probs cause there's nothing else to do.

[sniperdoc 251]

Actually... what they SHOULD DO, because LOD with distance gets worse, and what you thought was a bush covering you, shows you sitting clear in the open from far away, is have a system like in Blackhawk Down by Novalogic. When you hid in a bush you were actually partially see-through/semi-invisible. I love the graphics in DayZ standalone. They did such a great job. However, the engine is severely limiting in keeping you hidden when you are hiding in a bush or a tree. From far away you stand out like a sore thumb, and that, really ruins the game for me.

[Jamz 253]

Sniping is in its element at the moment due to the lack of zombies. When their numbers increase and their threat becomes greater, snipers who don't relocate should find themselves sharing their spots with a few dead friends.

[dusty_nuttles 130]

AS50 would cuts your ass like warm butter and its about as loud as cracking open a beer.

 

The Barrett had the aimbot-esque green box around with target range built in.

 

Mosin shoots skittles compared to those.

 

Did I forget to mention the DMR?

[cj14 189]

I'm pretty sure we'll see military sniper rifles, but not as many as in the mod and not as powerful as those. Anyway, the Mosin is not powerful, but it is efficient for overwatch

[Gekkonidae 270]

I have never, in the mod or the standalone, been spawn sniped like that before even loading. Have you?

 

And RL snipers don't have specific targets or missions, that's movie stuff. Their jobs are scouting and harassing the enemy. That often means passing on a shot because your intel is more valuable than the kill. And guess what, people used to play like that in DayZ mod.

 

I think that if/when they add structure building, some sort of storage and clans/groups start to gang up, you will have more players doing this and playing with that mentality. It would be more valuable to see what you saw through your scope, say a group of people at their little hideout, then go back and get friends or have them meet up with you and then ambush, than to risk it all by trying to take them all down alone right then.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Gekkonidae

[Gekkonidae 270]

AS50 would cuts your ass like warm butter and its about as loud as cracking open a beer.

 

The Barrett had the aimbot-esque green box around with target range built in.

 

Mosin shoots skittles compared to those.

 

Did I forget to mention the DMR?

 

Yeah man the AS50 was fucking ridiculous. it made you look like you were carrying a fucking laser cannon or something on your back. I remember taking down a couple of choppers over cherno with one, and laughed maniacally as they exploded all over the city..... Ahhh, the good 'ol days.

 

That barrett was mean too.