Military Gear lootspawns need immense reductions

[Baklavah 12]

Hey again everyone.

 

So I thought about something, which affects the style of DayZ and the KoS noobs. Military gear is far too abundant. "well how so?" Think about it. Everyone moves as fast as they can to an airfield/military base to get decked in TTsKO and have as many slots as possible for gear. This also makes the new clothing that they keep introducing moot, because everyone keeps going after the tactical gear. The fact that it's rather EASY to get into this gear makes it that much harder for the players who HAVE LIVES to get anything good at all. The KoS noobs I'm guessing have far too much time on their hands, and therefore get access to all the good stuff very quickly, making our efforts moot. However, if the loot for military gear were to get massive reductions in spawn rates, then everyone would be on an even playing field and DayZ would really start to become a survival experience.

 

Please take note, that yes I may have an issue with the KoS morons, but I also noted that the game feels too close to STALKER when the military gear is so abundant.

 

The playing field needs to be adjusted to reflect the "survival" aspect. Guns are one thing, but as I previously posted, the ammunition is far too available.

 

The second ammo and military gear is scarce, the more difficult the game will be, making surviving a real chore. That's the POINT of suriving. It's not supposed to be so easy that all of a sudden some asshole with a Mosin can snipe the coast all day because he has max pockets and 1000 rounds of ammunition. That's not survival at that point. By then it's a "Human Hunter" shooter, which isn't fun because the people with full on military gear and ammo win automatically since they have more time on their hands than anyone else.

 

What are your thoughts community?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Baklavah

[dekartz 315]

Generally, in any game, the person who puts more time in is going to win.

 

Making military loot-spawns rarer just means that there would be a larger divide between those who have time on their hands and don't.

 

That said, I'm all for making military loot-spawns less reliable/rarer. But I think the best way to do that is simply t continue adding more things that could spawn there.

[DropBearChick 1216]

Increase zombies will reduce kos, simple math

[enforcer1975 1111]

Increase zombies will reduce kos, simple math

 

Not only increase...the effects of getting hit should be more drastic so everyone running around in a town seeing another player who also runs from zeds and stops to shoot him while zeds follow both should "feel" his mistake by getting distracted by a player although his life is more in danger by the zeds.

[SxeDave 7]

You can make it as rare as you want, people like me will always have an M4 or any kind of automatic rifle in our hands. Its not the quantity im just good at the game and put 1 hour of play a day while taking some days off. But that is the developers plans for the future -to scale back the military weaponry. However there is a certain crowd that will have it no matter what and im in that crowd. What I think they do need to do to ensure that people dont have a pleasant experience at military bases is drastically increase zombie count to the point where it isnt fun to loot them. The fun factor of looting military bases is the problem especially on low population servers. 

Edited February 7, 2014 by SxeDave

[Lidskjalf 132]

Not only increase...the effects of getting hit should be more drastic so everyone running around in a town seeing another player who also runs from zeds and stops to shoot him while zeds follow both should "feel" his mistake by getting distracted by a player although his life is more in danger by the zeds.

 

Of course they need to have simplistic AI commands/attacks perfected for player interactions to feel authentic.  It was absolutely terrible when the mod increased the zeds damage output because of the trashy AI pathing to begin with.  

 

They need to fix zombies running through walls & objects BEFORE they monkey with zombie stat's IMO. 

[DaedalRogue 83]

I'm just curious how you intend to have the current user base act as a test bed without interacting with the objects? This is an early access alpha and they're certainly doing some pretty heavy logging behind the scenes tracking our movement, equipment, player states, and so on.

 

With no one able to find the current and extremely limited equipment how are we supposed to be "testing" it?

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment when we're near the final ship state to work out the spawn balance in all the equipment, but as of now I think it's an alright situation to leave spawns as is so players can acquire and use the equipment as they see fit to judge the player behavior and interaction within both PvP and PvE.

 

As the PvE evolves we'll need to see more of these adjustments made across the melee and firearm weapons available to the use to ensure that nothing gets relegated to the defination of "useless" like many of the current melee weapons are. This is the way they can collect metrics on the usage data and make sure updates are done for balance purposes later.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Of course they need to have simplistic AI commands/attacks perfected for player interactions to feel authentic.  It was absolutely terrible when the mod increased the zeds damage output because of the trashy AI pathing to begin with.  

 

They need to fix zombies running through walls & objects BEFORE they monkey with zombie stat's IMO. 

 

That's true....it really sucks that they can't control of the clipping although sometimes it seems to work. I've been hit by zeds often enough who appeared to be ignoring me indoors and walking upstairs or past me and the moment i turn around *bamm* i got one standing behind me.

 Either it's lag or what but somehow zeds seem to be able of "bursts" in certain buildings.

 

I'm just curious how you intend to have the current user base act as a test bed without interacting with the objects? This is an early access alpha and they're certainly doing some pretty heavy logging behind the scenes tracking our movement, equipment, player states, and so on.

 

With no one able to find the current and extremely limited equipment how are we supposed to be "testing" it?

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment when we're near the final ship state to work out the spawn balance in all the equipment, but as of now I think it's an alright situation to leave spawns as is so players can acquire and use the equipment as they see fit to judge the player behavior and interaction within both PvP and PvE.

 

As the PvE evolves we'll need to see more of these adjustments made across the melee and firearm weapons available to the use to ensure that nothing gets relegated to the defination of "useless" like many of the current melee weapons are. This is the way they can collect metrics on the usage data and make sure updates are done for balance purposes later.

 

 

Well if you see the video there is already plenty of testing going on so even if you don't get to see a rifle for the whole period of the alpha there are 999 other players that have...so testing is going on and we all know what that kind of testing is... ( KoS anyone? ) Also cuffing and force feeding seem to work just fine...so much for the kindergarden bullying part.

[Rudette 435]

Increase zombies will reduce kos, simple math

This!

That said, I would like to see the prevalence of military gear take a back seat, where as I would like to see civilian firearms take prevalence.

The gear gap wouldn't be that severe, hell, this crafty maniac has snuck up and killed many kitted out individuals with naught but a fire-axe!

Edited February 8, 2014 by Rudette

[jayleann 143]

When I was in Berenzino two weeks ago, there was a guy who followed me for kilometres, just running as long until I would have made a mistake and kill me for the few things I had. So I tried to activate two zombies who were around. They saw me, followed me... and I stopped, hoping they would attack us both and ruin his evil plan.

 

In the end three people hit me. Two zombies and the guy. They didn't even care that he was there.

 

So I think more intelligence would reduce kos easily, because I could punish people by just running in places where my items are worth nothing.

Edited February 8, 2014 by jayleann

[kaix12 34]

Honestly I think that airfields shoot have way more zombies at them, this way it would reduce how easy it is to go there and get stuff (although I never have gotten any of my gear at the airfield because of bandits killing me there). I also think that there should be mroe miltary bases or FOB's which are hidden in forests etc, these would not be visible on maps and they would not hold that much loot ( maybe 1-2 gun spawns and 1-2 equipment/clothe spawns) But becasue they are small, hidden and there are more than them than airfields it would offer an ability to get some miltary loot for those who play the  game safe which usually aren't KOS noobs who run to the airbases and shoot everyone. Although personnally I have no problem with how much military loot there is as you can find it without going to an airfield and avoiding KOS noobs I think that the loot should be spread away from airfields and massive cities to reduce the amount of people going there and ending up shooting each other.

[fing24 36]

I agree with Kaxii to a degree.  Military loot should be spread around more, not just in military bases.  There are a lot of houses and sheds that spawn nothing or very little of interest at the moment. Let there be a small chance of the military kit and all other items spawn in them. This might open up the field a bit and make you want to look every where not just in the places that you know you have a good chance of finding the good kit. It might reduce server hoping a little as I know that I do it as when you get to a place and all the doors are open what is the point of looking, all the good items will be gone.  At least you can move on with the knowledge that a house might produce the item you where looking for.  How many of you have gone to a base/airfield and found it looted, you hope and the place is still looted and so on, but all the houses around are un looted. With it more open to being found in other places you might just move on and not hope to another server.  I don't think there should necessarily be more around, but certainly a chance of finding it in none military places. 

 

KOS are you sure more zeds in the game are going to stop this? if you ask me I think it will increase as it will be easier to kill another player and get there hard worked for kit than take on zombie hoards.  While there is no eventual consequence programed into the game for KOSing it will prevail as people like doing it and it is a game after all. I had a good experience as a point.

 

Up in krasnostav wounded and can't see very well, I see a figure running towards me and I shoot thinking it is a zombie to find it is another player. I stop after my first shot and apologise he seems ok with it. His friend then pops up, we stand there for a few seconds looking at each other. I think we might have a talk and move on, but no his mate pulls out his gun and shoots me I gain consciousness and he shoots again and this repeats until I'm dead.  Would he be so merciless if he had to eventually pay a price for his actions?  And every time he shot me he was ruining the kit he was looting from me so it was just pure fun. In real life most people in a survival situation would help each other to survive as there is no re-spawn.

[Baklavah 12]

Another thing that needs to happen, of course, is that zombie "horde patrols" need to be added, "State of Decay" style. That will screw with everyone's day and then the KoSing should lessen. And not just some teeny tiny 10 zombie hordes... like 20-30. THAT would be epic.

[kaix12 34]

Another thing that needs to happen, of course, is that zombie "horde patrols" need to be added, "State of Decay" style. That will screw with everyone's day and then the KoSing should lessen. And not just some teeny tiny 10 zombie hordes... like 20-30. THAT would be epic.

Rocket said they hope to add this! It would be great, they should roam down main roads and through main cities like cherno, helping route out camping bandits

[Daemonkid 493]

We need more soft military installations. Barricades, quarantine zones, checkpoints. That sort of deal, and they should have a high chance of spawning damaged or ruined weapons.

Just so we can say "HURR DUUR WELL DA MILTARY WAZ HURR, SO DAR IS LOTZ OF GEWD GUNZ." but those guns are near useless. It would force players to shuffle around the map at all different kinds of military bases just to find that elusive working weapon.

[irishroy 1347]

Hmm, well.

I nearly never go to an airfield, unless i'm sure, that there is no1 and i have watched it for ~5-15mins xD

 

My only "military" item i have is my gas-mask.

Otherwise, everything i got is civilian, and i feel good with it.

 

 

I have met 6 guys, and i followed them for quite a while. I didn't kill them, i just followed and looked, where they went.

I hate KoS, but i still like to see, how long i can follow strangers, until they A) see and maybe kill me B) log out

[enforcer1975 1111]

There are a lot of houses and sheds that spawn nothing or very little of interest at the moment.

 

 

So food and drinks are nothing of interest to you??? I have 90% of my space packed with supplies for idiot teammates who pack their packs full of ammo and weapons and forget the most basic yet important thing...they can't survive on bullets.

[discipled 63]

I think that adding 5-6x more zombies will cure this ill. Either it will deplete their ammo, or force players to band together because of the shear massive numbers of zombies. But several points, they will add many more items, and survival interactions, hopefully make weather more an important part of this game where you'll need to store different types of clothing to deal with cold/rain/heat etc which will take up slots used for ammo or multiple weapons currently, plus there are so many homes that have rooms that don't open yet and buildings that don't have loot spawns. When zombies become a far far greater threat surviving will be the main goal and many more people will band together to take out the masses of zombies to get to needed loot. If they just add 5x the number of zombies in major cities like cherno or beren or even electro they'll have over 100 zombies and gun shots will and do attract those numbers and hopefully at that point they will be able to travel up steps so going up stairs isn't a good option.

[discipled 63]

So food and drinks are nothing of interest to you??? I have 90% of my space packed with supplies for idiot teammates who pack their packs full of ammo and weapons and forget the most basic yet important thing...they can't survive on bullets.

Not yet, not til hunting is implimented where they could live in the woods.

[MartinsDieHard 0]

Yess you want 3 hours of looting for some axe or maybe chainsaw soon..if there isnt any gun or better then die glitching through a wall like always...?

 

If firearms get more reduced they might also invent a sleep mode where i can die with a black screen right on... funny then <_<

 

ps: i just "hopped" big north-west airfield which took me 3-4 hours with 8-10 x 180-280sec pauses to find a damaged long range scope, so to equip a gun or rifle properly it takes about DAMN ENOUGH TIME ALREADY (except m4 SPAM*guards, they are everywhere those damn things !!!!)

 

HF, PEACE and DIE GLITCHING :P

[Hazni 7]

Yess you want 3 hours of looting for some axe or maybe chainsaw soon..if there isnt any gun or better then die glitching through a wall like always...?

 

If firearms get more reduced they might also invent a sleep mode where i can die with a black screen right on... funny then <_<

 

ps: i just "hopped" big north-west airfield which took me 3-4 hours with 8-10 x 180-280sec pauses to find a damaged long range scope, so to equip a gun or rifle properly it takes about DAMN ENOUGH TIME ALREADY (except m4 SPAM*guards, they are everywhere those damn things !!!!)

 

HF, PEACE and DIE GLITCHING :P

If there's just a predefined route everyone takes because you'll find a Mosin in X house and a pristine LRS in Y house they might as well just stop calling it a survival game and call it GenericFPSGameButYouNeedToRunAroundABitFirst-Z.

[Kushko 36]

As long as one can hop from one server to another to loot the high abundance spots over and over (lets be honest 5mins to wait is not that long), anyone that really wants to gear and has a lot of time on their hands (and doesnt mind exploiting a little bit) will still be able to gear up even if military gear and ammo spawns less often. Reducing the ammo and military spawns will only widen the gap between the casual/nonexploiter and the toomuchfreetime/exploiter players.

 

What i think should happen is slightly more of a decentralization and randomness of firearms and military/police/hunter clothing. Military bases should still be the best source of gear since those provide hotspots for action to occur but there should also be a chance that i enter a random home and it turns out someone from the military died there and left his gear or came home when the shit hit the fan or just had gear stored there for whatever reason. Every house, every barn, every shed should hold promise of even the best military loot (smaller chance than a military base of course), because as it stands now, once i get the starter melee weapon to fend of zombies and some food/drinks i have almost no incentive left to search homes instead of trying my luck at an airport/military base.

 

Also on a side note; if possible it would be great if the server hop penalty somehow increased the more you hopped. For example if i log on to a server and log off within 10minutes i get a 5min log in timer, if i log off from the next server within 10minutes that becomes 10minutes and if i log off from the third one it becomes 15mins and so on, capping at 15 or 20minutes (because thats about as long as it would take a player to run to the next area with good loot). To prevent nonhoppers from being punished maybe make it so if you log on within 30 or 45s of coming in it does not apply the penalty (so we dont get it when some d.bag kicks us from their "private playground" or if something crashes during login).

[Baklavah 12]

As long as one can hop from one server to another to loot the high abundance spots over and over (lets be honest 5mins to wait is not that long), anyone that really wants to gear and has a lot of time on their hands (and doesnt mind exploiting a little bit) will still be able to gear up even if military gear and ammo spawns less often. Reducing the ammo and military spawns will only widen the gap between the casual/nonexploiter and the toomuchfreetime/exploiter players.

 

What i think should happen is slightly more of a decentralization and randomness of firearms and military/police/hunter clothing. Military bases should still be the best source of gear since those provide hotspots for action to occur but there should also be a chance that i enter a random home and it turns out someone from the military died there and left his gear or came home when the shit hit the fan or just had gear stored there for whatever reason. Every house, every barn, every shed should hold promise of even the best military loot (smaller chance than a military base of course), because as it stands now, once i get the starter melee weapon to fend of zombies and some food/drinks i have almost no incentive left to search homes instead of trying my luck at an airport/military base.

 

Also on a side note; if possible it would be great if the server hop penalty somehow increased the more you hopped. For example if i log on to a server and log off within 10minutes i get a 5min log in timer, if i log off from the next server within 10minutes that becomes 10minutes and if i log off from the third one it becomes 15mins and so on, capping at 15 or 20minutes (because thats about as long as it would take a player to run to the next area with good loot). To prevent nonhoppers from being punished maybe make it so if you log on within 30 or 45s of coming in it does not apply the penalty (so we dont get it when some d.bag kicks us from their "private playground" or if something crashes during login).

I agree with your above statements. However, one thing I would like to see is MUCH less ammunition and large backpack spawns. Ammo should be very scarce, larger backpacks should not be so abundant... there's always someone running around with a Hunting Backpack (I've found 12 so far in the last 24 hours. Long Range Scopes should be EXTREMELY rare for two reasons. One, to stop the stupidity of KoS snipers popping people from a hill because they can. Two, to force people into player-to-player interactions. Same for ACOG scopes for the M4. And even if they do spawn, they should have a very high chance of being Badly Damaged. I've found so many pristine/worn scopes in the last day that it's become rather absurd.

 

The reason the KoSing even happens is because the stupid KoS CoD Kiddies are able to snipe from the comfort of whatever range they choose thanks to the Mosin/LRS combo. If that becomes ridiculously difficult to obtain, KoS banditry from ridiculous ranges will happen less often, and perhaps more hold-ups will happen with less needless bloodshed (I would hope anyway). Take away their comfort zones, and the KoS asshats will be easier to spot, easier to kill, and easier to discourage from their stupidity.

 

Other than all that, I wholeheartedly agree that there should be a MUCH more severe penalty for server hoppers. More loot will be available to the regular players on those servers, and the server hoppers will stop getting so excessively geared so quickly while everyone else who has a life is doing what they need to do.

 

Here's hoping these types of changes will make their way into DayZ Standalone and make it a proper survival game, instead of a "This-is-kind-of-a-survival-game-just-stay-away-from-towns-because-of-douchebags-have-a-nice-day-z" game.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Two, to force people into player-to-player interactions

 

"Forcing" interaction just makes the game bad in the opposite sense and only flips the goalpost, not solves the actual problem. Fewer long-range scopes just means that people will KoS in close quarters more and it will actually be a lot harder to tell who is interested in working together/trading/non-KoS banditry. It's very easy to tell someone sitting on a hill/roof with a sniper rifle is not interested in interacting with you in any way other than sending a bullet into your head, but someone running around in closer ranges makes it a lot harder to tell and much riskier for you.

 

I find it much easier to avoid people who snipe from a long range by using cover than taking cover from people at closer ranges (where less cover is available, closing distance is easier and escape is much more unlikely). 

 

That's just my two cents, although I would advocate for lower weapon/scope/ammo spawns out of realism, not to try and force a player mentality that just makes it annoying for the other side.

[Baklavah 12]

"Forcing" interaction just makes the game bad in the opposite sense and only flips the goalpost, not solves the actual problem. Fewer long-range scopes just means that people will KoS in close quarters more and it will actually be a lot harder to tell who is interested in working together/trading/non-KoS banditry. It's very easy to tell someone sitting on a hill/roof with a sniper rifle is not interested in interacting with you in any way other than sending a bullet into your head, but someone running around in closer ranges makes it a lot harder to tell and much riskier for you.

 

I find it much easier to avoid people who snipe from a long range by using cover than taking cover from people at closer ranges (where less cover is available, closing distance is easier and escape is much more unlikely). 

 

That's just my two cents, although I would advocate for lower weapon/scope/ammo spawns out of realism, not to try and force a player mentality that just makes it annoying for the other side.

I understand where you're coming from. But the KoS CoD Kiddies have a comfort zone. And that comfort zone is the MASSIVE range they get with a Mosin/LRS. Take that away, it won't be fun for them anymore, and they'll leave, realizing they just wasted 30$ because now they can't just snipe people and get away with it. They are all pretty much of the same mind-set. Predictable, even. The second you screw over a troll, they lose interest because it isn't fun anymore. That's the point I was trying to make.