Raw Mouse Input Is Crucial To Immersion

[hefeweizen 254]

Use your damn thinkmaker, raw mouse input doesn't mean a raised gun can turn as fast as the head.

How doesn't it mean exactly that?

[altimor 10]

How doesn't it mean exactly that?

 

Your head can turn separately from the gun. The weird ass acceleration is completely separate from the turn speed limit anyways.

[noirplusultra@gmail.com 6]

 

 

 

While in raw input games you play like a super-strong ballerina on extasy, in DayZ you play as a physically impaired fat retard.

 

 

 

I think so too. 

 

Superb.

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

It's impossible to move the gun and your head at the same time without TrackIR.

Not true. But it does require you to have weapon sway enabled

[altimor 10]

Not true. But it does require you to have weapon sway enabled

That turns the gun faster than the head. That's the exact opposite of what we're talking about.

[t1337dude 101]

I'm with the OP. Raw mouse input  = better control = better gameplay = more fun. The end.

[-Gews- 7443]

This is what Rocket said about head turning 1:1 and body + gun catching up later.

 

 

I thought it was an interesting idea that could work, and then I read your comment and realized that this is a very practical reason why it could be very problematic.

It's also not something we can really say "let's just try and see!" because it would be a very significant amount of work.

 

 

 

Certainly we want to redo the mouse accel, and we have designers writing up proposals, but this takes time and needs to be considered carefully.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Gews

[Judopunch 523]

Hi Ulf.

 

Sorry I wasn't even referring to the mouse acceleration. Just the comments I saw about the engine sucking and being unrealistic.

 

People having problems moving inside buildings should blame the anims not the mouse though.

 

Regards.

Well, more of hitboxes and lag actually. The collision in the game is a bit wonky, just run into a wall for a bit and you walk half way through it, when they fix the collision/hitbox interaction and desync issues it should be more smooth.

[sidwulf 69]

This is what Rocket said about head turning 1:1 and body + gun catching up later.

That is quite interesting but instead of redoing mouse acceleration it should really be removed completely. You cannot redo something that shouldn't be there in the first place. 1:1 mouse input is crucial for feedback and immersion. An input device such as the mouse is a very simple analogue to the human body. It is impossible to apply variables such as skill/strength/weight around the input of such an unconventional device without affecting the feedback in a negative way. A mouse and it's 1:1 relationship with the user's intended movement is essential. This issue of realism should be done in an indirect way that does not affect the mouse input. One good example is the expansion of the cross hair and bullet dispersion on view port panning and player movement (Which is how it is done in most games anyway).

Edited February 1, 2014 by SIDWULF

[libertine 351]

What? No where on that entire page does it say anything about acceleration. Leatrix is to decrease your latency and only works in some MMORPGS where pretty much 100% of the game is serverside.

Yeah, i finally did get around to trying that and noticed that :/ I installed it though anyway. The connections to the same servers i was using last night was much better, yet the patch and a million other things could be responsible too...

[sidwulf 69]

Yeah, i finally did get around to trying that and noticed that :/ I installed it though anyway. The connectionls to the same servers i was using last night was much better, yet the patch and a million other things could be responsible too...

What your experiencing is most likely placebo. ARMA II uses UDP packets not TCP packets after all.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Sorry if I appear ignorant on the subject but I am genuinley interested on this topic, so I will give it a shot..

 

You are talking about muscle memory, you are also suggesting that the mouse should move at the same pace all the time.

This doesnt even happen in a real life situation with real muscles, does it ?

 

If I am holding a light object, lets say a flashlight, then I can move my arm very fast.

If I am holding a heavy object, lets say a LMG, then my muscles cannot move at full speed.

 

Actions with either item require a different muscle memory.

I did read somewhere that the mouse cursor in DayZ, is built on an engine which mimics this.

[sidwulf 69]

Sorry if I appear ignorant on the subject but I am genuinley interested on this topic, so I will give it a shot..

You are talking about muscle memory, you are also suggesting that the mouse should move at the same pace all the time.

This doesnt even happen in a real life situation with real muscles, does it ?

If I am holding a light object, lets say a flashlight, then I can move my arm very fast.

If I am holding a heavy object, lets say a LMG, then my muscles cannot move at full speed.

Actions with either item require a different muscle memory.

I did read somewhere that the mouse cursor in DayZ, is built on an engine which mimics this.

Ignorance has its boundaries. Carefully read the original post and I might give you a cookie. :)

Edited February 1, 2014 by SIDWULF

[Zollicoffer 200]

Is mouse acceleration being fixed?

It is not fixed in this update, but we plan to make control changes. It is not as simple as turning it "off" as the speed your character turns is not dictated by the mouse itself, but your movements combined with the type of weapon you have, how tired you are, etc.

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/169526-pending-changelog-experimental-branch-033114782/

 

and

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/169955-why-has-insert-any-bug-not-been-fixed-yet-when-there-is-new-content-coming-in/

[skyline-gtr 130]

Ignorance has its boundaries. Carefully read the original post and I might give you a cookie. :)

 

Sorry I dont want your cookie or your patronisation.

I have read the OP but it is written in such a fashion that I cannot determine what it all means.

Perhaps you could explain in lay mans terms ?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

FFS, you're playing the wrong game.  Want a twitch shooter, go play CoD or BF.   This is not a fucking twitch shooter and has been pointed out numerous times that it's not.

[sidwulf 69]

Sorry I dont want your cookie or your patronisation.

I have read the OP but it is written in such a fashion that I cannot determine what it all means.

Perhaps you could explain in lay mans terms ?

Strange you took offence to that. They are really good cookies. I was also betting on the insertion of a smiley face making everything okay.

Its a difficult subject to explain without using technical vocabulary. Run a quick search for the terms your unfamiliar with. If I explained this argument in lay-mans terms I'm afraid it would take paragraphs to translate properly. No one has the attention span to digest a wall of text. Technical terms are a concise and efficient way to pack meaning into a short amount of space.

Edited February 1, 2014 by SIDWULF

[skyline-gtr 130]

Strange you took offence to that. They are really good cookies. I was also betting on the insertion of a smiley face making everything okay.

Its a difficult subject to explain without using technical vocabulary. Run a quick search for the terms your unfamiliar with. If I explained this argument in lay-mans terms I'm afraid it would take paragraphs to translate properly. No one has the attention span to digest a wall of text. Technical terms are a concise and efficient way to pack meaning into a short amount of space.

 

Thats funny because you managed it in a previous post: "the issue this topic deals with is not acceleration. Turn speed limitation and vertical weapon weight simulation is what is being discussed."

 

Now.

You suggest your solution is acceptable because it is acceptable in a FPS. While DayZ does use guns in a FP scenario, it is not a FPS per say.

Also.

Most arguments for the 1:1 is to preserve some kind of consistency with other games.

 

So, someone else commented this: "Acceptable for whom? It's really odd when a person speaks in facts and absolutes when discussing something that's very obviously a matter of opinion and design aesthetic."

Which I also noticed in your posts.

 

 

Before I continue, I would like to ask you a question.

Does the following comment sum up in any way your issue with the mouse movement in this game?

"Move your mouse slowly from left to right.

Now move the mouse as fast as you can from left to right.

Both exactly the same.

That is what peoples problem is."

I

Edited February 1, 2014 by Skyline-GTR

[wild_man 4442]

some guys rely too much on muscle memory

 

they have fear to adapt and learn new system :o

 

me too when I first try this game I was confuse and don't like it

 

but now I realise control system is big part of what make arma and dayz etc unique AND ADD TO IMMERSION  :thumbsup:  ;)

 

twitch style is great for CoD and CS and BF etc but this game have so much more 'feel' and also you need to think before you do something because everything taking more time

 

if you want twitch pvp fps experience is 100's of game to choose ;)

 

but if you want something different and more technical come to BIS :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:

 

you put 'raw mouse function' in this game and you soon see 360 no scope bullshits :huh:

Edited February 1, 2014 by KoS

[sidwulf 69]

Thats funny because you managed it in a previous post: "the issue this topic deals with is not acceleration. Turn speed limitation and vertical weapon weight simulation is what is being discussed."

 

Now.

You suggest your solution is acceptable because it is acceptable in a FPS. While DayZ does use guns in a FP scenario, it is not a FPS per say.

Also.

Most arguments for the 1:1 is to preserve some kind of consistency with other games.

 

So, someone else commented this: "Acceptable for whom? It's really odd when a person speaks in facts and absolutes when discussing something that's very obviously a matter of opinion and design aesthetic."

Which I also noticed in your posts.

 

 

Before I continue, I would like to ask you a question.

Does the following comment sum up in any way your issue with the mouse movement in this game?

"Move your mouse slowly from left to right.

Now move the mouse as fast as you can from left to right.

Both exactly the same.

That is what peoples problem is."

I

Speaking in absolutes when the person understands the topic they are discussing is not considered a matter of opinion. When a person uses "I think" in an argument they are putting themselfs at a disadvantage by admitting they are not confident about the subject. If I feel confident about a subject (input devices) I will speak in absolutes. If someone feels inconsistency/inaccuracy/lag is acceptable in an input device then they logically do not understand the subject.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Speaking in absolutes when the person understands the topic they are discussing is not considered a matter of opinion. When a person uses "I think" in an argument they are putting themselfs at a disadvantage by admitting they are not confident about the subject. If I feel confident about a subject (input devices) I will speak in absolutes. If someone feels inconsistency/inaccuracy/lag is acceptable in an input device then they logically do not understand the subject.

 

While that may hold true for browsing the web, using spreadsheets, 360 no scope scenarios.

This is a game in which human movement while holding different objects, is attempting to be addressed.

I think we can all agree that human movement, however much practice you have, is actually inconsistent, and inaccurate.

So I suggest that your argument is in fact out of context.

[sidwulf 69]

I would like to add that a "360 no scope head shot" is not an inherited feature of raw mouse input in a game like Day Z. Consider the scale of Chenarus and the players walking speed. Consider third-person view and free-look lowering the chance of sneaking up on someone. Consider having to raise your weapon in order to shoot and the narrow field of view looking down the sight causes. lastly consider the inability to shoot on the move. Take a good few minutes thinking about these points and realize no scope head shots will be a very difficult feat to pull off. This is not Quake 3 with rail guns. It cant even pretend to be an arena style shooter.

Also the indirect method involving an expanded cross hair on movement and view port panning will create bullet dispersion. A wide cone of bullet dispersion will make it even more difficult to perform a 360 no scope with a semi automatic rifle.

Edited February 1, 2014 by SIDWULF

[skyline-gtr 130]

I would like to add that a "360 no scope head shot" is not a feature of raw mouse input in a game like Day Z. Consider the scale of Chenarus and the players walking speed. Consider third-person view and free-look lowering the chance of sneaking up on someone. Consider having to raise your weapon in order to shoot and the narrow field of view looking down the sight causes. lastly consider the inability to shoot on the move. Take a good few minutes thinking about these points and realize no scope head shots will be a very difficult feat to pull off. This is not Quake 3 on rails.

Also the indirect method involving an expanded cross hair on movement and view port panning will create bullet dispersion. A wide cone of bullet dispersion will make it even more difficult to perform a 360 no scope with a semi automatic rifle.

 

You earlier pointed out that you preffered to use less words to explain something. Now you have taken up 5 lines trying to explain what you wrote in the first half of the first line.

so.....

 

"I would like to add that a "360 no scope head shot" is not a feature of raw mouse input in a game like Day Z." has no relevance to what i have posted above. The scenarios were taken from outside of the DayZ game.

So in reply to my post that explains how your entire argument is out of context, you have taken what I have said out of context.

This seems to be a recurring theme.

I suggest that, as you advised me in your patronising post to me, that you take some time to research some of the more technical terms. As there is a clear failure of understanding on your part.

[27 others 102]

or draw pictures like i did in my thread. it was seriously kind of hard for me to understand most of your posts, OP. I couldnt make out what your technical terms meant, because they mostly were very vague.

 

 

Just saying, my first thread on this matter was a huge mess aswell.

Edited February 1, 2014 by 27 others

[wild_man 4442]

you put raw mouse input and 360 no scope coming to dayz ;)

 

is one reason why this NEVER HAPPEN

 

and you say mouse system break immersion??? :huh:

 

nothing break my immersion more than 360 no scope >:(

 

 I feel what you experience because me too I used to find this game maximum frustration for master controls

 

but after time I don't think no more is instant react and character doing what I want perfect every time :thumbsup:  ;)

 

you must practise and love this game how it is don't worry how you think should be :)