Allow Iv Bag Use On Yourself

[byrgesen 1340]

My more recent experiences suggest it's already like this, people shooting on sight, without any interaction of people anyway.  So you're a day too late to complain about potential rampant KOS and griefing.

 

So basicly you are saying because its happening now, due to lack of content and people getting bored, we might aswell remove all the "teamplay" mechanics, while we are at it?

Cmon mate, even you gotta admit that doesnt make much sense :)

[KerrSG1 113]

It isn't something that would significantly impact KOS or not KOS though. People are already so heavy into KOS that adding self IV administration will not impact it significantly. It only allows people to justifiably treat their own wound appropriately.  If you want to eliminate KOS, then go ahead and eliminate self administration of bandages while you are at it.  You have to be with a team mate or you bleed out from the slightest wound.  

[byrgesen 1340]

It isn't something that would significantly impact KOS or not KOS though. People are already so heavy into KOS that adding self IV administration will not impact it significantly. It only allows people to justifiably treat their own wound appropriately.  If you want to eliminate KOS, then go ahead and eliminate self administration of bandages while you are at it.  You have to be with a team mate or you bleed out from the slightest wound.  

 

Dont go full retard :D

I believe its the little things, which in the long run, will have a giant impact on the KOS behavior we see now, simple as that.

It was the exact same thing when i hosted a server back in the mod, we introduced small changes, every other week, to try and "combat" the KOS problem and it progressivly got alot better :)

I could be way off here ofc, but i truly believe things like this, will help us in the end. Thats why i really dont want it removed :)

[badman85@gmail.com 14]

i agree with being able to blood bag ones self with these prerequisites :

 

A. time taken to blood bag = x  ( as others have suggested hear )  ( imo 1 min or more ) 

B. must bandage afterwords .

C. other more intrusive wounds must be attended to by other players ie. "multiple" bullet wounds / "multiple" AX wounds . or wounds by area on body .

 

i think if the medical system were more in depth the current play style would change drastically in a positive direction . with the way things are set up this might actually happen imo .

 

in most cases you cant force people to work together , only persuade them through mutual benefit .

[Survivor_Sabre 23]

Dont go full retard :D

I believe its the little things, which in the long run, will have a giant impact on the KOS behavior we see now, simple as that.

It was the exact same thing when i hosted a server back in the mod, we introduced small changes, every other week, to try and "combat" the KOS problem and it progressivly got alot better :)

I could be way off here ofc, but i truly believe things like this, will help us in the end. Thats why i really dont want it removed :)

 

Your cause is admirable, but I do think the benefits of self-administered IV far outweigh the encouragement towards a more social play-style. After all, those that kill on sight, perhaps not now but almost certainly once the game is ready for full release, are just as likely too be playing in a group as on their own. In my opinion the benefits of not allowing self-administered IV is a temporary one, and not a long term one.

[weedmasta 784]

-1 on the OP

 

While its perfectly possible to do it yourself, the entire point of this is:

If you want full blood fast, you need help, if you want full blood slow, you can do it yourself.
Its a simple mechanic, to create some kind of teamplay and give medics a purpose in the game.

 

I would hate to see something like this go away, tbh we could use more "team-mechanics" to try and bring people together, instead of making lone-wolfing the easier, and better choice.
In no apocalyptic event, is the idea of being completely independant and alone, a good idea tbh. That is whats its trying to "simulate", when you need two people to give blood.

 

I agree, if you want the benefits of certain things, you need to co-operate with others. Realistically it doesn't make sense sure (i.e. in this case that you can't apply an IV on yourself) but from a gameplay point of view it does make sense.

Edited January 29, 2014 by weedmasta

[planetpr0_ebda 0]

I'm not saying that either ability should be instant or even a few seconds. Let's make it where you need it for desperation and have to make it to a hospital utilizing some equipment that can not be removed from the site. Have to find a book and read about phlebotomy and related things to complete the task, Just adds for immersion. 

I'm all about the player interaction, immersion and completed experience. We're always going to have KOS morons, that's just what they play for. Just like the Thunderdome idiots from the MOD. Never going to change the O'Doyale's of the world.

If not BB then saline...not a repair but nutrition for the hungered survivor.

 

Off topic......I need someplace to keep my SHIT!!!!!!

 

Let's add some ministorage facilities....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and some master locks to the loot table.

 

Ok see yas

[byrgesen 1340]

Your cause is admirable, but I do think the benefits of self-administered IV far outweigh the encouragement towards a more social play-style. After all, those that kill on sight, perhaps not now but almost certainly once the game is ready for full release, are just as likely too be playing in a group as on their own. In my opinion the benefits of not allowing self-administered IV is a temporary one, and not a long term one.

 

I want to, very clearly emphasize, im talking about changing this in the current version of the game, not down the road, as we simply dont know what features and mechanics we will get, to encourage teamwork yet.

Apoligy for not mentioning this :)

 

I will admit, if we get some other features, better features, to improve the teamwork side of the game, this is nto the worst idea :)

I just cant see it happening in the next couple of months at least.

[crimsonbzd 247]

Besides the problems with griefers, it makes no sense a person can't use an IV bag on themselves or a blood bag on themselves.  I know nurses and they say that makes no sense and I agree, that you can't use one on yourself.  It's just a needle to insert and then retract and let drip, it's not all that difficult to do in real life.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nooooo! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Also, it really is impossible. You could not possibly hold any sort of IV drip bag high enough above yourself, because you can't reach further than you can reach. And if you could, you'd just be reaching further anyways, so it still wouldn't work.

You could, however, tie the bag up to a doorknob, lay down and it should work.

However, again clearly, since you cannot hold the bag higher than the highest point in your body, the laws of physics will not allow this to happen.

 

Edit: You also could not squeeze the bag to simulate the pressure. You would not be able to do it gently enough.

Also, nursing does not require a lot of schooling, it's more of a functional certification.

Edited January 29, 2014 by crimsonBZD

[KerrSG1 113]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nooooo! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Also, it really is impossible. You could not possibly hold any sort of IV drip bag high enough above yourself, because you can't reach further than you can reach. And if you could, you'd just be reaching further anyways, so it still wouldn't work.

Edit: You also could not squeeze the bag to simulate the pressure. You would not be able to do it gently enough.

Also, nursing does not require a lot of schooling, it's more of a functional certification.

 

"You simply don't know what you're talking about" - My Nurse friend.

[JuX 72]

I will try, but it seems like my effort is hitting a brick wall, as ive been trying to explain it to you for some posts now :)

I dont believe it will have a positive impact on the game, if we keep making people more self effecient, and removing teamplay mechanics, it will cause nothing but more KOS and less coorperation, simply because why should you coorperate if its not needed? nobody will do it any more.

We saw clear evidence of this in some of the mod variations, why should it be different in the SA? Its the same people playing it.

 

I would like to add that at least 75% of the bandits ive knows in the mod, who are now in the SA, are lone wolves, they do not work together, heck they wont even be near other players.

But im not talking about fairness here, im talking about surviving alone vs surviving in a group and how stuff like this will affect the core game.

 

We need some team mechanics like this, to make the game function, if everybody can do anything alone, why would anyone hesitate shooting everything that moves, all the time?

Is that the kind of game you want? I sure dont.

Would it be fair for new players to be thrown into a frenzy FFA deathmatch, where they have no reason what so ever to interact with other players? I dont think so.

 

Alone is suppose to be difficult, humans arent ment to survive alone, we are pack animals, we need other people around us, most of our lives.

That is what this "2 to blood bag" system is trying to simulate, because we need mechanics like this in the game.

 

I also want to add, the "vague speculations on Deans motives and your feelings about it" is based on almost 2 years of playing, hosting and reading every single thing about the game, i possibly could, thats why i "feel the way i feel" basicly. Ive studied this "experiement" from the beginning, intensly, because i love the concept.

 

As far as authenticity goes, exactly like you said, is difficult in a game like this. Not everyone can repair a vehicle, not everyone can collect blood properly, etc.

I too want this game to be as authentic as possible, but some things simply needs to be more "gamey" tbh.

This is one of the things i believe cannot be authentic, heck, if everyone knew how to collect and give blood, on they're own body, it would be far from authentic tbh :)

 

I can see to many bad things coming with suggestions like this, removing pretty much all the coop and teamwork from the game and leaving nothing but a clusterfuck DM left, exactly like we saw in some of the DayZ mods.

 

Now i understand you really really really want this to happen mate, and you are more then entitled to your opinnion.

But this is my oppinion, and im not sure i can explain it in any more detail to you really.

 

You are being delusional or just naive. The whole blood bag conundrum doesnt impact the kill-on-sight ör cooperation mechanic in anyway,

 simply because random people cannot be trusted and that is why majority of the community plays with their online friends they know.

 Random players cannot be trusted and only ones that do interact with them in cooperative manner are the hero players.

 

Please explain how does suggestions such as thing make the game broken and a deathmatch? Do you even realize that equipment will break

during combat, so its not like people can restore themselves back in to the fight, not to mention make themselves vulnerable and if you inspect

filled blood bag it notes that it should be kept refrigerated, so its very likely it will not be never ending supply of blood.

 

 

This isnt a matter that i really really really want as you claim i want, as i already explained i play in groups and even if i didnt

i can always ask online friend to hop on same server at same place and help me, so doesnt matter to me.

 

If you trust people blindly ingame you are going to die a lot.

[Daemonkid 493]

If your going to self blood bag yourself, the way I see it should be a longer process. The saline or blood bag has a percent count down so it heals over time.

You don't have to stand still, but you insert it into yourself and it either has to be your hands or a vest pocket.

You have to avoid strenuous actions such as sprinting for long periods or switching stances to much in a short period of time or the IV line has a chance of falling out, and losing fluid. 

But if you wait it out, avoid to much moving or if you walk the healing is slightly faster.

[KerrSG1 113]

I like those ideas, and certainly don't have a problem where a single person takes longer to use it than using it on another person.  

[cj14 189]

Totally disagree, the point is to co-op for survival, although I admit I would like to see some system to self-heal to the lone survivors like me. Drinking, eating and resting takes to much time and asking for help usually ends up in death, but allow self transfusions would make everyone rush into hospitals for bags and then go kill and heal

[dekartz 315]

Actually, blood/saline bagging one's self would be immensely difficult considering you'd have to essentially do it one-handed in a non-sterile environment. 

 

Not to mention: Do you know how hard it is to find a vein from an outward perspective? Much less your own? Pretty damn hard. I'm sure your friend could plug an IV line into himself/herself in a well-lit sterile hospital. But when you're already suffering from blood-loss (the only reason you'd be giving yourself an IV), probably exhausted (from getting damn-near anywhere in chernarus), and possibly suffering from a gunshot wound you merely bandaged, shit, keeping the needle clean is a whole different story.

[gorvi 189]

I would like to see this.

 

The whole procedure should take 1 minute.  If the player moves then you start to bleed, ruin the rest of the bag, and may get an infection.  Same should apply if being administered by a team mate rather than just canceling the transfusion.

 

Administered saline could slowly refill blood a set amount over the course of 30 minutes or until full.   A little better regeneration than just being healthy.

[DMentMan 707]

yeah, i don´t see a reason not to be able to give it to yourself, good idea

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

I don't think it's a bad idea to put lone players at a disadvantage, if anything, i hope the devs will add more cooperative actions. And no, i don't think that cooperation should be restricted to non critical activities.

There is a reason we live in societies, it allows us to help one another instead of dying alone from a mere broken leg.

[JuX 72]

Actually, blood/saline bagging one's self would be immensely difficult considering you'd have to essentially do it one-handed in a non-sterile environment. 

 

Not to mention: Do you know how hard it is to find a vein from an outward perspective? Much less your own? Pretty damn hard. I'm sure your friend could plug an IV line into himself/herself in a well-lit sterile hospital. But when you're already suffering from blood-loss (the only reason you'd be giving yourself an IV), probably exhausted (from getting damn-near anywhere in chernarus), and possibly suffering from a gunshot wound you merely bandaged, shit, keeping the needle clean is a whole different story.

 

Sterile environment is irrelevant (just don't drop the needle once out of container and disinfect skin).

 

It is mentioned the process should be slower then being applied by a friend. You should also factor in how junkies find their veins

and then explain why can we use syringes on our character? Granted with major blood loss its pretty difficult to achieve, but then again

DayZ does bend the authenticity in certain cases and i imagine we will be carrying engine blocks in our inventory again.

[Rhombvs 8]

Yeah, let's remove one of the last features that actually makes people interact with each other and not just KoS the crap out of anyone who happens to walk by.

 

While we are at it, why not let us use the defibrilator on yourself, cause muh playstyle.

[Bloodrocution 10]

i was playing dayz mod for a long time. and it never happend that a stranger gave me a bloodtransfusion or that someone asked me to give one.

 

i think the most advantage for playing as a team is that your are playing as a team. sounds stupid i know. 

there shouldn´t be much more game-mechanic disadvantages for lonewolfs.

 

the normal coop-actions should be enough advantage for a team, like:

-you can cover your friends

-flank other players

-suppression-fire

-bandage unconscious players, wake them up

-drag friends out of the danger and so on

 

 

if they implement actions to the game which are logical not possible for one person, then it is ok, in my opinion

Edited January 31, 2014 by Bloodrocution

[KerrSG1 113]

i was playing dayz mod for a long time. and it never happend that a stranger gave me a bloodtransfusion or that someone asked me to give one.

 

i think the most advantage for playing as a team is that your are playing as a team. sounds stupid i know. 

there shouldn´t be much more game-mechanic disadvantages for lonewolfs.

 

the normal coop-actions should be enough advantage for a team, like:

-you can cover your friends

-flank other players

-suppression-fire

-bandage unconscious players, wake them up

-drag friends out of the danger and so on

 

 

if they implement actions to the game which are logical not possible for one person, then it is ok, in my opinion

 

Absolutely, there are always going to be reasons for groups having an advantage over solitary people, there shouldn't be an artificial reason why a solitary person can't self medicate.

[Snafun 7]

Actually, blood/saline bagging one's self would be immensely difficult considering you'd have to essentially do it one-handed in a non-sterile environment. 

 

Not to mention: Do you know how hard it is to find a vein from an outward perspective? Much less your own? Pretty damn hard. I'm sure your friend could plug an IV line into himself/herself in a well-lit sterile hospital. But when you're already suffering from blood-loss (the only reason you'd be giving yourself an IV), probably exhausted (from getting damn-near anywhere in chernarus), and possibly suffering from a gunshot wound you merely bandaged, shit, keeping the needle clean is a whole different story.

 

Okay they shall have their possibilty to blood/saline bag themselves but with high risks of getting infections, ruining the bag and problems like that. This risk should increase with decreasing health/blood and stamina. Rapid movements should result in an instant problem. 

Despite that, wether being able to give it to yourself or not, I want it to take a hell longer. If it stops me from having to run around with a gray blurred screen I even would wait, let's say 3 min without movement at all. This has the side effect that becoming healthy has a lot higher importance, as you won't have to use a saline/blood bag. Even further it would fortify teamplay as your teammates would have to make sure no walker or player threatens you.

Last but not least I think we will discuss this whole topic once again as soon as the sanity system is implemented.

Stay alive,

Snaff

[KerrSG1 113]

Where's information on this 'sanity system' you talk about?

[Snafun 7]

It was mentioned in a devvideo somewhere... actually quite some time ago, but what would you have all that disinfenctant spray and the alcohol tincture for?
I will try to find the video again, but I can't promise to.