Are they breaking DayZ as we know it?

[Furtherado 100]

Rofl, if you need a semi-automatic weapon or a sniper to kill someone, the issue is with you, not with perfectly lethal rifles and shotguns.

 

I`ve played alot of Mount and Blade napoleonic wars, where you only have muzzle-loading muskets with bayonets that take 15 secs to reload, to kill people. And tons of people get shot there

[Demoth 366]

The only people who find the spawn rates for weapons a problem are people who don't server hope.

 

Unforunately, I server hop and it's because so many people do it, I know, it's a negative feedback loop and contributes to the problem, but I end up spending hours running from place to place only to find everything picked clean, even on the server I regularly play on when no one is even there. I check the player window and routinely notice people sign on, 3 minutes later sign off.

 

And I KNOW that everyone server hops on the server I play on, because after around 4 PM, the server is full and everyone is kitted out like a damn Delta Force Operator with fully modded pristine M4's and long range scoped Mosins.

 

So yeah, if you don't server hope you're going to be in a 40 man server with 39 other people who you are constantly at the mercy of. If melee wasn't so buggy because of random desync and collision problems, perhaps it would be more fun to play the honorable way and stalk someone and then chop them in the head. Unfortunately, I've done this with mixed results because I'll chop someone and suddenly they slide 10 feet to the right and then open fire on me, or I chop them clearly in the head, but now all of their gear is ruined.

 

But like deebz1234 said, messing with loot tables shouldn't be the priority. Once they find a solution to server hopping and combat logging, you'll be able to more regularly find guns because people wouldn't have just picked every place clean by server hopping.

 

On that note, I do love to camp the schools and barracks and wait till I see someone spawn in and shoot them in the face to steal their gear. That's always rewarding.

[blacklabel79 949]

it's not the gun, but the ammo that kills. Most people forget that.

 

Nein, its the reptile brain that kills. :D

[stolenbanjos 110]

More improv/silent weapons will balance the lack of miltary gear with more zombies. Bows > M4s when the zombie party starts from the gunfire. I can see it now, trade shots, take cover and bandage, except there are 2-3 zombies running towards the M4 guy now and they finish'em off or at least distract him for another shot from the bow, or a charge.

[BonnyBrown 28]

There's so much of the rest of the map worth exploring, and some pretty cool towns with some cool map designs.

I'll never understand this.  There is literally nothing on the map worth exploring at this point outside of going to a place for loot or player interaction.  The small places have too little loot to really be worth it - you're better off just going to a larger one - so chance of player interaction is lower.  City loot, large or small, only go so far as well, you only need so much beans/water before it's time to actually go do something like find people/upgrade to military loot.  At which point you have minimal options with a long run ahead of you where absolutely nothing between matters unless by chance you happen upon another player running.

 

We need random events, vehicles, heli crashes, tents, base building, etc to push people to want to go out and actually have purpose along that run.  Someone wants to route towards a small town to check for vehicles, along that run they see smoke from a crash, run into a military zombie who has a chance for loot, get run over by player in vehicle, etc.  Someone wants to go hunt the forest for tents, finds a base instead, undefended grabs their vehicle...  You know.... Stuff that is actually worth doing...  I'm not sure why they are not pushing these items as the absolute top priorities instead choosing to work on walking talkies, changing spawns to the point where autorun/suicide is the norm, etc.  Last I heard vehicles won't even be in the game for a year?  Absolute insanity.

[FishGuts4Lunch 66]

Bonny that gives me a great Idea... what if you were to get relief flights coming over and dropping a few crates of supplies across the map, say in a big arch? You would see the plane go over and have to search for the supply crates in a random spot. Try to find it before someone else does. They could be anywhere and you could only take so much as you could carry anyway. They would the despawn at the next server reboot

[Gerandar 212]

Doesn't matter what they do with the weapons people will always KoS, doesn't matter if the person has an M4 or a bow there still going to try and kill you.

[africanhungergames 192]

its becoming 'nu-COD' because there's fuck all to do once you've kitted up, and with making loot rarer and harder to find, it will only increase the 'you have something I want, I'm going to take it from you' mentality that leads to killings, it does not increase player co-operation or any other such trite ideas. Survival is cut throat at best, at worst its 'butcher you while you sleep for that bottle of water'.

I would also include in that it increases the incentive to server hop like mad and clear out several servers just for one person.

 

FishGuts4Lunch, on 25 Jan 2014 - 7:57 PM, said:

Bonny that gives me a great Idea... what if you were to get relief flights coming over and dropping a few crates of supplies across the map, say in a big arch? You would see the plane go over and have to search for the supply crates in a random spot. Try to find it before someone else does. They could be anywhere and you could only take so much as you could carry anyway. They would the despawn at the next server reboot

I hope this post is not serious.

Edited January 25, 2014 by africanhungergames

[Guest]

I think guns in general have to be rare. Beyond that, ammo has to be rarer, but I think there should be ways to craft ammo. Gathering material and equipment to put in your base or camp site to create the ammo that you can then use or sell/trade on. Say ; Given the quality of your equipment and materials you make x amount of ammunition in x amount of time (You cannot do anything else whilst it's crafting for this period of time.)

 

This means to craft ammo you have to find the tools, then find the materials and actually spend time on making them (no right-clicking "make 10" and it instantly happening) Given the risk of searching for it all and the time needed to invest, it would push more towards trading and setting up deals to get people to interact. If bullets are scarce, people will be less likely to lick off shots at the first sight of motion, and less likely to put themselves at risk in a gun-fight for fear of losing everything.

 

This would also go hand in hand with crafting other items for use or trade, so the game can develop a market place of sorts.

[deepseamk21 11]

I'm not sure of the number of non-american players on here.......but many of you have this weird idea that guns have to be military grade to be effective in killing people (I know we are talking in game, and choices are limited atm).  Rocket can easily make military grade guns rare in game, while putting more civilian weapons in the game.  Here in good ol Merica, civilian weapons are not that different from military grade weapons, the main difference being semi-automatic compared to fully automatic.  A civilian CAN own a fully auto weapon in the states, it just costs a wicked amount of money (the gun itself, the license to own one, and the ammo you'll go through lol).  Even in real combat, fully auto is only used to send enough lead down range to make the other guy keep his head down.  Soldier don't run around all call of duty firing at everyone on full auto.  it's not accurate and it's a waste of ammo, not to mention the barrel gets hot as hell if you fire 4 or 5 mags back to back (which I suggest you try IRL, in the dark, with a couple dozen buddies, quite a sight to see hehe).  Personally, I own an M1A, and AR-15, a Kel Tec KSG, XD45, and an XDS.  I would take any of those weapons over the M9 and M4 I'm issued by the military.  I can do just about anything I want to my own weapons, where as we get bitched at if we mess around with our "work" guns, because anything added isn't technically certified by the military.  Hell, I took off the stupid popsicle sights on mine and through on what I wanted.  Though I'm still required to keep those popsicle sights in my kit bag lol.

 

Rocket just needs to add civilian versions of some of the military grade weapons.  I think that would be great.  Not as "good" (matter of opinion) as military grade, but still VERY capable of killing everything and everyone lol.

[djporternz 644]

Please give me your thoughts on this. I feel worried that this game might not turn into the game I hoped for.

TBH, this isn't going to be the game for you. The low spawn rate for guns now is still probably higher than it's going to be at release. Once Bows & Arrows are in it is Rockets stated aim to 'reduce' military gun spawns, at least, even further.

 

As to those who are saying this will only encourage server hopping: you're probably right, in the short term. There are plans afoot by the dev team to address that. The main one being that they will be able to restrict item numbers across ALL servers. Server hopping will not get you much if there are no more items of a type available. And you won't know which are and aren't available at any one time. So if you find a gun in non-pristine repair, you better take it. It might be the only one you'll get close enough to see. Not to mention the fact that once you have one, can you risk using it and losing it! A shotty: maybe. A Mosin: No. That's only for church on Sunday!

 

Loot respawn is on the todo list, and will be implemented once the technical BS is all sorted. Using its lack ATM as a justification for anything is a red herring. We're just going to have to wait for that.

 

Last point: The first word on DayZgame.com (after Feedback), is SURVIVORS. You don't necessarily need a gun to survive.

Edited January 25, 2014 by DJPorterNZ

[FishGuts4Lunch 66]

Here in Europe (and for that matter most of the rest of the world) guns are exceedingly rare, maybe not even 1 per 1000 inhabitants. The odd shotgun used by a farmer for vermin or a hunting rifle which requires permits up the butt as well as two safes (one for ammo and one for the gun) are about all you all come across. US style gun possesion is pretty much an aborration exept in places like somalia, central africa and SW asia. Hand guns are completely forbidden in the UK where even air rifles are on a short leash.

 

I would be very disappointed if this game ever turned into something like the Mod that preceeded it. As things are now KoS is pretty much the rule. The only time another player didn't try to kill me was when we both had nothing. That changed as soon as we found some guns! I'd like to see something more than a game resembling the Lords Resistance Army. But hey even there the main weapon used is a machette.

[FishGuts4Lunch 66]

Here is a quote from SmashT about the first part of my above post.

 

<Work on queued login has begun and should be implemented soon. This allows for penalties in certain situations, in the form of a time out. Which means thier charactor will stay in the server they logged out from, until their timeout has expired. It's the devs solution to both combat logging and server hopping. Default time is 30 seconds + any penalty we apply to combat logging, rapid server hopping etc.So that mean, as a minimun their charactor will be present for 30 seconds. During that time you cab loot,kill, anything to that player and the results will be saved.>

[bfisher 561]

I don't know if loot needs to be more "rare".  Maybe just more variety of loot and loot spawns.  Like to find a gun, you'd need to search a bunch of houses for an odd pistol or shotgun.  Of course it makes sense to have the military weapons at the army bases.

 

Look, everyone is going to get a gun eventually so stop your bitchin!  Once there are actually significant numbers of zombies, that's when you'll really need them.

[Insannik 7]

I see a lot of people that take conclusions way to quick.

 

The reason why we played the mod for so long and the reason why we all love dayz is because of the exitement. 

 

I see a lot of people say that it's a survival game and that you don't need a gun to survive. It's still a bloody video game. Ofcourse you wouldn't find a lot of guns in real life either, but that's real life.

This is still a game. You buy games to have fun. 

I wonder how many of those guys that say "It's survival, you don't need a gun" will drop the game because after a while, not having a gun, not shooting anything is just no fun. 

I'm not the typical KoS player, I like hold-ups and stuff. But do you see my point here? 

 

In a game you need stuff to do other than running, driving etc. We need stuff to do that we CAN'T do in real life. I can go run, I can go drive, I can go work as well. The reason why we play video games is to be able to do stuff we can't do in real life (ex: Shooting other players and get away with it unpunished). 

Good luck with doing stuff you can't do in real life if you don't even get the items to do so. I can go to a bush and pick some berries and eat them. I can't go to a house, find another guy and shoot him and take his shit and live my life as if it's a wasteland.

 

People that like survival games, like it because it's survival. Name one survival game/movie that doesn't contain guns. I'm not saying everyone should be kittet out instantly but I'm saying that they need to think about what they're doing. I don't want everyone running arround with M4's and stuff but there has to be guns in the game.. And there has to be a lot of them or you'll just be at the mercy of whoever has a gun. Good luck playing that game for more than a week.

 

TLDR: Survival, I like it BUT.. Survival needs guns, we play games to do shit we can't do in real life so we need guns just for entertainment purposes.

[Furtherado 100]

Here in Europe (and for that matter most of the rest of the world) guns are exceedingly rare, maybe not even 1 per 1000 inhabitants. The odd shotgun used by a farmer for vermin or a hunting rifle which requires permits up the butt as well as two safes (one for ammo and one for the gun) are about all you all come across. US style gun possesion is pretty much an aborration exept in places like somalia, central africa and SW asia. Hand guns are completely forbidden in the UK where even air rifles are on a short leash.

 

I would be very disappointed if this game ever turned into something like the Mod that preceeded it. As things are now KoS is pretty much the rule. The only time another player didn't try to kill me was when we both had nothing. That changed as soon as we found some guns! I'd like to see something more than a game resembling the Lords Resistance Army. But hey even there the main weapon used is a machette.

 

Ok, this isn`t quite true, i live in Europe myself and there are extremely few semi-automatic guns such as the AR-15, Ak-47 and similar lying around, but there are plenty of shotguns and hunting rifles. I know several family members who it took me years to discover that they owned a gun, but a surprising amount of people on the countryside do, it`s just that we don`t have a gun culture here like in Merica, where you can buy drum magazines and pop off thousands of rounds "down range" for the hell of it or discussions about bullet penetration regarding home defense and whatnot, because guns are completely out of the question in any matter regarding human vs human use in any circumstance other than war or extreme cases regarding police work.

 

That being said, Europe is a plethora of different countries, just like states in the US are quite different.  

 

To me, being able to just go out and buy a AR-15 because you feel like it is absurdity beyond comprehension, because an AR-15 rifle is good for hunting, granted, but why not use a "normal rifle?", why do you need that semi-automatic function for it? A rifle sucks for home defense, because a rifle bullet will penetrate every godamn wall of your house, including the poor burglar, and that puts innocent people at risk?

Edited January 25, 2014 by Furtherado

[frosti 2165]

Hello everyone,

I've been playing the game for a while now and I like it a lot but...

I've noticed how hard it is to find a gun.

I don't think it's bad to make it hard but on the other hand we all liked those gunfights you used to get in the mod. That moment a bullet flies next to your character and your heart and adrenaline start pumping.

I've been reading up on how the game will develop and I've read that they will even decrease the number of weapon spawns even more. Now, I don't mind the game being hard but I think they need to look at the entertainment value of the game as well

What I mean is, if they make military weapons super rare. Nobody will have a gun that is actually good enough to shoot anyone with so basically the danger of dieing any second dissapears and so does the entertainment.

I'm not the kind of guy that is going to have a lot of fun running arround with weapons incapable of killing a guy from more than 2 meters away.. i so don't feel like hunting deer all day.

Anyway, what I want to say is that I like the game but I feel like they are taking away a great ammount of the exitement by taking away most of the guns. I like a hard game but hard AND boring is definately something no one will play.

Please give me your thoughts on this. I feel worried that this game might not turn into the game I hoped for.

 

[africanhungergames 192]

TBH, this isn't going to be the game for you. The low spawn rate for guns now is still probably higher than it's going to be at release. Once Bows & Arrows are in it is Rockets stated aim to 'reduce' military gun spawns, at least, even further.

 

As to those who are saying this will only encourage server hopping: you're probably right, in the short term. There are plans afoot by the dev team to address that. The main one being that they will be able to restrict item numbers across ALL servers. Server hopping will not get you much if there are no more items of a type available. And you won't know which are and aren't available at any one time. So if you find a gun in non-pristine repair, you better take it. It might be the only one you'll get close enough to see. Not to mention the fact that once you have one, can you risk using it and losing it! A shotty: maybe. A Mosin: No. That's only for church on Sunday!

 

Loot respawn is on the todo list, and will be implemented once the technical BS is all sorted. Using its lack ATM as a justification for anything is a red herring. We're just going to have to wait for that.

 

Last point: The first word on DayZgame.com (after Feedback), is SURVIVORS. You don't necessarily need a gun to survive.

You need a gun to have player encounters though. Otherwise you're a dead man walking.

[drayson 158]

No, they are not breaking the game as we know it.

[shadowjack 254]

Exactly, i feel like they are.

 

They need to add some mode of transport before they removed so much loot for example. No one wants to run around a forest for ten hours for one item and that's what the vehicles are for. If they carry on down this path then i can see this game becoming a niche for a tiny market of players who will not make this franchise the great franchise that it could actually be.

 

Such a shame.

 

And if it that be its fate thats ok with me.  10,000 hardcore players fighting for slots on the last 20 servers. Works for me.  :)

[Luc1fer 53]

I'm not sure of the number of non-american players on here.......but many of you have this weird idea that guns have to be military grade to be effective in killing people (I know we are talking in game, and choices are limited atm). Rocket can easily make military grade guns rare in game, while putting more civilian weapons in the game. Here in good ol Merica, civilian weapons are not that different from military grade weapons, the main difference being semi-automatic compared to fully automatic. A civilian CAN own a fully auto weapon in the states, it just costs a wicked amount of money (the gun itself, the license to own one, and the ammo you'll go through lol). Even in real combat, fully auto is only used to send enough lead down range to make the other guy keep his head down. Soldier don't run around all call of duty firing at everyone on full auto. it's not accurate and it's a waste of ammo, not to mention the barrel gets hot as hell if you fire 4 or 5 mags back to back (which I suggest you try IRL, in the dark, with a couple dozen buddies, quite a sight to see hehe). Personally, I own an M1A, and AR-15, a Kel Tec KSG, XD45, and an XDS. I would take any of those weapons over the M9 and M4 I'm issued by the military. I can do just about anything I want to my own weapons, where as we get bitched at if we mess around with our "work" guns, because anything added isn't technically certified by the military. Hell, I took off the stupid popsicle sights on mine and through on what I wanted. Though I'm still required to keep those popsicle sights in my kit bag lol.

Rocket just needs to add civilian versions of some of the military grade weapons. I think that would be great. Not as "good" (matter of opinion) as military grade, but still VERY capable of killing everything and everyone lol.

Can I take my holidays at your house? :)

[-MadTommy 367]

OP IMO they are trying to fix dayz as we know it.

 

The game will be a lot more fun when high powered rifles & scopes are incredibly rare, or non existent.  Personally i think the vast majority of players should be armed solely with malee weapons.  Nothing would be more fun than being help up by bandits armed with bats & axes!

 

I actually think it should be ammo that is very very rare.... so you might have a gun but only one bullet!

 

Dayz mod was just another shooter in the end... Dayz should be different and be a survival game, not another shooter.

[terminal_boy 860]

Things about software development that I've learned from 20 years of testing things full of software:

- Sometimes fixing issue X breaks previously working code module Y, requiring Y to be modified. If fixing issue X is more important than breaking Y, Y will stay broken until the Devs can fit fixing it into their work schedule.

- On introducing new feature E, the Devs realise that the framework they used for E is really good and they could improve features A through D by using the new framework. Doing this might break A through D while the Devs optimise the code for these features.

Or my all-time favourite:

- Due to poor documentation, a minor change in some legacy code no-one's changed in years results in a major regression/loss of stability until the Devs can figure out what's going on.

[FishGuts4Lunch 66]

Yeah TB, It's a real minefield!

[janol 65]

 

The reason why we played the mod for so long and the reason why we all love dayz is because of the exitement. 

 

I don't agree with your use of the word "we".