[POLL] - 3PP / 1PP and seeing round corners

[djporternz 644]

OK, sorry for bringing this up *again* but it seems that the playerbase is divided into roughly four categories on this matter with no-one budging, so, let's see how big each category is and how much weight each opinion is deserving of, because that's one thing a forum discussion can't ever show - all it does show is which posters have the most time on their hands ;)

 

Full discussion thread is here

 

 

Quick summary of the discussion:

 

3PP allows you to see over/around walls rather thanthe vision being based on your character's line of sight, read the OP from the thread linked above for more details. Does this affect you?

No.

 

Nothing new here, no new suggestions, nothing that hasn't been brought up and discussed to death in any of the other myriad posts. Now move on, ffs!

[Heiduk 265]

Well with the logic of the 1st person advocates, wouldn't it be less hardcore to use helper like TrackIR or Joysticks?

Isn't it way more hardcore to fly blind, without using hands?

Where is the outcry, that he is in unfair advantage?

Unlike 3rd person, TrackIr is not available for everyone being built in.

Could it be that the one who started that 3rd person hater discussion is using an advantage giving gadget himself?

But yes, his flying skills definately are adorable. It's just not for everyone.

 

This forum really needs a "Give Rotten Kiwi" button.

[Ken Bean 175]

This forum really needs a "Give Rotten Kiwi" button.

Explain? Aren't they crying "exploit" and "unfair advantage" at every corner?

Afraid to be measured on your own standards?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[mercules 1290]

Well with the logic of the 1st person advocates, wouldn't it be less hardcore to use helper like TrackIR or Joysticks?

Isn't it way more hardcore to fly blind, without using hands?

Where is the outcry, that he is in unfair advantage?

Unlike 3rd person, TrackIr is not available for everyone being built in.

Could it be that the one who started that 3rd person hater discussion is using advantage giving gadgets himself?

Would be the mother of irony, I suppose.

But yes, his flying skills definately are adorable. It's just not for everyone.

 

You can do something very similar with a webcam and a program or by assigning head turning to various keys. I had already set something similar on my keypad but really like the TrackIR for the level of immersion it adds. I "glance" right and my view swings for me. 

Until you start dictating what GPUs and CPUs people use and how speedy their internet is you won't be able to balance the field as far as hardware goes. Some people will simply live in places with better internet or have better hardware.

[mercules 1290]

Explain? Aren't they crying "exploit" and "unfair advantage" at every corner?

Afraid to be measured on your own standards?

 

TrackIR can be troublesome as well. For one thing I have literally run off a building because a slight tilt in my head left my viewing angle skewed and I thought I was going straight when I was in fact running at an angle. I've also missed shots because where my gun was pointing was not lined up with where I thought it was because of my head turn. I often forces you to look down the sights to be certain where your gun is pointed while someone without one can draw a simple dot on their monitor and use that as an aiming point on no crosshair servers(if you think some people are not doing that....). It has advantages and drawbacks to it. 

What TrackIR really does is it adds to immersion of the game. Funny how some of the 1st person advocates who claim 1st person is more immersive also use items like TrackIR or Occulus Rift. 

[dallas 5195]

People vote every time they join a server.

[Heiduk 265]

Explain? Aren't they crying "exploit" and "unfair advantage" at every corner?

Afraid to be measured on your own standards?

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

[floj 393]

People vote every time they join a server.

There is no B or C vote when you join a server. So not really.

[Ken Bean 175]

Ahm, don't get me wrong, I'm not starting to bitch about or trying to ban or fix trackir. Cool thing I suppose, sounds interesting.

But still, there are two types of server, that little choice shouldn't be too troublesome.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[mercules 1290]

Ahm, don't get me wrong, I'm not starting to bitch about or trying to ban or fix trackir. Cool thing I suppose, sounds interesting.

But still, there are two types of server, that little choice shouldn't be too troublesome.

 

Well, it can be.

To create an analogy. Say I offer you the choice between a mild shock and a heavier shock, obviously most people will want the mild shock even if a few will try for the heavier one and see what it is like. If we tie rewards to it like if you take a mild shock you get a candybar but if you take a heavy shock you get cash that is about the same amount as the candy bar. The cash is a slightly more rewarding experience since you can use it for anything while a candybar is a pretty nice reward a sort of instant gratification thing. There are people who would rather have the small shock and take the candybar and convince themselves it is just as good as cash rather than deal with the heavier shock. 

Where am I going with this? Well, several of the people I have convinced (read, told them I was switching my server to first pearson) to try first person reported to me that while they were uncomfortable and it makes the game less easy, they actually found the challenge and perspective to be more rewarding. Even so a lot of them went right back to 3rd person servers because... again... it was less painful. Many would play on 3rd most of the time and only join 1st person servers when they were looking for something in particular from the experience (meaning, "Not a candybar.")

Heck, I play mostly on 3rd person servers because those are the easiest to find and my friends like that it is easier. 

So sometimes having two choices really means you only have one and the perception that there is two choices. Realistically, as far as the mod has been concerned, having 1st and 3rd person servers means you have 3rd person servers with one or two 1st person servers. 

People just take the easy route. I'm as guilty as the rest. 

 

[Ken Bean 175]

Well, it can be.

To create an analogy. Say I offer you the choice between a mild shock and a heavier shock, obviously most people will want the mild shock even if a few will try for the heavier one and see what it is like. If we tie rewards to it like if you take a mild shock you get a candybar but if you take a heavy shock you get cash that is about the same amount as the candy bar. The cash is a slightly more rewarding experience since you can use it for anything while a candybar is a pretty nice reward a sort of instant gratification thing. There are people who would rather have the small shock and take the candybar and convince themselves it is just as good as cash rather than deal with the heavier shock.

Where am I going with this? Well, several of the people I have convinced (read, told them I was switching my server to first pearson) to try first person reported to me that while they were uncomfortable and it makes the game less easy, they actually found the challenge and perspective to be more rewarding. Even so a lot of them went right back to 3rd person servers because... again... it was less painful. Many would play on 3rd most of the time and only join 1st person servers when they were looking for something in particular from the experience (meaning, "Not a candybar.")

Heck, I play mostly on 3rd person servers because those are the easiest to find and my friends like that it is easier.

So sometimes having two choices really means you only have one and the perception that there is two choices. Realistically, as far as the mod has been concerned, having 1st and 3rd person servers means you have 3rd person servers with one or two 1st person servers.

People just take the easy route. I'm as guilty as the rest.

That analogie is borked in the very first place. Its not an "or" case, its an "and" case since both variants are available at every time. I know both of them and I like both of them. Having both enriches the game. Keep your "you only can have one" thing for something else.

I actually enjoy playing on 1st person server as well. Untill the limited view, the handling, hanging in doors, the lack of orientation etc gets oppressive and drives me nuts. Takes 1 to 2 hours on average.

1st.and 3rd.person server offer two slightly different variants of the game, both are valuable. The gameplay is different. 1st person view is in a nutshell with lower pace, while 3rd person view has a wider scope with faster pace. I enjoy wider scopes as well. They are more open and feel way more free.

Please don't take the gems out of that game. Making a choice, pressing the button which brings you to the server of your preference. It could be so easy...

Sigh, all that bitching and crying for years now in essence just because some folks is not able to manage a simple choice or buttons and or is unable to accept a different view.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[dsi24 227]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

You know someone is at the end of their wits when their whole post can be deconstructed by a handful of fallacies.

 

Also check this out. Only Possible In First Person Only The first three minutes of this are all that is needed to dump third person for good.

[pa_foster 10]

As i said in another thread on this subject - playing FPV makes me queasy after only a few minutes of playing - even with head-bobbing turned down to the minimum. Fix that and I'll happily play FPV. Or fix the TPV seeing from cover problem. Either way, I'm happy...

[floj 393]

As i said in another thread on this subject - playing FPV makes me queasy after only a few minutes of playing - even with head-bobbing turned down to the minimum. Fix that and I'll happily play FPV. Or fix the TPV seeing from cover problem. Either way, I'm happy...

Estimates are 10-50% of players can get motion sickness from FPS, so you're not alone there. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/19/video-games-makes-me-sick

 

Found this interesting as well http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/26/4862474/video-games-and-motion-sickness-dying-light-techland-fps

[Atomizer 53]

As i said in another thread on this subject - playing FPV makes me queasy after only a few minutes of playing - even with head-bobbing turned down to the minimum. Fix that and I'll happily play FPV. Or fix the TPV seeing from cover problem. Either way, I'm happy...

I assume you tried adjusting your FOV as well? My guess is having the slider all the way on the right, but not having motion sickness I can only suggest things.

 

This is the only reason I can support for third person, as I play a lot of FP games and third person just does not make sense for this kind of game, especially since it is striving to be a more realistic/authentic experience.

[schmotto 32]

.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Blotto

[RaxUK 61]

If you are so concerned with people peeking over walls and around corners why would you play 3pp. I mean, isn't that  kind of the whole point of 3pp really? I don't see any discussion to be had here or why some loaded questions on a poll will make any difference.

[dsi24 227]

If you are so concerned with people peeking over walls and around corners why would you play 3pp. I mean, isn't that  kind of the whole point of 3pp really? I don't see any discussion to be had here or why some loaded questions on a poll will make any difference.

If Rocket goes ahead with the idea of just keeping two different games instead of one game (2 hives with vastly different gameplay instead of 1 hive) then either A) Dev time will be split evenly between two different games, making new things come at an even slower pace (a mirror for looking around corners would be great for first person, but who gives a rat's ass in third person world?) or B) one of the games will become depreciated due to the other getting features accustomed to it (a dug in stash in the ground would be great for first person, it'd be hard for people to scan for them constantly, in third person world all you do is include a bit more of the ground in your screen and bam you're scanning a massive area from a close to top-down perspective, who would ever use stashes in such a game?)

Edited January 18, 2014 by Dsi1

[blurhitz 244]

The Fourth Wall beats all the 1PP players arguments, and I don't see why it wouldn't be implemented.

I like playing 1PP more than on 3PP, but I think that when people come to the point of wanting to destroy something just because they don't like it (and still they have the option of playing the way they want in certain servers), they are being immature. No need to kill 3PP, just put the Fourth Wall thing, that is a genius idea. I like looking at my character while I play and I'm conscious enough to know that I'm not the character and that's why there's no need to bring it to 200% reality, which, in fact, is impossible for this game. For now, the 1PP players can play on 1PP servers and vice-versa to 3PP.

 

Incredible how people's ideas are selfish here. I'm tired, because a huge part of this community is about "I don't like it so take it out of the game and done". People don't think about solutions, people think of what they want and fuck the rest - the rest doesn't matter for them. 

[wartzilla 182]

I play third-person because it is such a gigantic advantage and I am a risk-averse idiot.

 

I'd honestly prefer it if third person was removed, but I'd enjoy it if movement, animation and character actions were made about a thousand times more fluid before that happens.

[Ken Bean 175]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

Well, was that pointed at me?

In that case you either don't understand my posts or rules of logic.

Also please learn to join a server of your preference. Do you think a tutorial could help you out of most of the trouble?

Reality can be cruel. Sometimes there just are troublesome options. Do I join a 1st or 3rd person server? A subject of heavy reasoning, deep philosphy digging at the edge of what holds our universe together.

Now don't just chose what you enjoy - this would be way too easy.

Hold a minute. No, hold a year. Think that through. Better hold a life time. Make forum topics. Then demand the choice to be removed. Thats how we are doing in real life the whole day. At the backers, in the grocery store, at breakfast uppon deciding the spread....

Life is so complicated. No one would expect to be happy by just clicking a simple button.

Behoooold!

And if we got that nailed, lets fix the backers too. They holding up our lifes for too long now!

Don't become one of this mindless costumers which say: "Oh, that's the option I like best. Lets chose it.". You know that they are doing wrong. Once you understood this, you have become the superior one, you are a true hardcore being. Lets advance to level two.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[The-MCV- 149]

I love 3PP and seeing my characters from behind, but I don't mind a solution to keep it. I believe there's a higher chance to get shot at if you pop into someone at 1PP than at 3PP when you have a few extra seconds of seeing a potential enemy and assert the situation better. I can live with being seen from around the corner and have a guy pop out with the aim already on my head.

Edited January 18, 2014 by DontGoToBalotaAlone

[gamer222 86]

Imagine you got chocolate with nuts and you give your friend that chocolate he reads it and he says hey man I'm sorry but I can't eat this chocolate cuz im allergic on nuts I can eat only regular chocolate what would you do force feed him? Like eat my chocolate nuts cuz i like it lol

[Skinup69 24]

1% sample size for a 1 million population would actually be very significant statistically (99+% confidence interval and 1% margin of error), so long as that's a random selection. But I'm really not expecting 10,000 votes.

If it manages to make it to about 400 votes then we get 95% confidence and 5% margin of error which might be attainable and is still incredibly meaningful data.

No it wouldn't and u can't make a decision off not even 1% duh

[Skinup69 24]

Ok so 4th wall it is for 3rd person!

Great poll made a massive difference, fresh air much?