A suggestion that could change the way everyone plays dayz and add more realism.

[Gank Moody 12]

Just like to say to the dev props on the game thus far,

This game is based on essentially cause and effect. Not eating will cause you to be hungry and effectively make you starve to death. Same with your health untreated injuries will cause you die. This is nothing new to dayz but what is missing is your mental state.

In real life when a person shoots an unarmed or defenceless person or multiple people for no other reason than personal gratification they are considered mentally unstable. If a soldier or police officer justifiably kills in the line of duty they are deemed a hero. If someone helps another person and shows compassion for fellow man they are praised and considered a heathy functioning member of society. So my suggestion is why not incorporate that into this game.

When you eat it says your full, when you use antibiotics it's says you wounds are healing. So when you kill why can the devs incorporate a system the determine why and how you do it and this effects your character in a positive or negative manner.

For example: if a geared player is sitting on a hill killing defenceless spawns they should be considered not right in the head. So the more you kill without justification the lower your mental state drops and vice versa the more you kill in either self defence or in a fair battle the higher you mental state goes.

So how does this effect your character? (Now these are just suggestions) if your mental state drops to a certain point it could warn you like when your hungry or hurt. It could say something like "your not thinking clearly" or "you start to hear voices" and this could effect you in a few different ways. Like you could kill to the point of insanity where maybe you start seeing things like other players than aren't there or zombies. (How funny would it be to see a bandit at noob hill shooting at nothing lol in turn giving away their positions) or maybe it effects your vision and/or your ability to accurately fire your weapon, maybe even to the point of suicide. (again just suggestions) On the other side how would a justified kill help you? Well It could help you become a more proficient soldier of good. Maybe you get increase health or accuracy (because in real life a trained soldier with restraint and discipline will be more efficient killer than a crazy lunatic) this could give you a message "you a becoming a very proficient survivor" or something.

Now how could the devs determine what kills are just or not? This would be actually quite easy on paper (not sure how that translate to the actually game) but here's my solution:

This system could be base on 2 factors how much gear and weapons a person has and also what body language that are using.

There many types of body language that depicts your intentions as a player at the moment they are purely aesthetic and seem to have little or no baring on the majority of player interaction. 9/10 times if you surrender and puts your hands up. Your either kos or handcuffed panted and killed by windex or execution. What if these actions effected your mental state.

For example: when a geared player is gun up they are tagged in the system as a major threat and killing them has a positive affect to you. If they are gun out but lowered it could have either no effect or a minor increase. When a player has their gun away they are a minor threat since they are in fact still armed. If a player has no weapon or a undrawn melee weapon they are no threat at all and would give you a very negative affect on you. If that same player pulls out his axe and runs at you then your kill just just and has no effect what so ever. Now lets say your a bandit and just want to loot someone you can force a surrender, handcuff them and steal their loot with no consciences, if then after you take their stuff you kill them then you get a very negative effect. This could work as well for the wave gesture, hands up and the finger (which could give you a just kill) this could help with players verbal interaction since they might get a few words in before the other player opens fire.

Now the current meta is kill on site or die with honour trying to be a good guy. But unless you have a very tactical squad this is hard to do for a lone wolf. This system could help with player interaction because their actions actually effect the state of their own character this coupled with gear being wrecked if shot will help players that do not wish to play mindless kill of sight.

Also to balance the game out you feel like going a little crazy and shooting some fresh Bambi's, sure you can but maybe a counter action has to balance that out like helping a few later on to gain back some sanity. This could be implicated with a trade system where you gift people items for mental or a "moral" reward.

Now from being a fan of zombie movies and shows I have learned there are 2 ways to survive. You have the kill or be killed mentality on your own or in a group or you try to saved the little humanity you have left. This way you can choose both paths. But usually in the movies and shows, the crazy killers are the first to go ;)

Thanks for reading. Happy surviving!

[RabbitZ 38]

Dude I gotta be honest, I didn't for life of me read any of that, but I know where you're going with it. I'm totally with this idea, all mental and stuff. They should also add something to knock off the edge too, you don't wanna stay messed in the head forever bro, like alcohol or something. Also they should make you see illusions when you're like crazy and stuff after killing a bunch of people, man that be weird...

[gray-z@hotmail.co.uk 84]

Inb4graveyard.........  :emptycan:

 

This is being discussed in this thread here -> http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163475-i-have-an-idea-for-helping-with-the-kos-problem-rocket-should-read/

 

Also a lot of what you consider 'Balance' is actually completely unbalanced and gives benefits for only one style of game play. This is open sandbox people so if you bought it you can play it however you want. The balancing factor is YOU!! All mental states etc are left with the player, not the character.

Edited January 14, 2014 by G24HAM

[Gank Moody 12]

Inb4graveyard.........  :emptycan:

 

This is being discussed in this thread here -> http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163475-i-have-an-idea-for-helping-with-the-kos-problem-rocket-should-read/

 

Also a lot of what you consider 'Balance' is actually completely unbalanced and gives benefits for only one style of game play. This is open sandbox people so if you bought it you can play it however you want. The balancing factor is YOU!! All mental states etc are left with the player, not the character.

I disagree and the other thread touches way to much on kos in which I think there is a time and place. If you read my post you would see that it is very just and encouraged in certain situations. Then if the balancing factor is you why do you have food in the game couldn't the state of hunger be left to the player not the character? If you choose your character not to eat he dies but if a player kills defenceless people he doesn't become mentally unstable? These characters can not survive without food but they can kill a defenceless people only armed with a flashlight and not bat an eye leash. You have to realize your playing the character you are not the character so how are you to decide weather killing is just or not the same as eating or fixing wounds. With your train of thinking why have eating in the game why can't the player just decide if the character is hungry or not just like he can decide weather or not he is mentally stable after killing someone. You feeling hungry is the same as feeling mentally drained, mad, or happy.

[Element47 2480]

the problem with any system of similar approach is determining the context of an action. what is the reason and motivation, what are the circumstances, that make this specific action either illegitimate or justified.

 

often, its impossible for a jury of smart people to decide, and thus it is completely beyond the scope of a software.

[Gank Moody 12]

the problem with any system of similar approach is determining the context of an action. what is the reason and motivation, what are the circumstances, that make this specific action either illegitimate or justified.

often, its impossible for a jury of smart people to decide, and thus it is completely beyond the scope of a software.

It doesn't have to be a complex system as explained in the original post. The game opens up justification on its own with its different player gestures. There are friendly gestures and aggressive gesture already in the game. If a person is coming at you gun up do you shoot? Yes but if he waves to you do you open fire? Well you shouldn't but in this game you do with no consequence. I wish I could just choose not to eat in this game like you can choose not to have mental stress when killing a defenceless person.

I find it funny people think if the apocalypse ever happened it would end up a bunch of people looting rural towns and army bases just to run to the nearest populated center to go kill everyone in sight. Lol sounds very believable.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Gank Moody

[gray-z@hotmail.co.uk 84]

I disagree and the other thread touches way to much on kos in which I think there is a time and place. If you read my post you would see that it is very just and encouraged in certain situations. Then if the balancing factor is you why do you have food in the game couldn't the state of hunger be left to the player not the character? If you choose your character not to eat he dies but if a player kills defenceless people he doesn't become mentally unstable? These characters can not survive without food but they can kill a defenceless people only armed with a flashlight and not bat an eye leash. You have to realize your playing the character you are not the character so how are you to decide weather killing is just or not the same as eating or fixing wounds. With your train of thinking why have eating in the game why can't the player just decide if the character is hungry or not just like he can decide weather or not he is mentally stable after killing someone. You feeling hungry is the same as feeling mentally drained, mad, or happy.

 

What you suggest is exactly the same as the other thread. As I said in there I agree that there are consequences mentally in real life but it is one sided and only benefits one style of game play forcing it upon the players and essentially taking everything the game is meant to be away. What you have suggested above is a thinly veiled suggestion to nerf KoS.

 

Also, on what planet is feeling hungry the same as feeling mentally drained, mad or happy? You don't decide if you're hungry or not, your body does as it does in game. The balance is that EVERYONE has to do it. The choice you have as a player is which style of game play you want to adopt and how YOU play it. Giving characters true to life mental problems because the player chose to play a specific way is just unworkable and aims to punish those who made the wrong decision according to your morals.

Edited January 14, 2014 by G24HAM

[wild_man 4442]

if you sit on hill with sniper gun doing overwatch for friends who doing mercy mission maybe rescue noob from bandit situation maybe you are 100% sane good person conscience clean ;)

 

maybe 90% of your kill with assault rifle in cherno is self defence thing and you are complete sane person with 98% kill rate :D

 

maybe guy who repeat always same mistakes and die every time never manage to win pvP is insane broken mind individual with serious mental problem :huh:

 

is why idea like the other 26,987 ideas exact the same is shit one :thumbsup:  ;)

[IcyBlade 48]

Forcing people to play in a way you deem fit is hardly a reasonable suggestion. I don't KOS or any of that stuff but knowing that myself and others are being forced to play in a certain way would be disappointing.

 

The reason hunger and thirst is simulated is and sanity is not is because we can all simulate our own sanity as we play in our own minds.

Essentially your suggesting that the players be partially AI, simplifying them possibly because you have been previously unable to survive.

Consider the possibility that it is you that need to change and not those that KOS I have had the same character for over a week on fully populated servers.

[Element47 2480]

I find it funny people think if the apocalypse ever happened it would end up a bunch of people looting rural towns and army bases just to run to the nearest populated center to go kill everyone in sight. Lol sounds very believable.

 

 

 

the large New York blackout in the seventies led to massive looting and rioting. only one day without power in one of the most civilized cities of the western world ended with over a thousand shops vandalized and thousands of arrests

 

 

in the aftermath of the hurricane Katrina, chaos prevailed, from home owners scared of looters taking up arms against every stranger entering their neighborhood, over police officers switching sides and joining looters, to outright "KoS" murder in the instance of the Danziger Bridge shootings

 

 

in the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake, many areas turned lawless, with scavengers and looters fighting to the death over scraps, home and business owners lynching looters, and police shooting to kill. among the stories that made western media was the teenage girl shot dead for saving a few colourful paintings from a wrecked store, and the little kid nearly stoned to death by looters, miraculously saved by a CNN reporter who was covering the unrest..

 

 

during catastrophic events, the most extreme aspects of human nature surface. from extreme heroism to extreme vile. i have no doubt that what we witness on the game servers is not too far away from reality. and thats probably the appeal of this game, which rocket - not without reason - refers to as social experiment

Edited January 14, 2014 by e47

[Gank Moody 12]

the large New York blackout in the seventies led to massive looting and rioting. only one day without power in one of the most civilized cities of the western world ended with over a thousand shops vandalized and thousands of arrests

 

 

in the aftermath of the hurricane Katrina, chaos prevailed, from home owners scared of looters taking up arms against every stranger entering their neighborhood, over police officers switching sides and joining looters, to outright "KoS" murder in the instance of the Danziger Bridge shootings

 

 

in the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake, many areas turned lawless, with scavengers and looters fighting to the death over scraps, home and business owners lynching looters, and police shooting to kill. among the stories that made western media was the teenage girl shot dead for saving a few colourful paintings from a wrecked store, and the little kid nearly stoned to death by looters, miraculously saved by a CNN reporter who was covering the unrest..

 

 

during catastrophic events, the most extreme aspects of human nature surface. from extreme heroism to extreme vile. i have no doubt that what we witness on the game servers is not too far away from reality. and thats probably the appeal of this game, which rocket - not without reason - refers to as social experiment

What you don't mention about these events is the military presence in both Katrina and Haiti. Also the millions of dollars worth of food/water/supplies that was donate by compassionate people in support of these events. Also please can you fill me in on how many military Installation were looted and how people where killed with military m4 assault rifle during these events as well. Also I highly doubt the people who committed crimes during these events went unpunished. In chaos there is still order.

As for forcing you to play Certain way you do what you want but just like not eating there is consequences to your actions in this game. You yourself know it is a video game there is no moral dilemma for a person hiding behind a keyboard since there is no consequence to your action. But if this was a simulator there would be a consequences to actions. You unload a m4 on unarmed people and laugh about it then the game should simulate the characters mental health not yours. We are not the character we are just controlling them and our actions cause effects to said character. I honestly don't think any of you actually read my whole thread. No where does it say kos or killing in general would cause immediate mental stress. It's states that kill innocent in any culture is a direct result of mental health issues and should be SIMULATED in the game.

[h4mm3rston3 11]

I don't think this is necessary and in my opinion I think it is going too far.

 

I don't think KOS is a problem but a realistic threat in a dangerous environment.

The risk of meeting wreckless players is what forces you to be cautious and creates the excitement when you meet other players.

The moral of the player and the situation he is put in is what should determine his actions, not the game.

 

I also think a psychology system would be difficult to implement and that KOS will reduce as the game developes further.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Search SA and mod forums for "sanity" and you will find 18 months worth of discussions on precisely this same topic, and endless explanations for why it is inappropriate.

 

It is incredibly commonly suggested, because it is a punishment that "makes sense" and therefore people think they can sneak it in under the radar. "Oh, I'm not trying to punish killers, I'm just trying to increase realism!" But, you're not fooling anyone. Peel away the realism argument, and you're left with a pretty cut-and-dry "punish killers, reward heroes" system, which you will find no support for among DayZ purists nor, last I checked, the developers.

 

One interesting fact all of these suggestions conveniently ignore is that zombies are human beings, too. If killing makes us go wibbly-wobbly in the knees, then we're all going to be shaking like leaves in the wind 15 minutes after spawning, because we're constantly gunning down humans in the streets. Mothers, fathers, children. You're breaking into their homes, stealing their soda and tuna, and then systematically murdering them in their back yards. Sure, they're sick, but are you really going to argue that "it's okay to murder sick people?"

 

But, that's beside the point. The important fact to keep in mind is that the team has a firm commitment to balance in-game acitivities naturally, by giving players choices; if you want players to spend less time murdering each other, find ways to give them other things to do with their time. Consequences for player actions should arise naturally from the player community. Don't like it when people behave a certain way? Start a clan, make that behavior against your clan rules, and gather like-minded people together who agree to follow your rules. Better yet, load up a bunch of guns and go track down people who refuse to behave that way and punish them yourselves. Don't want people mishandling beachsprouts? Start a Beach Patrol and make the coast safe again!

 

The developers are not going to ride in on their winged horses with their magic wands and make people behave. They're just going to pack the game full of mechanics, tools and resources and let players choose how to use their time. Their hope is that eventually players will spend slightly less time blasting each other in their faces, but that's not their goal and if that doesn't happen they're not going to panic and start implementing a bunch of wrist-slappy bullshit to make people fall in line.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

God dammit this trope again?

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MurderMakesYouCrazy

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndWhiteInsanity

[blackberrygoo 1416]

At first I agreed , but after playing the game for months I've seen that every decision YOU make puts you closer to death ... If you are low on loot go loot Cherno but you know someone is going to be lurking around .... Low on food ? Run into the field and see if you can kill that cow before someone snipes you ... It's all based on decision , although I do share the O.Ps opinion , cuz in the way tht this is a sandbox game it gives all the little angry kids a reason to shoot first and ask questions later , it's a shitty environment for a game especially if the game has barely any servers that are 24/7 daytime that aren't always full up . So I see where he's going with this and personally anyone who seems to be afraid of having to deal with negative reprocussions for KOS should feel guilty cuz this is a survival game , i realize in the movies people always shoot first and ask questions later but in real life woul you really be killing everyone you see if you wanted to repopulate the earth lol? But that being said I have to agree with the guy that said software won't be able to judge , because unfortunately it's true , even if someone waved to us and he received a positive action bonus for that he could immediately kill you to even himself back to neutral .... I think people just need to respect others and try to approach everyone as friendly but ALWAYS stay paranoid of them until you can really trust them .

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

The OP's suggestion would never work; It would be literally impossible to write code that would understand the context of any given scenario.

[morrow 19]

I disagree and the other thread touches way to much on kos in which I think there is a time and place. If you read my post you would see that it is very just and encouraged in certain situations. Then if the balancing factor is you why do you have food in the game couldn't the state of hunger be left to the player not the character? If you choose your character not to eat he dies but if a player kills defenceless people he doesn't become mentally unstable? These characters can not survive without food but they can kill a defenceless people only armed with a flashlight and not bat an eye leash. You have to realize your playing the character you are not the character so how are you to decide weather killing is just or not the same as eating or fixing wounds. With your train of thinking why have eating in the game why can't the player just decide if the character is hungry or not just like he can decide weather or not he is mentally stable after killing someone. You feeling hungry is the same as feeling mentally drained, mad, or happy.

Around 9/10 of your post is about KOS also, KOS isn't the problem, there is law law, there is nothing that can punish people (in-game) and there shouldn't be. How do you know someone will go crazy if they kill a lot of people? Have you seen The Pacific (based on real story(ies) a lot of soldiers kiled a lot of Japs, and did not go crazy, it depends on the person not everyone would trip the fuck out. Maybe if they went to court they would be deemed that.

[Capo 323]

another thread about mental state, lock plz. 

[XA3 17]

All the banditing comes from the abundance of loot.

Me, a person who never shoots first(i die alot because of this) trying to talk to people at least, caught myself on a weird thought recently. After extensive looting and gearing up, got bored to the point of imagening going to the coast hunting bambies.At that point I realised that its enough for today, and logged off.

What mentally unstable people do in this situation? Go on a killing spree, and in best case scenario, get gunned down buy some revenge squads.

Basically you dont need this system of mentality, because these bandits already feel hunted after they kos some frashspawns on the coast, eventualy realising that it`s not the way to go about.

Hopefully some of u crazys will rad this)

[Rzach 29]

Around 9/10 of your post is about KOS also, KOS isn't the problem, there is law law, there is nothing that can punish people (in-game) and there shouldn't be. How do you know someone will go crazy if they kill a lot of people? Have you seen The Pacific (based on real story(ies) a lot of soldiers kiled a lot of Japs, and did not go crazy, it depends on the person not everyone would trip the fuck out. Maybe if they went to court they would be deemed that.

 

No they did not go crazy. My grandfather served in the Pacific Theater during WWII. He was not crazy. He had nightmares decades later about the men he killed. His hands shook from the stress he experienced during the war. He got shot through the lung and survived and yet he was scarred for life. He would cry for the men he killed and for their families loss. He felt guilt that wouldn't go away. He turned to drinking to ease the pain and smoking cigarettes to help with his hands shaking. He lived a very full life and was loved by everyone around him. He was a good man and he helped raise me. Of all the people I have know he is the one I respect the most. It is because of the respect that I don't try and pretend like killing people has no consequence on a persons mentality. Those soldiers who fought in WWII paid a price few people can understand. Killing may not drive you mad or make you crazy but it does affect you. To say it doesn't is to disrespect all the veterans who have been through combat. 

 

Law is not the only reason people don't kill. Most adults come to realize that another persons life is just as valuable as their own. Most adults have empathy for others. 

[jasher11 67]

you  must be new here, every Tom, Dick and Harry has made a thread about sanity, mental state whatever you want to call it, even me a while ago, so i dont know if you did but use the search function for key words please

[Immersive 121]

Cool enough idea, but how in the hell is this any different from the bandit/hero system in the mod.

[Legalese03 5]

Leave the mental component of the game to the players. everyone gets hungry, thirsty, sick and injured but mental state varies and is unmeasurable that is what makes this game what it is and abundance of different personalities interacting. the implementation of a system that alters mental state in accordance with a players actions will only lead to a bunch of drones roaming the map and take away from the diversity of personalities and varied interactions.

[komadose 190]

it would be downright impossible to define wether you kill for a genuine survival instinct or self-defence, or just for fun because you are mentally unstable. situations vary so much in this game.

[AP_Norris 1017]

I think it is good that you realise some things are better on paper.

This may be one of them, but! We are in alpha stages and this is the stage to test!! Is it not? Could we change up some players by doing this? Would bandits change to give themselves more of an advantage but at the same time realise what they're doing is in fact very fun and heart warming?

I think another way to do this is take it a bit more on the social interaction thing.

If you're with friends you would never really go mad because all the people around you are doing the same, it would be the norm in your mind.

If you were alone I would think you would react differently, you wouldn't feel human if you ask me, everybody you see is afraid of you, you haven't spoken to a person without the intention of killing him in years.

To me though it would need to be tested in the alpha if ever implemented at all.

It will most likely cause 90% of the community to flip when they release the only fun they'd been having was killing people.

Who knows I hate the current state of the community.

Maybe we should have an underlying bandit system, never pops up just sits there feeding on the players that choose to play unsociably and shot everybody, while bandits remain relatively normal others will get boosts that will naturally come with their good survival skills they no longer reek of fear being very smelly for the zombies.

Their practice in trigger discipline has made them extra efficient on the draw.

-50% gun raise and equip time??

Lots of things could be done things on paper have to be tested though.