To Rocket & the “Hardcore” crowd

[RJ Macready 3]

Rocket, you’ve done a sterling job on creating an original product in this oversaturated world of generic first person shooters. Myself and my mates are having a blast meeting up and exploring the zombie wasteland striving to survive with nothing but bad breath & a spork between us, removal of the starter gun was a bit hmmmm at the start but it’s just forced a different play style on us as we try to get each of us armed (although I would prefer the starter gun personally) but above all were having fun and enjoying the game.

To the “hardcore” crowd, tone it down a bit please, we all know this is a niche game meant to be hard, unforgiving and brutal to play but I think this game can have all those qualities that we all want without this relentless desire to make the game a masochistic experience. Night time is broken plain and simple, to think otherwise is plain stupid, breaking legs from 2ft isn’t hardcore, it’s unrealistic and quite frankly annoying as fuck alongwith the other annoying problems that are popping up and that’s the problem I can see with this great “GAME” the vocal minority who want some sort of digital flagellation experience seem to be steering this mod away from the greatness it can be to something only a small select few with endless free time on their hands would want to play.

Yes we all want it to be hard and we don’t want shit handed to us on a plate but you all seem to forget one thing.. this is a game, its meant to be enjoyable, playable and something we want to keep logging into because of mistakes we made not because of some insanely stupid difficulty level ramped up in the name of “realism”. Anyways just wanted to get that off my chest as the more I read these forums the more it seems like there are 2 camps, those that have extreme expectations of what this should be and those that want to you know enjoy it

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

[SupWithThat 2]

Zed speaks the truth.

[maddogx 10]

Zed speaks the truth.

Yup. I'm seeing a pattern there...

[fosty99 160]

Helps weed out the players that nobody likes.

[fml 29]

If your post isnt about making dayz a pure FPS with zombies on the side, and eliminating all possible co-operation then you are playing the wrong game, according to everyone here except rocket.

[Captain Kirk (DayZ) 0]

A hardcore crowd can be very good sometimes since you tend to get a more stable playerbase that dont stop playing unless you really fuck up (Star wars galaxies).

But I do however dislike the conservative nature of the hardcore crowd and their way to hate on any original ideas. The reason for this I believe is that the hardcore crowd always figure out a way to exploit intended mechanics in games and once change is on the way they lose their edge.

DayZ is a very unique idea. So naturally the Casual gamers want to change things that make the game less tidious and difficult and the hardcore gamers hate their ideas.

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on. And all too many games have died because it turned into a casual easy-mode that gets boring after half an hour.

[xls.akm@gmail.com 0]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

Couldn't agree more.

[daish 11]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

Zed speaks dribble

[TheSexyGoat 5]

I agree with some of your points. After a few days alive, I finally died and experienced how it is to start the game without a gun, well, mainly at night. It's pretty much UNPLAYBLE, since you can't see shit, you have no flares, you have a flashlight - which is useless since you can't point it at where you wanna see whilst running. Although it did make the game more realistic, that's what I liked. Well, it's up to the dev team wether they're gonna bring it back or not, I have my stock of equipment so I should be good :P

[jatobi (DayZ) 12]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

Just because somebody just registered, does not mean they have not been around longer or read more posts than yourself.

People lurk forums all the time without ever posting or creating an account.

I'm just sayin...

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

Yes, it's just a game... but it should also strive to be a realistic and immersive zombie survival simulation.

I hate the idea of it becoming more gamey or arcadey to appease a broader audience.

I also hate the idea of it turning into one big open-world PvP deathmatch experience with loot. That shouldn't be what DayZ is about. It should be about surviving in a world overrun by zombies. Yes, PvP encounters come into that... and the possibility of survivors killing each other really adds tension to the game; but not to the extent that everyone is just running around looking to kill other players.

[daish 11]

Yes' date=' it's just a game... but it should also strive to be a realistic and immersive zombie survival simulation.

I hate the idea of it becoming more gamey or arcadey to appease a broader audience.

I also hate the idea of it turning into one big open-world PvP deathmatch experience with loot. That shouldn't be what DayZ is about. It should be about surviving in a world overrun by zombies. Yes, PvP encounters come into that... and the possibility of survivors killing each other really adds tension to the game; but not to the extent that everyone is just running around looking to kill other players.

[/quote']

people who keep asking a game like this to be realistic are morons

thats like saying reality tv is more enjoyable then movies no its not

[JimiEZ (DayZ) 0]

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on.

Complete bullshit. Name one game as an example of this.

In fact there's already quite a few games that stand as examples that you absolutely *don't* have to "tone down" (ie. casualize / dumbify) and appease the casual masses in order to have a relatively successful game or a mod. Games like Dwarf Fortress and many other roguelikes are about as HC as you can get within games barring heavy duty flight sims etc' date=' have done absolutely nothing towards making the games more casual or accessible over their development. In fact many of them have just become more complex, cruel and "hardcore" over the years and what has the end result been? A faithful cult following, that's what.

Sure, if you want to go crazy big and MTV large you have to suck the proverbial casual dick, but luckily it seems rocket doesn't have the slightest intention of doing so, at least with the mod. This is a [i']good thing too, since there's already plenty enough games designed with the lowest common denominator in mind.

[Virfortis 111]

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on.

Complete bullshit. Name one game as an example of this.

Aces High, World War 2 Online, GunZ: The Duel, Soldier Front, Navy Field.

Need I go on? All of them are pretty much dead to the public eye because of elitist pricks too scared of losing their "hardcore" artificial advantage that they run every budding player off in a torrential downpour of shitposting. If you think you're so "hardcore" then go join the military, plain and simple. Games are meant to be enjoyed, and DayZ is not enjoyable unless you've an NVG wielding bandit that camps on the radio tower near Cherno and throws flares in town to pick people off. There's no interaction, no talking, and a complete disregard for helping along any playstyle other than mass deathmatching. Zombies get harder and all that happens is the survivors can't shoot back without attracting a horde on them. If this is DayZ, then rocket needs to come out and say so, maybe then we can let the hype die down and get back to game development, but if he wants to make more than a persistent world Free For All ArmA2 game, he's going to have to make some serious statements.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

people who keep asking a game like this to be realistic are morons

thats like saying reality tv is more enjoyable then movies no its not

What?

:-/

So I guess Bohemia Interactive are morons for making Arma 2 in the first place then, because as far as FPS games go, that's fairly realistic.

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

Post constructive posts (or polite deconstructive ones, whichever).

"Me-too" posts are annoying and unnecessary.

[zombieballs 0]

people who keep asking a game like this to be realistic are morons

thats like saying reality tv is more enjoyable then movies no its not

he makes a good point if you arent for making this game a superhardcore fps then you are against it and should just shut up. really good anology about reality tv not more enjoyable then moovy

[(gp)echo 0]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

Although I am "new" to theses Day Z forums as well, I have been a dedicated Arma player for ages. I have to agree with the spirit of your post, if not most of your talking points.

Arma2 is a very special game. Protecting its sandbox simulator roots is very important to me. I don't hold anything against the CODs and BF3s of the world, but there's a reason I can't enjoy them: realism. The players who have been loyal to BIS and the Arma franchise do so to support a fantastic MILSIM that has a relatively niche market.

Although I am sympathetic and, ironically, grateful to the new players joining the Arma community, I can't support anything that dilutes the "hardcore" Arma experience. There are plenty of other flashy, superficial FPS and zombie shooters out there; preserving the qualities that make Arma realistic and unique should be a sacred priority.

I hope our new friends stay and enjoy the game; just don't trash the place we've worked so hard to build.

[Captain Kirk (DayZ) 0]

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on.

Complete bullshit. Name one game as an example of this.

In fact there's already quite a few games that stand as examples that you absolutely *don't* have to "tone down" (ie. casualize / dumbify) and appease the casual masses. Games like Dwarf Fortress and many other roguelikes are about as HC as you can get within games' date=' barring heavy duty flight sims etc, have done absolutely nothing towards making the games more casual or accessible. In fact many of them have just become more complex, cruel and "hardcore" over the years and what has the end result been? A faithful cult following, that's what.

Sure, if you want to go crazy big and MTV large you have to suck the proverbial casual dick, but for all intents and purposes, rocket doesn't have the slightest intention of doing so, at least with the mod. This is a [i']good thing too, since there's already plenty enough games designed with the lowest common denominator in mind.

Not saying any game should be dumbed down but the Hardcore crowd sometimes seem to be a bit too hatefull agains new thinking.

Out of the top of my head is Crpg. Even though its not 'dead' only the really hardcore people still play it and they QQ like never before.

Darkfall suffered the same fate since the hardcore FPS gamers wanted quakefall and it didnt help that Aventurine have no clue how to make a sandbox mmo.

Project reality is has been slowly dying for some time now because the hardcore crowds (who ofc have all the servers) refuse to put certain maps in rotation and play the new mods so people get bored of the same maps day in and day out.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer but unlike some I dont act like a butthurt douchebag on the forums and try to run a personal crusade agains mainstream gaming.

I try to put some faith in the dev team instead of spreading hatefull posts making fun of people that dont waste 6-20h a day on stupid videogames unlike myself.

[daish 11]

people who keep asking a game like this to be realistic are morons

thats like saying reality tv is more enjoyable then movies no its not

What?

:-/

So I guess Bohemia Interactive are morons for making Arma 2 in the first place then' date=' because as far as FPS games go, that's fairly realistic.

[/quote']

thats like comparing a flight simulator to flying in a console game

ARMA 2 is a training/simulator game

so far people have not been buying DayZ with ARMA 2 for a simulator they have been buying it for something to do in their spare time something to enjoy and have fun playing

not going "DERRPR IM A FREAKING MORON AND I THINK ZOMBIES WILL ATTACK 1 DAY THIS GAME WILL GIVE ME REAL TRAINING IN WHAT TO DO WHEN A ZOMBIE ATTACKS DEERERP THE GAME NEEDS TO BE AS REAL AS POSSIBLE SO I GET THE BEST POSSIBLE TRAINING DEERRRR"

[zombieballs 0]

thats like comparing a flight simulator to flying in a console game

ARMA 2 is a training/simulator game

so far people have not been buying DayZ with ARMA 2 for a simulator they have been buying it for something to do in their spare time something to enjoy and have fun playing

not going "DERRPR IM A FREAKING MORON AND I THINK ZOMBIES WILL ATTACK 1 DAY THIS GAME WILL GIVE ME REAL TRAINING IN WHAT TO DO WHEN A ZOMBIE ATTACKS DEERERP THE GAME NEEDS TO BE AS REAL AS POSSIBLE SO I GET THE BEST POSSIBLE TRAINING DEERRRR"

I agree! they need to lighten up and play how its meant to be played. FPS shoot on sight duh

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

thats like comparing a flight simulator to flying in a console game

ARMA 2 is a training/simulator game

so far people have not been buying DayZ with ARMA 2 for a simulator they have been buying it for something to do in their spare time something to enjoy and have fun playing

not going "DERRPR IM A FREAKING MORON AND I THINK ZOMBIES WILL ATTACK 1 DAY THIS GAME WILL GIVE ME REAL TRAINING IN WHAT TO DO WHEN A ZOMBIE ATTACKS DEERERP THE GAME NEEDS TO BE AS REAL AS POSSIBLE SO I GET THE BEST POSSIBLE TRAINING DEERRRR"

I don't play Arma 2 because I want army training. I play it because I want an immersive and fairly hardcore FPS experience. :-/ I still enjoy more casual arcade-style FPS games as well... but for a different reason.

DayZ is a zombie survival simulation.

That doesn't mean it's designed to train people in case a zombie apocalypse happens, or anything stupid like that. :rolleyes: It just means that it's goal is to immerse the player as much as possible and really put them into the scenario of a zombie apocalypse.

If I want something less serious, I'll go play an arcadey zombie game that's about horde killing.

[renpab80@gmail.com 41]

Yes we all want it to be hard and we don’t want shit handed to us on a plate but you all seem to forget one thing.. this is a game' date=' its meant to be enjoyable, playable and something we want to keep logging into because of mistakes we made not because of some insanely stupid difficulty level ramped up in the name of “realism”.

[/quote']

well, for me its enjoyable, playable and i want to keep loggin in for the last 2 months...no mainstream bullshit title has accomplished this for me. To each his own, but the "hardcore" crowd is so overprotective about this mod, because there is nothing like it out there in gaming...this is why those masses of players were/are flooding in. I agree that there are issues, but every step towards making it an "easier" experience should be completely ignored. Hopefully Rocket holds his course...

[JimiEZ (DayZ) 0]

Aces High' date=' World War 2 Online, GunZ: The Duel, Soldier Front, Navy Field.

Need I go on? All of them are pretty much dead to the public eye because of elitist pricks too scared of losing their "hardcore" artificial advantage that they run every budding player off in a torrential downpour of shitposting.[/quote']

You don't think them being mostly old and pretty shitty games to begin with, has nothing to do with the fact no one plays them anymore?

If you think you're so "hardcore" then go join the military, plain and simple.

Been there, done that.

Games are meant to be enjoyed, and DayZ is not enjoyable unless you've an NVG wielding bandit that camps on the radio tower near Cherno and throws flares in town to pick people off.

Funny, I've never even seen a NVG in DayZ yet, still have managed to have fucktons of fun. Funny that. Then again, I also play Dwarf Fortress and Crusader Kings 2 so I understand that losing = fun.

There's no interaction, no talking, and a complete disregard for helping along any playstyle other than mass deathmatching.

For you maybe. I've had plenty of co-operation with other players.

Zombies get harder

Unintentional side-effect of creating the new awareness system for them. Which you'd know if you had paid attention to any one of the seven billion times rocket stated that their current behaviour is unintentional.

If this is DayZ, then rocket needs to come out and say so, maybe then we can let the hype die down and get back to game development, but if he wants to make more than a persistent world Free For All ArmA2 game, he's going to have to make some serious statements.

I think rocket's vision for DayZ has been plenty clear since the beginning. Hard, cruel survival. Realistic where it serves as interesting fodder for survival interaction, but realism on its own really isn't the point. He wants to create a game that goes off the beaten path and deviates from the current generation of "press A to be Awesome!" - games and isn't afraid to challenge its players. I like that vision. If you don't, you really should play something else, because otherwise you're just going to have a bad time.

Also, the mandatory: alpha is alpha is alpha. kthxbye.