Possible solution to KOS, hear me out

[zaknefain123 41]

No solution to KOS

 

Only Zuul.

[Alex988 9]

hahah no, for every kos thread im going to kill a bambi

[Erica 1]

Still figuring this game out but it sure would be nice to find a person who does not instantly attack me for seemingly no reason (wants my shiny shoes?). I'm used to open PvP and losing everything when you die, that is what Ultima Online is like which I played for a long time. But this is fun when you have just a chance of being attacked. Here it seems like a guarantee, and I don't think is realistic. In a zombie apocalypse do you think almost everyone will KOS you, or maybe just a very small (under 5%) would? You should be more scared of a zombie than a person, not the other way around.

 

If someone can just move to another server, there is no community penalty for them acting this way as there would be on a typical MMORPG game. Are there any plans to move the game in a more of a massive server direction (hundreds to thousands of players on one)? Or is the plan to always be setup more the FPS style as it is now?

[AP_Norris 1017]

hahah no, for every kos thread im going to kill a bambi

You are evil.

Edited January 1, 2014 by AP_Norris

[jan3sobieski 32]

Like I said in my last post, I'm done arguing. I'll just adapt to everyone's gameplay and kill (or attempt to) everyone on sight. Apparently that's the only option anymore. See you in the game.

 

[edit] Actually, I'll elaborate.

 

Seems to me that only the Hardcore/Elite/original DayZ Mod folks want to leave the game the way it is. That's fine. Have it your way. If you think the game will live on the way it is now, I wish you the best. 

 

I will help you do that, I will KoS everyone I meet just as it has been done to me. You see no problem there, so I won't either. I won't immerse myself in the game, in the experience, in the survival factor or in any other factor this game has to offer except for PVP. I'll just do what you think is perfectly balanced and real. Just kill everybody. If I ever meet a newbie along the way and by some chance I don't kill them right away, I'll make sure I do so as soon as I can. 

 

Everyone who's been supportive of this thread, or parts of it (I agree Survivors should be able to loot as well, first ideas are not always the best) I wish you good luck and I urge you to KoS as well, especially the new players. Let's make them feel welcome. Stop being a hero. Being a hero requires to have a conscience or at least an urge to help someone else. This is not a game for us if we can't take it, as many of the Hardcore/Elite players have said. Let's just continue the mayhem, no, let's make it bigger!

 

If anyone is still interested in some coop game, PM me. We can go on a rampage together. No role-playing, no handcuffing, no banditing (I don't think that's a word). Just pure f'ing killing everything that moves, maybe we can get lucky and shoot some birds too while we're at it. But let's make sure we shoot at everyone. Especially the casuals and newbies. Let's make this game the BEST it can be!!!

Edited January 2, 2014 by jan3sobieski

[MystoganXIX 78]

Still figuring this game out but it sure would be nice to find a person who does not instantly attack me for seemingly no reason (wants my shiny shoes?). I'm used to open PvP and losing everything when you die, that is what Ultima Online is like which I played for a long time. But this is fun when you have just a chance of being attacked. Here it seems like a guarantee, and I don't think is realistic. In a zombie apocalypse do you think almost everyone will KOS you, or maybe just a very small (under 5%) would? You should be more scared of a zombie than a person, not the other way around.

 

If someone can just move to another server, there is no community penalty for them acting this way as there would be on a typical MMORPG game. Are there any plans to move the game in a more of a massive server direction (hundreds to thousands of players on one)? Or is the plan to always be setup more the FPS style as it is now?

In a zombie apocalypse, I doubt people would trust anyone that they hadn't known prior to the apocalypse and it would likely end up in a similar manner of what happens in DayZ.  Sure in the real world, there would be a lot less "bandits" and more people just trying to survive, but I'm sure when a guy needs to feed himself and his girlfriend or a father needs to feed his children in the middle of anarchy, you're life is equal that that of an ant's in their eyes.

Edited January 2, 2014 by MystoganXIX

[cywehner1234 582]

lolno.

[Ynneead 20]

Like I said in my last post, I'm done arguing. I'll just adapt to everyone's gameplay and kill (or attempt to) everyone on sight. Apparently that's the only option anymore. See you in the game.

 

[edit] Actually, I'll elaborate.

 

Seems to me that only the Hardcore/Elite/original DayZ Mod folks want to leave the game the way it is. That's fine. Have it your way. If you think the game will live on the way it is now, I wish you the best. 

 

I will help you do that, I will KoS everyone I meet just as it has been done to me. You see no problem there, so I won't either. I won't immerse myself in the game, in the experience, in the survival factor or in any other factor this game has to offer except for PVP. I'll just do what you think is perfectly balanced and real. Just kill everybody. If I ever meet a newbie along the way and by some chance I don't kill them right away, I'll make sure I do so as soon as I can. 

 

Everyone who's been supportive of this thread, or parts of it (I agree Survivors should be able to loot as well, first ideas are not always the best) I wish you good luck and I urge you to KoS as well, especially the new players. Let's make them feel welcome. Stop being a hero. Being a hero requires to have a conscience or at least an urge to help someone else. This is not a game for us if we can't take it, as many of the Hardcore/Elite players have said. Let's just continue the mayhem, no, let's make it bigger!

 

If anyone is still interested in some coop game, PM me. We can go on a rampage together. No role-playing, no handcuffing, no banditing (I don't think that's a word). Just pure f'ing killing everything that moves, maybe we can get lucky and shoot some birds too while we're at it. But let's make sure we shoot at everyone. Especially the casuals and newbies. Let's make this game the BEST it can be!!!

sure just remember its a lot easier to shoot someone that i observed through my scope kill another especially if its a new spawn :P

Edited January 2, 2014 by Ynneead

[Ynneead 20]

Still figuring this game out but it sure would be nice to find a person who does not instantly attack me for seemingly no reason (wants my shiny shoes?). I'm used to open PvP and losing everything when you die, that is what Ultima Online is like which I played for a long time. But this is fun when you have just a chance of being attacked. Here it seems like a guarantee, and I don't think is realistic. In a zombie apocalypse do you think almost everyone will KOS you, or maybe just a very small (under 5%) would? You should be more scared of a zombie than a person, not the other way around.

 

If someone can just move to another server, there is no community penalty for them acting this way as there would be on a typical MMORPG game. Are there any plans to move the game in a more of a massive server direction (hundreds to thousands of players on one)? Or is the plan to always be setup more the FPS style as it is now?

i doubt they are going for the mmorpg tittle........ I personally don't support server hopping but right now to be fed it's necessary as items don't respawn. Not sure if they plan on upping the server limit past 40 but i defenately dont wanna see 100,000 people a single instance of chernarus. I don't think there's enough space/food to support that many.

 

There's 2 problems right now, mostly because it is an alpha. There isn't enough zombies/harsh environment as zombies don't respawn its perfectly normal right now to walk through a town completely devoid of anything or anyone. This leads to people getting bored as once you get fully kitted there isn't much to do. Alpha

 

The other problem in my opinion is the fact that in dayz mod the speaking range was about 50m~ and in the stand alone the speaking range is about 8m by default. i have my sfx at 15% and my voip volume to 100% and i can still only hear about 15m at most. Leading to them seeing you way before a person can hear you so they have to decide weather to let you get close enough to axe you or shoot.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Ynneead

[Wolfguarde 108]

hahah no, for every kos thread im going to kill a bambi

 

Just one?

 

Still figuring this game out but it sure would be nice to find a person who does not instantly attack me for seemingly no reason (wants my shiny shoes?). I'm used to open PvP and losing everything when you die, that is what Ultima Online is like which I played for a long time. But this is fun when you have just a chance of being attacked. Here it seems like a guarantee, and I don't think is realistic. In a zombie apocalypse do you think almost everyone will KOS you, or maybe just a very small (under 5%) would? You should be more scared of a zombie than a person, not the other way around.

 

If someone can just move to another server, there is no community penalty for them acting this way as there would be on a typical MMORPG game. Are there any plans to move the game in a more of a massive server direction (hundreds to thousands of players on one)? Or is the plan to always be setup more the FPS style as it is now?

 

I agree that a person should be more afraid of zombies than other people - but I think you're wrong about the number of people who would fire on sight. 

If we're looking at it realistically, any opportunist with more than a moderate advantage would do it. I would put that number at at least 30% of the total remaining survivors. Anyone needing to feed/support multiple people would have a good chance of doing it. Another 10%. Anyone terrible at looting who has no (perceivable) better options for surviving. 10%. Sadists, murderers, people trying to hide stash locations. 20%.

Of the remaining 30%, I would say that at least 10% would rob you first, with an even on/off chance of shooting you depending on personal philosophy. 15% of the rest would run or hide, preferring not to engage due to the risk of dying or not having a good enough advantage to make the risk worth it. The very, very small minority would go out of their way to help you, and even then the quality of that help would probably not be up to ideal standards given the general atmosphere of any post-apocalyptic situation.

Basically, I'm saying that rather than a 5% KoS rate, I think it's more likely you'd find 5% of the total remaining populace would actually be willing to engage you in a friendly manner.

 

Seems to me that only the Hardcore/Elite/original DayZ Mod folks want to leave the game the way it is. That's fine. Have it your way. If you think the game will live on the way it is now, I wish you the best. 

 

I'm not trying to pick on you here, but look at it this way: the people you're describing are the ones who have actually spent a fair bit of time playing the game, engaged with the mechanics, and learned how the game works. Nearly everyone starts out like you, looking for people who are willing to cooperate, and learns pretty quickly that it's naive at best to expect people to play as friendlies. We're not arguing with you because we think you're an idiot, or any such. Unless I'm missing the mark completely, you're pretty new to the game and therefore haven't really been broken into it yet. We're simply telling you how it is.

I've posted this in a couple of other threads already, but here's how I go about finding friendlies when I start on a new server. I spend a dozen or so lives dying, in which I attach no value to my gear sets and make an effort to get to know the map if I don't already, and get to know the people playing on it. Usually, you'll find that anyone who is going to shoot you for your inventory will do so regardless of how much you have in it, and so won't play at being friendly beyond whatever point it is that they're safely able to kill you. It shouldn't take too long to find someone with half a brain who's actually willing to team with you. When you do, spend a few hours playing with them, get yourselves geared up, and if they haven't killed you by the end of the day, ask them for steam/TS/Skype details, or whatever platform you use to communicate, and keep in contact with them. Spending a day or so recruiting allies at the expense of a few lives will go a long way toward making your game experience smoother.

 

Of course, there's the occasional douche who will play at being friendly for a while for shits and giggles, then turn on you when they get tired of it, but in my experience they're a significant minority.

[Erica 1]

People tend to come together when there is a common enemy. I still don't think 5% is very far off from people who would KOS you. If anything it would be lower. Now the percent who will kill you after talking to you, steal from you, enslave you, or possibly kill you later/stab you in the back will be much higher. But there is no interaction here. Sprint at the person and axe their face. Or ask if you are friendly, let you put the weapon away, then axe your face.

 

One thing that would help a lot is adding a ton of crafting, and let people only be good at one (maybe random) type. It would force some interaction, and bartering if you had to rely on other people for stuff. Allowing everyone to craft everything will just encourage people to kill you for more raw materials for their crafting. Could have wood working, metal working, tailor, tinker, mechanic, doctor, farmer, etc. Everyone will love a mechanic when you can have vehicles :P Allow people to build structures, or onto/additions to structures. Lock doors, let doors be broken down. Find/fix/build generators...run wire, have spotlights. Bandits can cut the wire to shut off the light. Make night time much more realistic, I can't see ANYTHING. Even in LA with no stars you can still see at night. Would be fun to be able to build a fort of sorts.

 

Respawning zombies would be fun, and maybe sometimes hordes will run in again giving an advantage to those who make friends instead of killing everyone... right now zombies are no threat. The only time they even hit me is due to lag, and they die in one swing. The game should encourage teamwork/co-op play with the option to do fine as a lone wolf bartering when you find a group of people. Or even make a team of bandits.

 

I know the game is in Alpha but it is already neat and just hope it keeps going in a positive direction. A game that takes this long to get gear and at the same time focuses on just KOS gameplay will flat-line in population. Go ask the Ultima Online Second Age server why they can't get any new players... they will tell you because most of the players (vets) just KOS, making the game a horrible experience. I've been there on and off for years and it is hurting the game more than anything. Risk is what makes a game exciting. On average the person not attacking you, but there is still that chance they might. The extremely high KOS rate takes that adrenaline rush away.

[Ynneead 20]

People tend to come together when there is a common enemy. I still don't think 5% is very far off from people who would KOS you. If anything it would be lower. Now the percent who will kill you after talking to you, steal from you, enslave you, or possibly kill you later/stab you in the back will be much higher. But there is no interaction here. Sprint at the person and axe their face. Or ask if you are friendly, let you put the weapon away, then axe your face.

 

 Problem is there is no common enemy zombies are no threat and they don't respawn so server usually don't have any

 

 

One thing that would help a lot is adding a ton of crafting, and let people only be good at one (maybe random) type. It would force some interaction, and bartering if you had to rely on other people for stuff. Allowing everyone to craft everything will just encourage people to kill you for more raw materials for their crafting. Could have wood working, metal working, tailor, tinker, mechanic, doctor, farmer, etc. Everyone will love a mechanic when you can have vehicles :P Allow people to build structures, or onto/additions to structures. Lock doors, let doors be broken down. Find/fix/build generators...run wire, have spotlights. Bandits can cut the wire to shut off the light. Make night time much more realistic, I can't see ANYTHING. Even in LA with no stars you can still see at night. Would be fun to be able to build a fort of sorts.

I'm not positive but i do believe they are going to implement crafting/base building in the game. It is alpha after all so this is pretty much the bare bones and basic mechanics of the game. I'm not sure if they will add crafting classes.

 

you should check out dayz epoch. If you want to build any sort of base you will need multiple people as everything is weight based(so one person cannot carry everything/will have to make multiple trips to town) and one person alone would take hours to make a wooden box without a roof much less fortify it.

 

Vehicles are already planned remember this is alpha! Vehicles where also in the mod.

 

night time is pretty sucky.... can't see anything if it is cloudy at night

 

 

Respawning zombies would be fun, and maybe sometimes hordes will run in again giving an advantage to those who make friends instead of killing everyone... right now zombies are no threat. The only time they even hit me is due to lag, and they die in one swing. The game should encourage teamwork/co-op play with the option to do fine as a lone wolf bartering when you find a group of people. Or even make a team of bandits.

 

Zombies and loot are planned to be respawned(alpha).

 

I can't say where but i'm pretty sure i saw rocket saying he wants to add zombie hordes that wonder cities/forests i think it was in one of his videos.

 

I know the game is in Alpha but it is already neat and just hope it keeps going in a positive direction. A game that takes this long to get gear and at the same time focuses on just KOS gameplay will flat-line in population. Go ask the Ultima Online Second Age server why they can't get any new players... they will tell you because most of the players (vets) just KOS, making the game a horrible experience. I've been there on and off for years and it is hurting the game more than anything. Risk is what makes a game exciting. On average the person not attacking you, but there is still that chance they might. The extremely high KOS rate takes that adrenaline rush away.

People tend to KoS because there really isn't much to do in the alpha. Think about it: ya I'm well fed got good gear got decent ammo a weapon i can A.help people(this seems like it will be the obvious choice but bare with me). or B. kill everything that gets near me.... I feel most people start with A and eventually take a few axes to the face which will turn them into a B. All that gear you took so long to get gone with one axe swing to the face and the killer gets fully equipped in less than 5 seconds

 

You usually will not find friendlies at all. I'm pretty friendly and willing to help out but you will never see me approach someone as the voice distance in the SA is only about 8 meters(really annoying) compared to the mod which was like 50m~. Leading me to just hide and observe people until they move on.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Ynneead

[Alestorm 0]

Why are you taking it to the extreme? "ask Rocket to get rid of the zombies" That's not even a fair comparison. The game is perfectly fine in all other aspects in my opinion. We could use more weapons, hunting, more zombies, fishing maybe? ;)

 

 

 

Sir, go and play minecra** or something like that :S ...

Edited January 2, 2014 by Alestorm

[DemonGroover 8836]

hahah no, for every kos thread im going to kill a bambi

 

For every useage of the word Bambi i'm going to kill a YouTuber.

[ThatSwoleGuy 22]

The only reason I'm even giving this post a reply is because I so vehemently disagree with the arguments here.

 

KOS exists about as much as the players let it, the only way to rid of it would be to suck the fun/difficulty out of the game.

 

I have heard Rocket has said regardless that he plans to add psychological affects to random killing, but death or any of the things mentioned in the OP? Please no.

 

I'm hardly even okay with the psychological negatives.

[sidu 62]

[AndehX 7]

KoS does not need "fixing" it is an exciting and core part of the game, and has been since the mod.  It does not need looking at, at all.  /thread

[Wolfguarde 108]

People tend to come together when there is a common enemy. I still don't think 5% is very far off from people who would KOS you. If anything it would be lower. Now the percent who will kill you after talking to you, steal from you, enslave you, or possibly kill you later/stab you in the back will be much higher. But there is no interaction here. Sprint at the person and axe their face. Or ask if you are friendly, let you put the weapon away, then axe your face.

 

One thing that would help a lot is adding a ton of crafting, and let people only be good at one (maybe random) type. It would force some interaction, and bartering if you had to rely on other people for stuff. Allowing everyone to craft everything will just encourage people to kill you for more raw materials for their crafting. Could have wood working, metal working, tailor, tinker, mechanic, doctor, farmer, etc. Everyone will love a mechanic when you can have vehicles :P Allow people to build structures, or onto/additions to structures. Lock doors, let doors be broken down. Find/fix/build generators...run wire, have spotlights. Bandits can cut the wire to shut off the light. Make night time much more realistic, I can't see ANYTHING. Even in LA with no stars you can still see at night. Would be fun to be able to build a fort of sorts.

 

Respawning zombies would be fun, and maybe sometimes hordes will run in again giving an advantage to those who make friends instead of killing everyone... right now zombies are no threat. The only time they even hit me is due to lag, and they die in one swing. The game should encourage teamwork/co-op play with the option to do fine as a lone wolf bartering when you find a group of people. Or even make a team of bandits.

 

I know the game is in Alpha but it is already neat and just hope it keeps going in a positive direction. A game that takes this long to get gear and at the same time focuses on just KOS gameplay will flat-line in population. Go ask the Ultima Online Second Age server why they can't get any new players... they will tell you because most of the players (vets) just KOS, making the game a horrible experience. I've been there on and off for years and it is hurting the game more than anything. Risk is what makes a game exciting. On average the person not attacking you, but there is still that chance they might. The extremely high KOS rate takes that adrenaline rush away.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending in saying this, but unless you're speaking from experience, I think you're wrong on the percentages. I haven't played on many servers, but the ones I stuck with I stuck with for a few months each. Very few people are willing to risk their gear on the off chance someone is friendly. I learned the hard way, like a lot of the people complaining about killing on sight here at the moment.

That being said - being a good sport, and being friendly, goes a long way in making friends on a server. I mean that in the social sense. I see a lot of people getting defensive or angry when someone kills them. It's understandable to be annoyed, but too many of us take the game far too seriously. I think a lot of the issues with this revolve around player mentality rather than game mechanics or lack thereof.

Regarding crafting... I've always liked the idea, and I'm pretty sure it will make it into the game - possibly in the form you're suggesting. I haven't seen any dev-side conversations regarding this, but there's a lot of player speculation about it and crafting has been confirmed as a feature.

I don't like the idea of enforced roles - But I do like the idea of only being able to carry a small number of tools - enough for one full kit, and maybe enough to fulfill a number of functions in a second category, or one function in two or three other categories. Someone suggested it in another thread. In my opinion, it's the best idea for encouraging group play thus far. A person can switch between roles easily enough if they can find and stock up on the appropriate tools, but everything is faster and smoother if you have a group with full toolkits instead.

I would love to see lockable/breakable doors and barricades. I know window barricades are coming in, and I think someone mentioned being able to shove furniture and such in front of doors...

One thing that really bugs me about night-time is the workarounds that allow you to see in the dark. I remember someone mentioning the devs wanted to get rid of this if possible, but it's either been given up as a lost cause or the appropriate settings have yet to be adjusted to prevent it, because it's still doable >.> I'd love for everyone to be on the same ground with night activity... generators are a good idea, though I can't see many people putting the effort in - or going to bases at night, when they can't do proper sweeps of the surrounds to make sure they're not going to be ambushed opening their doors, for that matter... in my experience, anything that highlights a base location is usually avoided like the plague :P

 

For every useage of the word Bambi i'm going to kill a YouTuber.

Only one?

[Isaaq 72]

Sir, go and play minecra** or something like that :S ...

 

Well... Seeing as all of that is being implemented - and soon - you should feel a little... Idiotic right now.

[JackinatorLP 21]

There are some features in the MOD and the SA that really help me to avoid bandits and let the friendly encounter rate go up to appr. 80% (in my case):

-In the MOD: Looking out for Zombies spawning far far away (I hope the new spawn mechanism will include Zombies only spawning in a 300 M radius around players)

-Analyze shooting sounds (Player vs Zombie, Player versus player(who shot whom first with what weapon?), PK-Equipment like sniper rifle, machine guns)

-Analyze other players (Movement, Clothing [Camo? Military?],  Actions, Tactics [Noob? Veteran?])

-Communication with bandits: I think (from personal experience) if you're too friendly and submissive in close  encounters, you will get shot for showing weakness, and being too dominant just lets people give a shit about you and try to kill you. For me it was successful to stick to a neutral tone and behaviour.

-Take short breaks to watch your Surroundings

With all these things it should be easier to minimize catastrophic encounters without adding another clunky element.

 

And if i get shot in the head after countless hours of breeding my supercharacter without even knowin who or what killed me, I'm shouting at my pc for 5 Seconds. After that, its just: Ok, restart, lets go, new Adventures!

Getting killed without a warning is and has been part of  SA and  the Mod.

This is why I don't quite understand your need for additional "game boundaries". The Game is as it is. Without the level of frustration immanent to it it wouldn't be half as much fun.

 

Did you ever play PES? I can say, I hate the Game and love it at the same moment. Playing hundreds of hours because the Skills are going up sooo slow. And its difficult and frustrating as hell. But Achieving something is really great in PES,

and it's the same with DayZ.. I don't want this game to be casualized. I really hope in the end it will be a game without any HUD (Inventory Management? Just like Surgeon Sim 2013 with a backpack instead of a patient... XD) and additional Markers etc. at all! So DayZ really could reinvent MMO games.

:)

Edited January 2, 2014 by JackinatorLP

[ThePieKing 17]

I'm gonna post pretty much what I posted on another one of these threads.... NO.

 

You will limit players to a point they will have to go bandit to even protect themselves.  People always have and always will abuse a system like this.

 

Let's say someone is following you around and won't leave you alone.  You can try to live with it but if they're dragging every zombie in town towards you, it's either kill every zombie in town to save yourselves (since zombies don't always follow the first person they see) or put this guy down and save your group.  With a system like that you are hindering yourself.  Let's say some guy just follows you around and all they do is stand behind you the whole time, you see a group in the distance, that said group is a group of "bandits", now this guy has given away your position and the bandits come by and kill all of you.  Or maybe he was working with the bandits in the first place.  Now, with your system killing both of these clowns brings me half way to two thirds of the way dead because some jackass wants to be.... well a jackass.

[friendly-forager 2]

Having you're ideas in the game will just ruin the excitement and thrill of the game IMO..I love bumping into another random player and getting the adrenaline rush it gives or the shakes thinking oh damn I'm going to los all my gear! Either way its exciting he he.

The paranoid ''is he going to shoot? Or shall I shoot... maybe he's friendly like me? Shall I run or shall I stay?'' Its a scary but an awesome buzz when you get those situations! or the panic shouting friendly over comms in game lol.

Now I will admit I did like the bandit skins in the mod as it did give you the heads up on what to expect from another player Unlike it is now.. its simply kill or be killed or of course run and hope for the best lol but all in all its still damn exciting! It keeps you on your toes :-)

[wolfsburg62 66]

"Bandits are in the area"? 

 

That defeats THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of the survival aspect. Go play something else  

[Vocc 0]

I don't know if it's already been suggested but what is a karma system was introduced and instead of a playing saying whether they're a survivor or a bandit, their actions in the game move their karma into either negative (kill player, gain bad karma, become tagged with bandit) or positive (possibly helped a player, spoke with players, gain good karma, become tagged with survivor). There could even be a ranking system with tags such as king bandit etc 

[Slyguy65 499]

I will never understand the logic people try and use when argueing a morality system...seriously think about.it.

 

"EWWW don't implement that its unrealistic"

Right cause its unrealistic to have human emotions and internal conflict.

 

"Don't punish me for playing the way I want to"

It isn't really a punishment, it should really just be a way to identify people.