Why do people think there would be more civilian weapons than military?

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

No assault rifles in the world are just semi auto. They are either semi+burst or semi+full. That's what makes them assault rifles by definition. Sorry but people using words incorrectly when they are attempting to make another person feel stupid needs addressed. Its like using bad grammar while trying to mock someone for poor spelling.

 

Um... Okay again, the word was not being used literally but rather I was referring to any weapon of that class. It's easier to say "assault rifle" than to say "semi auto M4, Ak47, AUG, G36, " whatever. Semantics. Learn the definition. 

 

-snip-

 

Privately owned weapons make up the bulk of all weapons in the world. Period. That actually answers your original question.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[captainvette2112 84]

 

Privately owned weapons make up the bulk of all weapons in the world. Period. That actually answers your original question.

 

 

So what , we aren't talking about the WORLD.... we are talking about 140 square miles of map which has at least 5 military bases within in it.

 

Stick 5 military installations in the city the size of Fresno CA and tell me what the per-capita ratio of military to civilian weaponry becomes 

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Since when was Balota paved? I have stayed away from there in the SA so maybe that's been changed from the mod.

I wasn't referencing Balota specifically since it does have a base down by the road, I was talking about you claiming that all airports have a police presence and that meaning M4 should be a necessity. Nearly all of the ones in Europe I've been to, 80+, had zero police outside of a local with a pistol that had an office there and those were rare. Even in Columbia where the military would always be there to greet you they didn't have bases. They came in a truck and left the same way with nothing stored there.

I think most people are trying to equate real life with what the creators of Arma did in order to make more content. Balota looks more like it was a county seat/airport that was taken over shortly after the shit hit the fan than something that would actually exist somewhere.

Balota has always looked paved to me. :|

 

A dirt runway does not equal an airport. :thumbsup: I will take back the comment of all airports having police though since that is neither here nor their since the ones in game do have it.

 

My only point is that these 'military weapons' are not far fetched and certainly not restricted to the military.

[Taylor (DayZ) 7]

For gameplay purposes, having a wide variety of civilian weapons would improve immersion. Since this is a post Soviet state, Mosin Nagants would be plentiful, as would CZ rifles and pistols. AK's would be harder to find but not impossible. NATO weapons should be very rare to come across.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

So what , we aren't talking about the WORLD.... we are talking about 140 square miles of map which has at least 5 military bases within in it.

 

Stick 5 military installations in the city the size of Fresno CA and tell me what the per-capita ratio of military to civilian weaponry becomes 

 

It would still be less than the amount of civilian weaponry.

[Bribase 251]

In my own little invented narrative of the Chernarussian zombie apocalypse the reason why there would be so little military gear is because put simply, the goverment were way in over their heads when the outbreak occured. People began to turn and this was mistaken for rioting and civil unrest. At that point the police were dispatched and commandeered structures that they thought could be defended, hence standard issue law enforcement weaponry being available in secure buildings like offices, schools, fire stations and police stations. Realising that even then the infected were impossible to combat in such small numbers, locals were deputised and civillian weapons were seized to help contain the outbreak.

 

By the time the Chernarussian military reacted to the outbreak it was an unwinnable situation. The military camps were set up for just long enough to evacuate VIPs and military officials by plane and helicopter. The limited supply of military loot is only available in military areas because there was no intention of waging a conventional war against the infected and no significant military force was deployed. The military cut their losses and ran, taking whatever ordinance they deemed valuable. Leaving the few "Lucky" enough to be immune to the virus but unluvky enough to be left behind to fend for themselves.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Bribase

[bassist05 69]

Personally if my country was being destroyed by an army of infected flesh eating people, i'd be shipping in guns and ammo like it was going out of style. But maybe that's just me. I'd also be calling in whatever allies I could find to help me out.

[Lorax 99]

Instantly defeats his own argument.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

 

Country Guns per 100 residents (2007)

 

 United States 89.0

 

 Czech Republic 16.3

 

 Russia 8.9

 

Doesn't really sound like "guns everywhere" to me.

 

 

I would say 9-16 guns per hundred people to still be a fairly high number. In searching a block of houses you would probably find a gun then.  Granted most would have taken those guns when they fled, so searching a few blocks of houses would have at least a gun.

Also my opinion on the military outposts at the airports is they were just that, outposts. Just trying to give security to the airports during evacuation, so there wouldn't really be any stock of weaponry. Just what the individuals had on them and some extra ammo stashed somewhere. I think the military grade spawns should be toned down drastically, and put some hand guns in residential spawns.

 

 

 

[Bribase 251]

So what , we aren't talking about the WORLD.... we are talking about 140 square miles of map which has at least 5 military bases within in it.

 

Stick 5 military installations in the city the size of Fresno CA and tell me what the per-capita ratio of military to civilian weaponry becomes 

 

I don't think that anything beyond NWAF ought to be considered a military base.

 

-Balota looks like a makeshift military/aid camp to process refugees leaving Electro and Cherno.

 

-Starry and Berezino (both now removed in standalone) seem to be makeshift camps to provide a limited military prescence in both major population centres

 

-NEAF was set up as a smaller auxilliary extraction point by air in case the larger NWAF was overrun. It's certainly not a military base; no perimeter walls, no military tents.

 

-There's now a mid-sized military base near Veresnik. I suspect that it was a preexisting military barracks that was used as a communications and resupply point closer to the centre of the infected area.

 

I don't think that there was much of a military force in Chernarus at all; Just small makeshift camps. You're overstating what constitutes a military base.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Bribase

[DemonGroover 8836]

Lets settle down people - no need to hurl insults.

 

And btw anyone else think that either Balota or the NEAF should be turned into a commercial airport just for a bit of variety?

Edited December 29, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Bribase 251]

The post was removed but I think it's worth making a point here none the less. A quick Google search for the topic of Ft Riley tells us

 

 

The 131,000ft² complex has a battalion headquarters, 138 barracks rooms, a soldier and family assistance centre, and company operating facilities. The project was undertaken by the Fort Riley garrison, the US Army Corps of Engineers, the Army Medical Department and the Warrior Transition Command.

 

"The base has a population of about 25,000 and is home to the 1st Infantry Division of the US."

 

 

It would be ludicrous to think that there is any comparable installation on Chernarus. NWAF, the biggest military "base" could probably accomodate a few hundred men at most. And that's if they relied on the Real Virtuality engine to make sure they clipped into each other.

[gibonez 3633]

Lets settle down people - no need to hurl insults.

 

And btw anyone else think that either Balota or the NEAF should be turned into a commercial airport just for a bit of variety?

 

That is actually a great idea. I would vote for balota being turned into a civlian airport.

 

If helicopters ever make it in a Civilian news chopper there and no military weapons or loot instead civilian loot.

[Bribase 251]

That is actually a great idea. I would vote for balota being turned into a civlian airport.

 

If helicopters ever make it in a Civilian news chopper there and no military weapons or loot instead civilian loot.

 

Would you still hold on to the encampment closer to the shore? It makes sense for it to be an aid camp (only lighly defended but with plenty of medical gear).

 

I'd expect that the civillian chopper would be long gone by now.

[mrscratch 20]

The number of illegal weapons is not going to be accurately recorded and then publically stored. For example, the number of teenagers with registered handguns in my old home town in southern cali is 0. Which would mean that no teenagers have handguns. However in the area I grew up in it seemed like three out of ten kids owned a handgun. Something obviously does not add up here which would lead me to think that the whole registered teenager handgun fact is't all that strong of a fact to use when debating a point.

Edit: Basically what I'm getting at is that using weapon statistics isn't really all that helpful if you want to know the true ratios. At the end of the day there is going to be a lot of civi weapons and military weapons. The question is after the apoc how many of which are going to be left laying around.

Edited December 29, 2013 by mrscratch

[ninjacalypse 551]

In an area that is roughly 140 sq miles (1/2 the size of the city limits of San Francisco ) there are 3 major military installations and at least 2 smaller ones. 

 

This is also the former Soviet Union....

 

There would be military equipment for days around there.  Have any idea how many AK's the Russians produced?  It is the most produced assault rifle in the world after all. 

 

So whats with all the too much military weapon cry baby crap?

 

Actually it's advertised as 230sqm.  But, what we have are a pistol, a mosin, which makes sense and a M4A1 which makes absolutely no sense.  There's no in-between.  That's it for now. 

 

I definitely think the M4A1 needs to be removed and replaced with AK47s quite obviously.  There are many other Russian/Soviet weapons that would make sense to be added to DayZ SA.

Edited December 29, 2013 by NeedsFoodBadly

[semipr0 402]

Kind of a moot discussion since the entire point of the M4 being the main gun in the alpha is because its essentially the base framework that most other guns will derive from as the game develops.

 

Simple facts are in three to six months finding M4's will be rarer than finding lower tier milgrade weaponry and the prevalance of civilian weaponry will be much higher than high tier milgrade hardware simply by its total volume.

 

So, in all fairness the discussion about what should be where and whats realistic is moot. The M4 is simply their modular weapons template that they're alpha testing to ensure its functional and bug free so they can use it as the modular standard for all other modular weapons that come after it. Which I expect the AK will likely be next on the list. (and I hope they have a modular barrel for it so you can swap it up to chamber 7.62) It only makes sense to build out your most complex challenges first, and bug test them til they're stable and then worry about the less complex weapons after achieving relative perfection with the most difficult systems to implement.

[gregor (DayZ) 95]

Lets settle down people - no need to hurl insults.

 

And btw anyone else think that either Balota or the NEAF should be turned into a commercial airport just for a bit of variety?

 

If there is something, what don't make sense, then this, that so small country has the opportunity to maintain the several military airbases. The reality is different, mostly.

I would assume that Balota's airfield would turn into the airport of agricultural Aviation. And there could be put a couple of AN 2. Also maybe one of the fire-fighting AN 2. Something like here.

 

  

 

At same time i would suggest to change the North-West International Airport into Military air base, where once was a Soviet heavy bombers, and later some Chernarussian fighter jets. Maybe, if in future we will see capital city of Chernarus , it is logical to assume that the international airport will be close to it. imho.

 

....

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157689-military-bases/?p=1590897

 

imho.

[Dchil 829]

I'm not assuming anything. That's just how it is. The majority of assault rifles produced in the world are semi auto. Also, you need extra parts to convert a semi auto to full so... yeah. It's not like you just open the thing up and spit in it and bam you have a machinegun. It just isn't that simple.

Actually a match stick under the sear of a FN FAL (or SLR for us Aussies) was very effective for making them full auto. This is all according to an Ex-ADF (Aussie defense force for the uninformed) armorer who worked with 'em, or so he heard  ;) .

[Novalis 17]

In every popular Zombie apocalypse scenario is always a moment where the military moves in. It is a logical reaction of a state to use military force if the citizens begin eating each other.

I see no problem in a lot of military presence and loot in DayZ. As for the number of bases and military installations, maybe they are not all Chernarussian - it's not that uncommon to have foreign army bases in a country.  There are plenty of US-Army bases in Europe and Asia and for example almost every NATO member has a base in Afghanistan. Finding lots of US military stuff outside the US is quite possible.

 

IMHO military loot shouldn't be so rare and definitely can be found in more than one place. I don't think the future of DayZ is all about creating a single PVP super-hotzone. 

Edited December 29, 2013 by Novalis

[codave 121]

This forum is borderline full retard lately.  Teh hell is wrong with some of you?

 

I can't say what firearm ownership is like in the specific part of the world the game takes place in, I simply have no clue.  Never been there, never want to go there.  I won't even set foot in California, Illinois, or New York.  Actually, well over half of my "collection" is illegal in CA and NY to begin with... that being said, I play this game for the firearms as much as I do for the Zombie/Survival aspect of it.  That's just how I am, and I'm betting I'm no different than many others.  There is a huge disconnect in opinions in regards to weaponry (clearly).  I'm sure there are a lot of reasons, and with in depth polling and research I'm sure we could boil it down to the most basic reasons for it, but that would be a waste of time.

 

In the end, the Dev team is going to do what they're going to do.  Maybe we have some sway here or there when it comes to the outcome of the game, but really we're simply making sure their ideas are working as they intended for them to work, it's all part of testing.  We aren't designers, we aren't developers (at least for this game), and we certainly aren't paid consultants.  We aren't going to like every single aspect of this game (or any other), so we just have to deal with it and choose whether we wish to continue playing it or not.

 

Believe me, I wish there were more games I could stand to play, but as it stands there are very few.  I take the bad with the good, and try not to get too worked up about it.  I'm not entitled to anything from the Dev team, and neither are any of you.  There is absolutely no point in going full retard on the forums, especially towards other members.  We put each other through enough hell in-game as it is, why bring it here?

[Publik 404]

I don't care what guns they give me, as long as zombies are enough of a threat to make me consider spending the ammo on them. What am I going to do with 600 rounds of 5.56?

[Private Evans 1303]

So what , we aren't talking about the WORLD.... we are talking about 140 square miles of map which has at least 5 military bases within in it.

 

Stick 5 military installations in the city the size of Fresno CA and tell me what the per-capita ratio of military to civilian weaponry becomes 

 

 

As every open world  game the map is just a Representation  of a real world area. In Arma 2 we were told that Chernarus is home to 3 million Chernorussians and 800000 Russian settlers...This would mean  38 000 survivors and more than 40 000 weapons including choppers and tanks of the CDF..but there are currently only 40 survivors  :D . Weapon loot is also just a represantion of real world data ( based on the Czech Republic) tweaked for a good game ballance and immersion.

Btw there are only 2 military bases marked on the map so far and one of them looks more than a research facility than a military base. The camps at Balota and the NW Airfield seem to be more evac camps. Most of the barracks and buildings again seem to be more home for police or paramilityry units guarding the airports or places like Green Mountain.

 

just my two cents

 

cheers

Edited December 29, 2013 by Private Evans

[wgaf 251]

A lot of people on here are Americans, and in the US there is an enormous number of civilian weapons everywhere. 

[Land Squid 22]

In an area that is roughly 140 sq miles (1/2 the size of the city limits of San Francisco ) there are 3 major military installations and at least 2 smaller ones. 

 

This is also the former Soviet Union....

 

There would be military equipment for days around there.  Have any idea how many AK's the Russians produced?  It is the most produced assault rifle in the world after all. 

 

So whats with all the too much military weapon cry baby crap?

 

 

No idea, but here's some handy numbers for you to use.

 

There is an estimated 600 Million small arms in the world. Of that, approximately 100 Million of them are variants of the AK pattern rifle. So, if you didn't account for country, out of all the guns you stumble across, one out of six should be an AK. For comparison, there were about 37 million Mosin-Nagants made, counting all variations.

 

 

(Oh, and about 300 million of those small arms are located in the U.S. 'Merica! B) )

[sav112g 114]

Has there ever been a proper background story to the Mod or SA. Something to explain the currant situation?  Did the infection start in the area drawing in Military and civilian medial units. It could be the case the Map area was one of the few last stand safer zones that has finally fallen and the infection/disease has burned itself out.

 

The Team could Wright any background to fit equipment expected to be found. I know it is early SA and I know some hate them but I really miss the excitement of an air unit passing overhead in the streams I watch. I hope Helicopters are brought in even if they are super rare and hard to maintain.