Why do people think there would be more civilian weapons than military?

[captainvette2112 84]

In an area that is roughly 140 sq miles (1/2 the size of the city limits of San Francisco ) there are 3 major military installations and at least 2 smaller ones. 

 

This is also the former Soviet Union....

 

There would be military equipment for days around there.  Have any idea how many AK's the Russians produced?  It is the most produced assault rifle in the world after all. 

 

So whats with all the too much military weapon cry baby crap?

[Bakercompany86 347]

I think it's more for balance and gameplay reasons than reality reasons.

 

Yeah technically any form of military installation would have weapons *somewhere*.  But do we really want everyone running around with full auto spray-n-pray weapons?  To me it doesn't seem nearly as fun or immersing as civilian weaponry.

 

 

Mainly a personal preference though.  Either way the game would be balanced as the map is too large for all but the largest groups of players to camp and defend.

[gibonez 3633]

People just dont want to see stupid weapons that would make absolutely no sense given the region.

 

Weapons such as

 

DMRs

m110s

ebrs

As 50s

m107s

Fn scars

ACRs

[DemonGroover 8836]

I have no problem with AK's being the most commonly found military equipment. Just as long as they aren't too common.

 

I would also imagine in a catastrophe most of the barracks would have been picked clean of any top gear.

[Bakercompany86 347]

I have no problem with AK's being the most commonly found military equipment. Just as long as they aren't too common.

 

I would also imagine in a catastrophe most of the barracks would have been picked clean of any top gear.

 

My thinking exactly.  AK-47's are very popular and numerous, in the semi-auto variant.  And I think semi-auto for the most part is the way to go with this game.  Combined with bolt action and pump action weapons of course.

 

But like you mentioned, full auto full blown military grade weapons should be very far and few between.  That's the stuff people would go for first and foremost (like the military people who evacuated long ago).

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Those 3 "installations" are crap compared to real military bases. I've always thought they were more research than anything but that's just my personal fiction to explain their size and lack of facilities.

 

I'd expect with all the houses, barns, and deer stands we'd have civilian weapons for hunting more than we would military weapons. That's my thinking behind it all.

 

 

EDIT: Balota seems very civilian-ish to me, as well...I don't count that and wish it didn't have military loot except for the tents.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Diggydug

[weparo 613]

In a city like SF... Sure. It's a huge city! In europe, AND in the US you can travel for miles, only to find a small (3k) town every 30 miles. Think Idaho or Montana. That kind of environement.... Plenty of gun nuts, many civilian weapons, some full auto police stuff, but no millitary bases.

 

 

Trust me, where DayZ takes place, there should only be one millitary loot spawn, and that is cherno. I don't mind the extra millitary spawns, but they are not "realistic".

[-Gews- 7443]

My thinking exactly.  AK-47's are very popular and numerous, in the semi-auto variant.  And I think semi-auto for the most part is the way to go with this game.

 

In the States, perhaps, due to NFA rules... in other countries full auto AKs may be more common in civilian hands (legal or not depending on the particular laws).

 

And also, full auto has never bothered anyone in DayZ so I think full auto AKM and AK-74 series is the way to go.

[semipr0 402]

I think the assumption of civilian armament > military armament comes simply from a few logical conclusions.

• In a situation of societal collapse, most individuals surviving it will have more immediate access to civilian weaponry that they either own, and/or can liberate from various sources like other civilian houses and relatively common hunting supply sources.
• Military hardware, even if it is in abundance in certain regions of the world isn't always the easiest thing to get your hands on...unless you happen to be surviving the apocalypse somewhere in Sudan maybe and even then I'd say your chances of surviving crossing the road are much lower than your chances of finding a 40 year old AK-47 laying around that still has a functional magazine.
• In the terms of high end military hardware even if say an entire military base was devastated and had no defenses whatsoever, getting into the munitions buildings in these bases is not actually as feasible as one might assume from the DayZ standpoint of just walking into a barracks and finding guns on the floor....most military bases keep very tight track of their hardware and almost all of it is locked up behind some pretty thick walls and doors so the chances of the average civilian survivor actually getting to any of that stuff is not very likely.

Suffice it to say...in an apocalypse...I'm betting on Wal-Mart before I'll bet on the National Guard Armory down the street from it. Just cause at least at Wal-Mart I can grab a crowbar that can snap the locks on the gun storage cabinets from a couple isles over..whereas at the Armory...I'd be lucky if I got into the munitions locker there even if I had a stick of dynamite. Edited December 29, 2013 by semipr0

[Whatsausername 119]

Your typical AK is Fully automatic. There just not easy to get in the US but in most other countries (non-industrialized) Semi-auto versions of this weapon are far more rare than the full auto ones. And I believe the devs consider ak's under the civilian side of weaponry.

 

Edit: And gews beat me too it......

Edited December 29, 2013 by Whatsausername

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

This is also the former Soviet Union....

 

Instantly defeats his own argument.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

 

Country Guns per 100 residents (2007)

 

 United States 89.0

 

 Czech Republic 16.3

 

 Russia 8.9

 

Doesn't really sound like "guns everywhere" to me.

 

 

Your typical AK is Fully automatic. There just not easy to get in the US but in most other countries (non-industrialized) Semi-auto versions of this weapon are far more rare than the full auto ones. And I believe the devs consider ak's under the civilian side of weaponry.

 

This is also false. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic

 

B - Guns requiring permit

 

  Includes semi automatic and single or multiple shot handguns, revolvers, semi automatic rifles and shotguns with magazine capacity over 3 rounds or with a detachable magazine, semi automatic military style rifles, rim-fire firearms under 280 mm of length and all shotguns under 600 mm of length. Assault rifles, such as vz. 58 (- precisly: vz.858 - semi-automatic version of rifle, vz.58 belongs to cat.A), are not singled out from other semi automatics and fall into this category. As of 2013, there is no vocal debate on their ban. They are available to any license holder and they are generally not a subject of controversy.

 

Semi auto variants of military rifles are not that uncommon. In fact, they are the most commonly available variant. Perhaps the devs should consider restricting a majority of assault rifles to semi auto, and only military variants would have a fully auto option. 

 

That is the most realistic approach, even for the United States.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Mao Zedong 48]

I think the assumption of civilian armament > military armament comes simply from a few logical conclusions.

• In a situation of societal collapse, most individuals surviving it will have more immediate access to civilian weaponry that they either own, and/or can liberate from various sources like other civilian houses and relatively common hunting supply sources.
• Military hardware, even if it is in abundance in certain regions of the world isn't always the easiest thing to get your hands on...unless you happen to be surviving the apocalypse somewhere in Sudan maybe and even then I'd say your chances of surviving crossing the road are much lower than your chances of finding a 40 year old AK-47 laying around that still has a functional magazine.
• In the terms of high end military hardware even if say an entire military base was devastated and had no defenses whatsoever, getting into the munitions buildings in these bases is not actually as feasible as one might assume from the DayZ standpoint of just walking into a barracks and finding guns on the floor....most military bases keep very tight track of their hardware and almost all of it is locked up behind some pretty thick walls and doors so the chances of the average civilian survivor actually getting to any of that stuff is not very likely.

Suffice it to say...in an apocalypse...I'm betting on Wal-Mart before I'll bet on the National Guard Armory down the street from it. Just cause at least at Wal-Mart I can grab a crowbar that can snap the locks on the gun storage cabinets from a couple isles over..whereas at the Armory...I'd be lucky if I got into the munitions locker there even if I had a stick of dynamite.

 

 

Eh.. I imagine walmart would be completely empty.. but either way, all the weapons have to go somewhere right? IE: military weapons just don't disappear.. also military personal (trained in killing live, function, returning fire hostiles) should have no problem against a zombie walking 2 miles per hour... what exactly happens to all those military personals and weapons? Maybe I'm in a unique situation, but I have a brother, dad, sister, and brother in law (just immediate fam) that has access to .50 call weapons (and above) (ie brother flies c-130's and operates anti-aircraft weapons for the Coast Guard.) I think REMOVING military weapons is completely absurd and unrealistic. I just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever that the most trained and heavily armed people die and their weapons completely vanish. :/

 

 

 

Instantly defeats his own argument.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

 

Country Guns per 100 residents (2007)

 

 United States 89.0

 

 Czech Republic 16.3

 

Doesn't really sound like "guns everywhere" to me.

 

 

In dayz.. doesn't only 1% of the population survive? that being said... 16 guns per 1 person.. that's a shit ton imo.

 

""B - Guns requiring permit

 

  Includes semi automatic and single or multiple shot handguns, revolvers, semi automatic rifles and shotguns with magazine capacity over 3 rounds or with a detachable magazine, semi automatic military style rifles, rim-fire firearms under 280 mm of length and all shotguns under 600 mm of length. Assault rifles, such as vz. 58 (- precisly: vz.858 - semi-automatic version of rifle, vz.58 belongs to cat.A), are not singled out from other semi automatics and fall into this category. As of 2013, there is no vocal debate on their ban. They are available to any license holder and they are generally not a subject of controversy.

 

Semi auto variants of military rifles are not that uncommon. In fact, they are the most commonly available variant. Perhaps the devs should consider restricting a majority of assault rifles to semi auto, and only military variants would have a fully auto option. 

 

That is the most realistic approach, even for the United States.

""

You're assuming people in a zombie apocalypse would follow laws/regulations.. have you ever fired an assault rifle? It's not really that hard hard to change a semi-automatic to fully auto... just illegal :)

Edited December 29, 2013 by Mao Zedong

[gregor (DayZ) 95]

If we are talking about the former Soviet Union, it is not an AK-47 or AKM, but just the AK-74 remain numerous. But again, not in all ex-USSR republics. From some of them, soviet weapons was moved onto Russia territory.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I think it is a mistake to think that M4 or AK or DMR or M24 are military only weapons. That is just silly. Every police department in the US has M4s and DMR/M24 type firearms. Hell the M24 is just a remington 700 with a fancy stock, I got one in my closet. The DMR is just an M14 with a fancy stock and scope. The police in many east Europe countries have AKs as well.

 

So maybe Balota is not a military base, maybe it is an airport with a police presence. All airport police have those same firearms. The rest seem to be camps and stuff, perhaps from troops that moved into the area to help stop the outbreak.

 

 

Finding 1 M4 in a jailhouse / police station is not far fetched.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I'll take m4s and aks all day long. It's the DMRs, light machine guns, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, & sniper rifles that I don't really care for.

 

 

Edit: Also, it's not always what would realistically be there that really matters, you also have to consider the effect it will have on the game. I personally think less military gear will make the game better.

Edited December 29, 2013 by bad_mojo

[hogscraper 328]

Not sure where I fall on this one because I thought this was supposed to be right after the outbreak hit so it would seem like a lot of stuff might still be on the bases. Either way I'm sure that most of the good weapons would have already been taken. Since they wouldn't despawn in reality you would assume, though, that even if every single gun was taken from the armories around Chernarus that they would still be lootable somewhere on the map. Most would naturally be laying around bases or just outside but there could easily be some soldiers who took their guns home to defend their families. As more soldiers fall I doubt there would be much order left at the end and I doubt most soldiers wouldn't be using everything they have available to them. 

 

While this would easily explain why there are military grade weapons all around I still think they shouldn't have certain types of guns for balance reasons.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

People just dont want to see stupid weapons that would make absolutely no sense given the region.

 

Weapons such as

 

DMRs

m110s

ebrs

As 50s

m107s

Fn scars

ACRs

Meh, same thing, give them a Russian skin and people would still be on their horses.

[hogscraper 328]

I think it is a mistake to think that M4 or AK or DMR or M24 are military only weapons. That is just silly. Every police department in the US has M4s and DMR/M24 type firearms. Hell the M24 is just a remington 700 with a fancy stock, I got one in my closet. The DMR is just an M14 with a fancy stock and scope. The police in many east Europe countries have AKs as well.

 

So maybe Balota is not a military base, maybe it is an airport with a police presence. All airport police have those same firearms. The rest seem to be camps and stuff, perhaps from troops that moved into the area to help stop the outbreak.

 

 

Finding 1 M4 in a jailhouse / police station is not far fetched.

I don't think you've been to many airfields before. Almost no place I've ever landed with a dirt field has had any kind of police presence. Even in military states its rare to find more than an armed guard with a pistol at some hole in the wall airfield with a dirt landing strip. I also doubt that if a jail had 1 m4 it would still be there after the shit hit the fan. It would likely be on the floor of some house where the cop died or in a burned up car somewhere. You might find some ammo there but even that is unlikely since the cops who worked there would be the first people to loot the place. It would more than likely all be laying where ever the cop who took it died.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

 

You're assuming people in a zombie apocalypse would follow laws/regulations.. have you ever fired an assault rifle? It's not really that hard hard to change a semi-automatic to fully auto... just illegal :)

 

 

I'm not assuming anything. That's just how it is. The majority of assault rifles produced in the world are semi auto. Also, you need extra parts to convert a semi auto to full so... yeah. It's not like you just open the thing up and spit in it and bam you have a machinegun. It just isn't that simple.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I don't think you've been to many airfields before. Almost no place I've ever landed with a dirt field has had any kind of police presence. Even in military states its rare to find more than an armed guard with a pistol at some hole in the wall airfield with a dirt landing strip. I also doubt that if a jail had 1 m4 it would still be there after the shit hit the fan. It would likely be on the floor of some house where the cop died or in a burned up car somewhere. You might find some ammo there but even that is unlikely since the cops who worked there would be the first people to loot the place. It would more than likely all be laying where ever the cop who took it died.

Haven't been to many airfields? I spent 5 years flying in helicopters for the US Marine Corps and have spent 6 loading planes for the Air Force. I have seen my fair share of airfields. :lol:

 

Balota is not a dirt field.

 

The airfields YOU have been to don't have that presence, it does not mean that no airfield anywhere has it. This one obviously does, considering the jail, and several barracks.

 

I am not saying the jail/police station would have 1 M4 pre outbreak. They would absolutely have more, but finding 1 straggler afterward would not be far fetched. The point anyway is that not just the military uses them, the police do as well.

[hogscraper 328]

I'm not assuming anything. That's just how it is. The majority of assault rifles produced in the world are semi auto. Also, you need extra parts to convert a semi auto to full so... yeah. It's not like you just open the thing up and spit in it and bam you have a machinegun. It just isn't that simple.

Um, by the definition a rifle isn't an assault rifle unless it has select fire capability. That means semi-auto and at least burst fire but mostly it means semi and auto firing capabilities. You're confusing assault rifles with the American usage of the term 'assault weapon' which is a semi-auto rifle with certain characteristics of assault rifles like larger magazines, folding stocks or muzzle suppression systems.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Um, by the definition a rifle isn't an assault rifle unless it has select fire capability. That means semi-auto and at least burst fire but mostly it means semi and auto firing capabilities. You're confusing assault rifles with the American usage of the term 'assault weapon' which is a semi-auto rifle with certain characteristics of assault rifles like larger magazines, folding stocks or muzzle suppression systems.

 

A semi auto m4 or ak47 is still an m4 or ak47. I'm not "confusing" anything. I'm just using is as a broad term to refer to any rifle that is generally automatic or used for medium range engagements, as opposed to a sniper rifle, bolt action, or carbine. But thanks for attempting to educate me with a pointless semantic argument.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[hogscraper 328]

Balota is not a dirt field.

 

The airfields YOU have been to don't have that presence, it does not mean that no airfield anywhere has it. This one obviously does, considering the jail, and several barracks.

 

Since when was Balota paved? I have stayed away from there in the SA so maybe that's been changed from the mod.

I wasn't referencing Balota specifically since it does have a base down by the road, I was talking about you claiming that all airports have a police presence and that meaning M4 should be a necessity. Nearly all of the ones in Europe I've been to, 80+, had zero police outside of a local with a pistol that had an office there and those were rare. Even in Columbia where the military would always be there to greet you they didn't have bases. They came in a truck and left the same way with nothing stored there.

I think most people are trying to equate real life with what the creators of Arma did in order to make more content. Balota looks more like it was a county seat/airport that was taken over shortly after the shit hit the fan than something that would actually exist somewhere.

[hogscraper 328]

 

I'm not assuming anything. That's just how it is. The majority of assault rifles produced in the world are semi auto. Also, you need extra parts to convert a semi auto to full so... yeah. It's not like you just open the thing up and spit in it and bam you have a machinegun. It just isn't that simple.

 

No assault rifles in the world are just semi auto. They are either semi+burst or semi+full. That's what makes them assault rifles by definition. Sorry but people using words incorrectly when they are attempting to make another person feel stupid needs addressed. Its like using bad grammar while trying to mock someone for poor spelling.

Edited December 29, 2013 by hogs

[captainvette2112 84]

Instantly defeats his own argument.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

 

Country Guns per 100 residents (2007)

 

 United States 89.0

 

 Czech Republic 16.3

 

 Russia 8.9

 

Doesn't really sound like "guns everywhere" to me.

 

 

 

 

You might want to READ YOUR OWN DAMN LINK.

 

"number of privately owned small firearms divided by number of residents"

 

Let me make this a little more clear for you...  privately owned small firearms.

 

Military weaponry would not be included in your wiki stats.

 

There are at least 5 military installations in an area 1/2 the size of San Francisco... If anything this further proves my point... there would be MORE military weapons in this area than civilian 

Edited December 29, 2013 by captainvette2112