Why is the world of dayz so static ?

[pogosphere 27]

I'm too TFL to read all that. Who cares about smashing a door down wih an axe? Too many wine tasters out there...jmo.

 

Yes its exausting to read all that text, your right .

 

 

 

 

You are worried about destroying a door?

 

 

 

 

Destruction on buildings in arma 3:

Blending in a smoke shader while replaceing the old poly model of the building by loading a new one while been hidden under the shader , like arma 3 does it with the "destruction" of buildings,

is not a very professional attemptd of simulating a destruction on a building.

Damage model in arma 3:

Its like this:

Not impressed at all, sorry.

This one the other side is a pretty good attempt and this game (red fraction guerrilla) is  4 years old and has multiplayer TDM .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GEfIlqgtI#t=0

 

Edited December 28, 2013 by pogosphere

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

People are still pointing out the best various games have to offer while ignoring their flaws and expects DayZ to have everything? That type of logic isn't even worthy of a discussion. If you're disappointed it doesn't have all of that, don't buy that game. If you already bought it and are disappointed it doesn't have all of this and won't, then  you need to do more research. 3 minutes of research is all it takes to figure that out.

[Lookdavook 18]

really that guy appears like some EA worker to me xD

[pogosphere 27]

really that guy appears like some EA worker to me xD

 

No i hate EA.

But i have visited the sim city 2013 forums a while ago to shit on them.

 

 

 

People are still pointing out the best various games have to offer while ignoring their flaws and expects DayZ to have everything? That type of logic isn't even worthy of a discussion. If you're disappointed it doesn't have all of that, don't buy that game. If you already bought it and are disappointed it doesn't have all of this and won't, then  you need to do more research. 3 minutes of research is all it takes to figure that out.

Red Fraction Guerrila was not done by a potent triple A studio and it was rated good but not great. But it did something right, the destruction engine.

What does dayz right beside of taking your money and bringing you in a mindset to even defend them after that raid.

Edited December 28, 2013 by pogosphere

[R.J. 70]

 actually thats how things are supposed to work genius....

So, is Dayz the exception?

 

 

First and foremost, I'm a fan of Dayz and want to see the game succeed or I wouldn't be wasting my time here. To say I didn't find certain aspects of the mod dull would be a lie, but going to war in a forum due to voicing my opinion is stupid. I really enjoy reading threads that have constructive debates and opinions that reflect the direction the development team chose to take. Sure, there was a time I loved the Battlefield series (namely BF2), but felt every evolution lacked "soul". A game in which every weapon has 100 configurations and thousands of pointless medals after every round simply masks over the core of what made the franchise successful to begin with. The longer I played BF4, the more it seemed like I was playing a slot machine.

 

With all that, there is no denying clunky delayed movement and interaction with simple things like doors and ladders will probably end up remaining as is among other things. The smooth and easy character movements one would think is a given in any modern day release just doesn't exist. There's no doubt the team will add alot of content, but we'll eventually see how well that content gets integrated.  

 

Which brings up the next point. What exactly is going to constitute when the game moves out of the "Alpha" phase? Or, even the transition into the final product? Is there a timeline on achieving these objectives, months, years, never?

Edited December 28, 2013 by R.J.

[CoachMcGuirk 1]

i was pretty disappointed when i booted up SA alpha for the first time and found the same clunky character movements, world interactions, and low fps.  I don't think anyone can deny that.  I think what some people are feeling, but not saying as much, is that we feel mislead into thinking the SA would be an immediate improvement in these very basic areas of gameplay.  Now I'm questioning whether these promises (underground bases, construction, etc) that have been made already can even be achieved on this engine.  My confidence has been rattled, undeniably.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Welcome, to 2004 (HL2).

 

Also, here is some pre-alpha Starforge physics.

Keep in mind Starforge is being made by 3-4 guys who are all 20 years old and live in my own city, literally started out of their house.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uIANB-wgY

 

They had literally no funding in the beginning but now have $135,000 raised from indiegogo. Bohemia has millions of dollars and an intact office infrastructure already up and running.

 

Get it through your damn heads. This is a terrible development team/leadership.

 

I paid for that game and it sucks absolute dick. Like a whole bag of dicks. Features in that game were total fabrications in many cases, and it's performance is pure shit. Please shove off. They aren't comparable projects.

 

For the record people, you seem to be overlooking the glaringly OBVIOUS problems in comparing these games which have destruction engines. They don't have persistent inventories. They don't have a nearly 300 square kilometer landmass which the server has to keep track of at all times. They don't spawn hundreds of thousands of loot objects and thousands of zombies. They don't use the RV engine, which makes the entire fucking argument pointless. This engine =/= other engines. They aren't capable of the same things. Pure and simple. Sure, "but bf4 has physics and pooticle effects and buildings that fall down (in a pre-scripted manner)! Why can't DayZ do it?" Well, quite simply, DayZ is not bf4. If you like that game, go play it instead. It still can't get even close to the same size map as DayZ. It doesn't have a persistent inventory database which the server must constantly handle and upload to a central hive. It doesn't have to deal with all sorts of complicated LOD situations like looking at a hill that is literally 5 km away. 

Edited December 28, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

I paid for that game and it sucks absolute dick. Please shove off. They aren't comparable projects.

Same. A friend got two when he bought it, gave me a copy, and neither of us have touched it since because there's nothing to do.

 

Personally I'm disappointed we can't go to space. I mean Kerbal Space Program has a much smaller budget and team and yet you can fly from planet to planet. It's almost 2014, wth is Rocket doing with all this time?

[Private Evans 1303]

Single player games/small maps is not the same as multiplayer games/large maps.

Dayz is multiplayer, has a very large map and an emormous draw distance.

 

 

but it has no dogs and no Fish AI

Edited December 28, 2013 by Private Evans

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Same. A friend got two when he bought it, gave me a copy, and neither of us have touched it since because there's nothing to do.

 

Personally I'm disappointed we can't go to space. I mean Kerbal Space Program has a much smaller budget and team and yet you can fly from planet to planet. It's almost 2014, wth is Rocket doing with all this time?

 

Exactly. I saw videos of people building things in space, which was a total fucking lie designed to cheat me out of $20.

 

 

This one the other side is a pretty good attempt and this game (red fraction guerrilla) is  4 years old and has multiplayer TDM .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GEfIlqgtI#t=0

 

That video is over LAN, smart guy. And as previously stated, Red Faction does not have nearly the same map size as DayZ, nor does it have any persistent character features which require massive amounts of network communication.

Edited December 28, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[SoulAssassin808 13]

 

99.9% of this thread can be ignored due to the fact this game is in Alpha.

Instead of bitching, just make a wishlist so its constructive feedback.

 

I'm sorry that 99.9% of you are illiterate and can't read the store page.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The thing that people seems to overlook in this thread presenting their favourite games is that none of these games present all the features you complain that dayZ doesn't have "at once".

 

give me a game that has:

• Rigid body physics for vehicles.
• 225km2 terrain.
• Dynamic structure destruction.
• Fully physical player movements.
• Full entity persistence (and i do mean it, GTA V doesn't keep track of everything in the world, only what is directly around players).
• long view distances suitable for realistic 300m target engagement.
• realistic firearm beahavior and bullet drop.
• support for large amounts of players.
• large amount if npcs at the same time (zombies or other).

Every ambitious games out there pick only a few of those "praised" features, none of them implement all of them, due to time constrains, money, manpower but also... the target gaming system they are aiming for. People can whine all they want how consoles hold pc gaming back, PCs do not have unlimited available resources, you run quickly out of ram to store your game, out of video ram to store your textures and models and out of shader units to compute your lighting, shadows, normals and specular effects.

 

But more important, you criticize the solution they took for building destruction as unprofessional or "gimmicky"... dude, wake up, every single game out there exploit every tricks and shortcuts in the book to get things done on the cheap. It's not a question of laziness, it's about choosing what you're doing with your processing power.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Lady Kyrah

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

You act like they dont have made a ton of money out of arma 2 , arma 3 and the steam sales of dayz.

There are many development teams out there which have less than 30 developer, they are making indie-games like Bohemia Interactive does.

But non of them is chargeing 60 bugs for there indie games!

And by the way if they would  take 10 % of the money they made out of the steam sales of dayz standalone they could license every engine on the planet. 

I dont understand whats so hard to understand on this equation:

premium product            = premium price  (60 $)

medium quality product  = medium price   (20-30$)

low quality product         = low prize           (1-20 $)

 

 

If someone wants to pay for call of duty ghost 60 $ than its the problem of this person.

As long as people buy this kind of stuff at this pricepoint even if it is low quality , Activision will happily charge that price for an 6 years old engine.

As Bohemia Interactive will go on with selling you a renamed arma 2, based on an engine which is even older than the call of duty engine, as dayz.

       

Define what makes an engine "old" for you.

 

Because , news flash , each version of the unreal engine is built on the previous one. Each version of the quake engine was built on the previous one and so on. There is nothing wrong with updating and refining an existing engine. Nobody in their right mind just scrape years of programming and testing like this.

 

A beginner programmer is still building his toolset and skills and rewrite a lot of his own code. A good programmer write good code. An excellent programmers goes "Have i seen this before?" and doesn't rewrite code that he can just pull out of a previous project.

[pogosphere 27]

Again great feedback from all of you!

 

Define what makes an engine "old" for you.

 

Because , news flash , each version of the unreal engine is built on the previous one. Each version of the quake engine was built on the previous one and so on. There is nothing wrong with updating and refining an existing engine. Nobody in their right mind just scrape years of programming and testing like this.

 

A beginner programmer is still building his toolset and skills and rewrite a lot of his own code. A good programmer write good code. An excellent programmers goes "Have i seen this before?" and doesn't rewrite code that he can just pull out of a previous project.

 

 

Old games are not nessesary bad games. There is a huge amount of old games, which are more fun to play than many of the new, so called, triple A titles.
The most important aspect of any game is, that you get sucked into the world and forget everything else around you for a few hours.
To achieve that, the game should have as less as possible, so called, immersion-breaking moments.

These are moments like:

- running against an invisable wall because you reached the end of the level.
- solid objects like a railway or road stop to exist when you reach the end of the map.
- beeing unable to jump or climb certain points of the maps which look climbable.
- beeing unable to destroy even wooden objects
- recognizing that the enemy you are hitting has almost no hitimpact-animation what so ever.
- beeing unable to bounce over light objects like chairs
- textfade-ins and teleports replaceing player animations


Take this scenarios as an example:


Scenario 1:

I am in dayz, have no ammo at all, or have wastet my last shoot and a, with an firearm armed, bandit is chaseing me into a building.
I am running up into the first floor and he follows me with a distance of only 10 meters.


-How fun would it be if i could smash the wooden window-frame in the room of the first floor with an axe , climb out of the window dangle on the roof of
the window and from there jump down onto the ground,while he is running into the room sees the smashed window, looks down, sees me running into the forest
near the house, takes a last shot and barely misses.


Scenario 2:

Imagine there would exist an actual indoor ligthing system, like it is standart for all other games since many years ago.
And you want to loot a bigger house which is totally barricaded, with nailed up windows, so that only a small amount of light can shine into
the house. The Inside of the house is not completly dark but dark enough that some bandit, or a bandit group, could hide in the shadows of the
cant over furnitures or in lockers, with their shotguns pressed against the walls of the locker, just waiting so that you can come close enough to pum you full with
shotgun shells.

-How fun would it be if you could actuall hide in furnitures like lockers or crawl through (selfmade) holes in the floor under the wooden planks of the floor.
 So that you can slowly crawl  under the enemy and shoot him from under the floor while he is standig on the floor.

-How fun would it be to flood the whole ground with gasoline, out of petrol cans, waiteing untill the enemy group walks in and then ligthing the ground on fire,
 while they are standing in the middle of the gasoline-flooded room.


But for that kind of cat and mouse games you would need an actual dynamical lighing engine and some kind of particle engine, which simulates the dispersion of the fire.
And an fluid engine so that the enemys have the chance to spot the wet floor .And you would need actual furniture and items in the house, instead of almost compleetly
empty rooms, which are not designed to have interessting gameplay in them, because its much more importand to render that region where you where hiking, and took all the
pictures with your camera, geographically corect , instead of building some fictional buildings which have big enough rooms with enough furniture and items in it to
generate  interresting indoor gameplay.


Games like far cry 3 for example have a great fire engine:

And every game of the world has a better indoor lighting engine than dayz:

Look, for example, at the indoor areas of this division trailer at 1:19 min . I cant get enough of how much love they put in every detail of the indoor areas.

Becaus you have no indoor lighting engine at all!!!
Like you have no physic engine at all!!!

But you have forcefeeding , handcuffing and the clownmasks out of payday 2 , great prioritization and decision making!


  Edited December 28, 2013 by pogosphere

[pogosphere 27]

Just for clarification.
 

 

 

The thing that people seems to overlook in this thread presenting their favourite games is that none of these games present all the features you complain that dayZ doesn't have "at once".

 

give me a game that has:

• Rigid body physics for vehicles.
• 225km2 terrain.
• Dynamic structure destruction.
• Fully physical player movements.
• Full entity persistence (and i do mean it, GTA V doesn't keep track of everything in the world, only what is directly around players).
• long view distances suitable for realistic 300m target engagement.
• realistic firearm beahavior and bullet drop.
• support for large amounts of players.
• large amount if npcs at the same time (zombies or other).

Every ambitious games out there pick only a few of those "praised" features, none of them implement all of them, due to time constrains, money, manpower but also... the target gaming system they are aiming for. People can whine all they want how consoles hold pc gaming back, PCs do not have unlimited available resources, you run quickly out of ram to store your game, out of video ram to store your textures and models and out of shader units to compute your lighting, shadows, normals and specular effects.

 

But more important, you criticize the solution they took for building destruction as unprofessional or "gimmicky"... dude, wake up, every single game out there exploit every tricks and shortcuts in the book to get things done on the cheap. It's not a question of laziness, it's about choosing what you're doing with your processing power.

 

Welcome to MythBusters:

The "Bohemia Interactive has no financial possibility" myth

Stop acting like Bohemia Interactive is a small developmentstudio, which is just in the moment developing its basic programming tools and infrastructure.
Bohemia Interactive (BI) is around until Operation Flash Point. They where foundet 1999:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia_Interactive

Every small developmentstudio would be exuberantly happy if they had only a small part of the financial possibilitys  BI has and had for over 10 years.
They made so much money with there products, just look at the steam sales of dayz standalone "alpha". If they have no money at the moment , than just because of
bad managment and spending money for things which are unnessesary for the gamedevelopment.

The "Dayz is only in development for 5 month" myth

Dayz is arma2 multiplayer, only renamed and rebranded. If you look at it there is now way that you can say that this game is an indipendent game.

-Its almost (to an degree over 90%) the same map than in arma 2
-Its the same engine (beside of some shadow improvements which are not even as good as in arma 3, and volumetric clouds)
-Its even so that it has less weapons and items than arma 2 multiplayer.

Its not only arma 2 mp renamed , its less than that . It has not anymore all the weapons and items and fanmade contet which arma 2 mp and the day z mod had a year ago.
And arma 2 was released 29th of may 2009 , even the dlc "operation arrowhead" was released 27th of june 2010.

So if dayz "standalone" has almost the same map as arma 2 + indoor areas + itemsystem + better static shadows and volumetric clouds, than tell me why should i not be allowed to
say that dayz is in development and therefore in alpa for almost 3 years ?

Actually its more than 3 years now because the game is only a rebrandet arma 2 with even less contetn and over 90 % of the residual contet absoulut identical !!

Just because they have added indoor areas + itemsystem + better static shadows and volumetric clouds its not a indipendet game .
You cant be serious with that.

The "No game has rigid body physics for vehicles, 225km2 terrain,dynamic structure destruction,fully physical player movements,.............,large amount if npcs at the same time (zombies or other). "excuse:

Yes no game has all of that at the same time , you are right.
But is it more important to have a 225 km^2 mapsize or a proper indoor lighting engine or some proper indoor areas at all, which are not total empty, look mostly the same, have all almost the same size and form and have absolutely no gameplay value beside of looting a 12 m^2 room after the other , at all.

Why can you possible think that it is a good idea to create a 225km^2 big map, with almost no interesting indoorareas at all , and put towns with almost only small 12 m^2 big rooms, town for town,  on the map?What would change if the area would not be 225 km^2 large but instead of this a quarter of this. Nothing with only 100 players on the map.


-You say no game has all of that properties you enumerate. You are right
- I say no game , beside of a few games like Alien:Colonel Marines , Duke Nukem Forever maybe Gothic 3, has done not one of the points you have mentioned
(Im not talking about all , im talking about only 1) in an somehow acceptable form.

Arma 2 <=> Dayz has :

-no ragdoll
-no dynamic lighting engine
-no indoor lighting engien at all
-no physic engine
-more than 50 % of the boadymovements is done by text fade ins and/or animations with clipping errors
- no NPC s at all (comon you cant call this Zombi KI , NPC)
- pop up problems in the environment in middle distance (grass on  the ground fades out for example)
-no realistic firearm behavior, even how with this netcode (how is it realistic that one player can take 2 mags full of bullets and still is alive?)

It has none of them , not one single of them!
And its not in alpha its released since 2010 (see the : Dayz is only in development for 5 month" myth)
 

Edited December 28, 2013 by pogosphere

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

He makes valid points, the main one being: If we pay for a tripple A game then we expect a triple a game. 

[combatcomm1 234]

You are an angry angry man. I agree this engine is archaic and I wonder often about Bohemia management and developer skill set but lighten up. You don't have to buy it if you don't like it. 

 

What do you hope to accomplish with this thread? 

[victusmortuus 1074]

Shit man Dayz was only £20, chill out.

[Shaun of the Dead 36]

He makes valid points, the main one being: If we pay for a tripple A game then we expect a triple a game. 

I'd like it if his suggestions were in the realm of plausibility though.

[Jamz 253]

He makes valid points, the main one being: If we pay for a tripple A game then we expect a triple a game. 

 

No we didn't. We paid £20 for an ongoing alpha version of a game which will become a triple A game, not £40 for an unfinished Triple A game. It's actually a bargain.

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

I'd like it if his suggestions were in the realm of plausibility though.

 

Agreed some points are perhaps are not doable, but there are plenty that are. 

 

Take a look at arma 3, yes there are problems but notice how fluid the animations are. 

 

Take a moment and look at the mod breaking point for arma 3, notice the zombies, how well they are made. 

 

These are plausible with dayz. 

[combatcomm1 234]

ARMA 3 animations fluid?? Better yes, fluid, hardly. 

[bfisher 561]

Sweet Jesus, the fucking entitlement.  People act like just because they dropped $20 to play an early release alpha DayZ should have 10,000 square miles of dynamically generated completely destructible environment, powered by CryEngine with every stick, rock and blood spatter modeled with real-time particle physics and a million AI controlled ragdoll zombies and the ability to build Minecraft style fortresses out of the environment.

 

Or even worse, the fanboy base think that the alpha is an eventual prelude to that.

 

Here's the deal.  It's a freakin game.  Constrained by the limitation of current technology, Bomhemia's finances and Rocket & Co abilities as software developers.  The graphics will not be a good as a shooter on rails or even Call of Duty or Battlefield since the map sizes are an order of magnitude larger.  Not to mention that Arma was apparently never designed for that level of detail anyway.  It appears to be designed for tanks and helicopters and infantry engaging each other at distances of hundreds or thousands of yards.  Not turning a hoard of zombies into bloody meat chunks with a fire ax, Dead Rising style. 

 

 

Be cool if it could though.

[pogosphere 27]

Sweet Jesus, the fucking entitlement.  People act like just because they dropped $20 to play an early release alpha DayZ should have 10,000 square miles of dynamically generated completely destructible environment, powered by CryEngine with every stick, rock and blood spatter modeled with real-time particle physics and a million AI controlled ragdoll zombies and the ability to build Minecraft style fortresses out of the environment.

 

Or even worse, the fanboy base think that the alpha is an eventual prelude to that.

 

Here's the deal.  It's a freakin game.  Constrained by the limitation of current technology, Bomhemia's finances and Rocket & Co abilities as software developers.  The graphics will not be a good as a shooter on rails or even Call of Duty or Battlefield since the map sizes are an order of magnitude larger.  Not to mention that Arma was apparently never designed for that level of detail anyway.  It appears to be designed for tanks and helicopters and infantry engaging each other at distances of hundreds or thousands of yards.  Not turning a hoard of zombies into bloody meat chunks with a fire ax, Dead Rising style. 

 

 

Be cool if it could though.

I havent bought the game. I play it over my friends account.

To answer the rest of your questions plz read the : The "Dayz is only in development for 5 month" myth part of my last post on this side.

Edited December 29, 2013 by pogosphere

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I havent bought the game. I play it over my friends account.

 

Then fuck off.