Third person view removal from SA discussion

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You can't be spotted by someone behind a wall, if you're sitting behind a bush.

 

If you're moving tactically, traveling concealed or constantly shielding yourself with obstacles and moving fast across short open distances, someone camping on top of a roof is very easily bypassed. If you're not constantly on your toes, you'll get caught both in third and first person.

 

I don't see your point. Because people can work around others using third person, that makes it okay?

[landfish 62]

 

 

If you're moving tactically, traveling concealed or constantly shielding yourself with obstacles and moving fast across short open distances, someone camping on top of a roof is very easily bypassed. If you're not constantly on your toes, you'll get caught both in third and first person.

Here is where skills comes into the picture, if someone is using first person is camping on top of a roof, a skillful spotter can still see him and put a bullet through his head. 3rd person reduces the chance of the camper being spotted to 0% because he is really concealed yet still probably has 80% vision of an enemy who has no chance in hell of spotting him.

[gibonez 3633]

 3rd person reduces the chance of the camper being spotted to 0% because he is really concealed yet still probably has 80% vision of an enemy who has no chance in hell of spotting him.

 

yup 3rd person eliminates the chance for that person to be spotted. Its cheating.

[dallas 5195]

My point is if you act as the AIs in Dslysexhi's video in a PvP environment, standing still in open fields, walking in formation on open roads or standing exposed along walls, waiting for someone to spot you, you will indeed get shot.

 

ArmA's distances are so vast, that you simply can't spot someone stalking you from behind a corner, tree or roof. The only option you have both in first and third person is to stay in cover or constantly move unpredictably in and between objects. If you're static, you better be covered. 

 

At any point you're exposed to at least 50-100 potential positions and you simply can't control them all, all you can do is minimize your exposure and make yourself a concealed or moving target.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Dallas

[evil_this 27]

Problem is no one wants to play on first person servers.

 

And why do you think that is, Dallas?

[gibonez 3633]

 

At any point you're exposed to at least 50-100 potential positions and you simply can't control them all, all you can do is minimize your exposure and make yourself a concealed or moving target.

 

Thats why you change the ones you can control.

 

You stop the exploits you can and balance the game by removing tpv.

[landfish 62]

 

My point is if you act as the AIs in Dslysexhi's video in a PvP environment, standing still in open fields, walking in formation on open roads or standing exposed along walls, waiting for someone to spot you, you will indeed get shot.

 

ArmA's distances are so vast, that you simply can't spot someone stalking you from behind a corner, tree or roof. The only option you have both in first and third person is to stay in cover or constantly move unpredictably in and between objects. If you're static, you better be covered.

 

And my point is that, the advantage of a player should be gained by the player, not given to them with a push of a button. A stalker should have the same risks as the one being stalked when he is spotted. Right now there is literally 0 chances of being spotted when stalking anyone with 3rd person.

[gibonez 3633]

A stalker should have the same risks as the one being stalked when he is spotted. Right now there is literally 0 chances of being spotted when stalking anyone with 3rd person.

 

Couldn't of have said it any better.

 

We'll said brother.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

My point is if you act as the AIs in Dslysexhi's video in a PvP environment, standing still in open fields, walking in formation on open roads or standing exposed along walls, waiting for someone to spot you, you will indeed get shot.

 

ArmA's distances are so vast, that you simply can't spot someone stalking you from behind a corner, tree or roof. The only option you have both in first and third person is to stay in cover or constantly move unpredictably in and between objects. If you're static, you better be covered. 

 

At any point you're exposed to at least 50-100 potential positions and you simply can't control them all, all you can do is minimize your exposure and make yourself a concealed or moving target.

 

It seems irrelevant to the discussion of removing third person view. Nobody is saying removing third will make it easier to no get spotted. The point is being spotted while your spotter remains 100% hidden is a trait of third person view, removing the view, would remove that undesirable part of the game.

 

Tactics have nothing to do with it.

[evil_this 27]

 

When we say exploiting a mechanic, we mean that Dean Rocket Hall, the developer of this game, thinks looking over walls using third person view shouldn't be part of the game. Thus you're exploiting the third person view to accomplish an undesired tactic.

 

Basing your argument on the fact that people have worked this exploit into their game, is the only thing that is laughable here.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

In this reddit thread, Dean Rocket Hall, the developer of this game, says that the thinks there are a wide variety of legitimate and important uses of 3rd person perspective.  

 

It clearly needs improvement, but to say that it's an exploit is ridiculous.  It's no more of an exploit than changing video settings, turning off headbob.

[dallas 5195]

And why do you think that is, Dallas?

From my own ArmA experience, I kind of found first person view a little to unfluent and tiring. I played a lot of ArmA and quite a bit on first person servers, being part of a first person community and while it definitely has it's charm, DayZ kind of is a game, where you play long sessions and first person view fatigued me a lot faster. So I found myself enjoying myself more and longer on third person servers and therefor decreased and completely stopped playing on first person servers.

 

So while I definitely took pride in being part of a realism oriented community, I noticed, I relaxed and enjoyed myself in more casual settings. I don't player kill much in DayZ, not at all actually, so you wont really find me, camping on roof tops or peaking around corners. I also often switch to first person, because you can more easily slice and dice corners, knowing exactly when your weapon's chamber clears the corner and then react much faster.

 

I can't speak for the majority of players, I only noticed a that while first person players always presented themselves as a very large and demanding group in polls and in forum discussions, their loyalty to first person servers didn't really seem to last, when they chose servers ingame. If you filtered servers in DayZ commander,there were thousands of third person servers and only a handful of first person servers, which mostly were empty or very poorly populated.

 

 

Tactics have nothing to do with it.

I totally disagree. 

 

I think you underestimate the tactical aspect, the whole notion of presenting a difficult, unpredictable or moving target. I think PvP is very dynamic in both first and third person view and if you're not constantly changing gears and mixing it up, you'll simply get run over by faster and more tactical thinkers.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Dallas

[ninjacalypse 551]

Even when 1st person gets implemented... Most people will shoot like this including myself!

 

 

because the sensitivity is uneven.

 

We need to push for a 1:1 mouse ratio  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

Surrrrrrrrrrrrre...blame the sensitivity.  I was messing around today, did a lot of respawning for a video I was working on.  There was a guy, camping the beach on a high pop server, like a minute after I respawned, I bent down to drink some water from a small pond, he started popping bullets at me, he's like 10 feet away, scared for some reason, and must have taken like 15 bullets to kill me.  I was still for nearly the whole time while he was getting angry at the air, then stood up and walked slowly side to side and asked him if it would be easier for him to kill me if I stood very, very still.

 

Which was perfectly hilarious because that's exactly the video I was trying to get.

[wild_man 4442]

first person view is same like monster penis guy for womans ;)

 

first they thinking 'no, is not good thing too much difficult is make pleasure less too much pains' :o

 

but after when they trying is like 'my god what I was scare for, is best way for enjoy experience after pain in early moment is pure enjoy' :thumbsup:  :D

 

when player try 1st person after he thinking 'I don't go back to 2nd rate 3rd person view no more is shit' > :(

 

same like womans saying after first big penis experience 'no more pencil dick for me'  :P

Edited December 30, 2013 by KoS

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

 

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

In this reddit thread, Dean Rocket Hall, the developer of this game, says that the thinks there are a wide variety of legitimate and important uses of 3rd person perspective.  

 

It clearly needs improvement, but to say that it's an exploit is ridiculous.  It's no more of an exploit than changing video settings, turning off headbob.

 

 

He wouldn't have to say it has legitimate uses if there weren't illegitimate uses.

[phL (DayZ) 63]

first person view is same like monster penis guy for womans ;)

 

first they thinking 'no, is not good thing too much difficult is make pleasure less too much pains' :o

 

but after when they trying is like 'my god what I was scare for, is best way for enjoy experience after pain in early moment is pure enjoy' :thumbsup:  :D

 

when player try 1st person after he thinking 'I don't go back to 2nd rate 3rd person view no more is shit' > :(

 

same like womans saying after first big penis experience 'no more pencil dick for me'  :P

 

once you go black you never go back.

 

there is really not much to discuss about, just try it. learn to love the pain.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I've read all of that stuff Rocket has said about this topic. I know he's arguing the same points you guys bring up. But, I also know he's never said he won't remove it. He just says he's not convinced. So I'm arguing the pro-removal side. Hate me or whatever, it's my opinion, and until Rocket comes on here and locks these threads, I'm gonna spew it.

[tommes 331]

Dude, nobody actually dislikes using third person. Let's get that straight. Or at least, very few people dislike it to the point of where they won't ever use it. It's easier to see everything in third person. Everybody who plays DayZ has gotten used to running around in third person, because for most of us third person has always been an option.

 

The difference of opinion comes from people who think the game should be harder on the player, and then those who will fight to the death to keep this easy option. The thread questions why people want an easy option in such a hardcore game.

 

We're not trying to enforce our gameplay on you, we're trying to enforce it on everyone, including ourselves.

 

It's not about hard or easy. There's only one real point: 3rd person makes PvP combat weird. It breaks common sense and creates combat behaviour that's not just unnatural but really screwed. That distracts massively from the gaming experience of those who like plausible PvP combat and who realize the flaws of having a virtual floating all seeing eye for everybody.

 

If you either not realize or care about common sense and plausible combat then 3rd person is awesome for you.

 

So what is it? You want to play something at least remotely realistic or rather Super Mario Bros. style?

[dallas 5195]

No hate here, I just think it's a moot point and because the solution is already available, it's just not a popular one and therefor first person servers are abandoned by first person players. Third person player simply can't be asked to pay the consequence for the first person players disloyalty to their own servers.

 

All the arguments have been heard and repeated through a number of threads throughout the mod and this discussion will continue to repeat itself. 

 

Rocket has presented the solution and it follows BI's own tradition of separating the hives or in ArmA's case separating servers. I personally think it's a mistake to limit first person players to first person hives, I think first person servers would strongly benefit from being able to switch between first and third person servers without losing their progress, instead of being forced to limit themselves to the few first person servers. 

 

I just can't imagine much traffic going the other way, third person players queuing up for first person servers.

[tommes 331]

The only scenario I can see is the people who choose to be limited by first person against third Pearson is purely for PvP action. Go play a PvP FPS if you want that.

Tell me that DayZ is not a PvP FPS! Please do.

[dallas 5195]

DayZ is not a PvP FPS.

[tommes 331]

Problem is no one wants to play on first person servers.

Many want. Barely any does...because barely any does.

Basically the only thing I really can agree on with the 3rd person lovers is that the 1st person only advocates should be more consequent in the choice of their servers...but right now that is really difficult to actually do with virtually no 1st person only servers around.

[Zeppa 562]

Make it simple.
2 hives, 1st person only and 3th person enabled.

I know Im first in the "1st person only" one.

[tommes 331]

I'm worried that first person servers will end up being just like non-24/7 day servers at prime time... relatively empty.

 

I don't mind playing at night at all... except EVERYONE piles into 24/7 day servers. And because I value playing with the maximum amount of people, I mostly ignore regular servers.. which ultimately is my decision but rather sucky that I'm more or less forced into gimmicky servers because people need their hand held constantly. "ALWAYS DAYLIGHT!" "3RD PERSON GHOSTING CAM!" and eventually "200+ VEHICLES!!!!" :/

 

That's the gravity I was talking about. That's what you get when you leave them choice.

 

Is that the way it should be in a so called hardcore survival game? Survival usually means you don't have much choice and you have to deal with the fucking situation you are thrown in not you choose the situation which you can survive best.

[tommes 331]

In other Words " I play DayZ only for PVP Gaming this is why i think this MMO is a FPS Game.

 

DayZ is a FPS and has PvP in it by design. It is based on a game based around military action that is supposed to be played mostly in first person view.

Whatever you think DayZ is, it's not. It's a sandbox. It's Rocket's sandbox. Not what you want it to be. You can't talk the FPS and the PvP out of DayZ. It's there by design and it's a core concept. Third person view is the side effect. Not the cause. Your argument is invalid and with that incredibly stupid...as most pro TPV arguments are in the long run because as much first person only arguments ar solely for fair and plausible PvP combat so are pro third person arguments solely of personal comfort.

[tommes 331]

Ill stick to my third person. I enjoy running around in third, thanks. I don't combat in third. If 3rd was removed from this game, I don't even know if I could play this game anymore tbh.

 

Well, at least you would find out pretty quickly.

 

In my experience, most people can, if they have to. It's no bigger deal than any other FPS game...ok...maybe a little. FPV in Arma2 and DayZ just doesn't feel as smooth as in other games. But I guess that could be fixed.

Edited December 30, 2013 by tommes