Bring back weapon lengths obscuring your movement indoors.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

The things is its just adding shit for the sake of adding shit. When i said instantly i meant very fast ...think about it in real life your in a small hall way and have the rifle in your hands and holding it horizontally and turn around but as you turn around you instantly notice the wall and send signals to your brain to quickly move your weapon in a vertical or almost vertical position as it will hit a wall if you don't. That message is instant and you carry out and complete that action within a few seconds ...a rifle isn't heavy enough to add several seconds to doing this and that's just common sense and not just a view held because of watching streamlined arcadey video games as you put it.

 

In a game your cant replicate this kind of thing especially in the arma engine as its so slow and clumsy ...you would have to think of the gun your using then think about the way you would have to move your character and then the button you would have to press to change the way your character is holding his weapon then you would have to actually carry out the action of pressing the button then having to wait for the character to then carry out and complete the animation/action and all this takes way too long and just makes the game feel painfully slow and unrealistic.

 

Anyways the topic is moot as the OP seems to think people move around holding guns only horizontally in tight spaces lol.

It takes you way longer to turn around in a tight hallway with a giant rifle with a bayonet at the end than a tiny pistol does. Period.

[JESUSARIUS REX (DayZ) 163]

I never liked getting stuck on walls in arma II. It's just as unrealistic as bringing collision back. What do people do when they want to turn around irl? they move they're weapon, which is hard to simulate on a video game. not to mention it makes clearing rooms impossible, because you can't strafe sideways through the door to peak around it.

Edited December 22, 2013 by JESUSARIUS REX

[St. Jimmy 1631]

How does it make sense to be able to swing a long ass rifle with a bayonet attached to the end inside of a little tiny hallway? It doesn't.

 

This needs to come back so that players are forced to make more tactical decisions about what weapon they carry on them and what weapon they use in doors.

 

If you have a long rifle you need to be forced to switch to a sidearm inside, or carry a more compact weapon. This changes the rules of engagement and makes it so that not one gun will rule them all in the game. you shouldn't be allowed the best of both worlds, both inside and outside engagements.

I'm not against this but I can live without it. 

 

Weapon lenght collision simulation was never in Arma so it can't make a comeback ;)

Edited December 22, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[wolfsburg62 66]

Or how bout not..... Your standard 16" AR will clear buildings just fine. If you have a bayonet on an already long ass Mosin its not too difficult to just flip that shit upwards when going through doors. I dont know about you, but if the DayZ scenario were real, I sure as hell wouldnt switch to a pistol over my AR "just because its too long". That's just not smart.

[burneddi 13]

not to mention it makes clearing rooms impossible, because you can't strafe sideways through the door to peak around it.

This was actually possible with the ArmA2 collision.

 

In reality, when entering through doorways, you don't strafe through them sideways. You approach it along the wall, then turn towards the doorway, stick your gun through it, step through it while checking the side of the room opposite to you, then immediately turn to face the side of the room you approached it from.

 

You can replicate this maneuver with the gun collision very well, and it's not even difficult. Just never try strafing through the door and you're pretty much golden.

 

 

 

Weapon lenght collision simulation was never in Arma so it can't make a comeback ;)

Actually, it was. Many variations of DayZ used a config that removed it to make maneuvering inside easier for people who were not aware of the weapon collision.

 

 

Or how bout not..... Your standard 16" AR will clear buildings just fine. If you have a bayonet on an already long ass Mosin its not too difficult to just flip that shit upwards when going through doors. I dont know about you, but if the DayZ scenario were real, I sure as hell wouldnt switch to a pistol over my AR "just because its too long". That's just not smart.

I never really had issues using ARs indoors in ArmA2, anyway. It gets really easy as soon as you figure out strafing through doorways doesn't really work -- and I don't know about you, but the doorways in my house aren't really wide enough to allow a person to comfortably pass through sideways holding a raised assault rifle.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dejecaal

[-Gews- 7443]

I dont know about you, but if the DayZ scenario were real, I sure as hell wouldnt switch to a pistol over my AR "just because its too long". That's just not smart.

 

But a Mosin?

 

I'd much rather be using a .45 than a 5-1/2 foot long bolt action rifle + bayonet.

 

 

 

 

 

They just need to find a way of making it feel less janky, because most players didn't like the ArmA 2 weapon collision and complain as if it's a bug.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Actually, it was. Many variations of DayZ used a config that removed it to make maneuvering inside easier for people who were not aware of the weapon collision.

There was collision but it was the same no matter if you had M107 or a M1911. I've an album  about this. The last picture shows that you couldn't get your back any more closer to the wall.

The mod used in the later state st_movement but it only reduced this collision.

[burneddi 13]

There was collision but it was the same no matter if you had M107 or a M1911. I've an album  about this. The last picture shows that you couldn't get your back any more closer to the wall.

The mod used in the later state st_movement but it only reduced this collision.

Ah, alright. That really is a lazy way of doing it. I usually just tried to never strafe indoors, and could get by just fine without getting stuck in doorways.

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

It takes you way longer to turn around in a tight hallway with a giant rifle with a bayonet at the end than a tiny pistol does. Period.

 

Of course it fucking does ....did i say it didn't ? no i didn't so wtf are you even talking about.... what i was saying is we shouldn't be forced to use a fucking pistol because you have some odd assumption that people only hold guns horizontally in real life when in tight spaces when that's just not true AT ALL ...as i said before they would hold it in a vertical position or any position really just as long as it didn't hit a wall when turning.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Massicor

[zreks 14]

this is good however it shouldnt restrict you from turning that would be annoying

 

instead what should happen is whenever you are too close to a wall you would lower your gun or raise it up depending on its type that way you wouldnt be able to fire when too close

 

but also it wouldnt annoy the shit out of people and wouldnt make your gun useless if you didnt actually have a sidearm. also it would be more realistic... because i sure as hell would keep my shotgun up

 

while going into a building where there could be zombies instead of switching to my useless pistol and i wouldnt get stuck in walls while turning like an idiot...

 

if someone was in that corridor with you right next to you so you cant aim a long gun at him, switch to your pistol obviously.

 

(i still see flaws in this method however.. like peeking from corners so you can see and your gun getting lowered

 

while trying to shoot that guy looting that dead guy ESPECIALLY with first person, this would probably just slow things down)

Edited December 22, 2013 by Zreks

[Katana67 2907]

Of course it fucking does ....did i say it didn't ? no i didn't so wtf are you even talking about.... what i was saying is we shouldn't be forced to use a fucking pistol because you have some odd assumption that people only hold guns horizontally in real life when in tight spaces when that's just not true AT ALL ...as i said before they would hold it in a vertical position or any position really just as long as it didn't hit a wall when turning.

 

Nobody's forcing you to do anything. You can still use long weapons indoors, they'll just be more cumbersome. Whereas if one uses a weapon designed for CQC, it will function as such.

 

He's not assuming that in the real world people only hold their weapons horizontally. He's dealing with the in-game paradigm of our characters having a fixed "weapon ready" stance. Either way, as he's articulated, negotiating a CQ situation is far more cumbersome using a Mosin than a weapon explicitly designed for CQC. Such a differential isn't accurately represented in-game.

 

Assigning appropriate levels of usefulness to weapons makes all of the sense in the world to me.

 

Until "vertical positioning" is simulated (which would require a massive effort in animation, rendering the optics/irons, and overall development), as you say, we will have to deal with the current (and previous) system of weapon lengths dictating collision.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Katana67

[burneddi 13]

as i said before they would hold it in a vertical position or any position really just as long as it didn't hit a wall when turning.

Yes, and as people have said before, a feature like this should be implemented into the game. In fact, it already exists -- you press spacebar, it lowers your weapon, no tricks, no hassle. What you're essentially saying, because in real life you would lower your weapon or keep it vertical, in DayZ weapons should be able to pass through walls. Makes perfect sense!

 

What exactly is so difficult to understand here?

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Nobody's forcing you to do anything. You can still use long weapons indoors, they'll just be more cumbersome. Whereas if one uses a weapon designed for CQC, it will function as such.

 

He's not assuming that in the real world people only hold their weapons horizontally. He's dealing with the in-game paradigm of our characters having a fixed "weapon ready" stance. Either way, as he's articulated, negotiating a CQ situation is far more cumbersome using a Mosin than a weapon explicitly designed for CQC. Such a differential isn't accurately represented in-game.

 

Assigning appropriate levels of usefulness to weapons makes all of the sense in the world to me.

 

Until "vertical positioning" is simulated (which would require a massive effort in animation, rendering the optics/irons, and overall development), as you say, we will have to deal with the current (and previous) system of weapon lengths dictating collision.

 

No ...hes forcing me to use a pistol to move around freely in tight spaces when at current i can freely move around tight spaces with any weapon ....the way it should be ...i didnt even read past the first 6 words you wrote as you obviously don't understand the situation here and haven't read all my posts.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Massicor

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

No ...hes forcing me to use a pistol to move around freely in tight spaces when at current i can freely move around tight spaces with any weapon ....the way it should be ...i didnt even read past the first 6 words you wrote as you obviously don't understand the situation here and haven't read all my posts.

>I don't read my opponent's argument because I'm lazy

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Yes, and as people have said before, a feature like this should be implemented into the game. In fact, it already exists -- you press spacebar, it lowers your weapon, no tricks, no hassle. What you're essentially saying, because in real life you would lower your weapon or keep it vertical, in DayZ weapons should be able to pass through walls. Makes perfect sense!

 

What exactly is so difficult to understand here?

 

You really are dumb fs.....ill inform you one final time you complete moron and if you cant comprehend something so simple then there's no helping you so i wont try.

 

Take into consideration everything i explained in all of my previous posts on this thread.

 

This feature should not be added as its just simply very unrealistic to have manoeuvre the way you want us to...thereby forcing us to use a pistol to manoeuvre tight spaces when we shouldnt have to plain and simple. Also yes im saying that because in real life you would manoeuvre properly to not hit your guns off a wall or whatever ...that dayz weapons should be able to pass through walls....why ? because in this game with the arma engine ....buildings arent scaled properly to reflect real word buildings size and space or your characters size and many other things that in turn causes your players weapons to poke through walls and shit.  So allowing weapons to poke through walls is a way of compensating for these character and building scales.

 

God.... use your fucking brain.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Max Planck
No more insults, please. 3 days suspension.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Derp.

 

That is also an issue. The amount of crap you have on your body should also restrict your movement.

You just said Alpha in King of kongs topic.

[RagNoRock 2]

Swing in a sense of turning around indoors. How would you possible be able to turn around with a huge bayonet stuck to a Mosin? That combined is >2.5m already - there's no possible way to turn around indoors.

You would pull the gun in closer to you, pointing it up or down while you turn dynamically.  In real life you don't hold a long thing out in front of you all the time and be like "HOW I TURN AROUND!! Guess I need to put this on my back before I can turn around..."  You would just shift it's position...

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

You would pull the gun in closer to you, pointing it up or down while you turn dynamically.  In real life you don't hold a long thing out in front of you all the time and be like "HOW I TURN AROUND!! Guess I need to put this on my back before I can turn around..."  You would just shift it's position...

 

WELLDONE SIR ...I wanted to blow my fucking brains out because some of these complete morons couldn't comprehend something so simple.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Massicor

[burneddi 13]

You would pull the gun in closer to you, pointing it up or down while you turn dynamically.  In real life you don't hold a long thing out in front of you all the time and be like "HOW I TURN AROUND!! Guess I need to put this on my back before I can turn around..."  You would just shift it's position...

How many times do I have to spell it out for you? You don't have to put your weapon on your back in standalone. You literally only have to press space to lower it. It takes less than a second, and you can do it while turning or moving.

[beardedcap 22]

Fuck this whole thread. Isn't the movement clunky enough through doorways now? Sometimes I can't even turn around in a hallway without my weapon impeding me. Hell, sometimes it's hard enough to walk straight through a doorway. Do you people seriously walk through the buildings in this game and go: "gee, I wish it was harder to maneuver in here." There are too many morons on this forum suggesting ideas like this who have no grasp of the constraints of the game engine. You think the developers can just do a little coding for your OMG SO REALISTIC ideas

Edited December 22, 2013 by beardedcap

[icedon 5]

It's not "adding shit for the sake of adding shit". Being able to run around unobstructed indoors with your 4-foot Mosin with a footlong bayonet attached to its muzzle is part the reason people are able to play this game like an arcade deathmatch shooter with zombies. It also reduces the effectiveness of short guns like submachine guns, pistols, shotguns (especially sawed-off ones) etc, as they lose one of their advantages compared to long rifles.

 

As I've said numerous times in this thread, by pressing spacebar you can lower and raise your weapon at will. You can do this in any position, while walking and running, and the animation is very fast. As I've also stated numerous times, the idea of weapons having collision except when in the lowered position sounds very good to me. As you have repeatedly shown in your replies here, you seem to completely ignore this idea.

 

This.

[Max Planck 7174]

Keep it on topic please, and without insults.

 

 

You really are dumb fs.....ill inform you one final time you complete moron and if you cant comprehend something so simple then there's no helping you so i wont try.

 

And you can take a little timeout.

Please come back better.

[kichilron 8550]

You would pull the gun in closer to you, pointing it up or down while you turn dynamically.  In real life you don't hold a long thing out in front of you all the time and be like "HOW I TURN AROUND!! Guess I need to put this on my back before I can turn around..."  You would just shift it's position...

 

 

WELLDONE SIR ...I wanted to blow my fucking brains out because some of these complete morons couldn't comprehend something so simple.

 

 

I do realise that you could do that, if it were an M4 that wouldn't fit sideways. But I was talking about a 2.5m long Mosin - as it has a Bayonet attached.

 

You can turn it all the way you want, you'll not be able to turn that thing around.

[Mos1ey 6301]

In real life you could simply alter the way that you were holding the rifle to allow you to move through a doorway, I don't see this adding anything to the game other than inconvenience.

[burneddi 13]

In real life you could simply alter the way that you were holding the rifle to allow you to move through a doorway, I don't see this adding anything to the game other than inconvenience.

If the rifle is longer than the doorway is wide, no matter how you alter the way you are holding it, it will not fit through the doorway and be ready to fire. Key here is "ready to fire", as the point of this discussion is that it should be impossible to keep very long rifles in a firing position while maneuvering in confined spaces. In this context, "Ready to fire" means the gun's buttstock is pressed firmly against the operator's shoulder, and it is aimed more or less horizontally ready to fire upon any potential targets.

The common doorway is something like 36", or about 90cm wide. The length of an M4 carbine is 33", or 84cm. The thickness of your average survivor shoulder fully clad can be approximated to something like 15-20cm or so. As such, simple maths tells us that a raised (butt to shoulder, barrel horizontal) M4 carbine+survivor would be about a metre thick at the shoulder, more so when wearing a backpack.

Now, let's apply some more basic arithmetic. A metre (that is, 100cm) is a greater length than the 90cm hole that is the doorway. Thus, roughly 10cm of either survivor or gun will collide with the door frame or the wall. In laymans terms, the gun will not fit through the doorway sideways while raised and ready to fire.

"But Dejecaal", you may say, "in reality you wouldn't sidestrafe through the door"

You are exactly right! And were gun collisions properly implemented in DayZ, you wouldn't sidestrafe through the door in-game either! You would go face (and gun) forward through the door. In this scenario, as the gun is perpendicular to the doorway even if it is raised, the weapon's length does not matter, and because a survivor's shoulder width is considerably less than 90cm, you can comfortably maneuver through the door and be on your merry way. Exactly like in reality!

"But hey Dejecaal", you'd probably continue, "what if I want to turn around in a 90cm wide space with my M4 carbine?"

Oh, but that is simple. You press 'spacebar'. That is the wide rectangular button in the central bottom area of your keyboard. In DayZ standalone, pressing this key lowers your weapon with a fluid, swift animation that does not interrupt your movement or force your character to a standstill for its duration. Were weapon collision implemented, logically, while your weapon is lowered it wouldn't collide with stuff, as has been suggested numerous times by me and many other people in this thread. Genius! And very close to how you would maneuver indoors in reality!

Now, if any of you pumpkins have any further confusion or questions on the matter, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be more than glad to reply. Just try to form a coherent post that addresses the points (re-)stated in this post, so that this discussion may actually move onwards, as a healthy discussion should.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dejecaal