How can we make a players life more important than his gear?

[Dutter 0]

This is my first post so I'll start off by saying, "Hello world!"

I was reading this post, scanning some of the ideas, which were pretty awesome if I might add (the creativity in some people).  ^_^
Anyway, as some survivors had stated before, as of now the gear that you possess is what makes your character. If I'm understanding the 
post-makers scenario correctly, the issue is finding worth as a survivor more than just being a pack rat whom's chase for goods is
never ending (especially when being caught by tricky cats). <_<

I like the idea of a "perks" system. If a player likes running laps around the map, give him a little buff. Oh, whats that? You like giving people band aids? Boom, you can apply them quicker. I don't believe these should be permanent however, and should be maintained and worked for. Not any of that runescape crap (Sorry runescape fans, gotta keep the players interested). I believe having different survivors with different perks would welcome more cooperation in the game. Who knows, it might be able to shine a little beam of sympathy towards a bandit to give mercy. (Who am I kidding, people don't give a shit  :P).

The DayZ life ain't easy, the struggles real! A little buff would but nice, makes people feel special. :blush:

[serenityrick 218]

I love the idea of getting proficient in skills the longer you survive and the more you use items or do certain things.

 

The first time you kill an animal and skin it and gut it should be a messy failure. You only get 1 piece of meat out of it, any leather you may have gained is tattered and useless.

Second time; similar story.

Third time, you get some leather.

Fourth time you may fail again

Fifth time you get more meat

Sixth time you perfect it and get the max amount of meat and leather, etc etc.

 

Same goes for bandages or anything medical related. While you can't flat out fail bandaging someone or giving someone pills, the more you use these the quicker you are at using them. Perhaps the more effective they are (at least in the case of bandages).

 

Nothing super fancy or anything. There shouldn't even be a GUI for how much you've learned. You should just know "okay I've hunted quite a bit and I'm now really good at skinning and gutting animals". And the next time you're taken hostage, maybe you'll plead for your life a little bit more. Or be more careful around populated areas.

 

Personally, i don't necessarily need something else to give me motivation to stay alive. Even if I'm taken hostage and I'm being robbed of everything I own and I know I'm just going to be executed at the end of it, I still play it out because it's fun. It's those type of stories that are fun to re-tell even if it ends badly. That may just be me though.

 

But having a little bit extra motivation to want to live other than your gear, especially if you're being robbed, is a GREAT idea regardless.

[combatcomm1 234]

It all comes down to realistic character building. Like others have suggested, reading books to further medical expertise, survival books, doing things. That is all 100% realistic. No one is "born" knowing how to effectively stop arterial bleeding! Trust me. I didn't know squat about Combat Application Tourniquets or pressure points before joining the military. 

 

Classes and such are way OUT. That is NOT Dayz and is overly gamey. There is no magic limiter on the knoledge I can posess and the only things limiting my physical skills are genetics and such but that can be overcome to a degree. 

[Xer0graV 13]

Skill tree = the knockoff. Nough said really. 

[brampower 19]

Adding value to a life will only make it more fun for bandits to kill others (they love the fact that they just ruined your day), and it will make other people more paranoid since they don't want to lose their character. This leads to shoot first, ask questions later.

It will definitely not help with KoSing. It will only make it worse.

[Gdaddy22 299]

Adding value to a life will only make it more fun for bandits to kill others (they love the fact that they just ruined your day), and it will make other people more paranoid since they don't want to lose their character. This leads to shoot first, ask questions later.

It will definitely not help with KoSing. It will only make it worse.

 

Yet again, we're not trying to reduce KoS in this thread, adding a value to player's life and trying to reduce KoS are 2 different things so *insert samuel l. jackson gif here*

 

I like the idea of ranks very much. Let's say after surviving for x day we will gain a rank of Veteran. For killing more than 100 zombies we become a zombie slayer, for killing x people we will become a murderer, for helping x people we become heroes. Could other players see our rank ? I vote for yes. Maybe some people will say that it will suck that other people will see that you are a murder and they will instantly kill you, but this is what follows kiling everyone around, you're a murder, - you will have a hard time finding friendly people. Everything would be reseted when player dies

 

Also besides this and skills, we could use some rewards system. For example, if we are born to killing people on sight, after achieving some high number of players killed, we get a special mask that would give us a little bonus for our "profession" like -5% to damaging the equipment when shooting at player. Heroes would get a hero mask, that could give you a bonus of faster bloodbaging, a zombie slayer would get something else, it's all debatable, this is just a basic idea.

 

For all people who will rant at me for making it unrealistic - Get over it, we can't just make eveything realistic, its still JUST A GAME, we need to add some content that would make the game better, even if it isn't just like in real life. Also just think that a bandit who killed many people becomes skilled in his job so he knows how to shoot people so the eq becomes less damaged, cheers.

 

All I'm trying to do is to add something to the game that would make it less boring, and so the game has much more to offer to a player, and so that we will be able to work not only on our gear, but also on our character, so the game will keep you playing for much longer

Edited December 24, 2013 by Gdaddy22

[Gdaddy22 299]

damn double post

Edited December 24, 2013 by Gdaddy22

[Aeoneth 163]

3 simple words.

 

K/D ratio.  Make is viewable in the (P)layers menu and people will always want to live to keep their precious K/D ratio high.  Keep it a life time record and generally people will do everything in their power to live. 

Yes this will increase KoS bandits but that's a different issue. One that cannot be beaten by giving stuff on "level up".

[twingunz 308]

I don't think their should be any value stats wise or anything based on the players character just like real life in game we are measured by worth (possessions) that's the reality of the world and dayz's system at the moment is a perfect reflection of that as it is how it is and would be in the real world, if you don't know someone else and they have what you want need do you value more their possessions or the strangers life?

It's up to us to value our own life with the stories and experiences our character has (just as i value my own life based on my real world experiences good and bad without them life is meaningless as what happens when we die our possessions get divided up, that's life) and it's up to others to judge us based on what we have, just as it is in the real world it's a shallow, shallow place.

so deep lol

[Gdaddy22 299]

3 simple words.

 

K/D ratio.  Make is viewable in the (P)layers menu and people will always want to live to keep their precious K/D ratio high.  Keep it a life time record and generally people will do everything in their power to live. 

Yes this will increase KoS bandits but that's a different issue. One that cannot be beaten by giving stuff on "level up".

 

K/D ratio ? What else ? Perks and chopper after 7 kills streak ?

[Jamz 253]

I don't think their should be any value stats wise or anything based on the players character just like real life in game we are measured by worth (possessions) that's the reality of the world and dayz's system at the moment is a perfect reflection of that as it is how it is and would be in the real world, if you don't know someone else and they have what you want need do you value more their possessions or the strangers life?

It's up to us to value our own life with the stories and experiences our character has (just as i value my own life based on my real world experiences good and bad without them life is meaningless as what happens when we die our possessions get divided up, that's life) and it's up to others to judge us based on what we have, just as it is in the real world it's a shallow, shallow place.

so deep lol

 

I think it's more about your in game value to yourself, rather than to others. A way for people to want to keep their present guy (or girl) alive rather than to just say wtf and start over. A way to encourage self preservation in an environment where a single life has no real value, if you like.

 

That human instinct to survive operates when all hope is almost gone and one faces an ultimate end - a situation a computer game could never simulate. an artificial reason to survive might be able to just enhance that degree of adrenaline fueled desperation.

[Xer0graV 13]

3 simple words.

 

K/D ratio.  Make is viewable in the (P)layers menu and people will always want to live to keep their precious K/D ratio high.  Keep it a life time record and generally people will do everything in their power to live. 

Yes this will increase KoS bandits but that's a different issue. One that cannot be beaten by giving stuff on "level up".

I seriously threw up in my mouth a little bit. You bought the wrong game man. 

[twingunz 308]

I think it's more about your in game value to yourself, rather than to others. A way for people to want to keep their present guy (or girl) alive rather than to just say wtf and start over. A way to encourage self preservation in an environment where a single life has no real value, if you like.

 

That human instinct to survive operates when all hope is almost gone and one faces an ultimate end - a situation a computer game could never simulate. an artificial reason to survive might be able to just enhance that degree of adrenaline fueled desperation.

Thats true and also sort of what i was touching on too i mean when our char does die if we walk away with a story to tell that is value right there, his life although now gone was valuable and if hes lived a long time and had many funny interactions or close encounters with other players that to me is what makes me strive to keep him alive. 

Our chars live and they die and we hold the memories, a player who doesn't care about his character I doubt cares about a level grind I'm presume everyone here does care about there chars because they're discussing this and want even more however my personal opinion (not saying i'm wrong or right) on this is if you turn this survival game into a grinding stat based game with character progression that scares and sounds horrible to me, as it will create a leveling mentality look at all games with levels and stats (i play far to many of them but thats not what i want for this game) it's all a race to max out and when you reach it you're done and you leave and things seem more tedious and less valuable you'll not care about your char but care about your stats they're 2 different things.

Leave levels stats perks to the fallouts WoWs and skyrims this is a game about survival and human interactions, I just think people are looking at this the wrong way.

Edited December 25, 2013 by twingunz

[Xer0graV 13]

Thats true and also sort of what i was touching on too i mean when our char does die if we walk away with a story to tell that is value right there, his life although now gone was valuable and if hes lived a long time and had many funny interactions or close encounters with other players that to me is what makes me strive to keep him alive. 

Our chars live and they die and we hold the memories, a player who doesn't care about his character I doubt cares about a level grind I'm presume everyone here does care about there chars because they're discussing this and want even more however my personal opinion (not saying i'm wrong or right) on this is if you turn this survival game into a grinding stat based game with character progression that scares and sounds horrible to me, as it will create a leveling mentality look at all games with levels and stats (i play far to many of them but thats not what i want for this game) it's all a race to max out and when you reach it you're done and you leave and things seem more tedious and less valuable you'll not care about your char but care about your stats they're 2 different things.

Leave levels stats perks to the fallouts WoWs and skyrims this is a game about survival and human interactions, I just think people are looking at this the wrong way.

You sir, nailed it to the wall. This game is unique, please keep it that way. Rocket once referred to it as the " anti game", so fans of the norm are in for some disappointment. 

Edited December 25, 2013 by Xer0graV

[enaver 25]

If it worked how Ultima Online works with proficiencies  then that would be fine with me.

[soulfirez 901]

Thats true and also sort of what i was touching on too i mean when our char does die if we walk away with a story to tell that is value right there, his life although now gone was valuable and if hes lived a long time and had many funny interactions or close encounters with other players that to me is what makes me strive to keep him alive. 

Our chars live and they die and we hold the memories, a player who doesn't care about his character I doubt cares about a level grind I'm presume everyone here does care about there chars because they're discussing this and want even more however my personal opinion (not saying i'm wrong or right) on this is if you turn this survival game into a grinding stat based game with character progression that scares and sounds horrible to me, as it will create a leveling mentality look at all games with levels and stats (i play far to many of them but thats not what i want for this game) it's all a race to max out and when you reach it you're done and you leave and things seem more tedious and less valuable you'll not care about your char but care about your stats they're 2 different things.

Leave levels stats perks to the fallouts WoWs and skyrims this is a game about survival and human interactions, I just think people are looking at this the wrong way.

Good sentiment there but the other side of the coin is many people think your looking at it the wrong way.

 

I have read many of your posts and have seen you want realisim which is strange because in real life there is a broad type and i hate to call it that but a skill tree i dont spawn into life and have all the skills i need to do what i want i dont go hey today im a doctor i can blood bag anyone with no risk involved skills are learnt from doing things (or training which hard to simulate in game).

 

With things like this even rocket wants to make systems like medical more complicated well one simple way is a broad skill tree but one would start it from a negative (again ill use medical and blood bagging as an example) the first time i blood bag i have no idea what i am doing and as such have say a 50%(just a random stat would need to be balanced) of stuffing it up how that stuff up relates could be along the lines of 10% death to patient due air bubble on failure 20% chance of infecting patient so he will then need to deal with illness etc insert other possible failures here.

 

The second time you do it the chance to fail is greatly reduced and the ultra bad failure results are greatly reduced (the last guy i failed died from air bubble i know not to do that again but you still might your not a doctor nurse etc) and this continues till chance of failure (which should always be there) and eventually you get a very small chance of failure but now also do it slightly (and i mean slighlty) faster or even slightly more effective(can drain blood with less blood removed from donor and slightly more given to patient.

 

Insert this idea into many game mechanics bang your character has more value than just his loot and do none of this in a visible way no visible skill tree now going hey i am now lvl2 what ever what ever you dont know this you just know hmm i seem to do this with alot less stuff ups now.

 

Presto realisim value to life no grinding for skills greatly as the cheap reward of seeing your lvl what ever is not there but a deep game mechanic setting the game further apart from some cheap pvp clone with zeds thrown in .....

 

But you have my beans for an intelligent and non offensive post even if i dont agree with you cause adding in this with it negatives start would make the game far harder to  survive heck it may even have people interact more i can see it now a new level of back stabbing eg hey mate you any good at fixing guns answer yes been doing guns for ages (lies never worked on gun) ill fix it for you usues gun breaks it in attempt to repair LOL oh sorry mate shite happens...

[mike10019314@yahoo.ca 3]

 mechanic and gun smith/gun maintenance skill's is something i would like to see,if everyons guns wear from use then a person with that skill will be worth more than any amount of loot they could have on them, evne more so if he can repair damaged mag's and combine 2 or 3 ruined ones to make a new whole one.

 

same for mechanic if hes the only one who can fix engine damage on a server it would be worth your time or loot to hire him to fix something for you or to kidnap him and force him to do the same.

 

skills could be gained by ether reading rare skill book's or by doing the task over and over till you get better, could be broken down even further, a guy who reads how to fix a honda civic in the instruction manual would still have no idea how to fix a heli engine unless he poked around at one for a long while

 

 

edit (SoulFirez said it much better than i ever can

Edited December 25, 2013 by unmovingtarget

[Xer0graV 13]

Permadeath does not mix well traditional mmo or twitch shooter progression. Any persistent progression after death would be game breaking to Dayz, and your not going to live long enough to progress a profession. You are what you are in this game, and you make your own mark. Case and point... Doctor Feelgood from Dayz mod.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Xer0graV

[dnk 18]

3 simple words.

 

K/D ratio.  Make is viewable in the (P)layers menu and people will always want to live to keep their precious K/D ratio high.  Keep it a life time record and generally people will do everything in their power to live. 

Yes this will increase KoS bandits but that's a different issue. One that cannot be beaten by giving stuff on "level up".

 

People will do everything in their power to kill and camp. You don't get a high K/D by being passive and long-lived...

[Tizzle 90]

I agree in that i really see no value in my life aside from just a transportation method for my gear. If ever I was confronted by a group of bandits, i would take my chances and try to kill them before getting handcuffed and losing all my gear

[soulfirez 901]

Permadeath does not mix well traditional mmo or twitch shooter progression. Any persistent progression after death would be game breaking to Dayz, and your not going to live long enough to progress a profession. You are what you are in this game, and you make your own mark. Case and point... Doctor Feelgood from Dayz mod.

your not going to live long ?? depends on your definition of long does having one character since after the wipe consitute living long when considering 4 hours a day play ?? With some character progression (again not visible no skill trees to see to grind skills just a natural getting slightly better as you do normal things again starting from a negative now anyone can bag if they have right blood) you might actually value your life die less be less likely to seek out pvp any chance you get cause your loss is now that much bigger.

 

It wont stop pvp or KOS but will make it more dangerous risk reward just got bigger ( the risk got bigger the reward didnt ) think about your actions care about surviving not ah well spawn again ill be geared in under an hour lets kill anyone i see LOL.

 

I just see the resent against such an idea and can only think thats because people like to constantly pvp and its easy to respawn and wouldnt if it ment lossing more than they could get back in an hour by hitting a mil base. I want PvP i want even the odd crazy KOSer adds to the flavour (not when everyone is doing it)

Edited December 25, 2013 by SoulFirez

[twingunz 308]

Good sentiment there but the other side of the coin is many people think your looking at it the wrong way.

 

I have read many of your posts and have seen you want realism which is strange because in real life there is a broad type and i hate to call it that but a skill tree i dont spawn into life and have all the skills i need to do what i want i dont go hey today im a doctor i can blood bag anyone with no risk involved skills are learnt from doing things (or training which hard to simulate in game).

 

With things like this even rocket wants to make systems like medical more complicated well one simple way is a broad skill tree but one would start it from a negative (again ill use medical and blood bagging as an example) the first time i blood bag i have no idea what i am doing and as such have say a 50%(just a random stat would need to be balanced) of stuffing it up how that stuff up relates could be along the lines of 10% death to patient due air bubble on failure 20% chance of infecting patient so he will then need to deal with illness etc insert other possible failures here.

 

The second time you do it the chance to fail is greatly reduced and the ultra bad failure results are greatly reduced (the last guy i failed died from air bubble i know not to do that again but you still might your not a doctor nurse etc) and this continues till chance of failure (which should always be there) and eventually you get a very small chance of failure but now also do it slightly (and i mean slighlty) faster or even slightly more effective(can drain blood with less blood removed from donor and slightly more given to patient.

 

Insert this idea into many game mechanics bang your character has more value than just his loot and do none of this in a visible way no visible skill tree now going hey i am now lvl2 what ever what ever you dont know this you just know hmm i seem to do this with alot less stuff ups now.

 

Presto realisim value to life no grinding for skills greatly as the cheap reward of seeing your lvl what ever is not there but a deep game mechanic setting the game further apart from some cheap pvp clone with zeds thrown in .....

 

But you have my beans for an intelligent and non offensive post even if i dont agree with you cause adding in this with it negatives start would make the game far harder to  survive heck it may even have people interact more i can see it now a new level of back stabbing eg hey mate you any good at fixing guns answer yes been doing guns for ages (lies never worked on gun) ill fix it for you usues gun breaks it in attempt to repair LOL oh sorry mate shite happens...

Honestly this is why i like this forum there are smart people with opinions and it's not all just i am right you are wrong people discuss their view not attack and force their views, as right and wrong are completely subjective and a lot (not all) but a lot here seem to get that also have my beans for disagreeing with me but providing a good counter debate haha.

I see what you're saying i still do not agree just because as soon as you put in a dice roll people are going to get mad as you're taking control away from the user if i insert an IV drip into myself in game and all the gear is pristine and then i die and lose everything because the dice gods said 'you shall not pass' that will break my spirit and make me not want to play i mean on damaged items yes have a chance of getting sick or causing bleeding but it should all be gear dependant and never be an instant kill roll let me die by my hand by my mistakes and if junkies can inject themselves (the lowest form of human intelligence lol) and not kill themselves i feel i can also put a needle into my vain and not kill myself.

As for the medical system i feel knowledge should be power and at the moment i feel it is (but still should be harder) like i pick something up it's obviously a medical item but i have no clue when or why i should use it however someone that does know what it is and what it's for is going to have an advantage over me, really it's the same thing as the accuracy debate going on at the moment a random dice roll telling me when a shot is a hit or a miss under the exact same conditions is just not reflective of the real world (Again looking at this as an apocalypse simulator) it should be based on my skill as the player not the random pattern guns are producing now all skills in this game should be skill based on the player a player who can judge wind speed with a shot, a player who has medical knowledge a player who has hunting tracking knowledge a player that has survival knowledge should have an advantage in those situations not have to be at the mercy of the dice roll.

I like DayZ mod and i like DayZ SA i just feel leveling systems have never had a place here and should remain away, every other zombie game already essentially has a leveling system why take the magic away from this game and make it generic as the rest.

[gloriousgonzo (DayZ) 4]

Should be mostly bragging rights stuff like beard styles and hairstyles.

i do like the idea of gaining some little perks after some hours of being alive. nothing game changing though.

Edited December 25, 2013 by gloriousgonzo

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

We need more stuff that can't be taken away from us. For example, add some immunization shots that are rare, but once the player has taken them they'll be immune to certain diseases. Respawning will put you at risk again.

 

Another strategy would be to make peoples storage devices disappear on death. So you can't just respawn and run back to your tent full of gear. You have to talk you way out of bad situations and run back to it.

 

Yet another idea for this is to start the players off in a bad situation. Maybe you spawn with a sickness and it takes a while to fight it off before you're stable enough to do whatever.

[wgaf 251]

One of the reasons we pick approaches to Balota to shoot people is that people consider the spawns near balota to be best, since they need to go to belota to get guns. 

 

Shooting recent spawns and ungeared people on the Balota approaches does the most harm, since it makes them respawn, and the danger is they'll spawn far away. 

 

I like any idea that makes people value their lives. It gives them more to lose when we kill them. 

 

The thing that makes dayz so special is that its high stakes. Hours of effort can be wasted when you're killed, which makes the whole dynamic of trust in the game that much more realistic and appealing. 

 

I strongly support anything that makes death more high stakes. 

 

Dayz is Human Nature Simulator. Anything to make the risks and rewards more like the ones people would face in real life makes the game better, and more special. 

Edited December 25, 2013 by Azmjs