December Round-up: ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE SA

[Wayze 549]

Make DMR super rare, that's enough.

[Sloddor 167]

ERMAGHERD! I need news, any updates somewhere? =)

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

I don't think have accuracy poor.

I think have greater recoil, I'm guessing most civilians don't know how to control a gun well when firing in quick secession or while firing full auto.

I would like hunting rifles though, with proper zeroing as suggested in a couple recent topics.

Sniping is a style of play. Don't completely remove it just because occasionally you get sniped without question.

No dmr's and only really bolt action hunting rifles should make enough difference.

Enough to make the first shot miss, and thats all he chance I think people deserve.

Maybe make the player zoom out when using the bolt and have to reaquire.

 

That's the best reason for implementing skills. They should insert sniper rifles but you aren't able to aim very well if you don't have the skill for it. So you need to live long enough to get the sniper skill or other skills.

[Sloddor 167]

That's the best reason for implementing skills. They should insert sniper rifles but you aren't able to aim very well if you don't have the skill for it. So you need to live long enough to get the sniper skill or other skills.

Would hate to see a skilltree or something. Learing by doing skill system is okay, but not for weapons. You can avoid snipers easily if you are moving carefully and check your surroundings. If they make them rare its okay for me.

[Wayze 549]

That's the best reason for implementing skills. They should insert sniper rifles but you aren't able to aim very well if you don't have the skill for it. So you need to live long enough to get the sniper skill or other skills.

Which deathmatch players never do, as they die in deathmatch. Yes, I think the skillsystem would contribute just positive things to the game. I just don't get why people don't like the idea.

[weparo 613]

Ehhh... no skill trees please... I think that's a stupid idea. Everyone is supposed to be be equal in DayZ. It's the real life skills that matter. Make snipers sight their scopes and you got all you need.

[Wayze 549]

Ehhh... no skill trees please... I think that's a stupid idea. Everyone is supposed to be be equal in DayZ. It's the real life skills that matter. Make snipers sight their scopes and you got all you need.

Nobody is talking about skill trees. More like project zomboid. The more you do something, the better you get in it.

 

Nobody is ever equal in DayZ. The one who has the better weapons wins. The one who is better in aiming wins. The one who sneaks behind you wins. There is nothing fair about survival. And there never will be. Survival is about the exact oppisite thing, you have to find the most unfair way to eliminate your competition. That's life.

 

So, real life skills? Since when is everyone able to aim a weapon perfectly where he wants? Since when is everyone able to make a fire within 5 seconds the first time he does it? Since when has life absolutly no value?

Edited December 11, 2013 by Wayze

[weparo 613]

Nobody is talking about skill trees. More like project zomboid. The more you do something, the better you get in it.

 

Nobody is ever equal in DayZ. The one who has the better weapons wins. The one who is better in aiming wins. The one who sneaks behind you wins. There is nothing fair about survival. And there never will be. Survival is about the exact oppisite thing, you have to find the most unfair way to eliminate your competition. That's life.

 

So, real life skills? Since when is everyone able to aim a weapon perfectly where he wants? Since when is everyone able to make a fire within 5 seconds the first time he does it? Since when has life absolutly no value?

 

Right right. I meant that everybodys char is the same. But getting better at stuff with time is a skill tree, now isn't it?

 

EDIT : all that stuff aside, is that just me or are the dev's really quiet atm? #habbeningtime

Edited December 11, 2013 by Weparo

[Very Ape 748]

I used to not be a fan of skills as gamers know it being implemented in DayZ. I would have much rather seen a system based on crippling, soul-sucking complexity wherein medics would have to learn an insanely complex system in order to know which medical procedures to perform in any given situation, where a bomb-maker would have to learn a an equally complex system, etc. My main concern was "level-grinding."

 

But then I realized, what about DayZ favors level-grinding? The bomb-maker still has to find his supplies, as does the medic, and if he chooses to waste them in mere training, that's his choice. And, in life, if I decided to become a bomb-maker, I would have to practice, not just study. If the bomb-maker manages to find his supplies, find a safe spot to practice, and manages to not blow himself up, then let him become the next Grim Reaper of booby traps.

 

And, then, a thought occurred me, what if they incorporated both? It'd make for some very interesting situations. On one hand, you'd have a bumbling medic who doesn't know how to act under pressure, but is able to perform individual medical procedures with stunning accuracy. Smarts, but no street smarts.

 

On the other hand, you could have your character who is quick to act, and knows exactly which series of procedures he must perform to keep his man alive. He has no experience, so his fingers don't move like the medic, but he knows what to do, he's just never done it. Think of Anthony Hopkins' character in The Edge.

 

(And, let's not forget, the medic who embodies both of these dimensions. He is the professional, valued by any team).

 

It's potential as a way of adding value to your character is immense. No more silly risks just because you know your teammates can salvage part of your gear. No more non-compliance with bandits holding you at gunpoint out of mere spite, because you figure you'll die anyways. No. I want to people to beg, to crawl, to kill to survive, even if they've just been despoiled of all their worldly possessions. And hell, with the new medical system, it's safe to assume injuries will be more devastating than before. You'll have to nurse yourself back to health. This way, people wouldn't kill themselves just to be healthy again.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Very Ape

[weparo 613]

I used to not be a fan of skills as gamers know it being implemented in DayZ. I would have much rather seen a system based on crippling, soul-sucking complexity wherein medics would have to learn an insanely complex system in order to know which medical procedures to perform in any given situation, where a bomb-maker would have to learn a an equally complex system, etc. My main concern was "level-grinding."

 

But then I realized, what about DayZ favors level-grinding? The bomb-maker still has to find his supplies, as does the medic, and if he chooses to waste them in mere training, that's his choice. And, in life, if I decided to become a bomb-maker, I would have to practice, not just study.

 

It's potential as a way of adding value to your character is immense. No more silly risks just because you know your teammates can salvage part of your gear. No more non-compliance with bandits holding you at gunpoint out of mere spite, because you figure you'll die anyways. No. I want to people to beg, to crawl, to kill to survive, even if they've just been despoiled of all their worldly possessions. 

 

True, but I don't think it will work either way, because many KoS/casual players will still be there and not give a shit I suppose... The only thing where skill would be good imho is something like cardio... or health! Rocket once mentoined that the player will be better of eating healthy food and drinking water instead of soda! that'd be nice

 

You could start with this fat and weak guy and with time he'd get stronger and faster thus more "valuable"

Edited December 11, 2013 by Weparo

[Katana67 2907]

I like the "skill" system as it's explained by Rocket, but it can't apply to everything.

 

I think it should only apply to certain things, in two overall categories

- Aesthetics (i.e. how your player looks in terms of stance and animation)

- Actions which are a process (i.e. bandaging, reloading, blood bagging, etc.)

 

I think aesthetics is an understated value when it comes to progression. Granted, this... again... runs into the problem of cross-server characters, but I'll just go with it. If a player looks like he/she has been at it for a long time (i.e. sprints efficiently, shoulders one's weapon efficiently, etc.) I'll be far more likely to treat them as a threat over someone who looks green (i.e. sprinting like a jackass, poor shooting stance, etc.) That's not to say that everyone who looks "green" isn't an experienced player, but it's just one more visual identifier to use in the overall scheme of threat analysis in DayZ.

 

Actions which are a process, like bandaging, are tied to the actions menu or directly through the keyboard (press R to reload, etc.) The player clicks a button and the action goes about automatically. Other than the player's initiation of the action, he/she has no input. There is no "player skill" in an automated animation, which takes X amount of time. These are the things in which I think a progression system is fitting, whereby if you do something enough the time it takes to do it shortens. Likewise, you have the "luck" element in that certain things (bandaging, bloodbagging, etc.) may have a higher chance of failure for an inexperienced character.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

Would hate to see a skilltree or something. Learing by doing skill system is okay, but not for weapons. You can avoid snipers easily if you are moving carefully and check your surroundings. If they make them rare its okay for me.

 

I don't think on a skilltree, more like: The more often you use a gun, the better you can shoot. If you start right from the coast, you are a normal "man" without any aiming skills or something like that. An than after getting a gun and killing zombies and player, you will learn automatically how to handle a weapon better.

[Very Ape 748]

I like the "skill" system as it's explained by Rocket, but it can't apply to everything.

 

I think it should only apply to certain things, in two overall categories

- Aesthetics (i.e. how your player looks in terms of stance and animation)

- Actions which are a process (i.e. bandaging, reloading, blood bagging, etc.)

 

I think aesthetics is an understated value when it comes to progression. Granted, this... again... runs into the problem of cross-server characters, but I'll just go with it. If a player looks like he/she has been at it for a long time (i.e. sprints efficiently, shoulders one's weapon efficiently, etc.) I'll be far more likely to treat them as a threat over someone who looks green (i.e. sprinting like a jackass, poor shooting stance, etc.) That's not to say that everyone who looks "green" isn't an experienced player, but it's just one more visual identifier to use in the overall scheme of threat analysis in DayZ.

 

Actions which are a process, like bandaging, are tied to the actions menu or directly through the keyboard (press R to reload, etc.) The player clicks a button and the action goes about automatically. Other than the player's initiation of the action, he/she has no input. There is no "player skill" in an automated animation, which takes X amount of time. These are the things in which I think a progression system is fitting, whereby if you do something enough the time it takes to do it shortens. Likewise, you have the "luck" element in that certain things (bandaging, bloodbagging, etc.) may have a higher chance of failure for an in experienced character.

 

I completely agree, and that's exactly what I envisioned as well. There's no way the skill tree could really apply to helicopter pilots and the like. 

 

People underestimate the value of aesthetic features. One of the main reasons people kill each-other in DayZ is because everyone is just another stormtrooper to them, and it's also something that people value in their own characters. 

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

Ehhh... no skill trees please... I think that's a stupid idea. Everyone is supposed to be be equal in DayZ. It's the real life skills that matter. Make snipers sight their scopes and you got all you need.

 

Yeah, but if you never used a sniper rifle before you won't be able to hit a target in front of you ;) so you should have a hard time at the beginning with sniping. after killing some zombies or players you will get better and better. The other side is, how long can you survive with that sniper if you cant shoot very well at the beginning.

[weparo 613]

Yeah, but if you never used a sniper rifle before you won't be able to hit a target in front of you ;) so you should have a hard time at the beginning with sniping. after killing some zombies or players you will get better and better. The other side is, how long can you survive with that sniper if you cant shoot very well at the beginning.

 

That applies to maybe the first week of the SA beeing live...  Then everybody will have had a sniper in his hands

[Katana67 2907]

Answer, it shouldn't apply to thinks like accuracy. Done deal. Innate qualities of your character are, supposedly, the innate qualities of the player.

 

Procedural actions are a different matter.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

That applies to maybe the first week of the SA beeing live...  Then everybody will have had a sniper in his hands

 

If you die you'll lose your skills. I think if u were able to survive 100 days you should have a small beneficial compared to a beginner ;)

[GodOfGrain 191]

Nobody is talking about skill trees. More like project zomboid. The more you do something, the better you get in it.

 

Nobody is ever equal in DayZ. The one who has the better weapons wins. The one who is better in aiming wins. The one who sneaks behind you wins. There is nothing fair about survival. And there never will be. Survival is about the exact oppisite thing, you have to find the most unfair way to eliminate your competition. That's life.

 

So, real life skills? Since when is everyone able to aim a weapon perfectly where he wants? Since when is everyone able to make a fire within 5 seconds the first time he does it? Since when has life absolutly no value?

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/120173-on-game-design-progression-through-equipment-and-a-system-of-micro-skills/

 

Yea, have talked this through.

I just post this link whenever I see a related discussion.

 

In short:

Skill system = Important instrument to reduce KOS, mainly by assigning value to a player's life

Skill system = High potential to combine with other game areas and increase complexity / realism

But; Many pitfalls. A "getting better at what you do"-system wouldn't be good.

 

Can be done in a proper way though, and I'd support it.

[Katana67 2907]

If you die you'll lose your skills. I think if u were able to survive 100 days you should have a small beneficial compared to a beginner ;)

 

But you already have that, by virtue of you surviving for so long as a player.

 

This gets back into whether we're playing distinct characters or playing as ourselves through our characters.

[Wayze 549]

I completely agree, and that's exactly what I envisioned as well. There's no way the skill tree could really apply to helicopter pilots and the like. 

 

People underestimate the value of aesthetic features. One of the main reasons people kill each-other in DayZ is because everyone is just another stormtrooper to them, and it's also something that people value in their own characters. 

Yes, like I said some months ago, we need enough value that the character is really valuable to someone, but not to much so he isn't overpowered.

 

Aiming, driving a car and sorts is arguable. I would really like to see slight improvments in that, but no problem if not. What really matters for me are things like medical treatment, repairing stuff, building traps and fires. Things that need you to equire a skill and things that make sense gameplaywise.

Now, building a fire from the beginning would be way to easy. Everyone could chop of a tree and make a fire. Sure, if you have a lighter you should always be able to do so, but lighters are rare (or should be). If you make a fire just with bare hands, it should be very hard, atleast the first times you do it. The more you do it the better you get. In the end you will be even able to create a fire while it's cold as hell. (hands are shaking, but you are skilled enough to do so anyways)

Now, fires should be an important part of the game. If it gets cold or a storm is coming people should find shelter. If you can build a fire you can survive in the woods, without having to depend on a shelter.

Buidling traps is the same, you can equire food if you go out and scavange, but you can also try to go hunting. Creating traps and the more you do it the better your traps get. Maybe after a while you are even able to create traps that successfully kill humans. Before you equired the skill you could have tried to do so, but you would have most likely failed.

If you try to repair the engine of a car, you should first be slower. Really slow, like slow as hell. The more you do it the faster you get. The more wounds your treat, the faster and the less mistakes you make.

 

This does not only add character value but also way more player interaction. People will need each other because of their different skills. Someone is a really good medic and that is ofcourse rare in the apocalypse. People will maybe even fight for him. Another guy is really good in repairing cars, hell he did it so often he knows how to repair a helicopter! Another guy is a badass hunter.

Etc. etc. you name it. It would add so much depth and autheism to the game.

 

And here is the thing why I even would like to have this system with sniper rifles. In DayZ Mod, a guy can go find a sniper, go to cherno and hunt as much as he wants. But if sniping is really difficult due to the scope moving because you cannot hold your aim straight, nobody would do it if fresh spawn. Why risk the sniper rifle, which is very rare, just to go and do something that is almost impossible?

The more you do it, the better you get in it. In the end the guy is a good sniper, probably it took him 20 hours to reach that point. He is very dangerous, but didn't he kind of deserve it, I mean he survived 20 hours... there has to be a reward for it. And still, he can die every moment. He is a very valuable person for his group, only he is capable of doing his job. People depend on him, if he dies nobody is there to just replace him. You wouldn't be just afraid of your life and your gear, but also about the life of your friend which invested hell of alot time to equire these skills.

 

And it's not like it's OP. I mean, snipers are dangerous and are supposed to be. There won't be many snipers in the game because sniperrifles/scopes will be pretty rare. But to prevent deathmatching, such a system would be really good IMO.

 

 

 

But; Many pitfalls. A "getting better at what you do"-system wouldn't be good.

And why exactly wouldn't it be good? Just because?

 

 

But you already have that, by virtue of you surviving for so long as a player.

 

This gets back into whether we're playing distinct characters or playing as ourselves through our characters.

You don't get better in making a fire, just because you are able to do so ingame. And it's also the other way around. You shouldn't be able to be a perfect shooter ingame just because you are in a huntingclub. All of this has nothing to do with the personality you choose for the game, it is just a gameplay concept.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Wayze

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

But you already have that, by virtue of you surviving for so long as a player.

 

This gets back into whether we're playing distinct characters or playing as ourselves through our characters.

That's right, but we will see. First they should improve the zombies. I think they should make that just headshots count, so you are only able to kill a zombie with a headshot, that makes them more threatened. I don't like it to kill a Z with only one bodyshot... that's....stupid.

[Budheadz 28]

How many hours till release ? 5, 6 ?

[Katana67 2907]

You don't get better in making a fire, just because you are able to do so ingame. And it's also the other way around. You shouldn't be able to be a perfect shooter ingame just because you are in a huntingclub. All of this has nothing to do with the personality you choose for the game, it is just a gameplay concept.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Real-world knowledge doesn't factor in at all. Player skill, does. And in areas which involve little to no player skill (i.e. procedural animations) is where I see a "skill system" working best.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[Wayze 549]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Real-world knowledge doesn't factor in at all. Player skill, does. And in areas which involve little to no player skill (i.e. procedural animations) is where I see a "skill system" working best.

Ah, ok. So building traps, repairing cars, treating wounds, creating clothing, crafting things all skillbased.

Aiming, driving, running no skillbased?

[Scizoo (DayZ) 31]

You don't get better in making a fire, just because you are able to do so ingame. And it's also the other way around. You shouldn't be able to be a perfect shooter ingame just because you are in a huntingclub. All of this has nothing to do with the personality you choose for the game, it is just a gameplay concept.

Have you ever tried to shoot with a real sniper rifle to a object which is about 300 m in front of you? I know, i can't talk about reality because it's a post apocalyptic game but if they want some realism ingame they should use a skillsystem.

It's like you see a zombie first time in your life, you have no clue how to kill that son of a bit**, but after some sucessfull  kills you get better and better.

 

It's just my personal oppinion :) I like the idea that i'm getting stronger the longer i live. Because you need a long term goal, if u haven't anything to improve, why would you play this game for a long time? 

Look at the mod, if you got everything, you start to think about whats the next step. And there were only 2 things you can do... become a bandit and hunt players down or become a "hero" and help other players....

Edited December 11, 2013 by Scizoo