Less ammo = more KOS

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

I think it's hilarious that people think ammo rarity is going to reduce KOS at all, if anything it will increase it.

 

People are not going to want to KOS any less just because there are less weapons and bullets laying around, all that has happened is you have reduced the number of weapons, not the desire to kill.

 

If ammo is extremely rare than I will make doubly sure to kill anyone I see so I can collect the ammo that they have been collecting on their body. It'd be so much easier and less risky than trying to scavenge ammo continually. and chances are that if ammo is rare laying about, than players will be more likely to become large deposits of bullets, as they will pick more of it up knowing it's rare.

[Aporis 422]

I think it's hilarious that people think ammo rarity is going to reduce KOS at all, if anything it will increase it.

 

People are not going to want to KOS any less just because there are less weapons and bullets laying around, all that has happened is you have reduced the number of weapons, not the desire to kill.

 

If ammo is extremely rare than I will make doubly sure to kill anyone I see so I can collect the ammo that they have been collecting on their body. It'd be so much easier and less risky than trying to scavenge ammo continually. and chances are that if ammo is rare laying about, than players will be more likely to become large deposits of bullets, as they will pick more of it up knowing it's rare.

Can't collect people are just gonna spray and lose their bullets and the ones that are on the person too.

It does reduce KoS because not as many people have guns + Ammo for it.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Aporis

[Skat3rat 1633]

This has been brought up a lot.  Either way I agree with you.  I was talking to Cap's and several others about it a few nights ago and everyone said the same thing.  They agree that less ammo would just make them more likely to kill someone in hopes that they have ammo.  I know that there will be the possibility of damaging gear but in seems like in SA, ammo will be so rare that people will trade bullets for items.

 

@Aporis I see where you're coming from but I still don't think that having less ammo will do anything.  It just means that people are going to wait for a more clear shot and not do things like suppressing fire.

 

I'm for trying to find a way to make people not KOS all the time, but I have to agree that ammo probably won't be the thing that greatly reduces it.

[Aporis 422]

I think theres more to that than just bullet reduction and Gear destroying.

Let's just hope everyone is gonna play it like back in the "good ol' DayZ"

[mercules 1290]

It will reduce KoS if only because after killing three people you are out of bullets. 


It seems like a far cry to think that if you only have a few bullets for your gun that someone else might have some and gambling on exchanging 1 bullet for a very strong possibility they don't have any seems futile. Now you might track them down and club them over the head, but it seems a lot less likely that someone is going to sit on a hill with extremely rare sniper ammo and try and pop shots at a newspawn who hasn't found anything yet. A lot of the KoS right now is people just shooting whoever. It isn't about gear, or anything else. You might not stop some of them, but others are going to get frustrated they can't find 2 clips for their favorite gun, much less their favorite gun, run up a hill and start doing the PvP game.Those will go away. At that point you might end up with people who will warily be willing to communicate since they won't be spending more than half their time dodging hidden snipers and trying to get to gear past military loot spawn campers. 

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

It will reduce KoS if only because after killing three people you are out of bullets. 

It seems like a far cry to think that if you only have a few bullets for your gun that someone else might have some and gambling on exchanging 1 bullet for a very strong possibility they don't have any seems futile. Now you might track them down and club them over the head, but it seems a lot less likely that someone is going to sit on a hill with extremely rare sniper ammo and try and pop shots at a newspawn who hasn't found anything yet. A lot of the KoS right now is people just shooting whoever. It isn't about gear, or anything else. You might not stop some of them, but others are going to get frustrated they can't find 2 clips for their favorite gun, much less their favorite gun, run up a hill and start doing the PvP game.Those will go away. At that point you might end up with people who will warily be willing to communicate since they won't be spending more than half their time dodging hidden snipers and trying to get to gear past military loot spawn campers. 

rofl

 

if all I do is not shoot anyone than I won't ever have more than a few rounds. shooting people means I have a chance to find bullets for my gun on my body.

 

I'm going to use EVERY round I have on people's headcases because it's the most economic way.

 

If all else fails and there are so few weapons and ammo left that no one can arm up, than it will just resort to KOS melee style.

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

uhhm, i disagree?

If I only have 5 bullets or w.e im not going to start poppin' off caps like a motherfucker at someone just because I see them, you have to stalk them and make your bullets count from that point. Also, Id try and sneak up on someone and go through their pack instead to try and save a few more bullets. or rob them with an empty gun hoping they didnt have any ammo and a matching gun.

[mercules 1290]

rofl

 

if all I do is not shoot anyone than I won't ever have more than a few rounds. shooting people means I have a chance to find bullets for my gun on my body.

 

I'm going to use EVERY round I have on people's headcases because it's the most economic way.

 

If all else fails and there are so few weapons and ammo left that no one can arm up, than it will just resort to KOS melee style.

 

Look, I get that you can't compute anything more complex than very sterilized and narrow sets of parameters. It is apparent by how you try to break these into tiny little discussions inside a single box that ignores anything else. Gear Destruction, less ammo/guns, tougher zombies, loot changes, and more will all REDUCE KoS all together. They will likely overlap and the totality of it will discourage people who are not trying to come up with any reason they can to justify why they are not being a jerk in a game just because they like being a jerk.

You enjoy shooting people because it gives you a power trip. I get that. No changes to the game will discourage you from doing so if that power trip high continues to trigger. That doesn't mean EVERYONE is as pathetic as you that we need those little ego strokes. 

[DK McWormfood 10]

the high end guns (m14/dmr++) seem to be v rare at the moment, but there is plenty of enfield and 1866 ammo around. these are actually my favourite weapons, so it just gives me more confidence to take people down as it's less likely that they will wop out some 7.62 automatic frag machine. I've never been much of a KoS player, but i dont give many second chances.

The other side of this is the utter stupidity that is displayed by most players when they find themselves at a disadvantage. How many times have you seen (been) someone trying to shoot their way out of a situation that a quick bit of comms would have avoided. it won't stop the bores who think that cherno is quake 3 with groaning spectators, but you can't expect people to talk their way out of a situation in which you would have shot.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Really, because when I play dayz 2017, almost every person has 1-2 bullets in a rifle and never bother to engage if they see someone with another rifle they usually run away in my experience

So having 1-3 bullets increases KOS instead of having 200 rounds spawning with assault rifles

Great logic you have there

[joe_mcentire 2074]

this whole discussion is pretty much obsolete as we do not know what it will be like in the Standalone. this is exclusively up to the whole balancing process.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

I doubt the idea is to reduce KoS with one simple mechanic, the idea is to make players think a little harder about who gets shot and when. Right now in the mod I have no reason to expose myself from 300m+ with an iron sight M4, I can pop off a few rounds and if I get the kill great, if not I have six extra clips in my inventory. If gear damage, rarer ammo, and tougher zombies are an issue I will have to rethink that position and weigh the benefits of exposing myself to get closer versus the reward from killing the player. I doubt I would take a huge risk to kill someone with a melee weapon on the off chance they have some ammo that matches my guns in their inventory and if they have a matching weapon out I will have to plan out my shot very carefully giving the other player time to notice my presence.

Even after saying that it is not a magic bullet to end KoS, it just has the chance to reduce it slightly for the majority of players. You will still have plenty of people who are willing to go balls to the wall to get the kill but many current bandits might have to play a tad smarter. I am not of the mindset that KoS is a bad thing, I have argued many times that KoS and banditry is what gives this game tension, but due to a lack of features in the mod and the mod being incredibly easy for seasoned players it is the only play style that works.

The reason people hate on your opinion is due to the fact that you present it so poorly. You discount the fact that others might actually want features that encourage group play. You think nothing should be done when almost everyone thinks this game could use some compelling features to make it more interesting. The only way you can argue a point is to sit firmly in your own shoes and think about the issue from a very narrow mindset. It does not matter if the feature will not drastically change YOUR play style, it might affect other players and cause them to tweak how they play the game. This is coming from someone who mostly plays as a bandit and finds the KoS whining a tad excessive on this forum, your counter whining is just as annoying.

[klesh 2423]

You could be out of bullets and see someone running around without a gun... The KoS people still have every reason to come hatchet them to death. Hell, they could see someone with a gun and do the same, rolling the dice on the fact that the other guy with the gun may not have any ammo himself.

The only way to not have tons of KoS is to give people something more exciting and rewarding to do with their gametime. I dont know what that is.

[beavis_5000 111]

I honestly see it possibly increasing KoS unless there is other dynamics in the game that slow down KoS. We will have to wait and I see I suppose. But if we are gonna have things like shoes that degrade on their own we are gonna have people even killing each other for shoes.

 

No matter how much ammo you take away from a KoS'er he will still KoS every chance he gets. I understand that a KoS'er cant KoS without ammo, but its not like there will be no ammo at all. There will still be ammo and if you give a KoS'er 5 bullets what do you think he will do with them?

 

If you take DayZ as it is now and make ammo much more rare it would increase KoS. Not only that but it would leave solo players even more vunerable to teams and clans who will have control over the loot areas and have easier and more access to ammo. It would also leave fresh spawns even more vulernable to spawn killers.

 

I dont know we will have to see...

[Dagwood 680]

When zeds run indoors and have proper pathfinding, any kind of pvp engagement is going to be accompanied by a small horde of infectious, fast, alert "zombies". Without sufficient ammo to neutralize all of them (remember, they will actually be able to catch us) you will have to resort to a melee weapon. You get smacked a few times, lose a pint of blood, and now you're worse off than before you started the engagement.

People will still kill other players for their gear or just their life. This will never change. BUT, the time invested in properly planning and executing an ambush, ruse (you big dumb idiot), backstab, w.e. will enrich the gameplay for everyone.

God, if there is a God, please let Dean Hall release DayZ on Halloween as a surprise. Amen.

[h4yw1r3 64]

I think it's hilarious that people think ammo rarity is going to reduce KOS at all, if anything it will increase it.

 

People are not going to want to KOS any less just because there are less weapons and bullets laying around, all that has happened is you have reduced the number of weapons, not the desire to kill.

 

If ammo is extremely rare than I will make doubly sure to kill anyone I see so I can collect the ammo that they have been collecting on their body. It'd be so much easier and less risky than trying to scavenge ammo continually. and chances are that if ammo is rare laying about, than players will be more likely to become large deposits of bullets, as they will pick more of it up knowing it's rare.

 

 

I think it's hilarious how you're naive enough to repeatedly presume to know the outcome of things based off your extremely narrow view of how everyone should play DayZ, which is simply the way you prefer to play.

Are you really incapable of conceiving that not everyone plays the game the way you do, or think they should?  Are you really incapable of figuring it out for yourself how the various design mechanics like ammo rarity and item degradation might curb some of the KoS in the SA based on the possibility that not everyone plays the same as you?  Or is it simply that you personally don't like these design ideas because it will be an inconvenience to you and your style of play?

It seems that you've either got a very limited thought pocess and way of looking at things, or you're just whining about a feature that you don't like in hopes they'll change it.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and threads, I'm not sure how anyone with any sense could ever take anything you say seriously.  You might consider making a new account.  You've made a fool of yourself on your current one.

[Aporis 422]

I think it's hilarious how you're naive enough to repeatedly presume to know the outcome of things based off your extremely narrow view of how everyone should play DayZ, which is simply the way you prefer to play.

Are you really incapable of conceiving that not everyone plays the game the way you do, or think they should?  Are you really incapable of figuring it out for yourself how the various design mechanics like ammo rarity and item degradation might curb some of the KoS in the SA based on the possibility that not everyone plays the same as you?  Or is it simply that you personally don't like these design ideas because it will be an inconvenience to you and your style of play?

It seems that you've either got a very limited thought pocess and way of looking at things, or you're just whining about a feature that you don't like in hopes they'll change it.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and threads, I'm not sure how anyone with any sense could ever take anything you say seriously.  You might consider making a new account.  You've made a fool of yourself on your current one.

Hipsters tend to be different because its too mainstream to be excited about standalone

[meat pie 632]

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

I think it's hilarious how you're naive enough to repeatedly presume to know the outcome of things based off your extremely narrow view of how everyone should play DayZ, which is simply the way you prefer to play.

Are you really incapable of conceiving that not everyone plays the game the way you do, or think they should?  Are you really incapable of figuring it out for yourself how the various design mechanics like ammo rarity and item degradation might curb some of the KoS in the SA based on the possibility that not everyone plays the same as you?  Or is it simply that you personally don't like these design ideas because it will be an inconvenience to you and your style of play?

It seems that you've either got a very limited thought pocess and way of looking at things, or you're just whining about a feature that you don't like in hopes they'll change it.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and threads, I'm not sure how anyone with any sense could ever take anything you say seriously.  You might consider making a new account.  You've made a fool of yourself on your current one.

You say I can't be taken seriously, yet my topics receive hundreds of replies, and people like you come into them repeatedly!

 

Don't mistake me: I am always serious. That is why I'm always taken seriously.

 

My way of thinking is based on my viewpoint. But it is not based on my viewpoint alone. I am pretty sure KoS will be just as rampant in SA as it is now, if not more. the changes that have been added simply will not do what everyone is thinking they will, if you thnk about it for ten seconds instead of being stubborn and refusing to see different options. I'd say your problem is just a refusal to be wrong.

[Aporis 422]

You say I can't be taken seriously, yet my topics receive hundreds of replies, and people like you come into them repeatedly!

 

Don't mistake me: I am always serious. That is why I'm always taken seriously.

 

My way of thinking is based on my viewpoint. But it is not based on my viewpoint alone. I am pretty sure KoS will be just as rampant in SA as it is now, if not more. the changes that have been added simply will not do what everyone is thinking they will, if you thnk about it for ten seconds instead of being stubborn and refusing to see different options. I'd say your problem is just a refusal to be wrong.

Ozzy, if you are so sure about that whatever they try its still going to be KoS and bash all the effort they have taken months to create, why haven't you emailed them so we could have had standalone sooner?

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

You say I can't be taken seriously, yet my topics receive hundreds of replies, and people like you come into them repeatedly!

 

 

 

it's hard to take you seriously when meat pie is constantly doing this

[mercules 1290]

it's hard to take you seriously when meat pie is constantly doing this

It doesn't even take a picture... usually his OP will do that.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

You say I can't be taken seriously, yet my topics receive hundreds of replies, and people like you come into them repeatedly!

 

Don't mistake me: I am always serious. That is why I'm always taken seriously.

 

My way of thinking is based on my viewpoint. But it is not based on my viewpoint alone. I am pretty sure KoS will be just as rampant in SA as it is now, if not more. the changes that have been added simply will not do what everyone is thinking they will, if you thnk about it for ten seconds instead of being stubborn and refusing to see different options. I'd say your problem is just a refusal to be wrong.

Ozelot, Ozelot, Ozelot... Always complaining about KoS topics being made, but yet always creating topics about it...

When are you gonna learn that you don't know everything? You act like a high and mighty know it all constantly. What are you trying to prove here? We get it bud, you think SA is going to be just like the mod. People flock to your topics because they are about kos, not because they were created by a self-titled "genius".

I'm more interested in what reasoning you have for wishing standalone fail. You act like you've been privately violated by the community or something. Whatever the reason may be, your little crusade of dropping "knowledge" on people, has merely become not only annoying, but cliche as of late.

Quit trying to prove how 'smart' you are, nobody cares. The arrogance is almost sickening.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

You say I can't be taken seriously, yet my topics receive hundreds of replies, and people like you come into them repeatedly!

 

Yes, but when most of those replies are people desperately trying to persuade you to come down off the metaphorical edge of the cliff, that doesn't really reinforce your credibility much there, feller. You get replies because you're a slightly better than average troll. You say things that don't make much sense and make outlandish statements that are contrary to popular opinion and then you stubbornly refuse to listen to any point of view other than your own, meaning that most of the replies are just you and a frustrated poster going round in circles until they get fed up trying to talk any sense into you and give up.

 

It's pretty difficult to say for sure whether a reduction in weapons/ammo will definitely result in a reduction in KoS behaviour. It certainly won't eradicate it altogether, and anyone who says it will is just as far off the reservation as our good buddy Ozelot here. However, I'm not convinced it'll increase it. I know that if I've only got one STANAG mag left, I'm a lot more hesitant to shoot my way out of trouble than I am if I've got five more mags sitting in my pocket - I'd be willing to wager most players probably think along similar lines. I generally don't attack players unless provoked, so I can't really apply a bandit mentality to it, but I'd likewise imagine that unless the player is reasonably sure that 1) the guy they're attacking is carrying more ammo than it's going to cost to kill him and 2) that they can kill him quickly without him sending half that ammo their way at several hundred meters per second, they're going to at least think twice before opening fire.

 

Let's also not forget that (hopefully) zombies are going to be a bigger threat in the SA too. I remember one of the early dev diaries showing the new pathfinding AI follows the player in a much tighter manner, meaning that firing your AK on full auto in the middle of Elektro might be closer to a death sentence than the mild inconvenience it is now. That's got to have some effect on the decision-making process as well, surely.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Yes, but when most of those replies are people desperately trying to persuade you to come down off the metaphorical edge of the cliff, that doesn't really reinforce your credibility much there, feller. You get replies because you're a slightly better than average troll. You say things that don't make much sense and make outlandish statements that are contrary to popular opinion and then you stubbornly refuse to listen to any point of view other than your own, meaning that most of the replies are just you and a frustrated poster going round in circles until they get fed up trying to talk any sense into you and give up.

 

It's pretty difficult to say for sure whether a reduction in weapons/ammo will definitely result in a reduction in KoS behaviour. It certainly won't eradicate it altogether, and anyone who says it will is just as far off the reservation as our good buddy Ozelot here. However, I'm not convinced it'll increase it. I know that if I've only got one STANAG mag left, I'm a lot more hesitant to shoot my way out of trouble than I am if I've got five more mags sitting in my pocket - I'd be willing to wager most players probably think along similar lines. I generally don't attack players unless provoked, so I can't really apply a bandit mentality to it, but I'd likewise imagine that unless the player is reasonably sure that 1) the guy they're attacking is carrying more ammo than it's going to cost to kill him and 2) that they can kill him quickly without him sending half that ammo their way at several hundred meters per second, they're going to at least think twice before opening fire.

 

Let's also not forget that (hopefully) zombies are going to be a bigger threat in the SA too. I remember one of the early dev diaries showing the new pathfinding AI follows the player in a much tighter manner, meaning that firing your AK on full auto in the middle of Elektro might be closer to a death sentence than the mild inconvenience it is now. That's got to have some effect on the decision-making process as well, surely.

A-fucking-men. At least someone else realizes him for what he is. Nothing more than someone that can throw words together in a fashion that merely gives an illusion of actual intelligence. What is most comedic about him, is that he had the audacity to call others stubborn and thickheaded. Pot calling the kettle black.

Wonder what he'll whip together for you. Rofl.