[SA] Drastically increase vehicle number, make fuel currency

[Xianyu 820]

Waaaaaaait.

 

Before you rage.

 

Hear me out.

 

Read the entire post or I'll just ignore your response.

 

I hate the hurr-durr 500 vehicle server start with DMR hatchet and rations bullshit as much as the next person. I'm very vocal about it. It's not DayZ.

 

For the standalone, though. I'm suggesting a drastic increase to the number of simple vehicles. Like 100 per server. Maybe even as much as 200. Hell, it'd be fine by me if they were clogging the streets like a traffic jam.

 

This is because of the realism aspect.

 

There were so many people living in Chernarus... but looking at the vehicle count, blown-up vehicles included, you'd think there were none. Empty vehicles could act as random loot containers. A collection of shit that people collected to take with them, and then abandoned when the infection got close or got to them. Weapons. Food. Medicine. Supplies. Because they're vehicles, they're random. They're not set in any pattern. They could show up on any road anywhere.

 

I'm not saying they should spawn in in mint condition. They should be orange at best, red at normal, destroyed at worst. Tires should be deflated. Fuel tanks should be rusted and empty. The engine should be rusted and no longer functional. The battery should be dead. Time should have taken its toll on these vehicles and rendered them useless.

 

And if any player that wants to, should spend enough time going from vehicle to vehicle and collecting all the orange parts, he should be able to cobble together a workable vehicle that can maybe reach 10 miles an hour if he's lucky.

 

Every player should have access to a vehicle. That's the first hinging point of this 'plan'.

 

Vehicles will no longer be the holy grail of DayZ. They will be an object. A tool.

 

But the balancing factor to this, and this is important: Make fuel as rare as night vision goggles.

 

Make fuel so scarce that finding a full jerry can is like coming across the holy fucking grail buried in the dirt.

 

No vehicle starts with fuel. No tanks are full. No stockpiles exist in the world except those created by players.

 

A DayZ world without fuel is a completely different world.

 

You can have five helicopters lined up in a row at a base. Can't go nowhere. Aint got no fuel.

 

You can have all the cars in the entire map stashed in the same spot. Aint got no fuel bro. Can't do shit.

 

The refineries are no longer active. Fuel is no longer being delivered. The gas stations and the fuel tanks have long, long since been emptied.

 

Fuel will become the new currency of DayZ. No longer will you measure the worth of an item against a gun, but rather, against a litre/gallon of fuel.

 

Helicopters won't be flown willy-nilly up and down the coast firing on new spawns. They will be kept in check for assaults and quick transport, and nothing else. There will be no 'joy rides'. Just as in a real apocalypse, a flight in a helicopter will be a measured, premeditated excursion. Especially as they burn fuel so hard already that each minute you're in the air is more precious currency being burned away.

 

When you see someone driving a vehicle, you won't want to kill him for his vehicle, but rather, you will want to kill him and siphon his fuel away.

 

And base building? What if you could put a 100 gallon fuel tank down somewhere and fill it with fuel? Can you imagine the fights over that kind of resource? A large clan could be raided and have all their fuel stolen and literally be unable to follow the theives. Or they could have their fuel supply blown up and cripple their entire operation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically, the tl;dr is: increase vehicle count massively to devalue vehicles. But conversely make fuel super, super, super rare. Fuel will become the new currency, and the world will become a harsher, more realistic place.

 

The entire pivot point of the system is the rarity of fuel and the abundance of vehicles. Too few vehicles and it's not going to be worth it to try and get one running. Too abundant a supply of fuel and everyone and his uncle will have a vehicle. Which would suck.

 

P.S. I know the knee-jerk reaction against a vehicle increase is to scream 'NO NO NO NO NO'. But think. What would you do with a vehicle that has no fuel when fuel is as rare as NVGs? You loot that shit and move on, is what you do. Just like any loot point in the world.

[Gwraspe 318]

outrageous thread is outrageous

 

EDIT: in all seriousness though, with a little tweaking/refining it's a great idea

Edited October 18, 2013 by Gwraspe

[rossums 2190]

I've always supported in increase on the number of vehicles for exactly this reason (They would be a lot more widespread) but in bad condition.

The only thing that I couldn't work out was a nice balance to where the fuel should be found - it should be accessible but rare so places like military spawns couldn't be the only place.

I like the idea of siphoning fuel from multiple vehicles just to have enough to run your car from A to B but that obviously isn't a choice that would stand on it's own, there would have to be a steady source to obtain fuel.

I'd like to see an emphasis on the scavenging aspect of DayZ, especially when it comes to vehicles - it should be rare to find lots of working parts sitting around and there should be a lot more emphasis on salvaging from other vehicles.

[enforcer1975 1111]

A lot of vehicles could still half a lot of fuel in them, maybe they were left when people got stuck in traffic or because of a breakdown of some kind. I like the current way some mods are going with vehicles beeing salvagable and the way you can siphon fuel, they should just add more detail so you can't take f.e. a carwheel and attach it to a truck or vice versa. And also like them to distinguish between normal gasoline, diesel and aviation fuel instead of generalizing it. Using normal fuel in jet engines should have an impact on the performace and of course damage an engine if you put the wrong fuel in a vehicle ( gasoline in diesel engine or vice versa ).

[Xianyu 820]

A lot of vehicles could still half a lot of fuel in them, maybe they were left when people got stuck in traffic or because of a breakdown of some kind. I like the current way some mods are going with vehicles beeing salvagable and the way you can siphon fuel, they should just add more detail so you can't take f.e. a carwheel and attach it to a truck or vice versa. And also like them to distinguish between normal gasoline, diesel and aviation fuel instead of generalizing it. Using normal fuel in jet engines should have an impact on the performace and of course damage an engine if you put the wrong fuel in a vehicle ( gasoline in diesel engine or vice versa ).

Do you know what happens to fuel that sits in a vehicle for a year or more?

 

I don't. But I wager it's not good.

[Karmaterror 982]

I can see this working well just as described in OP. The cars could be empty of fuel because, if zeds are after you, you aint stopping to turn off the engine and lock the car :D. Also different types of fuel would be awesome. Maybe for aviation fuel you could keep a kind of crashsite....the site dosent spawn loot but you can syphon a small amount of aviation fuel from each one.

[Xianyu 820]

I can see this working well just as described in OP. The cars could be empty of fuel because, if zeds are after you, you aint stopping to turn off the engine and lock the car :D. Also different types of fuel would be awesome. Maybe for aviation fuel you could keep a kind of crashsite....the site dosent spawn loot but you can syphon a small amount of aviation fuel from each one.

Or even find it at airfield loot spawns, making them even more of a clusterfuck for bandits and survivors alike.

 

I like clusterfucks though.

[Wayze 549]

I don't know if it is whise to have that many vehicles on a server. Could cause some FPS drop. Otherwise this should be implemented. Important is though that there are many different kinds of vehilces. If there are just like 10 they will repeat and repeate. WIll look kind of stupid.

[bibbish 49]

I think this is a good idea. Working out exactly how rare to make fuel is key. 

 

The OP about wars over fuel and stuff - brilliant and exciting.

 

Currently when you repair a vehicle you can take it from red (ready to explode) to green (pretty much fine). I think this should not be the case. Most vehicles should only be able to be repaired up to an orange (or yellow with a more detailed UI) condition because some complicated parts of the vehicle are damaged and cannot be repaired.

 

A vehicle which you have fixed, say replaced the engine and wheels should still be able to stop dead because the gearbox suddenly breaks. Maybe gearboxes would be very rare?

 

But yes, lots more vehicles and a lack of fuel would certainly be more authentic. If getting a small car or something working didn't take long, but the hunt/quest against the environment or other players to get fuel was more challenging, well that would be more inclusive in a way. Trading and interacting with other players say food or guns in return for the location of a small stash of fuel? Or maybe just a few kills to try and get it? That is much welcome interaction.

 

This may not be the perfect idea, but it is one which may create interesting gameplay, which is what we need. 

[enforcer1975 1111]

Do you know what happens to fuel that sits in a vehicle for a year or more?

 

I don't. But I wager it's not good.

 

It takes more than a year to deteriorate but i know what you mean, fuel tends to gather water over time. What would concern me the most ist rusting fuel tanks on the old chernarussian vehicles.

[andrew_s90 1]

I would love to see this implemented for many reasons.. I like this idea and the idea of siphoning for fuel, but I would also like to see scrap metal or sheet metal used for crap repairs.. like it would repair the engine a bit or fuel tank just a little bit, it could move the car for a little bit but eventually break because of rattling and movement, so it could get a car moved but it wouldn't do much, just a balancing factor. 

But fuel being a rarity and maybe jerry cans could be filled like 3/20 liters or 10/20 liters, that way when you find them they aren't always full and don't fill up fully either. That way cars could have fuel in them like 1/4 of a tank but only a few liters were usable as actual gas. So lets say a car had 40 liters of gas in it when it was abandoned. YAY! 40 Liters!! Nope, only 8 liters were actually usable gas, the rest was watered down. 

 

I think that would be a cool feature.

[enforcer1975 1111]

So lets say a car had 40 liters of gas in it when it was abandoned. YAY! 40 Liters!! Nope, only 8 liters were actually usable gas, the rest was watered down. 

 

You don't have a part that is contaminated and a part that isn't contaminated. It's one mixture in this case.

[mercules 1290]

Do you know what happens to fuel that sits in a vehicle for a year or more?

 

I don't. But I wager it's not good.

 

Did you know that infected probably don't live for a year or so? DayZ probably takes place a month or two at most from the start of the pandemic. 

[enforcer1975 1111]

Did you know that infected probably don't live for a year or so? DayZ probably takes place a month or two at most from the start of the pandemic. 

 

What infected? The ones running after you or the ones shooting at you?

[Karmaterror 982]

I would love to see this implemented for many reasons.. I like this idea and the idea of siphoning for fuel, but I would also like to see scrap metal or sheet metal used for crap repairs.. like it would repair the engine a bit or fuel tank just a little bit, it could move the car for a little bit but eventually break because of rattling and movement, so it could get a car moved but it wouldn't do much, just a balancing factor. 

But fuel being a rarity and maybe jerry cans could be filled like 3/20 liters or 10/20 liters, that way when you find them they aren't always full and don't fill up fully either. That way cars could have fuel in them like 1/4 of a tank but only a few liters were usable as actual gas. So lets say a car had 40 liters of gas in it when it was abandoned. YAY! 40 Liters!! Nope, only 8 liters were actually usable gas, the rest was watered down. 

 

I think that would be a cool feature.

 

Kinda like the idea of "bodged" repairs...in the apocalypse I probably wouldn't spend all day looking for the right part, just something that would work. I work with cars, and do a bit of motorsport. Some of the bodges we have done were great. Once cut an exhaust pipe too short and the back box was about an inch behind the bumper. so the next morning we used about 10 empty beer cans with both ends cut off and 2 exhaust clamps to make an extender. Ran all day with no probs :D

 

Maybe a new use for empty tin cans^^ ;)

Edited October 18, 2013 by Karmaterror

[The Friendly Bandit 137]

I really like this idea man, a lot more than I thought I would. Good job.

[mercules 1290]

What infected? The ones running after you or the ones shooting at you?

 

The Zeds. If they are based off of a virus similar to 28 days later they will die off after a couple months because they are not undead and do not take care of their basic needs. 

[AP_Norris 1017]

I'd love for fuel stations to not have fuel or have very little on rare occasions.

Maybe crashed fuel tankers could be a rare but popular spot to nab some fuel. However "limited amounts" and a huge player congestion zone for all tiers of players.

Cars IMO should spawn commonly as empty abandoned wrecks aside the road.

Farms would be the best place to find fuel tanks that still had fuel and jerrycans aswell.

Farms always have jerrycans where I live, often when you might be on orange light and just too far from station to risk it so you always have a couple fuel cans.

I'd like for fuel to have a few more uses aswell, a handy dandy fire trail.

If BI could make something like GTA has for its fuel can I'd be a very happy bean king.

Also sticky gasoline stuff from polystyrene and petrol mixed together.

Boxes of poly styrene would occasionally spawning warehouses and residentials suggesting packaged auto parts or a new TV was inside once upon a time.

I'd definately love to have more vehicles though, the most fun I've ever had was a 400 vehicle server but... We didn't spawn with DMR's only a Makerov. :D

[AP_Norris 1017]

I was also banned from my favourite server for having too much fun at the admins expense :)

[bibbish 49]

It takes more than a year to deteriorate but i know what you mean, fuel tends to gather water over time. What would concern me the most ist rusting fuel tanks on the old chernarussian vehicles.

 

I think this is another one of those things we should 'turn a blind eye to'. Sure, old fuel in a rusty tank would probably end up damaging your engine or entirely useless, but in the name of 'fun' and 'gameplay' we should ignore that. In the SA players should be able to go around and siphon fuel from vehicles, with varying results, but as the vehicles are mostly in visible places such as highways it would draw a lot of attention. Perhaps it would encourage playing at night? 

Edited October 19, 2013 by bibbish

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Do you know what happens to fuel that sits in a vehicle for a year or more?

 

I don't. But I wager it's not good.

It's never specified how long DayZ occurs after the apocalypse. Obviously it's been at least a few weeks, but that could be just it, only a few weeks.

I'd think that some vehicles would still have small amounts of fuel left, but at the same time being damaged.

Also, not every vehicle should be orange, there could be the rare chance of finding well-preserved vehicles. Inside of garages or hangars, they aren't nearly as exposed to the weather and would likely be in better condition.

I just don't think that using completely blank words like every or none work well.

[Xianyu 820]

It's never specified how long DayZ occurs after the apocalypse. Obviously it's been at least a few weeks, but that could be just it, only a few weeks.

I'd think that some vehicles would still have small amounts of fuel left, but at the same time being damaged.

Also, not every vehicle should be orange, there could be the rare chance of finding well-preserved vehicles. Inside of garages or hangars, they aren't nearly as exposed to the weather and would likely be in better condition.

I just don't think that using completely blank words like every or none work well.

 

The problem with that is it kinda defeats the purpose of fuel being super-rare and sort of begs the question of why the vehicle was abandoned in the first place? If it still had fuel, it could still go places.

 

Maybe if vehicles with fuel in them showed up at the military areas, but were conversely shot to shit. I.E. People trying to escape the infected end up running afoul of military roadblocks and get killed by the soldiers, leaving their vehicles and supplies in broken-down cars on the roadside.

 

It's just, if fuel is too easy to find, then it defeats the purpose of increasing the vehicle count and making fuel a super-rare resource. And having even one in ten cars have fuel in them would be too much.

[AP_Norris 1017]

Stations could easily be emptied in a couple weeks.

Everybody filling up their cars and a couple cans at the same time before they attempt to skip town.

The few that still have petrol stations would probably been properly full before the infection.

[Charb 298]

Considering we don't have an alpha, and last I checked dean was skipping vehicles and not including them in the initial alpha release. Can't we assume they are going to do all kinds of cool new shit?

 

We know they are going to add a degrade system. weapons, gear, they all deteriorate. Maybe cars will too. I would like to see some kind of system where you can just drive around and BANG head gasket is blown.

 

I think a big issue with the current system, if you have a vehicle... as long as you don't have it stolen or destroyed, you can technically repair it infinitely. Assuming cars degrade and eventually lose durability, this isn't an issue. With a system like this, it would make sense to have more cars per server. Especially if server max is 150 players.

 

The current vehicle system is rather simple. Hull, Engine, Glass, Tire, Fuel tanks. If we had something that was not repairable it would limit the life of the car. Add something like axle condition (I dunno...). It will degrade the more you drive and each time you hit an object.

 

I also think we need to have car batteries. You say limit the availability of fuel. Can't we essentially do that (and easier) with various quality of batteries? We've all seen the quality of canned food in SA. Surely they can do the same for batteries which will affect voltage/lifespan.

 

One thing i'd like to see are cars that are beyond repair and may only drive X distance before they become obsolete. They are able to drive 1-2km before they just break down and die forever. Another way to increase total cars on a server without trying to make fuel super rare. Throw 50 or more of these bastards on a server.

 

EDIT: Also... THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOuWTsvVuBM

Edited October 22, 2013 by Charb

[Xianyu 820]

Considering we don't have an alpha, and last I checked dean was skipping vehicles and not including them in the initial alpha release. Can't we assume they are going to do all kinds of cool new shit?

 

We know they are going to add a degrade system. weapons, gear, they all deteriorate. Maybe cars will too. I would like to see some kind of system where you can just drive around and BANG head gasket is blown.

 

I think a big issue with the current system, if you have a vehicle... as long as you don't have it stolen or destroyed, you can technically repair it infinitely. Assuming cars degrade and eventually lose durability, this isn't an issue. With a system like this, it would make sense to have more cars per server. Especially if server max is 150 players.

 

The current vehicle system is rather simple. Hull, Engine, Glass, Tire, Fuel tanks. If we had something that was not repairable it would limit the life of the car. Add something like axle condition (I dunno...). It will degrade the more you drive and each time you hit an object.

 

I also think we need to have car batteries. You say limit the availability of fuel. Can't we essentially do that (and easier) with various quality of batteries? We've all seen the quality of canned food in SA. Surely they can do the same for batteries which will affect voltage/lifespan.

 

One thing i'd like to see are cars that are beyond repair and may only drive X distance before they become obsolete. They are able to drive 1-2km before they just break down and die forever. Another way to increase total cars on a server without trying to make fuel super rare. Throw 50 or more of these bastards on a server.

 

EDIT: Also... THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOuWTsvVuBM

The problem I have with vehicles in the mod is that they are the end-game, basically. You have a vehicle, and that's it. You don't need to maintain it, look after it, whatever. Just drive it into the woods somewhere and then drive it wherever you want thereafter. I mean, honestly. Fuel is a non-issue. There are so many magically refilling fuel tanks all over the world that you can safely drive there.

 

And getting SEEN in a vehicle is a good way to get shot. And then your vehicle stolen. because vehicles are already super-rare and require a stupid amount of maintenance to get running, a working vehicle is a goldmine. At least, in the vanilla game.

 

But if vehicles were more common, and had to be maintained to keep going, at least we might see a shift away from the 'horde vehicles in the north' metagame that means that no single goddamn vehicle will ever spawn on the server because they're all stashed in some trees on the other side of the map where no one will ever find them.

 

Vehicles are basically the only non-renewable resource in the game. Everything else spawns in. But a single clan can effectively put a stranglehold on an entire server's vehicles, with no penalty. They don't have to worry about fuel for them, or any maintenance, really. Just hide them in the woods, use when needed. And everyone else in the server goes without.

 

 

 

Whereas with this new system, a newbie would have a chance of repairing a vehicle. And getting a vehicle running wouldn't be the one-in-a-million chance of finding an entire car chassis that is capable of being repaired, but rather, the one-in-a-million chance of finding a jerry can with fuel in it. Which is a much more stable, less abusable system than the one at present. Especially seeing how fuel cans can't be horded and removed from the spawn tables.