[SA] Simple mechanic for stopping one form of 'ghosting'

[Xianyu 820]

No one likes ghosting. Nobody anywhere. Well, except the people who abuse it.

 

In short, 'ghosting' is logging out of a server, moving to a position behind where your target is, and then logging back in and killing them. It's a really garbage, exploitive move that takes advantage of the hive system and is the reason I play solely on private hives.

 

Nobody likes it.

 

But I have a simple solution to curb the first type of ghosting: IE. Logging out, going to another server, moving, and then returning to the original server in a new position.

 

The simple fix is that if you voluntarily leave a server by pressing the 'quit' button in the menu, you are locked out of that specific server for ten minutes.

 

 

 

I can already hear the arguments against it, and they go something like this:

 

But what if I want to go do something and have to log out?

 

It can still be abused by closing the game without using the quit button!

 

 

 

 

First rebuke: It's ten goddamn minutes. If you need to log out of a server for some reason, then chances are it'll take you more than ten minutes. Go get a drink. Go take a piss. Listen to two songs. Ten minutes gone. It's nothing. It's just not long enough of a time period to get up in arms about.

 

Second rebuke: Yes, you could close the game without hitting the 'quit' button by closing the entire program. You could probably macro a key to do that for you. It's probably not that damn hard. But to 'ghost', the person would have to quit that server, without using the cancel button, log into another server, move, and then return to the original server so that he could be behind his target. He would kill his target, most likely. But he would also be deliberately circumventing anti-ghosting measures. And that would be something that I think would earn him the ire of game moderaters. Simply put, they would be cheating, and it would be within the full rights of the DayZ team to ban such a person if he did it repeatedly.

 

 

 

The other concern I can see being raised is 'well it'll harm people who get disconnections!'. Which it can't. The suggestion is to have the 10 minute problem only if you leave voluntarily. It can't 'accidentally' catch an innocent unless said innocent 'accidentally' enters another server after 'accidentally' crashing his game and then he 'accidentally' logs in behind his target.

 

 

 

Yes, people can still ghost with this system. I'm not going to explain how but it's not too difficult to noodle it all out. This suggestion just curbs the most common form of 'ghosting'.

 

 

So, no complex tracking system. No new mechanics. Just lock someone out of a server for a mere ten minutes  if they voluntarily leave it. You can't trigger it by disconnecting if your net sucks. And you can't 'accidentally' ghost. And it gives game moderaters the quite clear evidence of intent to game the system by any user abusing this.

[Chris529 380]

I think it would be fair to lock you out no matter how you disconnected (I say this because if you crash often enough for the wait to be a big problem, maybe you should look into WHY you are crashing in the first place). It sucks if you crash but you can easily just join another server, and either stay there or come back when the 10 mins is up. It could be 5 minutes instead of 10, just to make it less harsh but it would still be pretty effective. But even 15 minutes would still not warrant complaints. Oh great, you have nothing interesting to do for 15 minutes while you wait to get back into the game to do something exciting, such as running around for hours looking for rabbits and camps.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Chris529

[Xianyu 820]

I think it would be fair to lock you out no matter how you disconnected (I say this because if you crash often enough for the wait to be a big problem, maybe you should look into WHY you are crashing in the first place). It sucks if you crash but you can easily just join another server, and either stay there or come back when the 10 mins is up. It could be 5 minutes instead of 10, just to make it less harsh but it would still be pretty effective. But even 15 minutes would still not warrant complaints. Oh great, you have nothing interesting to do for 15 minutes while you wait to get back into the game to do something exciting, such as running around for hours looking for rabbits and camps.

I considered 5 minutes, but... between the server-hopping needed, five minutes wouldn't even be noticed by most ghosters.

 

Also, I get kicked all the time for 'high ping', because I live in what must be the worst place in the WORLD for getting ping to anywhere.

 

350MS to america. Baseline. Maybe 300 on a good day. I regularly get kicked out of Australian servers in the same state.

[Chris529 380]

I considered 5 minutes, but... between the server-hopping needed, five minutes wouldn't even be noticed by most ghosters.

 

Also, I get kicked all the time for 'high ping', because I live in what must be the worst place in the WORLD for getting ping to anywhere.

 

350MS to america. Baseline. Maybe 300 on a good day. I regularly get kicked out of Australian servers in the same state.

What if being kicked for errors or high ping was excluded? Then the only problem left is when games crash to desktop (or any 'player is losing connection' disconnects) etc but that usually doesn't happen very often. Also yeah 5 mins is a bit short, probably takes 2 to switch servers. 10 or 15 would be ideal.

 

Also you don't have to quit the game to keep your character safe while you are busy. If there's still a lobby in SA (don't see why they would remove it) then you could just go that far and if you have to, minimize the game. Even if you are kicked for idling after ~5 minutes or so, it's a kick so you can come back anyway without being locked out. Yeah ghosters could just use this loophole to ghost, but they could also spike their ping to get kicked. It's just most are probably too lazy to jump through hoops.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Chris529

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

They should make it so every time you close the game for any reason, you can't play for 72 hours. PROBLEM SOLVED.

[fluxley 2228]

Would be more effective if it prevented players from joining any other server on the hive for 10 minutes. otherwise they can just use the 10 minutes to relocate.  this would also hinder those that server hop just to cherry pick gear from multiple servers and server hopping spawn campers etc.

[Xianyu 820]

Would be more effective if it prevented players from joining any other server on the hive for 10 minutes. otherwise they can just use the 10 minutes to relocate.  this would also hinder those that server hop just to cherry pick gear from multiple servers and server hopping spawn campers etc.

I... yes.

 

That's kinda true.

 

But it would also limit on joining your friends in select circumstances. Not enough to actually be a problem, but enough for server-hoppers to latch on to and screech 'THIS WON'T WORK!' so that it doesn't go through.

 

It makes a whole fucking heap of sense, though.

[enforcer1975 1111]

No one likes ghosting. Nobody anywhere. Well, except the people who abuse it.

 

In short, 'ghosting' is logging out of a server, moving to a position behind where your target is, and then logging back in and killing them. It's a really garbage, exploitive move that takes advantage of the hive system and is the reason I play solely on private hives.

 

Nobody likes it.

 

But I have a simple solution to curb the first type of ghosting: IE. Logging out, going to another server, moving, and then returning to the original server in a new position.

 

The simple fix is that if you voluntarily leave a server by pressing the 'quit' button in the menu, you are locked out of that specific server for ten minutes.

 

 

Make it simpler without blocking a player...if a player reconnects to a server his last location and time loggged out ( let's take your 10 minutes ) is checked. If the player changed his/her location in this time frame he/she will be spawned to the last known position on the server ignoring the position that was in the connection info. It can be used as a countdown timer f.e. on disconnect timeout for player x minutes, on reconnect check time, if less than 10 minutes check if new position = old position, if both are the same proceed if not goto last known position at logout...kind of like that.

 

Or simply a character per server...is what if would prefer to keep the world a better place with the optionto move to another server in case of a shutdown. That would also support regulars in building their life without the disturbance of KoSers who try to disturb others anyway.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Enforcer

[Korsbaek 1778]

Hmm... I LIKE IT!

 

Fuck ghosters! 

[fluxley 2228]

Make it simpler without blocking a player...if a player reconnects to a server his last location and time loggged out ( let's take your 10 minutes ) is checked. If the player changed his/her location in this time frame he/she will be spawned to the last known position on the server ignoring the position that was in the connection info. It can be used as a countdown timer f.e. on disconnect timeout for player x minutes, on reconnect check time, if less than 10 minutes check if new position = old position, if both are the same proceed if not goto last known position at logout...kind of like that.

 

 

An exploit i can see with this is, i could have a camp within 10 minutes run of say the nwaf somewhere nice and out the way, go looting at the airfield on a different server, change back to my camp server, run to camp, drop all my gear off, then reconnect to the other server and effectively fast travel back to the airfield to do some more looting. i'm sure theres other ways it could be abused too.

[enforcer1975 1111]

There will alway be a way to tweak it so it's effective.

 

WTH is this supposed to mean? They had half a year of alpha testing and how much(?) experience in the mod...this is no excuse imo.

 

Please remember,

DayZ will be released as an ALPHA, This means that many planned features WILL be missing to start with, And those that are in may very well be broken.

Adding new content and fixing bugs will be a long process. And those that buy the game early should consider themselves testers first, players second.

[fluxley 2228]

? so you expect the standalone Alpha to be a finished product when its released?

 

..wait, do you think that was aimed at you? thats my signature.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Fluxley

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

It's not a terrible idea, but allow me point out a small flaw. If only voluntarily leaving would lock you out, then wouldn't someone who wanted to ghost servers just ctrl alt delete and end the process, or alt f4; thereby simulating a game crash, and therefore bypass your system manually?

Edited October 11, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[enforcer1975 1111]

I know it's your signature...but releasing a product as alpha after an alpha test is quite ( not ) funny don't you think? They did have a lot of time on their hands. On the other hand they also released ArmA 3 in a bad state after a long period of alpha and beta testing...so in don't expect that much.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I know it's your signature...but releasing a product as alpha after an alpha test is quite ( not ) funny don't you think? They did have a lot of time on their hands. On the other hand they also released ArmA 3 in a bad state after a long period of alpha and beta testing...so in don't expect that much.

 

We are the alpha testers. They have pre-alpha testing, which is to establish the public alpha build. After that, the people who buy into alpha access will basically be the alpha test group. It's still going to change a lot after initial release. DayZ has only had one year of full scale development. They absolutely have not had a lot of time on their hands. It only seems that way because you've been waiting for it. Just google any game's development timeline. Most companies would not have even announced a game this early on.

Edited October 11, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[fluxley 2228]

I know it's your signature...but releasing a product as alpha after an alpha test is quite ( not ) funny don't you think? They did have a lot of time on their hands. On the other hand they also released ArmA 3 in a bad state after a long period of alpha and beta testing...so in don't expect that much.

 

They really haven't had a lot of time. much of the past 10 months has been spent making huge changes to the game engine and the rest of the time has been spent coding the core gameplay mechanics from scratch with very small scale testing, there has been no alpha test yet for the standalone. 

[AP_Norris 1018]

I think there would be better ways.

I often am stuck in a building and have to get off for about five minutes to wash dishes or have an unexpected violent Bowell movement.

But I guess I wouldn't really mind logging onto another if I do, or if I really want to stay on that server I could probably just go AFK I'm probably with friends if I have a server like that anyway.

[Inception. 9443]

The subject of this topic is not the Standalone but Xianyu's suggestion.

[Xianyu 820]

It's not a terrible idea, but allow me point out a small flaw. If only voluntarily leaving would lock you out, then wouldn't someone who wanted to ghost servers just ctrl alt delete and end the process, or alt f4; thereby simulating a game crash, and therefore bypass your system manually?

Did you even read the OP?

 

Go back and read it.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Did you even read the OP?

 

Go back and read it.

 

Yes, I did read it. SO basically - "the system can be easily dodged through a keystroke that is actually faster than using the quit button - therefore better for ghosting, so it's up to moderators to solve the problem."

 

Which is basically the same situation we have now. All I'm saying is that this wouldn't stop anyone from doing it, so what's the point? It's actually easier to suggest a context based log-in/log-out tracker that would show admins, or even automatically lock a player out for a few minutes, when someone ghosts. Think about it, you only need to know two pieces of info, which are tracked by the server already: your location, and your time of logout. So when a player returns to a specific server, the server could look at this information and ask a few qualifying questions to detect ghosting.

 

Does the log-in location match the previous log out location, or is it a fresh spawn? If yes to either, then ghosting has not occurred.

 

If no, then check the previous log-out time frame. If it is less than an hour, then the player has almost definitely ghosted, player should be locked out for 10 minutes or so. Admin dashboard would be alerted. If the last log out is more than 3 hours, then it's likely they just decided to play on another server for a while. Of course if the server has an active admin then they would also be privy to this information.

 

With your proposed system, it seems like only legit players are the ones who are punished. Who is more likely to ghost, the person who hits alt-f4, or the person who disconnects manually? Even then, it may take a person more than ten minutes to effectively ghost their target, due to the open world of DayZ. Engagements often happen at 500+ yards. A ten minute hike in another server would actually negate your measures anyway.

Edited October 12, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Xianyu 820]

Yes, I did read it. SO basically - "the system can be easily dodged through a keystroke that is actually faster than using the quit button - therefore better for ghosting, so it's up to moderators to solve the problem."

 

Which is basically the same situation we have now. All I'm saying is that this wouldn't stop anyone from doing it, so what's the point? It's actually easier to suggest a context based log-in/log-out tracker that would show admins, or even automatically lock a player out for a few minutes, when someone ghosts. Think about it, you only need to know two pieces of info, which are tracked by the server already: your location, and your time of logout. So when a player returns to a specific server, the server could look at this information and ask a few qualifying questions to detect ghosting.

 

Does the log-in location match the previous log out location, or is it a fresh spawn? If yes to either, then ghosting has not occurred.

 

If no, then check the previous log-out time frame. If it is less than an hour, then the player has almost definitely ghosted, player should be locked out for 10 minutes or so. Admin dashboard would be alerted. If the last log out is more than 3 hours, then it's likely they just decided to play on another server for a while. Of course if the server has an active admin then they would also be privy to this information.

 

With your proposed system, it seems like only legit players are the ones who are punished. Who is more likely to ghost, the person who hits alt-f4, or the person who disconnects manually? Even then, it may take a person more than ten minutes to effectively ghost their target, due to the open world of DayZ. Engagements often happen at 500+ yards. A ten minute hike in another server would actually negate your measures anyway.

Because that's COMPLICATED.

 

There's an old saying 'locks only keep out honest people'.

 

No matter what system you create, it's going to be able to be gamed. Someone will find a way around it. Locking someone out of a server for ten minutes after they voluntarily leave it 'criminalises' ghosting.

 

This is the same basic premise as putting a lock on your door. Sure, someone with a crowbar can break your door the fuck down. Someone can pick the lock. But anything they do leaves clear evidence that they were willfully violating the rules of the game, or, in this analogy, 'breaking the law', meaning that the mods, IE: the police, have clear evidence of intent to break the rules/law and can throw them in jail/ban them.

 

With this system not in place people can argue against a ban. They can make up bullshit excuses. But with this system in place, a mod can say 'so your game crashed, you logged into another server, moved a hundred metres, logged back in to the other server and killed the guy you were fighting? Right. *BAN*'

 

This is a suggestion for a simple stopgap.

 

Locks only keep out honest people.

[Wayze 549]

Why so complicated guys? Simple:

- Player joins server A

- Player leaves server A

- Player joins server B

-> Server A locks player from the server for a certain period of time

- Player leaves server B

-> Player has to wait a certain period of time until he is able to join server A

 

That way nobody is able to complain about being kicked from the game or anything else. Everyone is happy besides the people who actually server hop or the very, very, very low percentage of players who join a server, leave the server, join a new server, leave the new server and then within a short period of time join first server.

It will prevent most of the server hopping.

 

And additionally Dean has already mentioned that if you leave a server your character will stay on that server for a certain time. Server hoppers will risk their lifes by doing so.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Wayze

[AP_Norris 1018]

I was also thinking of having fort/ camp zones.

This is somehow determined by equipment & players & area to displace players logging into people's forts and stuff.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Why so complicated guys? Simple:

- Player joins server A

- Player leaves server A

- Player joins server B

-> Server A locks player from the server for a certain period of time

- Player leaves server B

-> Player has to wait a certain period of time until he is able to join server A

 

That way nobody is able to complain about being kicked from the game or anything else. Everyone is happy besides the people who actually server hop or the very, very, very low percentage of players who join a server, leave the server, join a new server, leave the new server and then within a short period of time join first server.

It will prevent most of the server hopping.

 

And additionally Dean has already mentioned that if you leave a server your character will stay on that server for a certain time. Server hoppers will risk their lifes by doing so.

 

Or just a timer that you can switch servers only after you have been connected for at least 15 minutes. Most stay longer anyway.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Enforcer

[Wayze 549]

Or just a timer that you can switch servers only after you have been connected for at least 15 minutes. Most stay longer anyway.

People with a bad ping will have a hard life. If a server is laggy they always would have to wait 15 minutes to switch to another one.

 

But actually that would prevent server looting (however you call it), too. Maybe 15 minutes are too much but it would be pretty simple. On the other side there would be probably some innocent casualities.