How to do the Bandit / Hero System in Standalone

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

If someone could pass this on to the DayZ Standalone Devs I'd greatly appreciate it!  They still need to think about how they want to do the Hero / Bandit Status!

 

 

I guess I was naive that I though the humanity system might work in the DayZ Mod......lol

 

What I've come to figure out is that the DayZ Mod is 95% KOS.  About the only time it isn't KOS is when the person you meet doesn't have a weapon, and you do, and you decide not to shoot them.  Then when that person does get a weapon, there's a 95% chance they're going to shoot you in the back.....lol

 

And before you ask, yes I have played the DayZ Mod quite a while.  95% of the people I meet attempt to KOS.  Since I've started playing......I've only met ONE person who didn't KOS because we outnumbered him 3 to 1, we let him live, only to have him come back and base camp us and KOS later.  Our group tried being heros in WarZ too, but that doesn't work either.  We ended up being KOS like everyone else in the game.  It's always going to be KOS unless something is done to fix it.

 

If you want to KOS, you should go play COD or BF.  KOS ruins what this game "should" be.

 

This is a survival game, this is not COD or BF.  It's supposed to be groups and individuals:

1.  Surviving solo and laying low, maybe hunting individual bandits for loot

2.  Forming groups and building communities and securing areas from bandits

3.  Bandits preying on 1 and 2

 

But with KOS, all you get is 3.  Lots and lots and lots of KOS 3.  Everyone you meet is a bandit, regardless of the skin they wear.

 

There's no depth.  There's no unique experience.  If you see someone, you MUST shoot them immediately or they will eventually kill you.  You can't help anyone.  You can't trust new people even if they have a hero skin.  There's just looting, and killing whoever you see.  It's COD with annoying looting work involved.

 

For those of you that say "that's how it would be in real life, all KOS".  No, it wouldn't.  I have a fairly sizeable gun collection.  If the shit went down (zombies or otherwise), I would NOT be shooting to death every family I saw just so I could grab a few backpacks or cans of beans from them.  I might politely ask for some food, or to trade items, but if they said no I'd move on.  I would not be out randomly murdering every person I saw.  Not everyone is a KOS kiddie.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

If they implemented at least SOME of the stuff below, it would make the game a much more unique experience.  If you see a hero you could be fairly sure they wouldn't just pump bullets into you for your beans.  If you see a civilian, you would be wary because you don't know what they would do.  If you saw a bandit you'd know they were hostile.  For the bandits, you can still keep KOSing your way to happy land all you want.  But for the REST of us that want a more unique and varied game experience, we'd get something additional to do (like helping new spawns, teaming up with other heros, securing cities so friendly players can loot, etc).

 

If they did this, it would be a GREAT start to getting a diverse community of heros and bandits.  With players all playing "their" role.  It wouldn't be all KOS.  We could actually do a lot of fun and unique stuff with it.  Heros help people.  Bandits killing people.  Civilians running around not knowing what to do.....lol

 

If none of the below is implemented, we can all plan on the DayZ Standalone being another big KOS suckfest.  The stupid item degradation isn't going to stop some antisocial kid from shooting everyone they see.  If the Standalone is KOS, you can pretty much expect that DayZ Standalone will last until the next "cool" zombie game comes out.  Then it's BUBYE DayZ Standalone and on to the next game hoping it will be more fun than a KOS suckfest.

 

 

 

Here's what they should do in the Standalone to FIX the KOS situation:

 

Identifying Bandits / Heros (since the clothing system will remove the normal hero / bandit skins)

1.  Bandits must wear masks.  It's part of their skin and can't be removed.  If a bandit finds a cooler mask, they can pick it up and use it.  Maybe have different "level" masks so the cooler ones are available for higher level bandits.

2.  Heros must wear armbands.  It's part of their skin and can't be removed.  The color of the armband indicates how high level hero they are.

3.  Fresh spawns with no humanity wear white armbands.  It's part of their skin and can't be removed until they're a hero or bandit.

 

Humanity Gain / Loss

1.  Killing a hero is -1000 humanity

2.  Killing a civilian is -500 humanity

3.  Killing a bandit is +250 humanity

* If you are a hero and you kill 2 heros or 2 civilians in a row, it doubles the humanity loss.  That will fix those individuals who KOS and are mixing hero and bandit kills and somehow manage to get a Hero level by randomly KOSing everyone you see.

* There is NO humanity gained for killing zombies, healing, dying, or giving items to other people.  That will prevent KOS bandits from running their score up to hero level by giving friends bloodbags or killing zombies.

* Humanity is 100% driven by who you kill.  Kill friendly and neutral people = you're a bandit.  Kill bandits = you're a hero.

 

Benefits / Drawbacks

1.  There could be some benefits for being a hero.  Maybe a safe zone where you could put your base where you can't get base camped.  Maybe some increased stats or something.  Maybe a safe zone so you can do trades and interact with other players that isn't accessible by bandits.  Maybe you get the ability to spawn at your base.

 

and / or

 

2.  There could be some drawbacks for being a bandit.  Maybe your base is more noticeable / easy to find.  Maybe you have some lowered stats.

* Not anything game breaking, just some benefits for heros or drawbacks for bandits.  I'm leaning more towards benefits for heros.

 

Name Changing

1.  Should not be allowed

 

or

 

2.  Should be limited to maybe once per month

* Those of you that need to change your name once a day, need to go get some ADD meds.....lol  In reality, you wouldn't change YOUR name once a day.  You're Bob on Monday, Jim on Tuesday, Chad on Thursday.........I don't think so.

 

Vehicle Stealing

1.  Vehicles should have keys once you repair them.  The keys will be an actual inventory item.  Your vehicle will have your name on it and your hero level when you aim the crosshairs at the vehicle.

2.  You can "hotwire" a car if you have the tools, but it takes a couple of mins of standing there.  Then the vehicle is now tied to whoever stole it, and they get a set of new keys for the vehicle, and the old keys disappear.

3.  If you steal a vehicle, it gives the same amount of humanity as killing a player (-1000 hero, -500 civilian, +250 bandit)

 

 

If they did this, it would be a GREAT start to getting a diverse community of heros and bandits.  With players all playing "their" role.  It wouldn't be all KOS.  We could actually do a lot of fun and unique stuff with it.  Heros help people.  Bandits killing people.  Civilians running around not knowing what to do.....lol

 

 

If someone could pass this on to the DayZ Standalone Devs I'd greatly appreciate it!  They still need to think about how they want to do the Hero / Bandit Status!

 

[applejaxc 2500]

No, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. KoS can be done for roleplay reasons

2. Forced clothing attire completely destroys the very point of scavengeable clothing

3. Any humanity system, no matter how airtight, will never survive online gamer's attempts to exploit and break it

4. KoS will never disappear if Teamsuck, Skype, and Steam Chat are usable; imagine how difficult coordinating your cross-map helicopter bandit raids would be without the ungodly ability to communicate from fresh spawn to everyone everywhere?

[Frytek 130]

Didnt even want to read the whole wall, as I see nothing more but butthurt about dieing.

If you want something more then try out a private server with same players playing and TS. Problem solved. Or play my little pony, Im pretty sure your character wont get hurt there.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

No, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. KoS can be done for roleplay reasons  What about players that don't want to be forced to KOS and want to play as heros?

2. Forced clothing attire completely destroys the very point of scavengeable clothing  This doesn't change your cloting choices, just adds 1 permanent aspect to it.

3. Any humanity system, no matter how airtight, will never survive online gamer's attempts to exploit and break it  So your solution is do nothing?

4. KoS will never disappear if Teamsuck, Skype, and Steam Chat are usable; imagine how difficult coordinating your cross-map helicopter bandit raids would be without the ungodly ability to communicate from fresh spawn to everyone everywhere?  There's no way to fix that short of making the anti-cheat program trigger if someone is using Teamspeak, Skype, or Steam Chat.  That will never happen.

 

So your input is to crap on the idea in general, and offer no useful input on how to help fix the KOS culture of this game.  Thanks!

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Didnt even want to read the whole wall, as I see nothing more but butthurt about dieing.

If you want something more then try out a private server with same players playing and TS. Problem solved. Or play my little pony, Im pretty sure your character wont get hurt there.

 

Spoken like a true KOS kiddie.  Go play some COD or BF bud.  You can KOS all you want there.  If I want to KOS I play those games.

 

We're looking for something more in depth here.

 

Of course the KOS kiddies don't want any changes that would impact the KOS culture.  Color me surprised......lol

Edited October 1, 2013 by 1S1K-Airborne

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

 

If you want to KOS, you should go play COD or BF.  KOS ruins what this game "should" be.

 

This line is starting to get extremely old. People need to realize that if KOS was removed, DayZ would suck ass.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

So your input is to crap on the idea in general, and offer no useful input on how to help fix the KOS culture of this game.  Thanks!

His input was quite logical actually.

 

You can't just shoot down everyone whom opposes your idea because you don't like it.

 

Forced Attire = Useless and unrealistic

Humanity System = Exploitable, unrealistic, and a large contributor to the KOS problem

 

 

If you want to be a hero, be a hero. It's very possible, but you can't just go balls deep into every situation thinking "I'm a hero!" and then bitch when you get shot by a bandit.

[enforcer1975 1111]

We don't really need a bandit skin let alone a hero skin since or any kind of system imo as a lot already know can be obtained by abusing the system ( playing a bandit doc gets you a hero skin although you play as part of a bandit group, saving players by killing others will give you a bandit skin although you had good intentions etc. ). Dress as you like, your behaviour will be judged accordingly. Applejacx already brought it to the point. You can't counter everything with scripts.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

We don't really need a bandit skin let alone a hero skin since or any kind of system imo as a lot already know can be obtained by abusing the system ( playing a bandit doc gets you a hero skin although you play as part of a bandit group, saving players by killing others will give you a bandit skin although you had good intentions etc. ). Dress as you like, your behaviour will be judged accordingly. Applejacx already brought it to the point. You can't counter everything with scripts.

^ This.

 

Hell, I play as a bandit on the public hive now. I used to be a hero. I have over 60k Humanity on the public hive, which makes me look like a massive dick when I shoot someone.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

We don't really need a bandit skin let alone a hero skin since or any kind of system imo as a lot already know can be obtained by abusing the system ( playing a bandit doc gets you a hero skin although you play as part of a bandit group, saving players by killing others will give you a bandit skin although you had good intentions etc. ). Dress as you like, your behaviour will be judged accordingly. Applejacx already brought it to the point. You can't counter everything with scripts.

 

Humanity Gain / Loss

1.  Killing a hero is -1000 humanity

2.  Killing a civilian is -500 humanity

3.  Killing a bandit is +250 humanity

* If you are a hero and you kill 2 heros or 2 civilians in a row, it doubles the humanity loss.  That will fix those individuals who KOS and are mixing hero and bandit kills and somehow manage to get a Hero level by randomly KOSing everyone you see.

* There is NO humanity gained for killing zombies, healing, dying, or giving items to other people.  That will prevent KOS bandits from running their score up to hero level by giving friends bloodbags or killing zombies.

* Humanity is 100% driven by who you kill.  Kill friendly and neutral people = you're a bandit.  Kill bandits = you're a hero.

 

Also with the +250 humanity for killing a bandit, you wouldn't be working your way toward hero by killing a few bandits.  You'd have to kill 5 bandits for every 1 hero you killed just to start making your way back to hero.

Edited October 1, 2013 by 1S1K-Airborne

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

If you want to be a hero, be a hero. It's very possible, but you can't just go balls deep into every situation thinking "I'm a hero!" and then bitch when you get shot by a bandit.

 

This would make sense if SOME players in the servers actually played hero.  Nobody does.  Everyone just shoots first.  There is absolutely no reason not to just shoot first.  I don't care about getting killed by a bandit, but it does annoy the crap out of me when another hero lights me up 100% of the time for absolutely no reason.

 

What I keep hearing here is a lot of KOS kiddies arguing that they want the KOS culture to transfer over to the standalone.  If it does, I won't be playing it long because KOS in this game is super boring and annoying.  If I want to play KOS all day, I'll go play COD or BF.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

This would make sense if SOME players in the servers actually played hero.  Nobody does.  Everyone just shoots first.  There is absolutely no reason not to just shoot first.  I don't care about getting killed by a bandit, but it does annoy the crap out of me when another hero lights me up 100% of the time for absolutely no reason.

 

What I keep hearing here is a lot of KOS kiddies arguing that they want the KOS culture to transfer over to the standalone.  If it does, I won't be playing it long because KOS in this game is super boring and annoying.  If I want to play KOS all day, I'll go play COD or BF.

Just because someone shoots people, doesn't make them a "CoD kiddie". Not by a long shot.

[colekern 1364]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of forced clothing. One better idea I've seen was different animations for hero's, survivors, and bandits.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of forced clothing. One better idea I've seen was different animations for hero's, survivors, and bandits.

 

^^^^^ Gets the point of this conversation.  Is offering constructive discussion.

 

Interesting.  Just not understanding what "animations" you mean.  Tell us more about that.

[applejaxc 2500]

So your input is to crap on the idea in general, and offer no useful input on how to help fix the KOS culture of this game.  Thanks!

 

Don't throw a fucking hissy fit because someone disagrees with you.

[Frytek 130]

See, you proven ypurself a butthurt. You dont seem to realise what is that game about. You want to force people way you want. Screw you. I play how I want, its a sandbox game. One question before you call me KoS kiddie again because of lack of any arguments. What would you do in this game, if noone shoots anybody. It would look like that. Hm... another hrde of zombies. Lets kill more. Or drive around people to supermarkets for food. And more guns to shoot zeds. Screw it Ima drive right to the firestation in NWAF. Zombies would aggro anyways.

There you go, complete bulshit and nonsense. Of course if you could brainwash all ppl to stop rivalisation, or temptation to have better stuff, or being scared of losing gear.

You should feel bad now, and dont call me KOS kiddie in reply. Be constructive at least.

[colekern 1364]

^^^^^ Gets the point of this conversation.  Is offering constructive discussion.

 

Interesting.  Just not understanding what "animations" you mean.  Tell us more about that.

It was a thread made a few months back. I'll have to find it. I'll post when I get it.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Don't throw a fucking hissy fit because someone disagrees with you.

 

Nope, just pointing out that you crapped on the idea, and didn't offer any other solutions.  Thanks for your input!!!  Happy smiley face yay!   <-----better?

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

There you go, complete bulshit and nonsense. Of course if you could brainwash all ppl to stop rivalisation, or temptation to have better stuff, or being scared of losing gear.

You should feel bad now, and dont call me KOS kiddie in reply. Be constructive at least.

 

You aren't offering anything constructive to the argument.  You just want to shoot every single person you see, hence the KOS Kiddie title.

 

I don't care what KOS kiddies think, trying to talk to the adults here.   Shhhhhh, the adults are talking.

Edited October 1, 2013 by 1S1K-Airborne

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

It was a thread made a few months back. I'll have to find it. I'll post when I get it.

 

Cool, thanks man!

[Frytek 130]

I have to say you have a mental problem. Nothing more to add. You are a shame for your country that it wasted money on you. Anyways I see you dont get what free opinion is. If you are here to get only wows an beans then you are in a wrong place. Dont bother with replying and calling me once again with your mindless "Kos kiddie". Not going to waste my time and eyes reading horse shit you are going to write.

[ArmyofSolo 1]

I think the KoS Kiddies are missing the point of Airborne's idea.  If you want to play like a bandit and kill people on sight, you could still do that.  You just couldn't play like a bandit but look like a hero (you would look like a bandit, which is what you actually are).  What the heck is wrong with that?

 

There will still be bandits and hero's, but the bandits will just have to live with the consequences of their actions.  So what if they look like a bandit!  They can still KoS all they want, that doesn't change a thing.  \

 

Here is what the KoS kiddies are really saying when they oppose something like this..... "I like to kill people on sight.  Because I have very little skill, I like to appear as if I am a hero so it is easier for me to KoS.  I will do whatever it takes to manipulate the system and even brag about my 60k humanity, so I can look like a hero.  I'm really a bandit though because KoS is all I know how to do.  Please don't take that away from me, because I suck at games that require thought and/or skill.  CoD is too hard for me because everyone kills on sight and looks the same.  If I have to look like a bandit, then hero's will try and kill me.  I don't like that idea because I suck at games.  I am going to go and make some more my little pony banners now while I try and put down good ideas in the dayz forums."

Edited October 1, 2013 by ArmyofSolo

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

OP, I think you've made a mistake by going into the whole KoS thing. The thread will inevitably turn into the same old discussion and get locked soon.

As for the actual humanity system, I don't believe a skin system is useless as some people are claiming. Just because the underlying system in the mod is currently exploitable it doesn't mean the whole idea of different skins doesn't and never would work. Of course, skins would be a problem in the standalone given the new clothing system but there still needs to be a way to visually differentiate between bandits and heroes. Not necessarily by forcing bandits to wear masks, that's too much imo. Something more subtle would be better. Different animations for different humanity levels is one of the better ideas I've heard so far.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

I think the KoS Kiddies are missing the point of Airborne's idea.  If you want to play like a bandit and kill people on sight, you could still do that.  You just couldn't play like a bandit but look like a hero (you would look like a bandit, which is what you actually are).  What the heck is wrong with that?

 

There will still be bandits and hero's, but the bandits will just have to live with the consequences of their actions.  So what if they look like a bandit!  They can still KoS all they want, that doesn't change a thing.  \

 

Here is what the KoS kiddies are really saying when they oppose something like this..... "I like to kill people on sight.  Because I have very little skill, I like to appear as if I am a hero so it is easier for me to KoS.  I will do whatever it takes to manipulate the system and even brag about my 60k humanity, so I can look like a hero.  I'm really a bandit though because KoS is all I know how to do.  Please don't take that away from me, because I suck at games that require thought and/or skill.  CoD is too hard for me because everyone kills on sight and looks the same.  If I have to look like a bandit, then hero's will try and kill me.  I don't like that idea because I suck at games.  I am going to go and make some more my little pony banners now while I try and put down good ideas in the dayz forums."

 

+1

 

This guy gets it.  KOS kiddies don't want any repercussions for KOS.  KOS is the simplest least hard way to play this game.  You see someone, you kill them.  I could teach a retarded chimp how to KOS.  Here chimpy chimpy.........see something move.......shoot it.

 

Actually having to worry about having Hero status and being discriminating in your target selection, that is MUCH MUCH harder.  If you run around a corner and see someone you can't immediately pull the trigger, because it might be a civ or a hero.  But it's impossible to do if there isn't a good humanity system setup in the game.

 

I got enough of the KOS in WarZ.  We KOS'd all day long because there were no repercussions for doing it......OR no benefits for not doing it.  In WarZ if you came within 400 meters of Smallville, someone on our team would shove a sniper round up your ass no matter if you were a hero or bandit.  If you didn't KOS someone, they would KOS you.  I'm hoping this game is BETTER than WarZ and actually has a useful humanity system that adds DEPTH to the game.  <----------adult concept here kiddies.........if you don't understand this sentence please keep your kiddie comments to yourself :)

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

OP, I think you've made a mistake by going into the whole KoS thing. The thread will inevitably turn into the same old discussion and get locked soon.

As for the actual humanity system, I don't believe a skin system is useless as some people are claiming. Just because the underlying system in the mod is currently exploitable it doesn't mean the whole idea of different skins doesn't and never would work. Of course, skins would be a problem in the standalone given the new clothing system but there still needs to be a way to visually differentiate between bandits and heroes. Not necessarily by forcing bandits to wear masks, that's too much imo. Something more subtle would be better. Different animations for different humanity levels is one of the better ideas I've heard so far.

 

So free speech is curtailed here?  Please tell me the mods here aren't like the mods in the WarZ forums.....lol  WarZ mod = gestapo goon  :(

 

They can't do skins with the removable clothing in the Standalone.  I'm just hoping they have enough green or brown clothing in the game.  I don't want to run around with a dayglow orange safety vest on all the time....lol

 

Masks and armbands would work, regardless of what other clothing you were wearing.  It could be just armbands, or just hats, or whatever.  It has to be something visual, if you have to go shake hands with a person before you know if they're a bandit, well that's pointless and you're going to go right back to KOS culture.

 

I don't get what the animations would be?  Friendly hand wave that only heros can do?  Middle finger gestures for bandits?  Can you explain more?