1.8 Makes Melee Nearly Pointless

[StrangeOrange 15]

Nearly.

 

I'm just going to cut to the chase here- because zombies now do not have to stop before switching from their run to attack animation, they can hit you as soon as they come into range. While this makes sense in a way, it seems that the range of melee weapons has either not been increased to match this new difficulty or some other factor is hindering the use of melee weapons. Now I want to make it clear that I'm speaking about the machete only, since that's the only weapon I've tested this with so far. But it used to be that I could backpedal, wait for the zombie to approach me, and then in the very small time window between his stopping and attacking, I could hit him and either hurt him, miss, or kill him. Now, it appears that the zombies have massively quickened attack times and probably even a longer range as well. This totally breaks melee because now a zombie can not only attack me before I can attack him, but has better range altogether. There is little point to melee.

 

Here is the crux of the issue for those who do not wish to read a wall of text: Zombies have quicker attack times and will almost instantly hit you when you are within their range, and their range seems to be larger than your melee range.

 

I'm not asking that machetes make you invincible and unhittable, but I expect two things: Your range with a machete should be longer than that of a zombie's, allowing you to attack first; and that you should at least be able to reasonably defend yourself and not get hit at all with the machete or any other melee weapon if you have been diligent and patient enough to learn its nuances and how to use it masterfully. At this current point in time you cannot use a melee weapon AT ALL without being hit. In other words, if you try to melee, you WILL BE HIT. The extreme drop in infection rates is just a consolation at this point.

 

I hope they fix this in a soon-upcoming hotfix/patch because right now melee is an untenable combat style completely.

 

What do you all think?

Edited September 18, 2013 by StrangeOrange

[Dagwood 680]

Only tried the hatchet and it seemed to work fine. Also try coming at them from angles and not head on. Assuming you're in a barn or warehouse of course.

[weparo 613]

So-so. You have a valid point, but the best way is still to sneak up from behind an whack 'em in the back of their heads..... works every time.

Or aggro and run into a tree or bush and whack em from safety. I'll assume that indoors is no problem, right?

[kichilron 8550]

The only real reliable melee-weapon in my oppinion is still the Hatchet. Might be bugged - or maybe the melee-system of the Machete and the Bats is completely different and I couldn't figure it out yet.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Indoors I find that you have about a half second window where the zed is within melee range before you're in range of their attack. I find it's best to just not risk fighting outdoors.

 

The only real reliable melee-weapon in my oppinion is still the Hatchet. Might be bugged - or maybe the melee-system of the Machete and the Bats is completely different and I couldn't figure it out yet.

 

IMO the machete is the best melee weapon. It's range is shorter than the hatchet but it does much more damage.

Edited September 18, 2013 by mZLY

[weparo 613]

Indoors I find that you have about a half second window where the zed is within melee range before you're in range of their attack. I find it's best to just not risk fighting outdoors.

 

 

IMO the machete is the best melee weapon. It's range is shorter than the hatchet but it does much more damage.

 

hmm. If you wait for him to come maybe. have him walk in, go up close quickly, hit him and retreat. For me that is a 95% effective way to get them w/o getting hit.

[kichilron 8550]

IMO the machete is the best melee weapon. It's range is shorter than the hatchet but it does much more damage.

 

 

I have to confess that I barely used the Machete in 1.8

[weparo 613]

Yeah, I use Hatchet all the time too. but what did you mean with more damage? hatchet is one "shot" kill.

[StrangeOrange 15]

hmm. If you wait for him to come maybe. have him walk in, go up close quickly, hit him and retreat. For me that is a 95% effective way to get them w/o getting hit.

 

This USED to work in 1.7.7.1 but does not anymore because of the reasons I stated. I just shouldn't have to exploit trees to fight outside like I used to.

[peter.jerz@gmx.net 6]

For me melee works better than ever, don't know why. Hatchet's range should be better than that of a zombie, and machete's even more if you consider how long they are.

[StrangeOrange 15]

For me melee works better than ever, don't know why. Hatchet's range should be better than that of a zombie, and machete's even more if you consider how long they are.

Should be but it isn't. A zombie will attack you before you are able to hit them with the machete. This even happens indoors if you don't have a reaction time lower than your ping.

Edited September 18, 2013 by StrangeOrange

[weparo 613]

Should be but it isn't. A zombie will attack you before you are able to hit them with the machete. This even happens indoors if you don't have a reaction time lower than your ping.

 

Well, that explains it hahaha. Usually my ping is terrible!

[colekern 1364]

Should be but it isn't. A zombie will attack you before you are able to hit them with the machete. This even happens indoors if you don't have a reaction time lower than your ping.

 

Zombies are controlled client-side, ping has nothing to do with it.

[iegle 117]

Choosing to fight with a melee weapon rather than a ranged weapon should come with consequences.  Taking on a zed(s) in hand-to-hand combat should be risky.  You don't want the risk?  Use ranged weapons with the drawbacks that come with those.

 

I think it is fine.

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

There is also the problem that if you swing your melee weapon at a zed and it doesn't register/or zed glitches at you ....then most of the time every swing after that initial swing wont do anything but the zed is still hitting you.......you actually need to stop for a second or 2 and then swing again and hopefully it hits ( in that 2 or so seconds you've been hit several times) . Whilst not a massive problem ...it is annoying when the zeds shouldn't have hit you in the first place because it should have already been dead ...but now your bleeding ....or infected and lost a good bit of health from the actual zed hits....not to mention if you where very low health every zed hit could be your last as it may kill/knock you out and you die ...dieing to a zed that hits you after you hatchet it because it didn't register the hatchet it would idd be annoying.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Massicor

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

Choosing to fight with a melee weapon rather than a ranged weapon should come with consequences.  Taking on a zed(s) in hand-to-hand combat should be risky.  You don't want the risk?  Use ranged weapons with the drawbacks that come with those.

 

I think it is fine.

 

I hope that when you talk about ranged weapons you don't mean guns...because guns bring more zeds and that defeats the purpose of silently killing the zeds with melee to not alert more zeds....especially if your trapped in a house with the only way out blocked by several zeds...you dont want to fire bullets and alert even more zeds to that building nor waste your bullets unless absolutely needed (meaning you have no melee weapon to kill them instead).

Edited September 18, 2013 by Massicor

[entspeak 374]

Melee is certainly much harder now and, particularly with the Viral zeds - since they can take more than one hit, engaging zeds is likely to result in you taking a hit, if not an all out pummeling. What this means, is that you have to - when possible - engage in melee in controlled circumstances. Technically, I do two things, zoom in and hold my breath - which I have assigned to separate keys. Like any other weapon, it's more accurate when you hold your breath. Swinging for me is often a click-click, right and then left mouse button move.

And, of course, the biggest thing is not to get aggro in the first place, but that's not always possible. In aggro instances, I try to get zeds into positions where I have more control. For example, I will run around a corner, spin and wait for the running zed to run try taking the corner... a well timed swing will get them mid-run. The other thing to try - since you know they can reach you is to lure them into an attack. Backpedal in attack stance and when they get close to range, shift to a backward run. If well timed, they will attack and miss and then you shift forward and swing. Or, I charge them and sidestep/swing - much harder to do. Takes some good timing and I haven't quite mastered this yet. But I'm just learning the timing of these zeds. Practice makes perfect.

I also try to choose my path carefully so as not to get aggro or to take care of zeds that might pose a future problem before thy become one.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Yeah, I use Hatchet all the time too. but what did you mean with more damage? hatchet is one "shot" kill.

 

I think the machete does 12,000 damage.

[iegle 117]

I hope that when you talk about ranged weapons you don't mean guns...because guns bring more zeds and that defeats the purpose of silently killing the zeds with melee to not alert more zeds....especially if your trapped in a house with the only way out blocked by several zeds...you dont want to fire bullets and alert even more zeds to that building nor waste your bullets unless absolutely needed (meaning you have no melee weapon to kill them instead).

 

Yes, and that is one of the drawbacks that I referred to in the statement you quoted.  There are others too.

 

One easy foolproof solution to each situation will quickly render the game formulaic and dull.

[StrangeOrange 15]

I'm sorry for how I worded a previous post where I said "unless you have a reaction time lower than your ping". I wasn't trying to say that ping is a part of it- I was merely trying to say that you had to be so fast as to be not possible for a human to do. Basically, if you melee fight with a machete INSIDE A BUILDING now, you still have a great chance to get hit. It's terrible. Literally ALL they would have to do to fix this is increase the range on the machete and then we'll be fine again. My arms + machete should not be shorter than a zombie's arms. I'm not a little person (i.e. a dwarf).

[DemonGroover 8836]

I disagree since i now find the machete so overpowered in regards to zeds.  One hit kill means you should be able to take care of any number of zeds without alerting any more......indoors of course.

 

Attacking a zombie outside with a melee weapon has always been an exercise in randomness - you might get them first but more often than not they get a few cheeky hits in.

[TIC 1050]

I wished those melee weapons were more accurate..

[StrangeOrange 15]

I disagree since i now find the machete so overpowered in regards to zeds.  One hit kill means you should be able to take care of any number of zeds without alerting any more......indoors of course.

 

Attacking a zombie outside with a melee weapon has always been an exercise in randomness - you might get them first but more often than not they get a few cheeky hits in.

Ok I'm being totally serious here and not trying to troll/offend you: Have you ever used the machete before?

 

The machete was honestly somewhat OP versus zeds in 1.7.7.1, but since they made it so your range is shorter than a Zed's and they can attack instantly after walking up to you they hit you more times than you hit them. Even indoors.

 

Attacking a zombie outside has NEVER been an exercise in randomness. They could always get a few hits in if your technique was a bit off, but for someone like me who has mastered the art of machete-jutsu (not trying to brag, at least not that much), you could use your skill to basically never get hit by a zed. At all. But now, you have no choice in melee but to be hit. You aren't given a choice and skill does not effect it whatsoever- and that is broken as hell and needs to be fixed.

Edited September 19, 2013 by StrangeOrange

[-Gews- 7443]

I was just thinking, if they wanted melee to be more effective, maybe they could make the melee weapons simulation = shotSpread or make them like KozliceShell.

 

In other words perhaps melee weapons could fire a short burst, increasing chances of hitting the head. Because, come on, even if you're walking it's pretty hard to miss something two feet in front of you with a machete.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Zombies are controlled client-side, ping has nothing to do with it.

 

It does. I was playing in the US 1.8 test server with 220 ping and taking damage before the zed's attack animation played among other weirdness.