The "Hardcore" base

[mercules 1290]

That's besides the point. The official version of DayZ will always be just that.

2 folks playing the same version of the mod (or SA), one in FPV, one in 3dp. Neither's opinion is more or less valid.

 

Context makes a difference. As to difficulty of the game the one in FPV will find Zeds more difficult to deal with than the one in TPV so if you are talking about something like Zed balance it is important as to if you are on a FPV server or not. Same with flying helicopters and such. 

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Everyone's made some pretty good points, but I still feel like people who call themselves hardcore think they're entitled to special treatment. I may play Vanilla, but I'd much rather play in 3rd person and fuck around with my buddies in Skype. Is there anything wrong with that? It may be causal, but it's how I enjoy the game and I don't want to be punished for that. Running around the map, finding loot, fighting bandits, and having a good laugh can and is casual. I don't play on 1st only, 0 vehicle, all viral hardcore rape PvP fest because I enjoy positive interactions and social ones too. I shouldn't be punished for playing on settings above low, using 3rd, and not killing on sight. but some people want it like that and I don't agree with them.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Context makes a difference. As to difficulty of the game the one in FPV will find Zeds more difficult to deal with than the one in TPV so if you are talking about something like Zed balance it is important as to if you are on a FPV server or not. Same with flying helicopters and such. 

Context IS relevant.

And in this context, nothing you've said applies to the topic at hand.

 

I play chess blindfolded, upside-down and underwater. Thus, your opinion is invalid.

[mercules 1290]

Everyone's made some pretty good points, but I still feel like people who call themselves hardcore think they're entitled to special treatment. I may play Vanilla, but I'd much rather play in 3rd person and fuck around with my buddies in Skype. Is there anything wrong with that? It may be causal, but it's how I enjoy the game and I don't want to be punished for that. Running around the map, finding loot, fighting bandits, and having a good laugh can and is casual. I don't play on 1st only, 0 vehicle, all viral hardcore rape PvP fest because I enjoy positive interactions and social ones too. I shouldn't be punished for playing on settings above low, using 3rd, and not killing on sight. but some people want it like that and I don't agree with them.

 

Yes, but at the same time some people don't want the Stand Alone to become an experience like CoD where you go, "I'm out of ammo. I'll commit suicide so I can get a gun that has ammo because death doesn't matter." We also don't want people committing suicide because antibiotics are only in very limited locations, extremely rare, and you get infected every hour of play or so.

The main reason that some of us arguing for harder restrictions at least at first in DayZ SA is because it is ALWAYS easier to loosen up restrictions than to tighten them if you find something is not working. So let's start with some of the more difficult setting and then loosen them up if that seems too hard. 

 

 

Context IS relevant.

And in this context, nothing you've said applies to the topic at hand.

 

I play chess blindfolded, upside-down and underwater. Thus, your opinion is invalid.

 

Why is it that the "harder" setting in the game remove TPV? Could it be that TPV makes the game easier? Making the game easier is more or less hardcore? While TPV is not what separates Hardcore from Softcore it is still a factor that leads to a more difficult game. Doing everything else the hard way in TPV is still hardcore and doing everything else the easy way in FPV is still Softcore, but TPV is an easier way to play a game and all other things equal makes the experience a bit less hardcore. 

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

How can you still be missing the point?

We're not talking about hard vs. easy or 3dp vs. FPV.

 

Neither preference gives more validity to any person's views on any subject.

[mercules 1290]

How can you still be missing the point?

We're not talking about hard vs. easy or 3dp vs. FPV.

 

Neither preference gives more validity to any person's views on any subject.

 

Yeah, actually it does, because, and here is the novel idea for you, ~opinions can be wrong~. 

Edited September 4, 2013 by Mercules

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I'm just saying, no matter what you or others label yourself, it doesn't entitle you to anything. I don't understand why people think that I'm a cod kiddie and want this game to be super easy because of third person. No, I just want third person to remain in the game. Anything else goes, m8.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Cap'n

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Hey, cap'n. You're not going to get you point across to everyone, I don't think.

 

"Hardcore", while perfectly legitimate for measuring gameplay preference, does NOT give anyone superior standing in the community with regards to "right" and "wrong".

The "holier than thou" attitude of some folks just overwrites their ability to see anything objectively.

 

I may not share all your preferences for playstyle, but I share your disgust at the apparent ignorance of some folks.

[p4triot 207]

Im all in for hardcore (which doesnt mean impossible, or incoherent), but I also want 3dp person to stay. I actually enjoy watching my own character. However, I would like some way to remove the advantatge this gives, like if you're playing in 3dp, you can't see any interactive element (zombies, players and so on) that you couldn't see in 1st either.

[mercules 1290]

I'm just saying, no matter what you or others label yourself, it doesn't entitle you to anything. I don't understand why people think that I'm a cod kiddie and want this game to be super easy because of third person. No, I just want third person to remain in the game. Anything else goes, m8.

 

I'm not labeling myself or expecting extra entitlement. When I state something I give reasons for it. What I don't do is state that just because someone prefers something that preference is fine contrary to evidence. As I stated earlier, Hardcore/Casual is probably a scale with a lot of factors moving you up or down it. Do we want to quantify all the factors so we can put people precisely on the scale? I don't think so because I don't think it matters where you fall on it. However it would be silly to proclaim that two people with all other factors of the game being the same are playing with the same difficulty level if one game had nametags on and the other does not. TPV is similar.

 

This isn't strictly a TPV thread, it is about "Hardcore" the phrase and using it. Is playing on a No-Nametag server more "Hardcore" than playing on a Nametag enabled server all other consideration equal? Yeah, it is. You can't tell there is someone lurking if they disguise themselves well and use cover. Does that make a player on such a server a "Hardcore" player? No, but it does mean they are a bit more Hardcore than someone on a Nametag enabled server. It also gives them insight that someone who doesn't play on that sort of server might not have. For example, Thermal sites on a Nametag server might not be a big deal because they only reveal a bit more information and the limit your field of view. If you sweep your aimpoint around you can trigger the nametag for someone hidden in a bush that the Thermal scope would also notice. On a non-nametag server though, that thermal scope might take on a whole extra level of power because there really is no way someone without one can otherwise detect the careful lurker. So the balance of that scope varies depending on how the game is setup. Thus an opinion that Thermal Scopes are fine and dandy and give no real great advantage can be formed by someone who is on a Nametag server and be completely wrong when discussing if they are powerful over all.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Mercules

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Again with the missing the point?

You'd think, with taking the time to write all that up, you'd have had time to READ THE OP.

 

It's not about defining what constitutes "hardcore".

It's not about your position on a "scale of hardcore".

It's not about correct usage of the word "hardcore".

Infact, besides terminology, it's got fuck all to do with "hardcore".

 

It's about ANYONE thinking that they have more right than anyone else to dictate overall gameplay to others.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Hardore = everything turned up to maximum difficulty.

 

How does this equate to feeling superior, ignorant or wanting everyone to play that way? You guys are clutching at straws.

 

Let's face it this thread stems from the 1st vs 3rd debate and the fact some of us think that some 3rd person exploits need to be rectified (something even Rocket concedes). 

 

Dictating how everyone should play how they want is the same as me saying i want everyone to play 1st person.  There shouldnt be a choice in the matter - we play the game Rocket produces not via some watered down community referendum

Edited September 4, 2013 by DemonGroover

[mercules 1290]

 

It's about ANYONE thinking that they have more right than anyone else to dictate overall gameplay to others.

 

Some people should. Why? Because the masses are stupid and lazy. I'm not being elitist here. I am very stupid and lazy about a good many things. I understand the concept of an internal combustion engine but I'll be damned if I care to learn enough to repair my car. I don't know what is best for my car and so take the advise of those with the experience in fixing my car. You wouldn't want me pushing legislation through congress that states that all cars must switch over to diesel fuel without understanding the difference in how that compared to gasoline affects the engine. However if an expert found a great source for Bio-diesel maybe it would be best for everyone if he did help push such legislation through even though I personally prefer gasoline(or in my case a Hybrid) cars.

People who can't grasp concepts in game shouldn't dictate a watering down of gameplay to accommodate for them. It's a game. There are dozens and dozens of games that are not as "hardcore" as DayZ but similar in style that you could let us have DayZ as dictated by our choices instead of the masses.   

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@DG

Clutching at straws? Hardly.

 

Call it, "hardcore", "elite" whatever. It's constantly referenced as some "I know better than you" group, to which anyone exterior is inferior.

You've got yourself a nice blue nametag, you should be aware of these things.

Not kidding.

 

I see forumers talking like that and I'm ashamed to be associated with them in the slightest.

 

@Mercules

Unless your name is Dean - "Rocket" - "2 Guns" - "The feckin' BOSS"- Hall, you have no more of a say than any other player.

There are no experts here. Just opinionated end-users. No different than anyone else who wishes to share their views.

[DemonGroover 8836]

@DG

Clutching at straws? Hardly.

 

Call it, "hardcore", "elite" whatever. It's constantly referenced as some "I know better than you" group, to which anyone exterior is inferior.

You've got yourself a nice blue nametag, you should be aware of these things.

Not kidding.

 

I see forumers talking like that and I'm ashamed to be associated with them in the slightest.

 

This forum is very relaxed and we allow a multitude of opinions, whether hardcore or softcore.

 

If i say i think 3rd person should be disabled because of the exploitative nature of its perspective, does this make me elitist, ignorant to other opinions or superior to you?  Cant i give my opinion without someone telling me to shut up because i'm not a dev.

 

Don't we all want a better game here?  Can't we discuss and give opinion without one side getting all defensive , spitting the dummy, and claiming they are being victimised and made to feel inferior?

 

Your opinion counts as much as the next guy. You can't voice your opinion on one hand and then tell Mercules his opinion is of little consequence on the other.

 

Because that just smacks of hypocrisy.

[wild_man 4442]

3rd person debate still continue :D

 

3rd person guys don't like to look reality in the eye, is too much pain accept 3rd person is nnot hardcore mode, is make some feel like 'what, they say I am pussy guy player?' :o

 

nobody say that ;)

 

so they do what all human do when he see truth dont agree his version but he is too much afraid to see different view :o

 

they make attack on 1st person guys say we are elite badass better than other guys B)  but nobody say that >:(

 

we like more challenge so is more reward from win, more intense game experience you like more comedy style, dance around tree see whole world but use invisible power

 

is 2 different way for play, 2 way dont mix for evidence read all thread and poll for this :P

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Talk of getting defensive, eh?

You're either reading what you want to read or referencing something else entirely.

 

I've spent my time in this discussion trying to bring it on-topic, in case you hadn't noticed.

If you're truly not aware of the group of members with this attitude, it's probably worth looking into at least, before you start trying to ridicule me, or anyone else.

 

If you're going to accuse me of being a hypocrite, do you mind pointing out where? Because all I've done is point out a certain feature of this discussion (and others) which shouldn't be there, while mercules continutes to discuss 1st vs 3rd

We are literally saying the very same thing, DG. No playstyle makes anyone superior.

 

Even in this very topic, I've stated my preference for FPV.

I've also stated multiple times, it doesn't matter what you prefer.

What DOES matter is talking down to people who don't share the views of the "hardcore" as if they don't know any better.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Everyone's made some pretty good points, but I still feel like people who call themselves hardcore think they're entitled to special treatment. I may play Vanilla, but I'd much rather play in 3rd person and fuck around with my buddies in Skype. Is there anything wrong with that? It may be causal, but it's how I enjoy the game and I don't want to be punished for that. Running around the map, finding loot, fighting bandits, and having a good laugh can and is casual. I don't play on 1st only, 0 vehicle, all viral hardcore rape PvP fest because I enjoy positive interactions and social ones too. I shouldn't be punished for playing on settings above low, using 3rd, and not killing on sight. but some people want it like that and I don't agree with them.

 

Are you implying that playing more difficult server settings will mean no positive social interactions? Is this your experience, or assumption? I've had plenty of positive social interactions on the more hardcore servers.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Talk of getting defensive, eh?

You're either reading what you want to read or referencing something else entirely.

 

I've spent my time in this discussion trying to bring it on-topic, in case you hadn't noticed.

If you're truly not aware of the group of members with this attitude, it's probably worth looking into at least, before you start trying to ridicule me, or anyone else.

 

If you're going to accuse me of being a hypocrite, do you mind pointing out where? Because all I've done is point out a certain feature of this discussion (and others) which shouldn't be there, while mercules continutes to discuss 1st vs 3rd

We are literally saying the very same thing, DG. No playstyle makes anyone superior.

 

Even in this very topic, I've stated my preference for FPV.

I've also stated multiple times, it doesn't matter what you prefer.

What DOES matter is talking down to people who don't share the views of the "hardcore" as if they don't know any better.

 

I agree with you somewhat in that some members do appear to have a sense of being "superior" because of the way they play.  But in saying that i honestly just laugh when i see those comments - are they actually serious or deluded?

 

This thread was born out of frustration at the 1st vs 3rd thread so i think it is relevant that that thread be acknowledged.  This is the crux of the whole "hardcore" argument.  I would say though that there are just as many 3rd person advocates who talk down to people as the "hardcore" fanatics. Comments like "Go play 1st servers then", or "99% of us cant be wrong"  are just as arrogant as saying "3rd is for pussies".

 

We are never going to get 100% agreement on any issue and forums are notorious for trolls, the community "elite" and pains in the ass. Let them have their say and if it turns out to be nonsense or arrogance they will soon get shot down.

 

Calling you a hypocrite was harsh i admit, but just because our say doesn't change anything shouldn't mean Mercules cant voice his.

 

And btw i actually like 3rd person when running through the countryside - so i am most definitely not hardcore.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

We are never going to get 100% agreement on any issue and forums are notorious for trolls, the community "elite" and pains in the ass. Let them have their say and if it turns out to be nonsense or arrogance they will soon get shot down.

You're not wrong.

I just dread what others must think when they read some of this.

 

Glad not everything has to descend into argument.

 

EDIT:

Chalk it up to frustration on my part too, I reckon.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Chabowski

[DemonGroover 8836]

You're not wrong.

I just dread what others must think when they read some of this.

 

Glad not everything has to descend into argument.

 

There's nothing wrong with a healthy argument but i agree that once it descends into abuse or i'm right/you're wrong tit for tat then it can become quite pathetic.

 

We have had some pretty heated discussions on this forum lately and it does make it a lot more interesting.  It definitely shows there is a schism in DayZ players in general, whether it be about KoS, 1st vs 3rd, Custom Load out servers, 10000 vehicle servers etc etc.

 

However you are right, there isn't really a call for anyone to force feed their views on anyone and say what someone should or shouldn't be doing in regards to a game we all clearly like.

Edited September 5, 2013 by DemonGroover

[OrLoK 16185]

Yeah, but i play dressed in a ghillie suit**, therefore i'm right and you two guys are wrong and not leet.

 

 

I win the thread!

 

L

 

 

 

 

**bunny outfit.

[Hetstaine 10852]

Whatever Orlok..i'm so hardcore i read the thread twice..in fpv. 

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Are you implying that playing more difficult server settings will mean no positive social interactions? Is this your experience, or assumption? I've had plenty of positive social interactions on the more hardcore servers.

I just think that servers that force you to PvP(not all veteran servers) aren't reinforcing positive social interactions. I don't want to spawn with a DMR and go around shooting people, I'd much rather work my way up the ladder along others. And when you spawn with gear, there is less of an incentive to be friendly because survival doesn't mean much when you spawn back with good gear. I might not have made my meaning clear, and not all veteran serves must force you to play like that. Also, I feel like some people are in it for PvP and PvP only. that doesn't really leave much else to be achieved, eh?

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Yeah, but i play dressed in a ghillie suit**, therefore i'm right and you two guys are wrong and not leet.

 

 

I win the thread!

 

L

 

 

 

 

**bunny outfit.

have you crawled with a broken leg 7km with an infection all the way to balota med tents, killing several bandits with a Makarov that has only one magazine? in 2nd person? you ain't that hardcore bru