First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[AP_Norris 1017]

I hope the alpha starts with a few first person servers already set up on the hive so I can start up legit and look at myself though the inventory.

[mercules 1290]

You need new friends. Or at least more people to play with in 1st person view.

 

 

Yeah, because some of us are going to go out and magically find people we have known and hung out with for over 10 years to replace our friends. Sorry, not 16-18 where I'll change peer groups about as often as I buy new socks. Don't be daft, Some of us play online games to hang out with our friends who have moved a good 13 hour drive away from us and stay a part of their lives. Like I am going to tell them, "Oh, sorry... I prefer 1st person view so I'm going to go play with this guy I chatted with once online in Cherno instead of hearing about how your dental practice is going... because a game is more important than you."

Look, my friends play Borderlands and such in FPV and never even consider wishing it had TPV. The ONLY reason they use TPV in DayZ is because it is there and it makes the game easier. My friend has admitted he likes it because he can see zombies and avoid them and drive vehicles better in TPV At least he will actually admit he likes the ease of it... I just wish a few of the TPV proponents would come out and say, "I like to see zombies around corners, okay?" The would garner some respect. Instead we get, "It's not an exploit." and "It doesn't make the game any easier."

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I dont see this as a big problem. I do this all the time. I play hero at one private hive and when i feel like PvP with my friends i jump in another. You die so often in DayZ that is not a big deal playing in two different hives.

Maybe I don't die as much as you =)

 

And no, I'm not going to change my friends thanks.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Fraggle

[Element47 2480]

[...]

 I just wish a few of the TPV proponents would come out and say, "I like to see zombies around corners, okay?"

[...]

 

Here I am. I am perfectly fine with running around the woods in 1st, but there are many instances where 3rd makes the game so much easier - and thus more enjoyable. my favourite 3rd person applications:

 

landing a chopper between rocks and trees is horrible in 1st, i dont have TrackIR or Oculus, and changing the (frustratingly limited in comparison to real life) view with the numpad while juggling the chopper is a challenge i gladly omit thanks to 3rd

 

hiding in foliage and checking if your ass is sticking out of the bush? much easier in 3rd

 

Will i abandon the game if 3rd gets the axe? FFS of course not. But i might miss it.

[MOS182 63]

I think a lot of us play along with 3rd person because the vast majority of populated servers are 3rd enabled.  If you don't use it you put yourself at a massive disadvantage.

 

If 3rd person was totally disabled for the SA would players be turned away or would they persevere and play on?

 

Is 3rd person only good for being able to check out what clothes you are wearing and how bad ass your weapon looks?

 

How about as an alternative for only using 3rd person to check out what clothes you're wearing and how bad ass your weapon looks, you could press Esc and it'd show you your character and would allow you to hold in left click to drag him around 360* so you can see all around him?

[aeinola 25]

Yeah, because some of us are going to go out and magically find people we have known and hung out with for over 10 years to replace our friends. Sorry, not 16-18 where I'll change peer groups about as often as I buy new socks. Don't be daft, Some of us play online games to hang out with our friends who have moved a good 13 hour drive away from us and stay a part of their lives. Like I am going to tell them, "Oh, sorry... I prefer 1st person view so I'm going to go play with this guy I chatted with once online in Cherno instead of hearing about how your dental practice is going... because a game is more important than you."

 

And no, I'm not going to change my friends thanks.

When did i say you must replace or change your friends? Come one, i said you could do little both like i do. I play hero time to time (sometimes alone) and then i play PvP with my friends. Why you need to twist my words so much?

 

Look, my friends play Borderlands and such in FPV and never even consider wishing it had TPV. The ONLY reason they use TPV in DayZ is because it is there and it makes the game easier. My friend has admitted he likes it because he can see zombies and avoid them and drive vehicles better in TPV At least he will actually admit he likes the ease of it... I just wish a few of the TPV proponents would come out and say, "I like to see zombies around corners, okay?" The would garner some respect. Instead we get, "It's not an exploit." and "It doesn't make the game any easier."

This might be the case with your friends but you cant think thats the case for ALL the players and use it to get 3rd person disabled from all Standalone servers!

I know this post is for 3rd person lovers in generally but i say this one more time: I would prefer 1st person view if it was not so unrealistically limited and makes the game frustrating. I enjoy much more the game when i can switch between the views and live with the exploits. And yes it does make the game easier in some situations. Thats a no-brainer.

[aeinola 25]

How about as an alternative for only using 3rd person to check out what clothes you're wearing and how bad ass your weapon looks, you could press Esc and it'd show you your character and would allow you to hold in left click to drag him around 360* so you can see all around him?

This is a good idea for 1st person only servers.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

The way people argument here really makes me feel superior. Not to people in general but in relation to those fellas.

What am I supposed of thinking of folks clinging to something in many other games is not even remotely considered like girls to their teddy bears? It's pathetic.

Picking on smaller guys always is fun and boosting one's self esteem.

Just thought this quote should be highlighted again. You win the keyboard warrior award this week, all hail the king of forum arguments.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

When did i say you must replace or change your friends? Come one, i said you could do little both like i do. I play hero time to time (sometimes alone) and then i play PvP with my friends. Why you need to twist my words so much?

You said:  "Find new friends".

 

I said:  "I'm not going to change my friends."

 

No wordplay needed.

 

Anyhoo, the point I was making that I usually invest a bit of time in my character/player and the same goes for the server I choose to play on.  I like to stick to one server because that's how I manage to figure out player patterns/behaviours etc on the server, thus why maybe I don't die as much as you.

 

Ideally I'd like that server to be a place where both me and my friends can enjoy the game equally. 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well at least I know there will be couple Finnish FPV servers in standalone so I'm not that much worried about low populance. In mod there's only one and it's mostly empty because everyone has moved in play some other mods, missions or games to wait the standalone.

[dgeesio 1034]

Well at least I know there will be couple Finnish FPV servers in standalone so I'm not that much worried about low populance. In mod there's only one and it's mostly empty because everyone has moved in play some other mods, missions or games to wait the standalone.

more than likely they playing 3rd person with the other 99.9 percent of dayz players.

 

im not one for blanket statments but 3rd person i by enlarge dayz in a nut shell.

[mercules 1290]

Here I am. I am perfectly fine with running around the woods in 1st, but there are many instances where 3rd makes the game so much easier - and thus more enjoyable. my favourite 3rd person applications:

 

landing a chopper between rocks and trees is horrible in 1st, i dont have TrackIR or Oculus, and changing the (frustratingly limited in comparison to real life) view with the numpad while juggling the chopper is a challenge i gladly omit thanks to 3rd

 

hiding in foliage and checking if your ass is sticking out of the bush? much easier in 3rd

 

Will i abandon the game if 3rd gets the axe? FFS of course not. But i might miss it.

 

I have to admit that landing a chopper in FPV can be DAMN HARD. I play in Breaking Point when Vanilla gets too frustrating where you can actually lift some vehicles with certain helicopters and fly them to other locations. TPV makes that trivial while FPV means I basically need a spotter or some good guessing to know when I am nice and close and can lift or drop a vehicle. 

Lately I've taken to forcing myself to fly in FPV and it is a challenge. Landing is probably the worst but it can be done. I've also taken to avoiding Auto-Hover if I can. You have more control without it but one mistake can throw you way off. 

I will definitely miss having my TPV while flying a helicopter but I think the challenge of learning flying without it will be kinda fun and envigorating. I am slowly easing my way to switching my sever over to FPV only and trying to get my friends to follow suit. 

Where it WILL be a pain is HMMWVs. Most of them I have been inside in game have windows far to small and low to be of use looking out the side view. As a driver it is nice to swing your view to the side when turning to look into the turn and you just can't in those things. 

 

[tommes 331]

Here I am. I am perfectly fine with running around the woods in 1st, but there are many instances where 3rd makes the game so much easier - and thus more enjoyable. my favourite 3rd person applications:

 

landing a chopper between rocks and trees is horrible in 1st, i dont have TrackIR or Oculus, and changing the (frustratingly limited in comparison to real life) view with the numpad while juggling the chopper is a challenge i gladly omit thanks to 3rd

 

hiding in foliage and checking if your ass is sticking out of the bush? much easier in 3rd

 

Will i abandon the game if 3rd gets the axe? FFS of course not. But i might miss it.

 

Maybe try FaceTrackNoIR. You just need a compatible webcam and the (free) software. My buddy says it works fine.

 

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

[tommes 331]

Where it WILL be a pain is HMMWVs. Most of them I have been inside in game have windows far to small and low to be of use looking out the side view. As a driver it is nice to swing your view to the side when turning to look into the turn and you just can't in those things. 

 

What would be really cool if you could change the position of the head inside vehicles. In reality you do that instinctively to better see around. Similar to that peeking over stuff while prone just like leaning would be great as well.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Anyhoo, the point I was making that I usually invest a bit of time in my character/player and the same goes for the server I choose to play on.  I like to stick to one server because that's how I manage to figure out player patterns/behaviours etc on the server, thus why maybe I don't die as much as you.

 

Ideally I'd like that server to be a place where both me and my friends can enjoy the game equally. 

Yeah. Whenever I play in a group there is always someone moaning about 1st person being too hard and refuses to play so we're forced into 3rd person servers because "we can use 1st person there too". Same goes for a friend who I play with most of the time. He doesn't like 1st person because he "can't see anything" but he doesn't realize in reality he sees more than he should in 3rd person, rather than the other way around. Even after explaining it to him, he doesn't care others can exploit the view as long as he can because he finds it easier to play. Basically I end up playing in FPV servers only when I'm alone. My playstyle isn't really running into Cherno or Elektro for a quick deathmatch so having to use a different character than the one when I play with others is kinda annoying.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

more than likely they playing 3rd person with the other 99.9 percent of dayz players.

 

im not one for blanket statments but 3rd person i by enlarge dayz in a nut shell.

No matter how many times you repeat it, it's still such a poor argument. 99% of dayz players don't play vanilla DayZ, what does that tell us?

[Wayze 549]

Here I am. I am perfectly fine with running around the woods in 1st, but there are many instances where 3rd makes the game so much easier - and thus more enjoyable. my favourite 3rd person applications:

 

landing a chopper between rocks and trees is horrible in 1st, i dont have TrackIR or Oculus, and changing the (frustratingly limited in comparison to real life) view with the numpad while juggling the chopper is a challenge i gladly omit thanks to 3rd

 

hiding in foliage and checking if your ass is sticking out of the bush? much easier in 3rd

 

Will i abandon the game if 3rd gets the axe? FFS of course not. But i might miss it.

I don't think DayZ is about being easy. What you find good in third person is in my opinion a real fun-killer. I like games like Dark Souls, where you have to actually do something to accomplish things. If everything is easy as f*ck the feeling of reaching a goal or accomplishing something is way less than when a game is hard.

 

Landing a chopper between rocks is not horrible, it is just harder in first person than in third person. You know, for landing a chopper between rocks you would need months, maybe even years, of training in real life. You complain about that it is not working immediatly, but why should it? You should improve your skills in that matter and I think that is a motivator for the game. You get better and better, but if you reached the "pro-level" in 20 minutes there is simply nothing to be proud of. But if you have to try and try and train your own skills, you get better and in the end there is a way more deeper feeling of joy. You did something that actually requires skill.

 

Hiding in foliage is maybe easier in 3rd person, but not impossible in first person. I think video games are not exactly made for that kind of stuff, because it is hard to implement it right. But I think also in real life it is not easy to actually hide yourself as good as in DayZ. Even with a ghillie suit, as an amateur you would have big problems with creating the illusion of camoflage.

 

And do not tell me that DayZ is not about realism, because that is one of the main features of the game. (yes I know zombies are not realistic)

Without the realism many aspects of the game, like the immersion, would get irrelevant. In DayZ mod they already gone, but I hope they will be back in the SA.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

 99% of dayz players don't play vanilla DayZ, what does that tell us?

ummm we all did at one point.. but over time vanilla and chernarus have become stale as hell..

 

its because of mods and new maps that Dayz is even still remotely popular.. otherwise most people would have moved onto something else.

[mercules 1290]

What would be really cool if you could change the position of the head inside vehicles. In reality you do that instinctively to better see around. Similar to that peeking over stuff while prone just like leaning would be great as well.

 

It would. I am seriously considering saving up for a TrackIr. I could wait for the Occulus Rift... but that looks to be a few years out before they have a consumer level product and not a developer kit. 2 more screens, I more video card(then I can roast marshmellows over my case) and a TrackIr and we are talking a really nice setup for FPV immersion. 

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It would. I am seriously considering saving up for a TrackIr. I could wait for the Occulus Rift... but that looks to be a few years out before they have a consumer level product and not a developer kit. 2 more screens, I more video card(then I can roast marshmellows over my case) and a TrackIr and we are talking a really nice setup for FPV immersion. 

Before you splash out on a TrackIR take a look at "Freetrack".  It's a bit of a faff to get set up but works amazingly and it saved me a lot of money.

[fluxley 2228]

Before you splash out on a TrackIR take a look at "Freetrack".  It's a bit of a faff to get set up but works amazingly and it saved me a lot of money.

 

I know a website about that ;)  http://fragtrack.weebly.com/

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

ummm we all did at one point.. but over time vanilla and chernarus have become stale as hell..

 

its because of mods and new maps that Dayz is even still remotely popular.. otherwise most people would have moved onto something else.

DayZ standalone is going to be a massive flop then. Being basically a "hardcore" version of the vanilla mod, placed on a modified Chernarus with no vehicles at launch and no support for modding.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

DayZ standalone is going to be a massive flop then. Being basically a "hardcore" version of the vanilla mod, placed on a modified Chernarus with no vehicles at launch and no support for modding.

Have they confirmed the no vehicles at launch? I know there was talk of putting in the current vehicles and then the team reworking vehicles from the ground up as development continues. People like an objective and even back in the day when vehicles were insanely rare it provided an objective (even though it almost always ended quickly with some group destroying your vehicle as you drove or someone stealing the vehicle as you were offline).

The problem with "vanilla" DayZ is it did get stale and boring. With the resources that comes with actually selling the game the developers can devote time and staff toward updates and new features. Vanilla DayZ added next to nothing in a six month span and eventually people got bored with the same experience. I loved, I mean absolutely loved, DayZ at the beginning, but what was once fun became tedious after doing it X amount of times. I held out longer than most, but now when I spend time playing DayZ the majority of my time is spent in the new mods, maps, and on occasion the easy mode PvP servers where you can jump on for thirty minutes and get into 3 to 4 firefights. I do not want or expect the Standalone to match the variety of the mod, but if they put out a stagnant product that was not offering new experiences it would be a flop. From what I have read I am not worried about that outcome, the developers know that putting out a vanilla DayZ standalone would be a waste of time and effort.

[mercules 1290]

But I think also in real life it is not easy to actually hide yourself as good as in DayZ. Even with a ghillie suit, as an amateur you would have big problems with creating the illusion of camoflage.

 

Actually, it is not as hard as you think. I play paintball with a group of people a few years back a couple of my paintball friends used to host winter matches of woods ball. Now in Minnesota winter paintball gets interesting, but that is an aside. They did it because there were not normal matches going on. We would get a big group together and hit the woods behind their house. 

Having been in their woods in the winter before I knew what the terrain was like and what was out there. There was a good deal of Jack Pine and White Pine as well as a lot of bushes that look like Red Oak and similar things. So I made my own camo. 

First thing was a base for which I found an old black cloth duster although a trench coat would work as well. I got it large so I could wear heavy clothing under it since it would be winter but then I could also wear it without in the fall and spring. I then put bleach in a spray bottle and began to stripe the coat by spraying it with bleach in wavy stripes. When I was done it was still mostly black but it was approaching the, "White with black stripes or black with white stripes?" point. On top of that base I added a bunch of "Pine Garland" you can buy at any craft store any time after august. People use it for Christmas decorations.

 

I added that to my goggles as well as some strips torn from socks then dyed. 

Over that I put some fall leaves like this:

Which are nice because they have wire branches so you can actually wire them in and have them stick out as I did on my goggles and one of my shoulders. What I ended up with broke up my form enough that while crouched in a bush I was able to sit there and watch another person who scanned the bush I was in twice right in the goggles. She jumped so much she fell over and swears she had no idea I was there until the paintball hit her and she was less than 10 feet away. She wasn't the only one. In fact her husband afterwards went, "You know, I was laughing at you when you put that on, but damn did it work out in the woods. How did you make it?"

 

[mercules 1290]

Have they confirmed the no vehicles at launch? I know there was talk of putting in the current vehicles and then the team reworking vehicles from the ground up as development continues. People like an objective and even back in the day when vehicles were insanely rare it provided an objective (even though it almost always ended quickly with some group destroying your vehicle as you drove or someone stealing the vehicle as you were offline).

The problem with "vanilla" DayZ is it did get stale and boring. With the resources that comes with actually selling the game the developers can devote time and staff toward updates and new features. Vanilla DayZ added next to nothing in a six month span and eventually people got bored with the same experience. I loved, I mean absolutely loved, DayZ at the beginning, but what was once fun became tedious after doing it X amount of times. I held out longer than most, but now when I spend time playing DayZ the majority of my time is spent in the new mods, maps, and on occasion the easy mode PvP servers where you can jump on for thirty minutes and get into 3 to 4 firefights. I do not want or expect the Standalone to match the variety of the mod, but if they put out a stagnant product that was not offering new experiences it would be a flop. From what I have read I am not worried about that outcome, the developers know that putting out a vanilla DayZ standalone would be a waste of time and effort.

 

No vehicles. They are completely redoing them, not just bringing them over from ARMA. Just like the guns they will have some customizability. They want to make it so you can find some scrap metal and craft on some reinforcement to knock zombies aside or armor the windows.

Even so it should have plenty to do. Finding a nice scope or stock for your gun might be a goal in and of itself. With items degrading with use you might end up on quests to find new shoes before yours get too worn. :)