First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[tommes 331]

Not many seem to want to go the extra mile here. 

[Wayze 549]

With what ammo are they going to do that?

 

Even Rocket said that it will be more common to have 3 bullets than 3 mags...

 

"killing other players" is not the goal of Standalone. Better if people realize that before the game comes out, or we will get a huge wave of disappointment when they realize that finding ammo is almost impossible and Killing Others is no longer the main thing to do. 

Think it through. If I find 3 bullets, what am I going to do with it? Just run around like a maniac and maybe use them if I am in danger? No, I go to a position where I can kill someone without destroying his gear. I go on top of a building and camp for someone. Then, if I spot anyone I will wait until he stands still and headshot, his gear stays intact and I am a happy man. I got still some bullets left and maybe the other guys has some decent loot.

 

Anyway, there will be some common camping spots in the standalone, that is for sure. These camping spots will probably not exist on first person servers.

[tommes 331]

Humanity perfectly managed to kill each other even at times with no firearms in existence. Why should the lack of bullets stop em now?

[mercules 1290]

Lots of people want it in the game and the option for both makes it better for bigger crowd, and that means SA gets more players, more money and keeps the DayZ train going and makes the games future more secure. Its the same thing with TV-Shows. Even if a show is insanely good for hardcore fans it might get low attention and eventyally get cancelled.

 

Maybe, but I watch all of Firefly and Serenity at least once a year. It is very unlikely I would have bought the disks and recommended them to friends if it had gone the, "Well we have to have X so we can get more people watching. In other words I am really glad I got all the quality Firefly had to offer instead of a water-downed to appeal to the masses version that might have had more episodes. 

 

I'm fairly certain that playing Pac-Man in FPV would also result in an apparent net-disadvantage.

 

http://www.kongregate.com/games/briderider/fps-man

 

Yeah, it takes Pac Man from a boring sad little game to a challenge where you can't plan out a route, see the ghost that will be closing on you and re-route easier, or see if one of the 2 ghosts behind you split off to cut off any turns you might make. In other words it becomes challenging and fun and almost spooky having to try and spot ghosts while gathering up the dots.

--------------------------

Look guys, SA is going to alter both FPV and TPV. It looks like it is going to make FPV more appealing to play in and remove the TPV exploits or at least the most egregious ones. I'm good with that. 

[aeinola 25]

Maybe, but I watch all of Firefly and Serenity at least once a year. It is very unlikely I would have bought the disks and recommended them to friends if it had gone the, "Well we have to have X so we can get more people watching. In other words I am really glad I got all the quality Firefly had to offer instead of a water-downed to appeal to the masses version that might have had more episodes. 

Agree. Better to have one season for great quality than 10 seasons for crap. But you could have 10 seasons for really good quality if you gear it a little bit towards masses. Thats what im talking about with DayZ. Its not just for hardcore fans or just for masses, you can make successful compromise. And i strongly feel 3rd person view option is one of them. I really hope they focus on getting the 1st person view better and less limited and from that path 1st person only servers would get more players.

[Wayze 549]

Agree. Better to have one season for great quality than 10 seasons for crap. But you could have 10 seasons for really good quality if you gear it a little bit towards masses. Thats what im talking about with DayZ. Its not just for hardcore fans or just for masses, you can make successful compromise. And i strongly feel 3rd person view option is one of them. I really hope they focus on getting the 1st person view better and less limited and from that path 1st person only servers would get more players.

I'll correct you.

DayZ Mod is not just for hardcore fans or just for masses. DayZ SA, well that is a completly other thing. We will see how many players will play DayZ SA after 2 months.

[IncognitoNico 71]

Man, this thread could be reduced to 2 pages because all the arguments for both sides have been repeated a million and five times, I think it's time to stop arguing about it, rocket already said that 3rd will be changed to a more over the shoulder style camera so calm all of your tits down

[mercules 1290]

Man, this thread could be reduced to 2 pages because all the arguments for both sides have been repeated a million and five times, I think it's time to stop arguing about it, rocket already said that 3rd will be changed to a more over the shoulder style camera so calm all of your tits down

 

Ah, but just because Rocket stated how things will be, that doesn't remove the discussion. I think people need to go back and read the OP and watch the video again. Aside from SmashT's additions the topic was really a debate about the merits of FPV versus TPV and about Dslyecxi's arguments for playing in FPV. While this was also a discussion about changing the norm for SA, which is not going to happen, it was ALWAYS a discussion of the benefits of playing in FPV.

[aeinola 25]

I'll correct you.

DayZ Mod is not just for hardcore fans or just for masses. DayZ SA, well that is a completly other thing. We will see how many players will play DayZ SA after 2 months.

And what exactly did you correct?

[mercules 1290]

Agree. Better to have one season for great quality than 10 seasons for crap. But you could have 10 seasons for really good quality if you gear it a little bit towards masses. Thats what im talking about with DayZ. Its not just for hardcore fans or just for masses, you can make successful compromise. And i strongly feel 3rd person view option is one of them. I really hope they focus on getting the 1st person view better and less limited and from that path 1st person only servers would get more players.

 

I disagree... I think what you call "really good quality" would have been crap by my standards. I'm not a hipster but I still often prefer things that the "masses" don't always get. Had they watered down Firefly to appeal to the masses it still wouldn't have gotten 10 years and it wouldn't be as good as it was. Watering down games is, in my opinion, the same sort of thing. Water it down for the masses and you have something that might as well be the other games BUILT for the masses but with slightly less appeal for either the masses or a core group of niche players. At that point it really has no place as it isn't watered down enough for the masses to love it and isn't niche fitting enough to build up a loyal following. 

[Ken Bean 175]

I'll correct you.

DayZ Mod is not just for hardcore fans or just for masses. DayZ SA, well that is a completly other thing. We will see how many players will play DayZ SA after 2 months.

 

Since they add a lot of gameplay depth and take some shooter motivation out, I'm quite optimistic that it's going to be a very good survial game. Maybe we'll see how popular the survival-simulation genre really is. The mod DayZ is in my feel quite a bit misunderstood as being a shooter, by a lot of folks.

 

I'd like to see some skill/charakter system in regards of non-combat skills, like repairing, driving, gutting animals (maybe different efficiency or shorter times in performing certain actions). I'd also imagine that needing 6 classes instead of 8 while repairing a heli can be justified by having more practice  in technics or being more efficient in using rare ressources.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Ken Bean

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

http://www.kongregate.com/games/briderider/fps-man

 

Yeah, it takes Pac Man from a boring sad little game to a challenge where you can't plan out a route, see the ghost that will be closing on you and re-route easier, or see if one of the 2 ghosts behind you split off to cut off any turns you might make. In other words it becomes challenging and fun and almost spooky having to try and spot ghosts while gathering up the dots.

Yip. Found that right after I posted. I can't tell if you're making a new point or just quoting me to show that you found it too.

 

The ghosts in that version are dumbed down and slowed down precisely because it was intended for FPV gameplay. Which is what I was on about with the GTA thing.

Gameplay for any game is geared towards the way the creators intended it.

If the guy took away the radar it would be even harder / more frustrating. But whether that would make it more fun / better would, as in ArmA, be a matter of personal preference.

You'd still be performing the very same actions.

 

+ How about a little respect for quite possibly the most influential video game ever?  :P

[big_t 66]

Man, this thread could be reduced to 2 pages because all the arguments for both sides have been repeated a million and five times, I think it's time to stop arguing about it, rocket already said that 3rd will be changed to a more over the shoulder style camera so calm all of your tits down

 

 

If the New Camera angles stop people from exploiting visually then my tits will be at a calm and wavy wobble.

 

 The masses can watch the back of their precious doodle bro avatar all day long taking up valuable screen real-estate until they realize there is no exploitable benefit.

 

Curious to see how many on here cry for their 3rd person visual advantages under the guise of ........

[mercules 1290]

+ How about a little respect for quite possibly the most influential video game ever?  :P

 

It was one of them, but I wouldn't say THE most influential video game ever. Probably the most successful coin-op game ever though. 

[Wayze 549]

Yip. Found that right after I posted. I can't tell if you're making a new point or just quoting me to show that you found it too.

 

The ghosts in that version are dumbed down and slowed down precisely because it was intended for FPV gameplay. Which is what I was on about with the GTA thing.

Gameplay for any game is geared towards the way the creators intended it.

If the guy took away the radar it would be even harder / more frustrating. But whether that would make it more fun / better would, as in ArmA, be a matter of personal preference.

You'd still be performing the very same actions.

 

+ How about a little respect for quite possibly the most influential video game ever?  :P

Arma is a combat simulation. I think it was made for first person, but third person was added to make the game easier for the players. Higer accuracy, no recoil, exploiting. All these things are not really made for a combat simulation.

 

The problem is, I think many people just don't know that first person is better than third person. Hell, if I hadn't played DayZ for a year I would probably being here defend first person.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Palm to the Face, dude.

 

GTA has a huge number of enemy spawns, fast-paced urban driving and what can only be described as "eccentric" gameplay.

All of this is tuned to reach a specific difficulty with the 3rd person perspective in mind.

Not once have I said that FPV doesn't increase difficulty. But you're clearly seeking an argument, as per usual.

Surprise, surprise.

GTA is difficult in FPV because the creators of the game never intended for it to be played that way.

 

The point you're trying to make is irrelevant, since ArmA and DayZ have 3dp as standard and the Devs have chosen to make it a feature.

There are actually many activities in ArmA/DayZ which FPV makes easier. Such as shooting, looting and activating objects in the world (gates, ladders etc.)

**(note. Unless you play with crosshairs enabled)

If the creators of the game intended for it to be played solely from one perspective or the other, there simply wouldn't be a choice.

 

EDIT:

If you really are just looking for a fight, stick your head up your arse and fight for breath.

Otherwise, stop with the bollocks.

FPV only WILL be a server option. The question is, what's 3dp going to end up like?

If you never play 3dp, it's none of your concern.

 

Ignoring the whole GTA stuff. Do you agree that third person in any game is easier to keep aware of your situation than first person?

 

That was my whole point. You just couldn't get past the fact that GTA was designed with third person only. If you can't look past things and see the bigger picture, I'm done talking to you.

 

Despite my passionate debating on these forums I hold no grudges against you. I simply like to debate issues. I'm not looking for a fight. I can't help but reply to your posts because from what I read, you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

When I say that video shows how first person is more difficult and you say GTA was made to be third. That implies that you think the only reason it's more difficult is because it wasn't designed to be played in first person. Meaning you disagree with my point that first person is more difficult.

 

You have some fucked up ways of conversing. I'll try to keep my thoughts to myself when I see you post from now on. No point in wasting our time.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@ Wayze.

There's absolutely no difference in accuracy or recoil in 3dp compared to FPV.

In actual fact, shooting in FPV is easier because of the view.

 

If you're going to start lumping crosshairs, nametags, peripheral dots and map-markers all in to try and make your point seem "right" it just makes you look desperate and actually drags the whole pro-FPV argument down.

 

Don't quote me if you're talking about something else entirely. And I already made it very clear I'm not interested in this pointless repetiton.

 

EDIT:

@bad_mojo.

Increased awareness is the entire point of 3dp. That's never been in question.

I'll look back and see where we went wrong, but as far as I can tell you were just determined to see the line "FPV is harder".

EDIT2:

Yup. Honestly, all I can see is you baiting for that one particular phrase.

The funny thing is, I didn't disagree with you in the slightest. I just carried on the discussion.

Pointless thing to cut all ties over, but suit yourself.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Chabowski

[IncognitoNico 71]

Ah, but just because Rocket stated how things will be, that doesn't remove the discussion. I think people need to go back and read the OP and watch the video again. Aside from SmashT's additions the topic was really a debate about the merits of FPV versus TPV and about Dslyecxi's arguments for playing in FPV. While this was also a discussion about changing the norm for SA, which is not going to happen, it was ALWAYS a discussion of the benefits of playing in FPV.

You got a point, but the problem is that people are not really debating of giving any actually valid arguments, because they've been saying the same thing since page 1

[tommes 331]

There have been a lot of valid arguments. The problem is rather that those are completely disregarded.

That's why I got a little stroppy here. The opposition is either to dumb or simply unwilling to agree to anything. How are you supposed to have a civilized discussion like that? You don't.

 

The ones following this thread...well, there's no one else left anyway... might have noticed a thin slice of despise in my words against the TPV lovers here from time to time. That's not without a reason. I'll illustrate once more with a little story.

 

I don't have much time to play but managed to do so for a couple of hours last sunday evening and yesterday as well. Tried DayZero Podagorsk for the first time on a 3DP off server. Played alone there for a while when an old gaming buddy, whith whom I used to play DayZ back in summer 2012 came online. At some point he wandered off to WarZ, found there some buddies and they formed a clan there, mostly PvP oriented. I had no interest in any of that. In fact I'd rather remove my eyelashes with pincers than going so low as to waste time AND money on such a pile of dung. At some point they jumped off WarZ again back to DayZ. Well, he skyped me to join their Teamspeak and play with them which I did. Well, guess what! Those guys played on one of those 500+ vehicles + custom bases with loads of weapons and donator packs servers, which almost every one of them had, mostly for PvP...well that means they go some place with their AS50s and shoot anything in sight and talk a lot of crap while doing that. They enjoyed themselves. I got bored quickly despite a few action packed moments with like others trying to crash helis in our spot and stuff like that. Logged off for the night. Next evening I went lonewolfing on Podagorsk again. Had some fun. Had to log off because server restart. The buddy came on and I joined his group again. Same game as last night.

 

Conclusion:

 

I despised WarZ. Therefore I despise people playing it because they obviously don't have something like standards and decency of gaming. Meeting some of those validated my prejudice...now it's not a prejudice anymore. People gaming shit must be a little shitty too. You can't play with shit without getting a little dirty. And if you're dirty, you probably played with shit too. 

That's why I tend to despise people a little who enjoy playing shitty video games.

 

Regarding TPV I have to say that I didn't miss it much on Podagorsk. On the DayShit Server TPV was enabled of course. I did some whoring too, but I don't feel comfortable in TPV in general anymore and only felt to switch to it for looking at the new skin of my character and some whoring while beeing shot at or driving a vehicle. Looting even goes better in FPV because you can aim at the loot piles decently. Always had my problems with that in TPV. You can play DayZ almost perfectly while in FPV and especially driving vehicles and flying choppers is much more fun that way despite beeing somewhat more challenging.

 

Play like a man! Play in FPV! You might finally have a reason to feel good about yourself.

Edited September 10, 2013 by tommes

[Jex 1104]

Well they are trying to, all the advocates for the outright removal of TPV so far seem to be 'I only want to play in FPV' players. They want to dictate that those who use or prefer TPV play always only in FPV. That, I think, is the crux of the argument raging around the original discussion, which has died again now. I wait for it to reappear.

 

I thought it was more that TPV couldn't be fixed in a way that you couldn't exploit so why even bother trying?

 

I think the issue never would have come up if there was never a 3rd option to begin with. If that's true then there should really be no issue now if it goes 1st person only.

[Wayze 549]

@ Wayze.

There's absolutely no difference in accuracy or recoil in 3dp compared to FPV.

In actual fact, shooting in FPV is easier because of the view.

No, that is simply not right. In third person you don't have to bother about the recoil, because the you always see where you aim. Plus you can shoot someone while lying the the grass. Also you got a way better overview of the movement, especially in close quarter combat third person is from huge advantage.

[Jex 1104]

In third person there is no sight, you have just the little crosshair which tells you the exact point you shooting at. This would be prevented by just removing the crosshair, but I am not sure if Dean will do that.

 

Except it doesn't go to the exact point you're aiming and could be disabled in 3rd person view too for the SA

[Jex 1104]

Look, my friends play Borderlands and such in FPV and never even consider wishing it had TPV.

 

Exactly - it isn't an issue there, it's not an issue here - it's a fabricated issue. People will play the SA in FPV if that's what it ships as as the polls that have been run indicate.

[tommes 331]

 Also you got a way better overview of the movement, especially in close quarter combat third person is from huge advantage.

 

I don't think it's an advantage at all. I'd always switch to FPV for anything compat related because it feels weird in 3rd. I'd only shoot in 3rd to save the time to switch to 1st.

Switch off crosshairs would do fine to make that undesireable.

[RooBurger 285]

Just had this gunfight where we were each on the other side of a small crest of ground. We were both behind cover, yet could see each other at the same time. We couldn't flank, couldn't move away or do anything without the other person knowing. I was moving left and right, his head was following. I got sick of it, stuck my head over and tried to take a shot with my piece of shit shotgun, he killed me firing in third person with his DMR. A really weird stand off only possible with third person.