First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

If he trys to play the first person camera it is instant motion sickness followed by grab a bucket , huey and ralph .

Yes we have tried all the different settings for head wobble and alike , it is not just DayZ he can not play any 1st person view game . there is 1 exception and that is flight sims . I suspect it has something to do with in a flight sim you have the cockpit in front of you then the world at large beyond that , he can fly heli's and drive vehicles in 1st person view in DayZ no trouble .

I am not a doctor but maybe the muscles in his eyes are weak and they need something to focus on centre screen or else they wander causeing motion sickness , this is just speculation on my part .

 He can not even watch youtubes of people playing in first person view .

any help/sugestions would be great

cheers

I have a damaged vestibular nerve on the right side so I have it far worse off than most people when it comes to motion sickness. It has a lot to do with "tunnel vision" so adjusting the FOV pretty much solves the problem for me. Although the FOV is actually the same in both 1st and 3rd person, 3rd person camera is obviously positioned behind the character so you see "more" to the sides. ARMA is the only FPS I can play for as long as I want without motion sickness. I think it is because it is slower paced and 1st person is not just a floating camera like in other games. A tiny bit of headbob actually helps I think, just gliding around is not good. Has your friend tried double tapping the "-" numpad key to see if it helps?

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

dgeesio, how many people wouldn't buy the game if 3rd person camera is kept in but gets "butchered" as someone put it? How many would buy the game because it is first person only and a more immersive experience now? How many of those who voted they wouldn't buy it would cave in and buy it later anyway, perhaps in later development stage when it's more expensive? It's nowhere near as simple as "losing 100 000 sales".

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

before people jump on my post i love both views ! im not pro third person or first person. i use both just as much and one of the reason im not biased towards either. unlike alot of others who only play in one or the other.

Cool.  I'm the same tbh, I do however think it's worth a small amount of their time to see if they can refine the 3rd person cam though.

 

My reason for this (apart from thinking it's currently flawed) is that I don't want the community segregated as it has been over the last year.  I want everyone playing the same DayZ and enjoying the same experience.

 

I know it's unlikely, that's just what I'd like to see.

 

I don't want admins to have ANY choice about the "style" of DayZ they choose to put on their server.  They host a server and that's it.  If they break the rules they get blacklisted , adios.

 

Regarding the business side of things, we'll just have to agree to disagree =)

Edited September 1, 2013 by Fraggle

[gesundheitk 420]

I hate to throw myself into this argument, but just because the majority wants something, it doesn't mean that it is the correct thing to do. If that was the case and rocket went through with removing third person altogether, it won't be long before another problem gets removed because the majority doesn't want it.
 

 

I'm not an ArmA veteran, but immediately saying people that want third person are just newbies and people who only want first person are experienced ArmA players is a pretty far-out comparison.

 

My solution is that when one gets close to a wall, the camera will start to pan in smoothly to the other side, still retaining the same level of field of view, but not allowing people's camera side to be viewed over the wall. I can picture it in my head, but it's hard to make a concept of it. I'd imagine there would be some coding issues and whatnot, but I believe that with enough dedication, it can be done; maybe not the first week the alpha is released, but it can be done to some extent.

 

Personally, I love third person for when I'm walking around and wanting to get a feel for my character and his surroundings, and how he/she is reacting. When I'm in a firefight, most of the time I switch over to first person since I feel it's a much more accurate way of engaging enemies. But, most of the time, I just don't feel connected to my character in first person. I believe I touched on this earlier, but when I am in ArmA 3, and I can see the weapon moving in front of me, it helps give me a sense of direction. It made me not actually want to switch over to third person. If rocket & the team can accomplish this feeling of connection with my character when moving, I think my use of third person would drop tremendously.

 

 

 

Speaking of debates, are we still on for crosshairs being removed in standalone? I personally enjoyed that idea. However, in all the videos, I still see crosshairs and whatnot.

[dgeesio 1034]

Cool.  I'm the same tbh, I do however think it's worth a small amount of their time to see if they can refine the 3rd person cam though.

 

My reason for this (apart from thinking it's currently flawed) is that I don't want the community segregated as it has been over the last year.  I want everyone playing the same DayZ and enjoying the same experience.

 

I know it's unlikely, that's just what I'd like to see.

 

I don't want admins to have ANY choice about the "style" of DayZ they choose to put on their server.  They host a server and that's it.  If they break the rules they get blacklisted , adios.

 

Regarding the business side of things, we'll just have to agree to disagree =)

trying not to be a douche but you or other dont want to segrigate people but want third person mainly removed ? this alone is hipercritcal.

 

removing or " refining " " renaming " is just a way of bypassing it.

 

i think tbh the game should be locked down with set rules myself. reason i no longer play the mod is because it is just a admin or " god " that rules dayz. .

 

so yes set rules no admin abuse less hacks awesome. still think this might happen then private servers announced few months later which makes it all pointless. then the removed third person is intro duced and the all you can eat servers become most popula with 3rd person and then you end up where you are now a minority :lol:

 

damn i can see it already happening ;)

 

even if stuff is locked down for eg whats to stop server companies giving tools to the admin like now ? this alone makes it all pointless again. admins watching 24/7 where you do everytihng hide everything live ! breaking the whole game before you even started and here we are worrying about people looking over a wall :lol:

 

so yes its not a easy task i know that so hope i dont give the impression to you like its a easy descission cause it aint. ;)

 

as to rifining the first person camera sorry 3rd person :lol: dunno how it would work or if its worth doing. maybe just go for first or just leave as is. making a gimped third person still seems odd to me as those who mainly play 1st will still play first anyway and those who like 3rd are made to use a lesser view just because others deem it a exploit.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's not getting removed and it never will be so I'm not really sure why the peeps that like it are getting their knickers in a twist tbh.

 

Al they've said is that they're going to look at it.  That's it.  They're not stupid, if it's going to fuck the game up they'll just leave it alone and the SA will be exactly as it is now.  Rocket, the lead dev loves using 3rd person view, you should be happy about that.

 

Chances are there is no elegant way of doing it, in which case it'll just be left alone.  Of course I'd like to see them try it but I don't want them to break the game in the process.

 

Anyhoo, one thing we can agree on at least is about the admin thing <3

Edited September 1, 2013 by Fraggle

[tommes 331]

Indeed. This, I would also accept.

He didn't try to look around a corner. Might still be possible.

[exogravis 13]

3rd person for me please.

 

Don't feel like playing in first person while in first person in game.  Being two times first person is just redundant.

1st person doesn't add to immersion because 1st person loses a lot of peripheral vison and is quite good at giving motion sickness.

just go play 1st person servers.  If there is any.

Edited September 1, 2013 by exogravis

[tommes 331]

(from reddit)

 

Best suggestion I've seen in a while. I asked a while back (50 pages ago probably) what the default setting was when setting up a new server. My guess is that not that many people bother messing about with the settings and that is why we see so many third person servers available.

I don't think that will solve much because I believe that the majority of server admins is aware of the most prominent settings as nametags, waypoints and probably TPV.

[rossums 2190]

I don't know why everyone is getting so bitchy about it.
Third-person can stay and it would be fine but it definitely needs tweaked, there is no doubt about it.

In its current state it provides far too much of an advantage, not completely game breaking but pretty close, it makes 1st-person perspective a significantly worse choice for everything other than actually shooting and really detracts from everything that makes DayZ, DayZ.

I have no idea why people seem to think fixing 3rd-person is nerfing/gimping it - it NEEDS fixed, I hate using 3rd-person but I am pretty much forced to use it or severely handicap myself.
There are a few bigger 1st person only servers but most people just want the biggest population which comes via allowing both views.

[tommes 331]

Being constantly thrilled is just stressful. Not everyone wants it. Normal days sometimes are stressful enough. This can get exhausting. In 1st person you just don't see enough. It feels like wearing blinders. It also makes finding loot in grassland to a life task. Somwhere is a point where you just had enough tunnel vision, staring and blury vision. There's nothing wrong with trying to enjoy a game.

Sure. Nobody would really care much about TPV if DayZ was a single player or co-op game. But it isn't. I'd say the main part of it is about competitive PvP even if you are trying to avoid it. And exactly that is transformed into something not plausible by having TPV enabled.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Rocket, the lead dev loves using 3rd person view, you should be happy about that.

 

Mostly because of his obsession with clothes and motorbike helmets though :) He also said he mostly uses first person for actual gameplay. I think it's part of the reason he doesn't want TPV removed. As much as I love the idea around the new clothing/inventory system, having a 3D representation of our character in the inventory screen is more than enough. I really couldn't care less what do my character's clothes look like.

[tommes 331]

I've never seen someone so desperate in trying to keep this exploitative mechanic, you sir have reached a new level of being low.

* I've yet to hear of disability that can't allow players to play 1st person...

Blindness. After this thread one may be lead to believe some mental disability might be involved... :)

[dgeesio 1034]

It's not getting removed and it never will be so I'm not really sure why the peeps that like it are getting their knickers in a twist tbh.

 

Al they've said is that they're going to look at it.  That's it.  They're not stupid, if it's going to fuck the game up they'll just leave it alone and the SA will be exactly as it is now.  Rocket, the lead dev loves using 3rd person view, you should be happy about that.

 

Chances are there is no elegant way of doing it, in which case it'll just be left alone.  Of course I'd like to see them try it but I don't want them to break the game in the process.

 

Anyhoo, one thing we can agree on at least is about the admin thing <3

only reason people were getting there knickers in a twist becuase numerous people have asked for it to be removed which you know they have.

 

yes will be interesting to see how the admin stuff is handled and 3rd party map tools by admins hopefully all are banned or game updated so they wont work.

[tommes 331]

Some people can't ride rollercoasters. Is the solution to that making "motion sickness free" rollercoasters? Would that even be a rollercoaster?

I'm sorry for everbody disabled but you can't re-enable them for everything. If so, they wouldn't be disabled anymore in the first place.

[gesundheitk 420]

Some people can't ride rollercoasters. Is the solution to that making "motion sickness free" rollercoasters? Would that even be a rollercoaster?

I'm sorry for everbody disabled but you can't re-enable them for everything. If so, they wouldn't be disabled anymore in the first place.

That's not the best comparison I've seen.

 

Rollercoasters are intended for your stomach to churn, turn, and make you feel like you have no limitation of gravity.

 

DayZ is a game about trying to survive an apocalypse, and making your stomach organs isn't eaten by Infected.

 

I don't see the connection there.

[Jamz 253]

I think in actual fact it's a quite vocal minority who would like to see TPV removed altogether. As it seems to be staying in at least for the forseeable future I have another suggestion, maybe its possible to force First person when crossing an exclusion zone around a town or village, a set perimeter? Then everyone would be in first person when entering built up areas.

 

The suggestions so far I don't see as either or, incidently, but rather as a collection of ideas with the ones which can be of use maybe put together to solve some immediate issues.

[gesundheitk 420]

Know what?

 

 

Screw this thread.

 

 

 

BOOBIES

 

I'm out :(

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

only reason people were getting there knickers in a twist becuase numerous people have asked for it to be removed which you know they have.

 

yes will be interesting to see how the admin stuff is handled and 3rd party map tools by admins hopefully all are banned or game updated so they wont work.

Yeh but they're just saying what they think, that's exactly what forums are for :/  Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.  If that was the case I'dve quit the forums last year when every other suggestion was "how can we make a gameplay mechanic to stop KOS?".

 

Luckily the devs have a very clear idea of what type of game it is they're trying to make, so whilst they read the forums and listen to peoples views, it doesn't mean they're gonna make a game by commitee.  If you think that's the case then you've forgotten what Dean was like when he was running the mod.  He spent half the time telling people he hated their ideas and the other half trying to explain that the game he wants to make isn't the sort of game we'll have seen before.

 

If you're worried that his single-mindedness or motivations have changed now that money is involved then I can guarantee you that you're under-estimating him.

 

Of course though, for many peeps only time will tell and that's fair enough.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Fraggle

[tommes 331]

That's not the best comparison I've seen.

 

Rollercoasters are intended for your stomach to churn, turn, and make you feel like you have no limitation of gravity.

 

DayZ is a game about trying to survive an apocalypse, and making your stomach organs isn't eaten by Infected.

 

I don't see the connection there.

Make a rollercoaster for everyone and it wouldn't be rollercoaster anymore but sort of a miniature train giving you exactly zero thrills.

[Meesz 4]

I actually want Third-Person to be in the Standalone. I lag a lot! i don't have the best pc out there. and it only gets more annoying in first person.

[Wayze 549]

Yeh but they're just saying what they think, that's exactly what forums are for :/  Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.  If that was the case I'dve quit the forums last year when every other suggestion was "how can we make a gameplay mechanic to stop KOS?".

 

Luckily the devs have a very clear idea of what type of game it is they're trying to make, so whilst they read the forums and listen to peoples views, it doesn't mean they're gonna make a game by commitee.  If you think that's the case then you've forgotten what Dean was like when he was running the mod.  He spent half the time telling people he hated their ideas and the other half trying to explain that the game he wants to make isn't the sort of game we'll have seen before.

 

If you're worried that his single-mindedness or motivations have changed now that money is involved then I can guarantee you that you're under-estimating him.

 

Of course though, for many peeps only time will tell and that's fair enough.

He has a clear vision of immersion and gameplay. However, I think what we say indeed does effect him. And I am not sure why Dean is not removing third person immediatly without hesitation completly from the game. He knows exactly that it is immersion and combat breaking. But on the other side he knows that many many people want it. But actually that is not true, we the hardcore fans just do not want it in the game. I am not sure if he is aware of the actual situation here.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wayze

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

If I was Rocket I'd remove third person at launch, work on the modifications to it, and see how the community reacts to not having third person in the initial release.

 

I think TPV would be nice for DayZ if it worked perfect, but it's not a priority.

[dallas 5195]

He has a clear vision of immersion and gameplay. However, I think what we say indeed does effect him. And I am not sure why Dean is not removing third person immediatly without hesitation completly from the game. He knows exactly that it is immersion and combat breaking. But on the other side he knows that many many people want it. But actually that is not true, we the hardcore fans just do not want it in the game. I am not sure if he is aware of the actual situation here.

 

Removing third person requires very serious consideration, because third person seems to be the most important feature, when people are making decisions about joining a server or not, even for the "hardcore" fans whatever that means. Any decision that affects the game's server population negatively has to be considered very carefully and excluding third person view, seems to have a very negative effect on server populations. 

 

In some sense you can compare removing third person, with removing PvP from DayZ, it's just as serious a factor. DayZ will always be a multiplayer experience, while the survival and zombie mechanics adds to the game, it's the whole player meet player dynamic that creates the unpredictable moments and the unique stories DayZ thrives on. Without bandits, heroes and strangers, DayZ might become very trivial and predictable and without third person servers, you might end up with wasting all those man hours on creating a mmo structure for low population first person servers.

 

Maybe it's time to ask yourself, what is it third person does so well?

Why is it, third person fills up servers, while first person servers die?

 

Personally I think there's more to these answers, than calling us cheaters and n00bs.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Dallas

[Ken Bean 175]

Removing third person requires very serious consideration, because third person seems to be the most important feature, when people are making decisions about joining a server or not, even for the "hardcore" fans whatever that means. Any decision that affects the game's server population negatively has to be considered very carefully and excluding third person view, seems to have a very negative effect on server populations. 

 

In some sense you can compare removing third person, with removing PvP from DayZ, it's just as serious a factor. DayZ will always be a multiplayer experience, while the survival and zombie mechanics adds to the game, it's the whole player meet player dynamic that creates the unpredictable moments and the unique stories DayZ thrives on. Without bandits, heroes and strangers, DayZ might become very trivial and predictable and without third person servers, you might end up with wasting all those man hours on creating a mmo structure for low population first person servers.

 

Maybe it's time to ask yourself, what is it third person does so well?

Why is it, third person fills up servers, while first person servers die?

 

Personally I think there's more to these answers, than calling us cheaters and n00bs.

 

 

Very good points. Third person gives you time for player interaction. You have time to think, to observe and to judge.