First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[RooBurger 285]

The "freedom to choose" argument is a massive red herring. We're talking about something which is a gameplay mechanic like any other.

[mzltv 2281]

The "freedom to choose" argument is a massive red herring.

Don't be ridiculous; it's clearly an argument.

[Bludy 324]

it's enough if the exploits are gone..camera going closer to the player/not rotating near walls and such this stuff

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Don't mistaken me, I'm not getting worked up. But seriously, you don't want consenting adults to make their own decision...? Jeez, its like the australian game classifications all over again :P I just don't understand why you don't want people to play their own way. Given that there is going to be first person only servers, the option to completely ignore the people who have made the TPV choice, etc. why do you not want people to have choice? Is that not like saying 'I don't want there to be survival horror games because I believe shooters should be the only genre available'? I'm genuinely asking because I really want to know what your answer is when you have the option not to expose yourself to anothe persons choice.

 

I believe having a community divided by choices is not good for the game. DayZ should be the same experience for everyone.

 

If we want to analyze Rockets comments, I believe you are incorrect and SA won't have first person only servers. He knows there's no point if it's just going to end up with everyone in the third person servers. So, unless he changes his mind, I believe we'll see everyone in the same game, no choices, but that will be a mix of a butchered third person and first.

 

 

 

I'm comfortable that enough rational has been established for the absolute and complete removal of third person from the standalone. I also believe that third person allowed servers, by virtue of demand, are more popular in the mod than first person ones. I think that it has been demonstrated that there is a "problem" with the allowance of third person, and the proposed solution is the best I can come up with. It's not perfect, but if we just allow servers to turn it on/off then I think demand will dictate that people gravitate to 'third person allowed" servers - despite them acknowledging the exploits.

Edited August 28, 2013 by bad_mojo

[SMLE 39]

The "freedom to choose" argument is a massive red herring. We're talking about something which is a gameplay mechanic like any other.

The freedom to choose argument is a logical solution to an impasse caused by the first person view people who think it should be my way or the hiway and fail to see there are alternatives .

Choice the thing that goes bump in the night

P.S. a red herring is a fish :P

[Jamz 253]

This is a chance to help develop a view mode not yet seen in a mainstream pvp game, I'd like to see a modified third person replace the present version and first person stay. As we seem unable or unwilling to properly discuss fixes to third (for pvp, I disagree that it it is exploitable around zombies simply because their aggro range is so indistinct) beyond what is already being looked at, I'm going to mention my problems with the first person view.

 

We all agree that while in first person there are absolutely no exploits to do with the view , but I find when playing in first that things seem very close, for instance when climbing a ladder it seems like my face is an inch away from the rungs rather than a foot away like it would be. A small detail, but part of the whole experience. Also, when prone in grass the inability to see what is ahead through it is unrealistic to me - there should at least be an action that raises the 'head' or camera POV to look over things (like if you raise your head in real life). The graphics seem to look more immersive in third, I'm not sure why but maybe the textures need reworking a little. Head bob is too exaggerated, I wouldn't want it removed but rather toned down and un-turnoffable. Lastly I'd like an easier way of looking around oneself to check the immediate vicinity.

 

Maybe other people have similar issues with it, it's definitley an inferior and more frustating (but not any harder) experience when compared with other FPS games I've played. View wise, it actually reminds me a bit of BF1942, a game from 2002.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Jamz

[tommes 331]

What about that?

http://youtu.be/sCbrCocprE0

Keep in mind, that in a town you have a massive amount of "built in" hideouts and corners. A sniper carmouflaging his head as being a smokestack while "openly" watching you running around is not a scenario which is unrealistic.

Dude, whatever you think, this is not an valid argument for 3rd person view. Humans in real life don't have 3rd person view! Players in Arma/DayZ can use essentially the same tactics as in reality to conceal themselves. Of course within the limits of the game. Magic floating eyeballs is no solution!

[tommes 331]

It still amazes me that you guys call this an exploit. Looks totally legit, doesn't it?

It totally amazes me how you still not get how this is totally bullshit.

[tommes 331]

The dude on the roof is not more in advantage than the one who wears night vision googles in a pitch black night. Would you also insist in removing NVGs?

NVGs don't provide you with 360° vision all around. They limit you field of view even further. Another total non argument from you. You don't make any sensible point.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts but read this thread , really read it and tell me I am wrong .

Split servers and everybody is happy but no that's not good enough ?

Choice a way forward

Sorry I have to ask but are you retarded or don't you follow this discussion? We explained the bad effects of having this choice in detail.

[SmashT 10907]

Sorry I have to ask but are you retarded or don't you follow this discussion? We explained the bad effects of having this choice in detail.

 

If you disagree with someone on some point, please do not resort to name calling or personal attacks, rather argue the merits of their points. This isn't a playground. You don't have to call people names to get your point across.

[tommes 331]

I'm sorry, but there's nothing easy about third when it comes to actually playing in third.  It's only easy for campers, a group that will to exist with or without third person.  A camper only has to cover the entrance to a popular loot spot to stack bodies, the only difference is whether he's inside the building or outside.

So TPV plays in favor of lame campers? Wow! We didn't think of that...why don't we open a thread about that?

A guy sitting inside will have very limited vision...unless he can exploit TPV...another completely new point in this discussion of course...

[SMLE 39]

NVGs don't provide you with 360° vision all around. They limit you field of view even further. Another total non argument from you. You don't make any sensible point.

Sorry I have to ask but are you retarded or don't you follow this discussion? We explained the bad effects of having this choice in detail.

If it takes being labeled a "retard" to move this discussion forward then so be it , but at least I am open to different ways of doing things you seem stuck in your firstperson shooter world scared of change and unwilling or unable to add intelligent comment on the matter at hand .

Again /sigh if you want 1st person play on that type of server leave the majority alone to enjoy the game their way its really quite an easy concept to grasp if even me a "retard" can get it . :P

Flooding the Thread with pointless posts and personal insults does nothing for your cause .

Choice even retards get it

[tommes 331]

If you disagree with someone on some point, please do not resort to name calling or personal attacks, rather argue the merits of their points. This isn't a playground. You don't have to call people names to get your point across.

As I said, I had to ask this question because of what his "point" was.

But this is a general problem in such discussions. You can't really see the points independently from the ones making them because for many of those there's only one reason: personal incapabilities. (That is the nice version. What I actually mean is they are a bunch of dumb lamers I wouldn't want to play with in the first place...if I had this godly choice they're praying...which is not there because those guys are everywhere in swarms...)

I should stop following this thread. Will have no effect anyway on Rocket or the game and the opposition is clearly incapable or unwilling to see and understand the side of the FPV advocates. Makes no sense to make the points over and over again when they are ignored anyway.

But once again, that's why choice will lead into desaster. People cannot distinguish right form wrong by themselves. They tend to choose to be assholes just because they are incapable of realizing how they are. Sad but true.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Avoiding the issues being brought up and saying "Choice" over and over is just as useless as throwing around insults.

[tommes 331]

If it takes being labeled a "retard" to move this discussion forward then so be it , but at least I am open to different ways of doing things you seem stuck in your firstperson shooter world scared of change and unwilling or unable to add intelligent comment on the matter at hand .

Again /sigh if you want 1st person play on that type of server leave the majority alone to enjoy the game their way its really quite an easy concept to grasp if even me a "retard" can get it . :P

Flooding the Thread with pointless posts and personal insults does nothing for your cause .

Choice even retards get it

I know you don't have any idea how much fail your post is. Have a nice day anyway.

[SMLE 39]

As I said, I had to ask this question because of what his "point" was.

But this is a general problem in such discussions. You can't really see the points independently from the ones making them because for many of those there's only one reason: personal incapabilities. (That is the nice version. What I actually mean is they are a bunch of dumb lamers I wouldn't want to play with in the first place...if I had this godly choice they're praying...which is not there because those guys are everywhere in swarms...)

I should stop following this thread. Will have no effect anyway on Rocket or the game and the opposition is clearly incapable or unwilling to see and understand the side of the FPV advocates. Makes no sense to make the points over and over again when they are ignored anyway.

But once again, that's why choice will lead into desaster. People cannot distinguish right form wrong by themselves. They tend to choose to be assholes just because they are incapable of realizing how they are. Sad but true.

Your opinion and a very dark view of your fellow man . I like to think with a bit of education most people will figure out the right thing to do and do it .

I know im an optimist to the end .

Choice its even free

[SMLE 39]

Avoiding the issues being brought up and saying "Choice" over and over is just as useless as throwing around insults.

Not avoiding the issues if you read the thread I am offering choices to move forward and keep as many people happy as possible , also im being civil about it .

Choice is good

[RedNome 443]

As I said, I had to ask this question because of what his "point" was.

But this is a general problem in such discussions. You can't really see the points independently from the ones making them because for many of those there's only one reason: personal incapabilities. (That is the nice version. What I actually mean is they are a bunch of dumb lamers I wouldn't want to play with in the first place...if I had this godly choice they're praying...which is not there because those guys are everywhere in swarms...)

I should stop following this thread. Will have no effect anyway on Rocket or the game and the opposition is clearly incapable or unwilling to see and understand the side of the FPV advocates. Makes no sense to make the points over and over again when they are ignored anyway.

But once again, that's why choice will lead into desaster. People cannot distinguish right form wrong by themselves. They tend to choose to be assholes just because they are incapable of realizing how they are. Sad but true.

 

Your arrogance and insults to other members who don't agree with you have been an overriding theme of this thread so far, I would thread ban you if I had the power as you don't seem to have the capabilities to discuss this matter in a mature and adult fashion.

[SmashT 10907]

Not avoiding the issues if you read the thread I am offering choices to move forward and keep as many people happy as possible , also im being civil about it .

Choice is good

 

You haven't really offered anything to the debate other than parroting one liners. We know third person isn't going to be removed and we know they already have a proposal/plan for eliminating the worst offending issues with third person. Nobody is going to take your choice of first person or third person away but they are both going to be improved. We have already had the introduction of an FOV slider as that was a major complaint with first person and the devs are proposing changes to third person that eliminate issues detrimental to gameplay. 

 

People have an opportunity here to discuss/debate the current proposal from the devs or suggest alternatives (some ideas have already been picked up by them and are being looked at) but instead most people are just quarrelling over whether they prefer first or third person. :/

Edited August 28, 2013 by SmashT

[tommes 331]

Your opinion and a very dark view of your fellow man . I like to think with a bit of education most people will figure out the right thing to do and do it .

I know im an optimist to the end .

Choice its even free

I'm a cynic. Out of experience. I've watched my fellow man for quite some time yet.

How about you use your capability to choose to educate yourself into how to play DayZ in FPV? You might find out that this is the right thing. And even if not, you might finally make valid points for your case.

[SMLE 39]

You haven't really offered anything to the debate other than parroting one liners. We know third person isn't going to be removed and we know they already have a proposal/plan for eliminating the worst offending issues with third person. Nobody is going to take your choice of first person or third person away but they are both going to be improved. We have already had the introduction of an FOV slider as that was a major complaint with first person and the devs are proposing changes to third person that eliminate issues detrimental to gameplay. 

 

People have an opportunity here to discuss/debate the current proposal from the devs or suggest alternatives (some ideas have already been picked up by them and are being looked at) but instead most people are just quarrelling over whether they prefer first or third person. :/

I have offered more than many but you choose to ignore it I don't know why , I have been mostly neutral trying not to take sides and include a solution that is already in the game , includes everybody and requires no added dev work , but some people here are hell bent on their chosen way of playing and that's it .

   As you say people have complained but it seems the people complaining are complaining about how other people like to play the game not really fair I think , also as you say the changes are proposed not final so now is the time for us to try and get our views across is it not .

finally the "parroting one liners" are my attempt to lighten the mood it seems to get a bit hostile here .

If my posts have been in any way offensive I will leave just say the word .

cheers

oh yes and Choice is good

[tommes 331]

Your arrogance and insults to other members who don't agree with you have been an overriding theme of this thread so far,

I wanted it to show. What is contempt worth if you can't show it?

I would thread ban you if I had the power as you don't seem to have the capabilities to discuss this matter in a mature and adult fashion.

I have a lot of capabilities. Especially regarding discussions. Especially in internet boards. Doing that since a long time. The problem is that I don't see much of that in the opposition here. You can only discuss stuff sensibly if the other side plays along. But they can only play in 3rd person view...far away from other players. Too sad they don't combat log... ^^

[SMLE 39]

I'm a cynic. Out of experience. I've watched my fellow man for quite some time yet.

How about you use your capability to choose to educate yourself into how to play DayZ in FPV? You might find out that this is the right thing. And even if not, you might finally make valid points for your case.

You should never assume , I do in fact play DayZ in FPV and 3rd depending on the situation and what I feel like doing that is the beauty of how DayZ works at the moment I get to choose .

cheers

ok no more Choice comments I think its upsetting the Blue names :P

[SmashT 10907]

I have offered more than many but you choose to ignore it I don't know why , I have been mostly neutral trying not to take sides and include a solution that is already in the game , includes everybody and requires no added dev work , but some people here are hell bent on their chosen way of playing and that's it .

   As you say people have complained but it seems the people complaining are complaining about how other people like to play the game not really fair I think , also as you say the changes are proposed not final so now is the time for us to try and get our views across is it not .

finally the "parroting one liners" are my attempt to lighten the mood it seems to get a bit hostile here .

If my posts have been in any way offensive I will leave just say the word .

cheers

oh yes and Choice is good

 

The only solution I've seen you offer is to not do anything which really isn't a solution at all as it doesn't address the current problems with third person (acknowledged as problems by the developers). You haven't been offensive but repeating "Choice is good" etc 30+ times certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Edited August 28, 2013 by SmashT

[SMLE 39]

The only solution I've seen you offer is to not do anything which really isn't a solution at all as it doesn't address the current problems with third person (acknowledged as problems by the developers). You haven't been offensive but repeating "Choice is good" etc 30+ times certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Wow I'm glad to see I got through to someone finally , exactly why try and fix something that isn't broken I expect the devs reacted to the noisey minority and have yet to hear the other side of the story from the people these changes will effect mostly , you cant seriously telly me the devs will willingly throw away a formula that has made DayZ as popular as it has become .

just my thoughts .

cheers

oh and re the choice is good 30+ times see my poste above

Edited August 28, 2013 by SMLE