First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[DemonGroover 8836]

Because you currently are.

[terrvik 2409]

You are welcome to choose.

Choice is good.

[Ken Bean 175]

Please explain how the game can be easier when other player are invisible and invincible as you claim if they are in 3rd person on a roof?

Man, those other invincible and invisible player are not friendly most of the time.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Ken Bean

[wild_man 4442]

 Why the heck you think I want to play easy mode?!

exactly this, why the heck you want to play easy mode?! :lol:

 

3rd person is easy mode, you know this one right? you read thread? :P

 

edit for me normal mode/easy mode is fair solution for all guys get what they want

+1 for this idea demongroove :beans: and terrorviktor :beans:

Edited August 28, 2013 by KoS

[Ken Bean 175]

exactly this, why the heck you want to play easy mode?! :lol:

 

3rd person is easy mode, you know this one right? you read thread? :P

 

edit for me normal mode/easy mode is fair solution for all guys get what they want

+1 for this idea demongroove :beans: and terrorviktor :beans:

You are still not getting that 1st person server and 3rd person server is what people want? Then please explain how it is easier for me when other player are more dangerous.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

How about this for a fix....

 

When you are in third person view, you can only see player models that are visible in first person. So, when you peak over a wall, you see nothing, but walk around the wall and the zombies/players appear.

 

Of course seeing this happen would be immersion breaking for third person players, and extremely confusing to new players, but it would fix the exploits.

 

This idea can be seen in the game World of Tanks, when in third person view you can see over stuff and around corners, but you have to get your commander/crew to spot the tank before it appears.

 

(This isn't at all what I personally would want for DayZ SA. I would like to see third person removed, but if third person is staying, we gotta find some way to fix it.)

[terrvik 2409]

Please explain how the game can be easier when other player are invisible and invincible as you claim if they are in 3rd person on a roof?

Man, those other invincible and invisible player are not friendly most of the time.

It's not just about other players. You can see infected before they can possibly see you. You can scan a compound before actually entering it even when not in a position to do so. Don't even get me started on vehicles. Landing in a tight clearing should be difficult. Backing a truck in a tight spot should take some skill, maybe even someone outside the truck to guide you.

It's not just about other players.

EDIT: would love to discuss in more detail but Im on the phone and the touchpad is murdering my patience. Please forgive me for being short and maybe incoherent. :)

Edited August 28, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

It's not just about other players. You can see infected before they can possibly see you. You can scan a compound before actually entering it even when not in a position to do so. Don't even get me started on vehicles. Landing in a tight clearing should be difficult. Backing a truck in a tight spot should take some skill, maybe even someone outside the truck to guide you.

It's not just about other players.

EDIT: would love to discuss in more detail but Im on the phone and the touchpad is murdering my patience. Please forgive me for being short and maybe incoherent. :)

 

inb4 mirrors!

 

(not that it's a valid argument, I can just tell that's what Ken will respond with)

Edited August 28, 2013 by bad_mojo

[wild_man 4442]

You are still not getting that 1st person server and 3rd person server is what people want? Then please explain how it is easier for me when other player are more dangerous.

3rd person make dayz easier for you because

 

you see player before normal times :huh:

you see zeds before normal times :huh:

you see more FOV and more high for exploit, also angle for corner but stay hide :huh:

is make easier so mode is easy mode, is not science is simple true thing  :D

 

you want some choice you have choice

 

play junior league with carebear guys and when you feeling confident please come to serious player lounge B)

 

where dayz is maximum realism, no magic time wall hack true hardcore game with minimum happy fun but maximum fear fun. :thumbsup:  ;)

[Ken Bean 175]

It's not just about other players. You can see infected before they can possibly see you. You can scan a compound before actually entering it even when not in a position to do so. Don't even get me started on vehicles. Landing in a tight clearing should be difficult. Backing a truck in a tight spot should take some skill, maybe even someone outside the truck to guide you.

It's not just about other players.

You confuse the main threat with the zeds. Zeds are dangerous because they are many and because you make mistakes. The video in the opening post clearly says that the 3st person view would be unfair. So those 1st person only dudes feel like being in a disadvantage because the 3rtd person would be superior. There is no word of the Zeds, hence game they've chose for their demonstration doen't even have zeds. So under the bottom line, you guys feel underpowered, because the 3rd person seems to be "god like". The point is, that's not true. All player have the same "problem", or abilities. The 3rd person player also have to face 3rd person player. So you get the idea what happened. You don't want the other to use 3rd person, because you don't want to.

Just to quote KoS right above.

 

3rd person make dayz easier for you because

you see player before normal times :huh:

you see zeds before normal times :huh:

you see more FOV and more high for exploit, also angle for corner but stay hide :huh:

is make easier so mode is easy mode, is not science is simple true thing :D

you want some choice you have choice

play junior league with carebear guys and when you feeling confident please come to serious player lounge B)

where dayz is maximum realism, no magic time wall hack true hardcore game with minimum happy fun but maximum fear fun. :thumbsup: ;)

He feels 3rd person to be superior and he doesn't want it himself, sees it as exploit, not as feature which enriches the game. Because his preference just is 1st person, the "normal view" how he calls it. You guys all the time say that the game with 3rd person enabled is to hard for you. Do you really think it's easier for me? It's still the same game we are playing, right?

Edited August 28, 2013 by Ken Bean

[SMLE 39]

SMLE

 

I get that zombies aren't realistic and that point has been made countless times in this forum when arguments or rebuttals run thin.  It isn't the point. Remember this video is just as much about Arma than DayZ.  The same exploits are used in a military simulation.  And that's the key word  - simulation.

 

You cannot honestly defend something that gives one player an advantage over another that isn't based on skill or luck but by a perspective.

 

Like i said,  to scope a town from a rooftop should incorporate risk.  You have to get up and peek over a wall, thus exposing yourself for a fraction of time - at least giving someone a chance of spotting you if they are scoping the rooftops like most good players will. At the moment the only time a player needs to get up is the moment of shooting where they can aim and fire in a second.

 

I am not saying remove 3rd person - we were past that argument the moment Rocket said 3rd person is to stay.  But the exploits need to and i am sure will be looked at by the devs.

 

Perhaps there needs to be 3 levels of servers

 

Hardcore  -1st only

Normal -  A modified 3rd enabled (ie 1st for prone, closer camera)

Easy - 3rd person as is

 

Lets just state it how it is and let the people make their choice since you seem to be the great advocate of democracy.

Sorry but i am not normally a forum follower so I didnt know about the "zombies aren't realistic" in joke , weather my arguments are running thin ill let others decide .

Ok point 1 this thread is about DayZ not armor , these "exploits" are in fact features used in most mainstream MMO's if you dont like the features offered on a 3rd person view server go to the 1st person view server , easy .

 All your coments about the scope guy on the roof are irrelevant as long as people are all playing under the same rules all is good .

  Why change anything about 3rd person view you have a choice play on a server that suits you.

Why 3 levels do you want to make more work for the devs ? as it is the choices are enough , in place already and need no more dev time .

Oh and I am no advocate of democracy in this case I like everybody else here have my own vested interest .

Choice now caffeine free

[droznig 20]

So if the 1st and 3rd person servers are still going to exist WHY do you 1st person view people want to change 3rd person view ? you will not even be playing on those servers if what you say is true .

But this thread is not about what is best for the game it is about a small group of people , a noise minority , trying to influence Mr Hall into basterdizing 3rd person view to a point where they hope more people will play 1st person view , their way , the proper way according to them .

 The vast silent majority play in 3rd person , fact , they are happy with what they have and are not here complaining , if you were truly interested in what is best for the game the only answer is separate servers for the two view styles , no more work involved its already there everybodys happy except maybe our squeaky hinge that can not except that their way is not the only way or even the best way .

Choice more fun than sux tunnies in a chully bun

cheers

I've said it many times before and will say it again, for any one in europe, there are no active fpv servers left. secondly, the fact that people from tpv servers can hop on to fpv servers gives them an unfair advantage. The point is, the way that it works now, people who prefer fpv are being forced to play tpv or not at all and that is not cool.

 

Every one knows that tpv is much much easier to survive than fpv, there might be an invisible sniper on the hill, but you can be completely invisible too while checking out an area the sniper doesn't even need to see you before you make a choice to go in,you can check inside buildings before eposing yourself, minimising risk, around corners minimising risk, count zombies before you commit to a situation, all before you ever make yourself visible. It's much much easier, you are the only person here who would argue otherwise.

 

But the point is, why should people playing easy mode be allowed to switch after the got their no risk gear to a hard mode server, that's utterly rediculous. Yes, let people choose, but make the choices mean something. Not one foot in one foot out.

Edited August 28, 2013 by droznig

[terrvik 2409]

Ken: As I said; I'm unable to really discuss this at length right now because I suffer from severe phone handicap. I WILL however get back with some replies as soon as I'm able, mmmkay? :)

EDIT: Just gonna say this while it's a hot topic. I do not feel like I am underpowered on a TPV server, or that it's too hard for me. I feel too safe. It's boring. I have far too much awareness. Same with side chat. People asking who shot where and announcing where they are. Convenient, sure, but boring.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Ken Bean 175]

I've said it many times before and will say it again, for any one in europe, there are no active fpv servers left. secondly, the fact that people from tpv servers can hop on to fpv servers gives them an unfair advantage. The point is, the way that it works now, people who prefer fpv are being forced to play tpv or not at all and that is not cool.

I believe that the SA will not have the same server situation as it is now. (The majority of server are driven by the community). So if the server of the SA are run by BI, it would be easiest way to always provide enough 1st person server for those who are interested in. I know, atm you only could run such a server yourself, but this will cost quite a lot per year.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

So if the 1st and 3rd person servers are still going to exist WHY do you 1st person view people want to change 3rd person view ? you will not even be playing on those servers if what you say is true .

But this thread is not about what is best for the game it is about a small group of people , a noise minority , trying to influence Mr Hall into basterdizing 3rd person view to a point where they hope more people will play 1st person view , their way , the proper way according to them .

 The vast silent majority play in 3rd person , fact , they are happy with what they have and are not here complaining , if you were truly interested in what is best for the game the only answer is separate servers for the two view styles , no more work involved its already there everybodys happy except maybe our squeaky hinge that can not except that their way is not the only way or even the best way .

Choice more fun than sux tunnies in a chully bun

cheers

I currently play on third person servers, yet I don't want it in the standalone, your points are invalid.

Edited August 28, 2013 by bad_mojo

[Wayze 549]

Well maybe they have more fun there, whats the problem? Yes tactics is also sth which lets people feel more save. Also having a weapon in a zomby apocalypse feels more save. Having antibiotics feels more save. And last but not least, playing games feels more save (you don't seriously die). But correct me if I'm wrong: You feel more save if the 3rd person view is being removed, right?

Have some fun? Go play Call of Duty or Super Mario if you want some "fun".

 

As you probably noticed, Dean is doing everything to take the feeling of savety. So no weapons anymore, no ammo anymore and antibiotics, hell you gonna be a lucky guy if you find some. But these things are the core elements of the game, a wall hacking feature is not one of them. Actually it is destroying one of the main features, which is infact the combat system.

Playing a game feels more save? More save than what? We are talking about the game, not the real life, don't you know the difference anymore?

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I believe that the SA will not have the same server situation as it is now. (The majority of server are driven by the community). So if the server of the SA are run by BI, it would be easiest way to always provide enough 1st person server for those who are interested in. I know, atm you only could run such a server yourself, but this will cost quite a lot per year.

Pretty sure it's been confirmed that servers in standalone will also be run by the community, not BI.

[Wayze 549]

Pretty sure it's been confirmed that servers in standalone will also be run by the community, not BI.

Yes that is the problem, there won't be even any first person servers and if there are they are either full of empty.

[SMLE 39]

I've said it many times before and will say it again, for any one in europe, there are no active fpv servers left. secondly, the fact that people from tpv servers can hop on to fpv servers gives them an unfair advantage. The point is, the way that it works now, people who prefer fpv are being forced to play tpv or not at all and that is not cool.

 

Every one knows that tpv is much much easier to survive than fpv, there might be an invisible sniper on the hill, but you can be completely invisible too while checking out an area the sniper doesn't even need to see you before you make a choice to go in,you can check inside buildings before eposing yourself, minimising risk, around corners minimising risk, count zombies before you commit to a situation, all before you ever make yourself visible. It's much much easier, you are the only person here who would argue otherwise.

 

But the point is, why should people playing easy mode be allowed to switch after the got their no risk gear to a hard mode server, that's utterly rediculous. Yes, let people choose, but make the choices mean something. Not one foot in one foot out.

Once again this post is not about the pro's and cons of the different views but about a minority who can't find servers to suit their play style , why dump on 3rd person view people it wont help your cause , either way server avaibility is not what this thread is about I think .

Choice lasts the hole day through .

[DemonGroover 8836]

A question.

 

Does everyone who plays 3rd person jump into 1st person during combat, or at least when firing at someone?

 

And if so, why? Surely not because it is easier to shoot in 1st person??

Edited August 28, 2013 by DemonGroover

[wild_man 4442]

 He feels 3rd person to be superior and he doesn't want it himself, sees it as exploit, not as feature which enriches the game. Because his preference just is 1st person, the "normal view" how he calls it. You guys all the time say that the game with 3rd person enabled is to hard for you. Do you really think it's easier for me? It's still the same game we are playing, right?

is easier mode :D

easier for see zeds before they see you :thumbsup:

easier for see some loot :thumbsup:

easier for spot car and bike :thumbsup:

easier, easier 3rd person is easier. ;)

 

first person is normal way, you still don't see this?

 

2 hive

one normal with 1st only

one easy with 3rd and 1st

 

is perfect solution for this difficult 40+ page debate :thumbsup:  :beans:

 

is give every guy what he want, rocket, youtubeland, hardcore player, fun player, every guy get win

 

demongroove :beans:  and terrorviktor :beans:  find answer.

 

for me debate is finish B)

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Once again this post is not about the pro's and cons of the different views but about a minority who can't find servers to suit their play style , why dump on 3rd person view people it wont help your cause , either way server avaibility is not what this thread is about I think .

Choice lasts the hole day through .

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's not about finding a server that suits my play style, it's about making DayZ a better game overall, regardless of what my playstyle includes or what I find fun.

 

is easier mode :D

easier for see zeds before they see you :thumbsup:

easier for see some loot :thumbsup:

easier for spot car and bike :thumbsup:

easier, easier 3rd person is easier. ;)

 

first person is normal way, you still don't see this?

 

2 hive

one normal with 1st only

one easy with 3rd and 1st

 

is perfect solution for this difficult 40+ page debate :thumbsup:  :beans:

 

is give every guy what he want, rocket, youtubeland, hardcore player, fun player, every guy get win

 

demongroove :beans:  and terrorviktor :beans:  find answer.

 

for me debate is finish B)

 

While I agree different hive servers would go a long way in making things fair, I still think work should be done on third person to make it less exploitable, even if I never use it myself. It's about making DayZ a better product, it's not about making it better for just me.

[wild_man 4442]

 

While I agree different hive servers would go a long way in making things fair, I still think work should be done on third person to make it less exploitable, even if I never use it myself. It's about making DayZ a better product, it's not about making it better for just me.

is good idea :beans: devs can make work on this for beta, is true 100% 3rd person exploit must be reduce

 

if they make 2 hive is no need waste time now on this problem, focus 100% make SA awesome shit :thumbsup:  :D

Edited August 28, 2013 by KoS

[SMLE 39]

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's not about finding a server that suits my play style, it's about making DayZ a better game overall, regardless of what my playstyle includes or what I find fun.

 

 

While I agree different hive servers would go a long way in making things fair, I still think work should be done on third person to make it less exploitable, even if I never use it myself. It's about making DayZ a better product, it's not about making it better for just me.

Yes but a better game for who ? definatly not the vast majority that like 3rd person view .

Oh and there you go using the E word again , say it all you like does not make it true .

Choice now with built in bottle opener

[Ken Bean 175]

A question.

 

Does everyone who plays 3rd person jump into 1st person during combat, or at least when firing at someone?

 

And if so, why? Surely not because it is easier to shoot in 1st person??

Sometimes, if I have plenty time. Point is I'm very confused in a combat situation since switching views also means a bit of new orientation. Even more if you have to look through the iron sight or a scope. It doesnt work well for me to go from a thirt person view into a scope view without loosing orientation a bit. So I try to stand still and shoot in 3rd person. Some server dont have a crosshair, so its quite a combat stile which can be called immediate self-defence.

Besides of that I'm not shooting at player without self-defense at all. I only go into first person if I have plenty time, if the dude in question is far away and if I face zeds with my secondary. (The primary always is a long range weapon and I try to avoid the use of a long range weapon in close combat. Only if I'm out of ammo with my secondary and if I dont need to worry about other player could hear me.)

But yes, aiming in 3rd peron is almost impossible if the target is more than 5m away or sth.

I can't speak for all and I assume you have the same advantages and disadvantages in 1st or 3rd person as me.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Ken Bean