no Side chat = Community Growth will be damaged

[flyingmonkey (DayZ) 0]

The only reason you feel the need for global chat is because that is what you have been spoonfed by games for years, if no games had it, you would have adjusted accordingly already and this would be nothing new.

If DayZ never had sidechat, you wouldn't be asking to have sidechat, it would just be natural not to have it, and would be using other forms for your social commentaries.

You say that this will increase DM because it leaves barely any social exchange left? I say it does the opposite, humans are social creatures and when you starve them of that, they will soon be willing to do anything to have a few conversations instead of blatantly shooting people instead.

People who play to PK will always play to PK, nothing will change that.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

People who demand the removal of Global Chat seriously have no clue about game design.

No. Actually' date=' people who immediately dismiss new design paradigms because they don't precisely match up with their personal subjective expectations built up by years of demanding the same tried-and-true if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it approach to game design - the kind of game design that produces sequel after sequel after sequel of the same 6 basic game types without risking innovation because that might impact the bottom line - are the ones who are lacking a clue.

I have been variously an engineer, designer and producer. I've been in the industry for over 10 years. And what rocket is doing is amazing. He doesn't just go over to the last AAA online FPS and say "Okay, what features did they have? Let me take those and then that will be my starting point" and then here we would be playing CoD: Zombies in Russia.

Instead he is taking risks. Asking questions that other designers aren't willing to ask and doing things that major publishers would scoff at because they risk alienating the "general public" or the "casual gamer" or "women over 30" or whichever arbitrary market their current research shows is spending the most money currently.

What he expects in return is an open mind. Not a narrow view of "do what has come before or else" but a patient, methodical approach that asks the question "What will this change mean for me? How can I adapt to it? What will that change about the way I experience the game?" He expects us to innovate and improvise - use smoke grenades to communication, come up with body language to indicate intent at a distance. Experiment and come up with new mechanics to suggest apart from "Bring back global chat!"

So, no, we're not clueless. We're intrigued. We're patient. We're interested in the questions rocket is posing and the risks he is taking and we want to see them play out instead of stamping our feet and making demands like a bunch of piss-soaked, petulent toddlers who skipped nap time and are cranky.

And lets face it. Without the ability to moderate, kick/ban players

We have that ability.

Your argument is so flawed, regarding direct chat

As opposed to yours which is as of yet non-existent. Basically your primary complaint seems to be that Direct Comms are dangerous well, hey, guess what. Tough shit.

There is much more to be discussed in global, as long as the people on server are experienced/mature.

I have played DayZ for 360 hours. Care to take a wild guess how many "mature" conversations I've seen take place in side chat in that time? Go ahead. Guess. I dare you to guess how many.

There are just some things in gamedesign where sticking to realism over another game feature is inferior and should not be done.

There you go talking about game design again. Except you just say those two words and don't actually discuss design in any way. You can't just invoke "game design" like it's some kind of mythical codex. What "game design" means and what things are important to a particular design depend entirely on the game you are designing the personal goals of the designer. There are no hard-and-fasts here, I'm sorry. That's just not how it works. If that makes you somehow uncomfortable - the thought that maybe it's not about what you want and what your expectations are, then just back slowly away from DayZ and don't come back.

At the end of the day, people like me.. who play in a group.. won't care about global chat anyway...

Wait, what? Okay? Then shut the fuck up about it and go play?

Now how realistic is that? - And there is nothing rocket can do about it. There are just limits which have to be drawn.

What makes you think the removal of global chat is based on realism? Nobody but the players ever said that. You have no idea if that's rocket's justification.

You can barely play the game properly with less than two players

What? You can barely play this MULTIPLAYER brutally harsh survival game as if it were a single player game? Wow. Imagine that. Tell me more.

[osram 0]

Spoonfed by games for years? You do realize that chatting fulfills a very specific function, do you? It's not just around for giggles. Games have had chat since their early beginnings. From underground classics, indie-type games to AAA titles. They all had and still have a general chat, unless the gameplay mechanic does not allow global chat. (Certain team-based games) Pretending utopian "Ifs" or pretendings that chat does not fulfill any function, i.e. entirely ignoring its benefits for no reason does not change anything about that.

If DayZ never had a side chat I would still be in favor of sidechat, since it is avaiable in games since their beginning, and it is also avaiable in any ARMA Variation or Mod. It is called culture. That's the "natural" way, because people are used to it over a long period of time. "Would had Would Would Ifs and Afs"... Yes. Whatever... It doesn't just become "natural" just because you think or say so.

At least there would be no need to listen to your utopian arguments, IF there was a choice for admins/players to enable/disable it. Because this discussion would be obsolete... and I could go out of the forums, back into the bugtracker.. or into the game. ;)

Yes I say it will increase Deathmatching, because humans ADAPT. And if the first thing they experience on a server is being shot down by most encountered players, they will in turn shoot most players themself.

And if the only thing they see upon joining, is a cold and hostile environment... without any social feedback they are more inclined to shoot, out of fear. The more people shoot, the less people will act friendly, obviously.

Nevertheless... the question about wether it in- or decreases deathmatching does not change anything about the benefits over downsides of global chat. Hence why it has been around for ages. Ignoring all of the benefits does not work.

[dinosaurJR 0]

I liked to think of the Global chat as being a "radio" of sorts... Not "telepathy" as some have named it. I also thought of direct as your proper voice, as in the guy is in talking distance therefore no need to use your global "radio". The trade off was that even though you could communicate over vast distances, everyone could hear you (or read you, whatever...)

Just the way I tuned my mind to get around the fact that you could communicate with everyone on the server. You know, suspension of disbelief, buying the story, whatever you call it these days.

Why not implement it so that once you find an actual radio, you have access to the global chat? Without it, you are restricted to direct (unless you can shout really, really FUCKING LOUD...)

Just my two cents, adrift in an ocean of two cents...

On a related note - the hostility around here linked to the complexity now required to install the beta patch (for my limited technological capability) added to the fact that every server seems to be running god knows what version has really turned me off this mod for now. I love it, but I'm staying away until this patch/hotfix/patch/hotfix/hotfix ad nauseum has calmed down a bit.

See you all in a couple of weeks :)

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You do realize that chatting fulfills a very specific function' date=' do you?[/quote']

No, it actually serves a variety of functions. But, are these functions necessary to DayZ? If so, why? Are there alternatives to these functions which have different inputs but produce similar outputs? If not, what mechanics might we suggest that would permit such in a way that's more consistent with DayZ's vision of isolation, struggle, uncertainty and fear?

You keep making declarative statements but your posts lack any kind of depth or substance of argument. You say chat serves a "function" but you don't bother elucidating what that function is and why it's important for the experience of DayZ. People say that we need chat to "get together" but the act of getting together is actually a critical milestone in the life of a DayZ survivor. It's one of the game's primary goals and a critical path to success in accomplishing some of the advanced goals in the game safely - such as raiding airfields, repairing vehicles, etc.

So why should the most important goal in the game be simplified down to typing a few words into a chat box? Yes it makes contacting other survivors dead simple, but it's not supposed to be simple in DayZ. You're supposed to have to work at it. Find ways to indicate your intent to other survivors. Approach with caution. Use signals, or get close enough to use your human voice to appeal to them and see what happens. Is it safe and guaranteed? No, but neither is side chat as your asinine "kiddie" comments keep alluding to. Nothing is certain.

Global chat communication is just out of place in this game. It is inappropriate for the same reason showing loot spawns on the map would be inappropriate. It makes accomplishing a critical goal in the game too easy and doesn't challenge survivors to find ways to solve interesting problems that would present themselves in a post-apocalyptic scenario.

Up until now we've had how do I eat? How do I drink? How do I stay warm? How do I defend myself? Now we have added how do I communicate with my fellow survivors? to that list of interesting questions and because rocket has taken the risk of removing global chat it's a much more interesting problem to solve than it otherwise would have been. And that's a good thing. Chat is no longer the only barrier between us and successful social interaction. It's more difficult now with depth.

And that's a good thing!

From underground classics, indie-type games to AAA titles. They all had and still have a general chat

So you're saying rocket is doing something unique and unprecedented, even among the Indie scene? Sounds pretty fucking awesome to me. Why are we complaining about it again, instead of embracing the fact that he is willing to take these kinds of risks and break molds that even the most ambitious of Indie designers haven't been willing to touch by your own admission?

It is called culture. That's the "natural" way, because people are used to it over a long period of time.

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing an Indie game should be trying to change.

At least there would be no need to listen to your utopian arguments, IF there was a choice for admins/players to enable/disable it.

Should admins be able to enable unlimited ammunition? Again, effective communication is a critical mechanic. Giving server admins the power to flip the switch undermines its importance. It's too central a part of the game to leave it to a check box on a settings menu.

And if the only thing they see upon joining, is a cold and hostile environment... without any social feedback they are more inclined to shoot, out of fear. The more people shoot, the less people will act friendly, obviously.

Is that obvious? Because I've read a lot of reports that the removal of global chat and starting weapons are vastly increasing cooperation and communication. People are lonely without side chat. So they will seek out others. Obviously. (?)

Maybe we should wait and see what the truth of the matter is instead of making a bunch of assumptions based on incomplete information?

Hence why it has been around for ages. Ignoring all of the benefits does not work.

We shall see. I for one am glad rocket is more of a risk-taker than you. DayZ will be more interesting because he's not so willing to bow to tradition because "that's the way it goes and no other ways shall be accepted."

[zorg_dk 30]

I guess the solution, as mentioned by others, would be to have server with, and servers without side chat. Just like some have 3rd person and cross-hair.

[osram 0]

Wow ZedsDeadBaby. Issues? Mad?

Incapable of responding/discussing in a civilized manner?

Nowhere did I state that I do not value rockets innovative approach and his amazing mod. Nowhere did I state that I like the boring series of copypaste, uninventive and entirely profit-oriented gameplay presented to us most of the time. Don't get touchy... no need for prejudice, assumptions or insults.

When I refer to game design I am referring to the fact, that it can be very counter-productive or problematic to restrict/influence a player's experience artificially. For example: If I feel too much of being forced by the dev to do "this quest" and "do that", "do what i want or designed you to do..." I quickly start disliking stuff. And I suppose it is the same for most older players.

I don't see where the problem is if you let players/admins choose themselves if they want global or not. Let people decide for themselves, instead of forcing stuff upon them. Be it on an individual scale, or even Server scale.

Btw. I don't give a damn where you come from. You don't know anything about me, so keep all those assumptions to yourself. I value people by how they act and what they say, and if they show a minimum of respect and manners. I don't value people for their education, if they are academic or not... and whatnot. How people act and behave is the key point, clothes... papers... everything else is just superficial.

I judge people by their of being towards others.. which is clearly being an ass towards others, in your case. If you didn't have a decent chat in the last 360 hours of gameplay, maybe you are the problem? From what I have seen your not that great in communicating with others.

If I hurt your feelings in any way, I apologize. Although I wouldn't know how that might be possible. Time for you to get less emotional, and respect people with a different opinion.

Your point of new paradigms and seeing what happens from a gameplay point of you, or people who want to try it out, sounds interesting. I don't just DISMISS the direct chat. I am an open-minded person. I love new and innovative games which let the player experience their own, dynamic non-artificial stories and adventures.

From what I have seen up to now I just prefer having a chat, to not having a chat. Got a problem with that? Then get over it, and stop being touchy. Also: It's not that "HARSH" and "BRUTAL" as you describe it imho. Ultima Online, Nethack, Tomenet... Anyone? That's what I call some brutal and harsh PVE/PVP games.

I like the challenging aspects of this game. Be it PVE or PVP. Once again a prejudice from your side, that this would not be the case. Asking people with a different opinion to get out of the forum or shut the fuck up can only stem from a very narrow mind. You are the only close-minded party in this discussion.

I do not want to know how you play DayZ or what kind of games you developed. I really don't. ;)

Don't get too emotional, mate. Tone down a bit... Concentrate on communicating in a respectful manner... then try out the chat.

You might even like it.

[daish 11]

I guess the solution' date=' as mentioned by others, would be to have server with, and servers without side chat. Just like some have 3rd person and cross-hair.

[/quote']

Choice = good

forced into something because of a minority = bad

[vanilladragon 1]

I guess the solution' date=' as mentioned by others, would be to have server with, and servers without side chat. Just like some have 3rd person and cross-hair.

[/quote']

Choice = good

forced into something because of a minority = bad

BUT THE REALISM HGHGHGHGHGHGHGH YOU CAREBEAR NOOB GHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH GO BACK TO COD GHGHGHGHHGGHGH

[bryantjudoman 3]

i enjoy the immersion when the side chat is disabled. However that is because I NOW know how to play the game. When I first started out the side chat was instrumental in giving me the very basics of the game. I did not know how to bring up the control panel even. The tutorials were useless. So for al the new people I feel your pain. I would like to see a side chat with a limited distance lets say 1000m.

[mrperson666 0]

Side chat was nice, quite social, talking about the game, helping people either in game or with game mechanics of the "How do I...?" variety. On occasion it could be an irritant, but mostly it was ok. Less annoying than all the log-in log-out spam.

I think a better option would be to allow players who don't like it to turn it off. But maybe have side turn up in direct chat if the talker is close, so that you don't miss vital "friendly?" questions.

[Sir Laggingalot 0]

I agree that a global chat is a good thing (and should be called Global instead of Side Chat).

The learning curve on this game is already very high' date=' this becomes frustrating for new players. If a new player can't figure something basic out (because lets face it the in game tutorials are junk) then they will not continue to play.

For instance when I first started to play I had questions that I couldnt figure out on my own so I tried asking in chat. However I didn't know which chat was the right one to talk in. So I would end up talking in Direct Communication and get no response because no one was around me. Switching channels took a while to figure out that Side Chat was the best option, because very often even when using side chat no one would answer simply because so many people playing don't want to interact with or help a new player. Its like they are afraid of this newbie suddenly going "Oh my god I know how to switch fireing modes on my gun" and then they magically are able to kill everyone.

Adding radios will NOT help the problem. In fact it will further complicate it. Because now a new player not only has to contend with not having a way of getting simple advice, but they also have to figure out that they need to find a radio in the first place and then figure out how to use it once they get it.

Honestly radios should not work as a "talk to the world" type item anyway. It should instead be a "talk directly to this specific person, who also has a radio, without anyone else hearing it" type of item.

So in conclusion: Global chat helps new players learn and enjoy a game. Without it fewer new players are likely to stick with the game (I said fewer, not that no one would. It is a quantitative difference) because of frustration. More new players is a good thing, fewer new players is a bad thing.

[/quote']

radios should have a number of frequencies that people could tune to when they want to privately talk to another person, but it would be nice if others could eavesdrop by tuning to that frequency

[Wootausbruch 0]

Without the side channel everyone is even more agressive and its almost impossible to form teams with someone you dont through other games/real life/etc.

DayZ now is almost a singleplayer game

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Wow ZedsDeadBaby. Issues? Mad?

Incapable of responding/discussing in a civilized manner?

Uhh' date=' what? Can you quote the uncivilized parts of my post? I made no personal attacks and the obscenity is pretty much under control. If you want to start bitching about things I didn't do, though, I will gladly get uncivilized quickly. Maybe instead we could just stay on topic?

Nowhere did I state that I do not value rockets innovative approach and his amazing mod. Nowhere did I state that I like the boring series of copypaste, uninventive and entirely profit-oriented gameplay presented to us most of the time. Don't get touchy... no need for prejudice, assumptions or insults.

I made no assumptions. You have stated countless times in this thread that the choice to remove side chat is "bad game design" and the "wrong direction" for the mod and indefensible. So, yeah, in this case you do seem to place little value on rocket's innovation. Have I misread you? You really seem to be passing pretty definitive judgement on this particular feature decision - even though you, like all of us, have limited experience with it in the game.

When I refer to game design I am referring to the fact, that it can be very counter-productive or problematic to restrict/influence a player's experience artificially. For example: If I feel too much of being forced by the dev to do "this quest" and "do that", "do what i want or designed you to do..." I quickly start disliking stuff. And I suppose it is the same for most older players.

You're comparing the removal of side chat to a scripted quest system? I want to respond to that I just don't know how. I mean... what?

Anyway, this is such a hypocritical argument it's hilarious. Side chat is the thing artificially influencing people's play. Like if I see someone say "Who is shooting in Berezino" and that's where I'm heading, I might decide to go somewhere else and avoid the action. With side chat removed, I have no idea what I'm getting into. Chat is the artificial feature here, not it's removal.

I don't see where the problem is if you let players/admins choose themselves if they want global or not.

Okay except I just explained what the problem is. If you're going to reply to me can you please respond to the things I say and the ideas I put forth instead of just making a series of unrelated declarative statements of your own that seem to indicate you haven't read my post at all?

To restate, the problem with leaving it up to server admins is it's more than just a preference - it is a critical feature of the game and part of the challenge to find ways to communicate with survivors. Just like finding food, loot, water, etc. communication is key to the game experience. Server admins can't set "free food" or "free water" or "unlimited ammunition" settings so they shouldn't have an "everyone gets telepathy" button either. It's too important a feature to leave to server admin preference.

So, please, if you want to respond now, respond to that. Try and formulate a counter-argument or something.

Btw. I don't give a damn where you come from. You don't know anything about me, so keep all those assumptions to yourself. I value people by how they act and what they say, and if they show a minimum of respect and manners. I don't value people for their education, if they are academic or not... and whatnot. How people act and behave is the key point, clothes... papers... everything else is just superficial.

Okay, thanks. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about but this all sounds very noble and respectable so virtual handshake my friend. I don't know. Should we hug or something?

I judge people by their of being towards others.. which is clearly being an ass towards others, in your case. If you didn't have a decent chat in the last 360 hours of gameplay, maybe you are the problem? From what I have seen your not that great in communicating with others.

I have to ask again, what parts of my previous post upset you the most? You seem to be getting angry because I'm asking you to back up your empty statements with substance. That's not a personal attack or insult. I'm just asking you to conduct a debate in the manner that debates are meant to be conducted. If you're going to make a declarative statement, support it. That's not asking too much and it's no reason to get all riled up and act like I insulted your mother or something dude.

From what I have seen up to now I just prefer having a chat, to not having a chat. Got a problem with that?

Yes, I do. Namely the fact that you haven't had nearly enough experience with no chat to make that determination yet. You made up your mind probably before you even tried a server that didn't have chat.

I also have a problem with the fact that your solution is "bring back chat" instead of proposing alternative, in-game solutions like two-way radios, or broadcast towers, or signal devices or big signs with spray paint or any number of interesting mechanics that might come out of the debate that players have over what to do about no side chat. "Just give it back!!" is the easy way out. It is unoriginal and gets us nowhere interesting. Just back to chat trolls and cherno noobs spamming me all night and day and giving me information about their location and the goings-on on the server that my survivor should not have.

Asking people with a different opinion to get out of the forum or shut the fuck up can only stem from a very narrow mind. You are the only close-minded party in this discussion.

I said neither of those things. What the fuck are you on about dude? It's a pretty bad sign when you finish your post with a dramatic rebuttal to words I never fucking said. Seriously? If you wanted me to get pissed off, making shit up and didn't say and then bitching about it is a good way to turn the conversation in a bad direction. Respond to what I fucking said. Don't just put a bunch of nasty words in my mouth in an attempt to pave the high road for yourself.

I do not want to know how you play DayZ or what kind of games you developed. I really don't.

Okay? I didnt't fucking offer to tell you about either of those things. I really didn't.

Don't get too emotional, mate. Tone down a bit... Concentrate on communicating in a respectful manner... then try out the chat.

You might even like it.

Go fuck yourself, twatsock.

[mail@borisk.biz 28]

Without the side channel everyone is even more agressive and its almost impossible to form teams with someone you dont through other games/real life/etc.

DayZ now is almost a singleplayer game

yes, thats right.

[osram 0]

Here we go ZDB.

"Wait, what? Okay? Then shut the fuck up about it and go play?"

and "Go fuck yourself, twatsock."

... Just proves my point. If you are intellectually incapable of associating typical, artificial gameplay restrictions like having to do a quest to progress... to being forced to not having a global chat, then no matter what I write will help you to understand. Kind of sad, stemming from a "industry professional". What the fuck were you doing there? Cleaning the floor?

Either you dont want to understand, or you really are too stupid... or just trolling. Either way I am not going to continue discussing with an arrogant, imbecile troll.

I made my points and even elaborated for dimwits like you to understand, what you need to learn is being civilized and getting over it. Even if opinions differ between individuals. Grow up and get some social skills.

Enjoy making a fool of yourself on the forums, and showing people what kind of attitude most people do not want anywhere near them, be it the forum or ingame. You have proven that you are tough guy and excel at insulting others now, big boy. Move along...

You clown.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Either way I am not going to continue discussing

Too right! How could you continue something you never started? I made a bunch of salient points about how this change could positively impact the game and encouraged you to keep an open mind and try it out and think of other mechanics - I even suggested some of my own.

Meanwhile you said "other games have chat so we must," proceeded to ignore every point I made, then slapped a half ton of butthurt on top about my "attitude" ostensibly to distract from the fact that your posts were otherwise entirely devoid of substance.

No actual discussion ever took place.

[fackstah 31]

BECUASE THE GROWTH A COMMUNITY DEPENDS ON A IN GAME CHAT BOX ?

am i the only one that see's how ridiculous this statement is ?

a big part of growth for a Community depends on Communication and shareing information and people getting to know eachother making friends to play with

you dont seem to understand much about online mutliplayer games

ye i dont know anything about multiplayer games i only worked at acclaim and hosted servers for over 28 thousand players google me :P

[osram 0]

Lol. You are the guy who started getting touchy, because you believe your supposed professional background gives your opinion more value. How would you know if I'm not a dev and have game-design experience? It wouldn't even matter. What matters is quality of the current discussion. But I don't go about judging about other people, or presuming things about the cause of their statement without any indication. Plus I don't go brag about anything "superficial" and irrelevant.

Most probably my statement about "no clue + game design" really got you racing at the beginning and we got on on the wrong foot... I also stated that rockets innovative "no-global" experiment is interesting, and I'm open minded in general.

You then went on accusing me of having no experience of servers without global chat or being narrow-minded towards game-design. Which in fact is not true. How else could I say that I, personally, prefer chat over no-chat?

Your main problem is, not tolerating other opinions... even if they are presented to you in a coherent manner. You do not want to understand. You are the one ignoring my points. Plus getting touchy and starting irrelevant insults. A typical, simple.. troll tactic. Has nothing to do with "discussion" at all. Your social and discussion skills seem to be on pre-teen level, sadly you might even think you are great at it.

In fact I presented my prefered solution: Give admins/players a choice. The reason I supposedly "ignored" your points about radios etc. I think they are unnecessarily complicated and counter-intuitive. They do the same thing as global or what-not chat in form of a usable 3d-model and frequencies? All of that stuff is already present in text/voice chat. That's why I don't care much about it. But who knows.. maybe they will be implemented.. and are fucking amazing. Who knows?... Oh wait no. Theres already the proven solutions of text chat, and Teamspeak.

I prefer function over form. Gameplay over graphics. KISS. Keep it stupid and simple.

And once again. That's just my opinion. It's rocket's baby. His decision to make. Not mine, not yours. Who knows what's better from an "empiric" point of view. We don't have the data. If it is even measurable statistically.

I would prefer having player/admin choice when it comes to global chat nevertheless.

But hey. I know whats coming next, some irrelevant crap or insults about how I ignore points or do not discuss. Just because you are incapable of tolerating other opinions.

You are distracting from substance with insults. Whereas manners and polite communication are mandatory for everyone participating in a discussion. I'm not telling you about it to distract from anything. I am telling you because you do not care about manners and a healthy discussion.

Therefore there is no other way than to remind you of discussing in a civil manner.

No hard feelings & Have a nice day.

[Redshift 58]

Newbies got it hard? I feel for them' date=' but there is a time and place for learning, it's always before you hit start. I remember back in the day when I had to read a fucking 400 page manual on a flight simulator to even learn what the fuck I was doing, try that nowadays with spoonfed kiddies, raised on handouts.[/quote']

There is a time and a place for learning. I agree 100%. Where exactly is that place in DayZ? It doesnt really exist.

First off I think that probably the majority of people playing dont have a manual because they downloaded the game. Even if you did have a manual it would be worthless because video game manuals nowadays are next to worthless. And even if you happened to have an informative and helpful manual it wouldnt help with DayZ because this mod would not be covered in that manual.

There is an ingame tutorials for ARMA itself but lets be honest it's crap. It doesnt teach you everything you need to know, and what it does teach is slapdash and can be accidentally skipped if you do things wrong (which isn't unusual since you are trying to learn how to do it, so mistakes should be expected). I know because I bought ARMA for DayZ and the first thing I did was go into that tutorial go all the way through it, and then played the single player ARMA campaign for about 20 minutes to try and get familiar with it. Did this prepare me for DayZ? Not in the slightest.

Even if that ARMA tutorial was amazing and complete (which it is not), it still would not touch on half of the very important aspects of DayZ because those aspects are not part of ARMA at all. Hunger, Dehydration, Bleeding, Shock, Broken Bones, avoiding zombies, using tools, hunting animals, starting a fire to cook meat, how to loot properly without having your gear vanish, weather effects, medical supplies and what they specifically affect ect. All very important concepts of which there is no documentation on and no tutorial.

So how exactly are new players supposed to learn if they have no opportunity to ask questions, no tutorial, and no documentation?

When was the last time you had a cert exam and could ask other students or the supervisors the answers? DayZ is a test, to see how well you can do, to prove how good you are.

No. DayZ is a game. And the point of a game is to find enjoyment in it. It is difficult to enjoy a game if you can't even find out how the games mechanics work.

Plus your analogy is flawed. You dont walk into a classroom or certification exam cold. "Hi its the first day of class. Sit down and get ready to take your final exam over everything that you were supposed to learn but we havent given you any opportunity to learn yet". That doesnt happen.

[joikd 25]

I agree with the OP that without global chat game growth will be less and new players will have a tougher time. But, I see that as a good thing. If the goal of DayZ was to maximize growth and cater to new players, it would change from Dayz into some mainstream crap.

Like I have said before--no global chat = excellent culling effect.

[machomanugget 26]

Agree with the OP a RPG game with no player communication??

[Shag 90]

i leave as soon as i see side chat not disabled. who wants to see the verbal diahorrea people spew.

could increase the range of direct chat. i'm a little scared to run riht up to people to say friendly. 30M - 40M would be better.

[ZombieCarnage 0]

Loving no side chat, if theres side chat enabled on the server then I will leave unless there are no other local servers available. Hated all the retarded drivel spewed through the chat system as it constantly broke the immersion. Go join an irc channel if you want to talk cross continent.

Feel sorry for the newbs but the information on how to play is not that hard to find, browse the forums/youtube/google.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

So how exactly are new players supposed to learn if they have no opportunity to ask questions' date=' no tutorial, and no documentation?[/quote']

Spawn. Attempt to survive. Fail and die. Carefully consider the source of your failure and avoid that activity or decision next time. Repeat this process until sufficient knowledge has been accrued. Not an insurmountable task by any means. Nearly all roguelike games function on precisely this premise - throw the player in blind and let them figure out the game through repeated deaths.

No. DayZ is a game. And the point of a game is to find enjoyment in it.

The point of a game is whatever the designer says it is. If you want non-stop enjoyment, DayZ is not the game for you. rocket has already stated that emotions other than "fun" will play a large part in your DayZ experience including frustration, fear, lonelieness, sadness, anger, boredom, etc. It's not all going to be peaches and lolipops I'm afraid. He's trying something new. If you're uncomfortable with that I suggest you get off the train now before it leaves the station.

It is difficult to enjoy a game if you can't even find out how the games mechanics work.

Plus your analogy is flawed. You dont walk into a classroom or certification exam cold.

You do if it's the apocalypse and all the computers don't work anymore so you can't look anything up online and all the qualified instructors have been eaten alive or infected.

It's trial by fire. Sink or swim. It's DayZ. It's awesome.

Anyway, the whole discussion is moot. Any question you have about the mechanics can be answered with a google search, youtube video or forum post. Watching side chat get spammed all day with "how to fix a broken leg please?" is not a good way to disseminate information about the game mechanics to players. There are far more efficient ways of doing that.