Here is a crazy idea, what if there was no weapon attachments?

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Iron sight all the way, i mean lets be realistic here, there is all kinds of fancy sights out there but they are quite fragile compared to the gun itself. The gun would most likely outlive any fancy optics and targeting systems you might want to bolt on it.

 

 

Do you feel that your play experience would be diminished by only having the original ironsight?

 

 

Would it make each weapon a more unique package because the quality of the sight would now be a factor to take in account on top of it's purely ballistic performances?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Lady Kyrah

[TacticalN29 89]

Iron sight all the way, i mean lets be realistic here, there is all kinds of fancy sights out there but they are quite fragile compared to the gun itself. The gun would most likely outlive any fancy optics and targeting systems you might want to bolt on it.

Do you feel that your play experience would be diminished by only having the original ironsight?

Would it make each weapon a more unique package because the quality of the sight would now be a factor to take in account on top of it's purely ballistic performances?

Actually as far as I know most optics are quite resilient. I don't think they would be charging $1,000 for a EoTech Holographic sight if it was just going to break.

[PK Richie 507]

Attachments and upgrades are needed to keep people intrested, you find a scoped weapon and people will camp fresh spawns with it, if you had to explore to find ways to improve your weapon then you keep looking and looting.

[HazZarD87 166]

They're not fragile... Don't know where people keep getting the idea that people being infected by the Z-virus also magically breaks or spirits away all sorts of goods and equipment.

 

The Elcan optical sight I had on my service C7A1 has been functioning just fine since it was put into service in 1997. The same goes for other sights used on military weapons. You'd think any army would want a sight that will break time and again under the tough circumstances of military operations? Ofcourse not, they have to have a certain level of resilience called mil-spec.

 

In the same line of thinking most people argue against military weapons in the game at all. But since chernarus has just had it's civil war and a peacekeeping force in the country, the presence of such weapons is obvious. When most of the soldiers fall to the infection those weapons don't magically dissappear. Getting to them in an army base where there is a battalion of zombiefied soldiers.. now that oughta be the trick.

Edited July 25, 2013 by HazZarD87

[TacticalN29 89]

I feel like there's a major balance that needs to be had between no military weapons, and military weapons everywhere. But back to the post. I personally don't know if I've ever heard of a Police officer or Soldier or Marine, etc. saying that their sight broke. I mean sure everything can break, but I would think you would have to deliberately bash the optic against a wall or something.

[King of kong 1117]

My friend has an M4A1 with Eotech sight which was bought for 80 euro, it has been used again and again and still work.

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

I'm a fan of iron sights and I wonder how many optical sights survived "the event". (there's not much else left, why so many weapons?)

 

Personally, I would like to see optics as being quite rare finds, but that's just *my* vision of the game. TBH I'd want all weapons and ammo to be rare.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[taco241 393]

Optics can be fragile and can go out of whack fairly easily if not mounted properly. 

This usually applies to civilian, hunting type rifles. Shotguns shooting a lot of slugs or heavy loads can beat up a cheap scope too.

 

Military guns are generally (let's pretend) well mounted with good rings and rails. It would take a heavy hit to knock them out of zero.

 

I'm all for survivors needing to do some windage/elevation adjustments on a found scope though.

It would mean you have to waste a few shots, and possibly give your position away by taking some shots at a target, or your gun might be randomly off a bit.

[Mos1ey 6301]

In the same line of thinking most people argue against military weapons in the game at all. But since chernarus has just had it's civil war and a peacekeeping force in the country, the presence of such weapons is obvious. When most of the soldiers fall to the infection those weapons don't magically dissappear. Getting to them in an army base where there is a battalion of zombiefied soldiers.. now that oughta be the trick.

 

 

DayZ is completely seperate from ARMA, we don't currently know anything other than the geography of Chernarus in the DayZ universe.

[fluxley 2228]

I'm all for survivors needing to do some windage/elevation adjustments on a found scope though.

It would mean you have to waste a few shots, and possibly give your position away by taking some shots at a target, or your gun might be randomly off a bit.

 

Yup, would love this to be in game, would be nice to have to check them once in a while too.

 

@OP, you pretty much answer your own question, having things like scopes and other attachments not only gives players an extra something to aim for but also allows for some degree of personalisation to equipment making players feel their characters are more unique.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Fluxley

[enforcer1975 1111]

In the same line of thinking most people argue against military weapons in the game at all. But since chernarus has just had it's civil war and a peacekeeping force in the country, the presence of such weapons is obvious. When most of the soldiers fall to the infection those weapons don't magically dissappear. Getting to them in an army base where there is a battalion of zombiefied soldiers.. now that oughta be the trick.

 

Yeah but think about it...99% of worlds "freedom fighters" use AKs or a similar make. The US forces where there. Did the "freedom fighters" suddenly spam M16, M4, M107, SMAWs, Javelins etc.? No, they are still using the weapons they used for decades because the US didn't leave creates full of western weapons and ammo in the combat zones. So why should there be an abundance of western weapons in Chernarus where the number of US forces was a fraction of what the Chernarus und Russian forces who used soviet equipment ( taking the M113 and other exceptions aside )? It's not the amount of military weapons at all that annoys most players, it's the people who expect the wrong kind of weapons in the country. Nothing against a 5% amount of western weapons but not as it is/has been where every team you met had a M4 or a DMR because they are 1337.

[TacticalN29 89]

"The Chernarus of DayZ is a fictitious creation that’s "generic country with significant Russian influence in its past" that more recently has had a great influence from the West. Its not unlike Czech Republic in that regard and so when myself and Ivan Buchta (our ambassador to Chernarus) created the wish lists of weapons, gear, and player clothing, it was done with that in mind. 

I even went so far as to gather gun ownership statistics in CR, which, incidentally, has some of the most accommodating gun laws for civilian ownership in Europe.  What I found was that CR is ranked in the top third of gun owners per capita.  There's approximately 300k registered gun owners who own ~700k firearms between them.  This doesn't include those with illegal guns and you can bet there are a fair number of those too.  This contained the greatest variety and can include anything from AR15s to civilianized AKs (such as Vepr), Glocks, Desert Eagles...pretty much anything you can think of can be found in the country.  Next is the police - there's ~42k police officers in the CR and they seem to use both western and eastern weapons. I've found pics of SWAT-style units in Prague with MP5k and MP5s, Glocks, Benelli shotguns, and an assortment of CZ pistols, SMGs, and rifles (of course).  Last comes military and there's ~23k soldiers. These guys use anything from your assorted CZ arms like the police, as well as M4 variants, M60s, MP5SDs, SVDs, OP96s, some tricked out Sako rifles, etc... and I think this type of model (although we can embellish the selection of specific things  with specific ‘types of things’) is a good one to follow.

So I'm looking at these stats and I read comments on the forum and I wonder "do people think DayZ is set during the Cold War era". Then I would understand why most guns need to be Eastern-ish, historic peculiarities.  But if DayZ is set in the present day (or slight future), then it’s totally appropriate to have an eclectic mixture of things.

There will be some older, historic firearms from the East, like the Mosin, and some newer ones from the West, like a customizable M4. If I recall, the weapon list is ~50% "eastern stuff" so its not exactly a Russian gun enthusiasts wet dream but I hope that which was chosen will appeal to a broad range of people." 

 

This was posted in another thread by this guy ---> http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/user/148046-scubaman3d/

 

So just because the Czech Republic used to be a satellite country of the Soviet Union doesn't mean it can't use "western weapons". Anyway though Glock is Austrian. H&K (the makers of the MP5) are German. Beretta is based in Italy I believe. Not all guns other than Russian guns are made in America.

Edited July 25, 2013 by TacticalN29

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

 

So just because the Czech Republic used to be a satellite country of the Soviet Union doesn't mean it can't use "western weapons". Anyway though Glock is Austrian. H&K (the makers of the MP5) are German. Beretta is based in Italy I believe. Not all guns other than Russian guns are made in America.

It's not about where anything is made. It's simply an issue of where these weapons would be in service or otherwise commonly found.

That post sums it up nicely, but making Chernarus Eastern-Bloc means even with "an eclectic mixture of things", US military-issue gear shouldn't be standard fare.

 

I'm fully supportive of having variety in the objects/items/weapons in game, but PROPORTION is key.

 

We wouldn't want every car to be a Skoda. But having everyone drive a Chrysler would be equally ridiculous.

 

 

@ OP.

It wouldn't be a deal-breaker, but it would be a shame to not allow for a little customisation.

That said; unless there's a decent variety of mods, optics and attachments, there's still quite a cap on how "unique" any weapon could ever be.

[-Gews- 7443]

No optics? No way!

 

DayZ doesn't take place in the early 1900s, it takes place now. People will use optics on weapons if possible, and if they don't have optics they will put them on.

 

You can find many pictures and even videos of people fighting with Mosins, SKS rifles, old Mauser rifles, hunting rifles, etc, to which they have affixed random hunting or military optical sights.

 

It doesn't make sense that in Chernarus they've been magically sheltered from superior sights.

 

 

Man fighting with M1944 Mosin with attached military optic, BBC World News

[TacticalN29 89]

It's not about where anything is made. It's simply an issue of where these weapons would be in service or otherwise commonly found.

That post sums it up nicely, but making Chernarus Eastern-Bloc means even with "an eclectic mixture of things", US military-issue gear shouldn't be standard fare.

 

I'm fully supportive of having variety in the objects/items/weapons in game, but PROPORTION is key.

 

We wouldn't want every car to be a Skoda. But having everyone drive a Chrysler would be equally ridiculous.

 

 

@ OP.

It wouldn't be a deal-breaker, but it would be a shame to not allow for a little customisation.

That said; unless there's a decent variety of mods, optics and attachments, there's still quite a cap on how "unique" any weapon could ever be.

Yes, but people don't seem to understand that countries other than the U.S. use M4's, M16's or other "modern" "Western" weapons. It's not even that modern as the M16 has been in use by the U.S. Military since Vietnam.

 

No optics? No way!

 

DayZ doesn't take place in the early 1900s, it takes place now. People will use optics on weapons if possible, and if they don't have optics they will put them on.

 

You can find many pictures and even videos of people fighting with Mosins, SKS rifles, old Mauser rifles, hunting rifles, etc, to which they have affixed random hunting or military optical sights.

 

It doesn't make sense that in Chernarus they've been magically sheltered from superior sights.

 

 

Man fighting with M1944 Mosin with attached military optic, BBC World News

That kind of looks like this optic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M145_Machine_Gun_Optic#M145_Machine_Gun_Optic

 

But it's hard to tell with that quality.

Edited July 25, 2013 by TacticalN29

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Yes, but people don't seem to understand that countries other than the U.S. use M4's, M16's or other "modern" "Western" weapons. It's not even that modern as the M16 has been in use by the U.S. Military since Vietnam.

Equally, people who are dead-set on getting AR-variants and other "Western" gear don't seem to understand that there are better and more common (in Europe) weapons and items available in the world, which would be more suitable for the Chernarus setting.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Is it not accurate that Rocket made a statement to the effect that in the standalone, gear rarity can be governed across all official servers out of a shared pool? Therefore, only a certain number of holo sights will exist; only a certain number of acog sights will exist; only a certain number of military weapons will be available. Isn't that an authentic solution to a real world problem with the availability of gear?

[-Gews- 7443]

Is it not accurate that Rocket made a statement to the effect that in the standalone, gear rarity can be governed across all official servers out of a shared pool? Therefore, only a certain number of holo sights will exist; only a certain number of acog sights will exist; only a certain number of military weapons will be available. Isn't that an authentic solution to a real world problem with the availability of gear?

 

Yes, however the development time spent on these ultra rare weapons could also be spent making more types and variants of common weapons... they could make an AS50 with a 1/250000 spawn chance or an SKS with a 1/150 spawn chance... which would be of more value to the game?

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

So.. does it all boil down to individuality? (again)

[TacticalN29 89]

Equally, people who are dead-set on getting AR-variants and other "Western" gear don't seem to understand that there are better and more common (in Europe) weapons and items available in the world, which would be more suitable for the Chernarus setting.

I'm not dead set on it, but I would definitely like it and it would be, in my opinion, more realistic. However there definitely needs to be a variety. I think that fireamrs and ammunition across the board (doesn't matter what type) should be quite a bit more rare.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Yes, however the development time spent on these ultra rare weapons could also be spent making more types and variants of common weapons... they could make an AS50 with a 1/250000 spawn chance or an SKS with a 1/150 spawn chance... which would be of more value to the game?

 

Why can't we have both? That's a bit of a false dilemma. Once they develop a weapon, it's already developed. There's no reason they can't add more variety later.

 

Besides, I think you might have missed my point. My point is that the cross server rarity of weapon attachments makes them entirely authentic to the game world. Some elite, or just plain lucky, players will have these items, while most will have basic, common gear. The longer you survive, the more rare gear you have a chance of finding. Therefore survival and cunning are duly rewarded, but at a greater value to your own life. If people see you with a gun that has an acog scope, they might be tempted to kill you for it. High risk - high reward. High rewards, even higher risks. It is the natural order of things.

 

 

So.. does it all boil down to individuality? (again)

 

Yes and no. I'm making an argument for authenticity, as well as individual choice and weapon customization, which is already implemented - so let's be realistic - It's not going to be "un-implemented" before anyone even gets to try it. We have to give new features a chance. Not doing so only inhibits the growth of this wonderfully entertaining game.

Edited July 25, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Serious Stan 202]

Well, dayz is suppose to happen right after to outbreak. so i guess most the scopes would be in excellent condition.

If its more like dayz 2017 then yes, they should be blurry and used.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

So.. does it all boil down to individuality? (again)

Of course.

The fact is, if you don't want to add optics/grips etc. you can still choose not to.

Choice is the main thing.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be running around looking to fill every rail with an attachment, but I like the idea of swapping bits and bobs to suit myself.

Eg. If I happen across an AR with an already attached Holo-sight, I'd probably take it off. (I just don't like them)

Developing features to allow folks to make these kinds of decisions based purely on their preferences (and luck in scavenging ;)) is a smart move IMO.

[TacticalN29 89]

Why can't we have both? That's a bit of a false dilemma. Once they develop a weapon, it's already developed. There's no reason they can't add more variety later.

 

Besides, I think you might have missed my point. My point is that the cross server rarity of weapon attachments makes them entirely authentic to the game world. Some elite, or just plain lucky, players will have these items, while most will have basic, common gear. The longer you survive, the more rare gear you have a chance of finding. Therefore survival and cunning are duly rewarded, but at a greater value to your own life. If people see you with a gun that has an acog scope, they might be tempted to kill you for it. High risk - high reward. High rewards, even higher risks. It is the natural order of things.

Basically what it is, is that if the devs want there to be only one M107 on every server in the hive there will only be one. That way they can regulate the super high powered weapons.

[-Gews- 7443]

Why can't we have both? That's a bit of a false dilemma. Once they develop a weapon, it's already developed. There's no reason they can't add more variety later.

I wouldn't say scrap it if they'd already done it. It just seems like something that would be very low priority.

Theoretically you could find anything in the world. It's... the world. However I don't think it's worth modelling extremely obscure firearms / items when that time could be put to use in better ways. Some weapons need to be more rare, but I don't think we need to have something that's so rare only one player will ever see it at a time.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Gews