Why do peoples actions need to dictate their appearance?

[GBTP 114]

I don't agree with everyone's seemingly desperate need to make bandits identifiable. "Make them covered in blood if they PK!" "Bandits should get spiky armor and look evil!" "Why don't their eyes glow and shoot laser beams of griefing if they have ever killed another player" or "why can't the developers write the programming for DayZ to read every players mind magically so it will pop up on your screen if the person in front of you is going to be friendly or not!"

 

I've never been a bandit, but if I was I wouldn't be happy with the forced skin change, and as a hero I don't want to be able if the the person I'm coming up on is good or bad.

 

There shouldn't be any way to tell...

 

If you disagree with me I am trying to understand your viewpoint...

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I actually agree.  I've never like the bandit/hero system it's just not elegant enough.

 

I do like the idea of having blood on your clothes/hands if you've recently looted a dead body though.  It's not an indicator of good or bad but in some situations could help you figure out someones intentions.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Fraggle

[wild_man 4442]

is obvious true thing :beans:

[Rekli 995]

I actually agree.  I've never like the bandit/hero system it's just not elegant enough.

 

I do like the idea of having blood on your clothes/hands if you've recently looted a dead body though.  It's not an indicator of good or bad but in some situations could help you figure out someones intentions.

the fuck you doing with your emblem thingeh

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

the fuck you doing with your emblem thingeh

I was having an identity crisis.

[SoWeMeetAgain 100]

The thing is this: In real life bandits don't get a new life once dead. In real life people don't all look the exact same. So in real life the bandits would get identifiable over time, there would be things like "wanted" posters and even if not you can judge people a LOT by how they look at other people/at things, how they talk, what they say, IN REAL LIFE. Not in a game.

To make up for all that some other mechanic of identifying bad persons was added, even if not "elegant".

[TheLastEmp 295]

Everyone looks the same in a Ghillie suit :) 

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

Everyone looks the same in a Ghillie suit :)

 

Do they.....

 

A face can be deceptive :)

 

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

The thing is this: In real life bandits don't get a new life once dead. In real life people don't all look the exact same. So in real life the bandits would get identifiable over time, there would be things like "wanted" posters and even if not you can judge people a LOT by how they look at other people/at things, how they talk, what they say, IN REAL LIFE. Not in a game.

To make up for all that some other mechanic of identifying bad persons was added, even if not "elegant".

I agree, and for the mod they have VERY limited options so giving a player a new skin was pretty much the only option they had.  For the SA though they aren't restricted like that so hopefully we will see something more elegant.  Rocket has talked about player faces maybe changing over time as well as other ideas.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

the problem is this is a game, and if you dont make rules to give people results of their actions, then the douchbag factor becoems the norm..

 

if there is no repercussions from being a bandit, then trust me very soon ALL inter personal encounters end, it turns into a huge KoS furball..

 

its happened before when the bandit skin was removed.. no one trusts no one, every sighting is an exchange of bullets.

 

after that dayz tumbles into obsecurity..

 

dayz absoluetly needs a bandit skin, or someway to set people apart..

 

there is a reason why basicly every game outside of pure FPS games have rules.. they have to because of the internet douchebag crowd.

[beastoverlord 574]

I feel like to some extend the appearance of someone does need to follow their actions. In real life, we all get those strange vibes when we are around creepy people. This is due to a person's body language, the tones of their voice, if they look you in the eyes, etc. None of these are able to show up in-game, even the VOIP messes up people's voices enough so you can't pay attention to the tone. I know everyone wants it to be realistic, but a video game can't currently carry over all of those things that would tell you if they are a bandit or not. An artificial way needs to be constructed such as bandit clothing so that people can figure out a players intentions before they get killed.

[Recalibar 28]

I actually agree.  I've never like the bandit/hero system it's just not elegant enough.

 

I do like the idea of having blood on your clothes/hands if you've recently looted a dead body though.  It's not an indicator of good or bad but in some situations could help you figure out someones intentions.

 

Killing zombies with melee might logically leave such stains as well.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Killing zombies with melee might logically leave such stains as well.

Yup.  Many different aproaches are being looked at, nothing has been decided yet.  I'm just glad I'm not the one trying to design the new system.

[Recalibar 28]

Yup.  Many different aproaches are being looked at, nothing has been decided yet.  I'm just glad I'm not the one trying to design the new system.

 

Honestly, the zombie blood could look different. And you could also throw in some fun stuff like increased chance of infections and Etc.

[Sixteen18 15]

I never understood the logic behind the bandit skin. If the big aspect of Dayz is deciding who to trust, why should some people be forced into an automatically hostile appearance? Bandits, especially those that are solo, would want to avoid looking hostile and try to fit in with the general group as much as possible to avoid being hunted down. This whole skin change concept needs to be removed imo, what they need to work on is giving better reasons for people to risk trusting strangers. 

[fluxley 2228]

It will be interesting to see if the combination of the standalone having no humanity system and a large selection of clothing will lead to a natural way of identifying someones play style.

 

Will bandits tend to go for clothing that makes them look badass?

 

Maybe the friendly players will consider practicality over looks.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

It is odd though that all the "gangsta"'s Ive met have always, looked the part.

 

Perhaps people do represent their inner selves?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[fluxley 2228]

 

Perhaps people do represent their inner selves?

 

 

I really think there is some truth in that, I've been in enough rough pubs to know that it doesn't take long to suss out who's friendly, who'd rather be left alone and who's pint you sure as hell better not spill.

 

There's always exceptions of course.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

can i be the first to ask for a carebear Tee.

 

:P

[BookBurning 7]

General interactions with a player is enough even in a virtual world to slowly let the other person decide whether or not they're hanging out with a trustworthy person; elegant or not isn't an issue, what's an issue is the fact that it reveals possible intentions with little more than a glance at the person.  You don't need to get to know the person in the slightest, you don't need to see how they behave around survivors, other loot, the loot of other survivors etc because they are automatically stamped with a skin and it makes it shallow.

 

You don't need subtlety in facial expression etc to decide whether or not to trust someone in DayZ, all you need to do is run into another person with them to see how they react; do they shoot them on site?  Make a comment about potential loot gain?  Are they constantly sticking behind you to get a weird angle to possibly kill you?  Things like these are apparent in DayZ whether or not you realize it, the reason most people don't SEE things like this is because most bandits aren't bandits at all; they're COD players who just kill everyone on site.

 

Every once in awhile though you come across an intelligent bandit who exploits trust as a weakness and for the love of God, these players shouldn't be branded with a giant tattoo that tells their possible intentions immediately.   What DayZ needs is more clothing options and no forced clothing.  

[dallas 5195]

I consider it a cross server reputation system.

 

There's a reason, why the bandit skin was initially introduced and there's a reason, why it returned after it was removed.

 

When players aren't tied to a geographical location and when it's really easy to recover from a death, like rushing back to Cherno or Elektro, the consequence of risky behavior is rewarded and there's no disadvantage to constantly seeking out conflicts. Victims and perpetrators aren't limited to a server, so switching server means a mass murderer instantly sheds his reputation. Killers don't  really care if they die either, because you can just commit suicide if you spawn at Kamenka. This means that mass murderer, who'll fairly quickly get a reputation or fairly quickly bring on their own demise, can simply respawn or relocate to another server and suffer no long term consequences for terminating another person's progress. 

 

When there's no consequence to killing or dying, there's no incentive to long term survival and then killing escalates as we've seen before and when everyone KOS, some of DayZ's magic disappear. Instead of a survival oriented game, it becomes a respawn oriented game. DayZ is great because if brings PVP and PVE players together, which creates a psychological aspect to both PVP and PVE. 

 

-As a PVP player, you're not limited to sniping, twitching or KOS, if you maintain a neutral humanity, you're also able to create more elaborate and evil betrayals.

-As a PVE player, other players also makes the fairly predictable game mechanics more challenging, because you can never fully predict another player's motivation, being friendly and trusting always comes with a risk.

 

I like humanity indicators, because so far it both promotes PVP, but also keeps it from infecting the entire player population. I love that humanity also affects self defense kills, which means that if you constantly put yourself in dangerous situations, you will be affected yourself and you'll have to accept turning into a killer or become better at avoiding conflicts. People, who earn a reputation for being indiscriminate killers(KOS) and earn a bandit skin, will also get KOS'd by friendly players and since KOS players, play solely for killing, they can't complain about taking return fire.

 

I actually think the humanity system is a fairly advanced psychological aspect of DayZ, the mechanic might be very simple, but I think it's a major mistake to think of the humanity system as broken. I'm not saying it can't be refined, but it gives players a motivation to play as actual survivors and not just a gamers playing a game, where death is just a minor inconvenience.

 

As of now, you can easily ocver up your bandit skin with ghillie suits and camo clothing and a hero skin is never something an experienced play is blindly going to trust either.

 

 

Hello there

 

It is odd though that all the "gangsta"'s Ive met have always, looked the part.

 

Perhaps people do represent their inner selves?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

People who force their will upon others also dress or use tattoos to intimidate. It's not only about the violence, sometimes the intimidation is enough.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Dallas

[muse9191 2]

There's always exceptions of course.

Ted Bundy comes to mind

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Its true one cannot judge a book by its cover, but it can often give indicators.

 

I suppose the Bandit skin reflects this as we cant see any other "tells" with the current avatars/resolution body stance etc etc.

 

Yes, the bandit/hero skins are kind of sledge hammer fixes but how else could we portray these things in game.

 

Whenever I encounter a "nutter" in real life, even if they are smartly dressed there are many many little signs which signal "danger" these cannot be displayed in the game as it stands. I'd like to see a better way to reflect a persons character in game but have no idea how it could be achieved.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[beastoverlord 574]

I don't think that this problem can be solved well in the current mod. I'm just excited for the Standalone's clothing options. I'm pretty sure a person in a Ghilly, camo clothing, or kevlar vests is much more hostile than someone in a bright orange rain parka. 

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

 

I don't think that this problem can be solved well in the current mod. I'm just excited for the Standalone's clothing options. I'm pretty sure a person in a Ghilly, camo clothing, or kevlar vests is much more hostile than someone in a bright orange rain parka. 

 

In a scary zed infested world Im gonna go covert asap, also military wear is fare more durable than most civvie clothing. When the SHTF I go camo/black both in the real world *and* in game.

 

So, if you see a shuffling bush, dont shoot! it may just be me.

 

Rgds

 

LoK