SA: trying to change the kill on sight mentality, *without unfair disadvantages to that or any playstyle

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I agree, but some welcome changes could be added to affect the KOS formula. If it's possible to do so elegantly.

 

You gotta admit that "killing everyone is safer" is hm... it's a pretty low hanging fruit, i'm sure the SA can do better than that.

[-Gews- 7443]

You are already able to safely store gear when logged out.

 

Just put it in your main inventory or your backpack. <_<

[joe_mcentire 2074]

how about make ranged weapons and firearms* scarce, ammo even scarcer. rely gameplay on improvised melee weapons, traps, distraction, disguise and delusion

 

BUT then about 70% of dayz fans won't buy play the game any more....but that's my dream-game in a nutshell

Edited July 22, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[wild_man 4442]

how about make ranged weapons and firearms* scarce, ammo even scarcer. rely gameplay on improvised melee weapons, traps, distraction, disguise and delusion

 

BUT then about 70% of dayz fans won't buy play the game any more....but that's my dream-game in a nutshell

 yes!!! :beans:

 

I am happy if they take all scoping guns away, always is best for make fight face to face :D

[plexico 386]

     I don't get why anyone would want your base to disappear with you when you log out. People can simply horde tons of loot in their base, and its 100% safe when they log. You should be able to hide your base, and do stuff to make it more safe from potential looters, but it should never ever be safe. Whenever you log off with a hidden vehicle or a tent full of gear, you should always have that fear that when you log in all of it might be gone. All bases should eventually be found at one point as well, the better hidden, the longer until that day will come. 

 

It's odd that your character is 100% safe on log out, but it would be pretty dumb if you could be murdered when logged out, that's just too realistic and probably would be an unsuccessful feature. But there is a different between people and bases.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i think it is for those players who don't have the opportunity to play the game on a regular basis. so i can understand both sides somehow.

i was asking that very question some time ago:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/125449-how-to-handle-property-the-issue-when-being-offline/

Edited July 22, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Recalibar 28]

I've always hated "safe" stash systems. That's why, for the most part, when I play minecraft, I play on vanilla servers (locking chests are no fun!) Now, if you built stashes and they haven't been looted, you hid your stash well. Tents anyone? (More variation would be nice, however. A rock shaped tent?)

Edited July 22, 2013 by Recalibar

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

Yes, my post was directed at OP.

I'm not saying there should be no changes that change mentality. Every change will change mentality to some degree. What I'm saying is that there shouldn't be any changes JUST to change mentality. If you feel that items needs to have their value increased by making it harder to keep them for example, then I would agree. But taking the same update and saying "We need to do this so then people won't KoS so much" just makes me roll my eyes and repeat what I said above about no change should be geared at controlling players.

The reason I say this now is because of your title. Your suggestions may very well be useful ones, but if I had to read about how KoS mentality should be dissuaded or frowned upon, then I'm just gonna skip past it. Because I simply cannot agree with it.

 

EDIT: Even though you edited it, the fact still stands that you are actively trying to change it. Though it is more commendable that you feel that there should be no crippling 'nerfs' to the mentality.

I feel like now your just being a little pedantic because its how this community seems to act when a new concept is introduced. sure, bandits and kosers have a place in the game. but it shouldnt be gamebreaking to the extent it can be today in the dayz community.

 

i completely agree with making items harder to keep, the fact is, the suggestions i put into place tho are all in line with how dayz currently is, and dont ask for anything unrealistic. the mechanics im attemtpting to explain dont force anyone to change their playstyle or mentality at all. they arent forcing a change to anyones mentality. they are giving people bases and anyone who wants to utilise them can. bases are something that has been confirmed too. so if its a mechanic that will eventually be implemented anyway, it definetly, at the very least, needs to improved upon  A LOT from the current tent system.

 

i just want to make this clear, you are sorta saying you dont care that the amount of bandit KOSers shot through the roof when a huge amount of children got bored of cod, and that it changed dayz for ever. when did you start playing the mod? cos i can tell you, long gone are the days of making a group of random survivors, banding together from elektro to do a vybor raid, and then painting the airfield red. these days youll either get sniped instantly in elektro, some child in your group gets bored running north and starts just onloading on your group with no reguard for even themselves... your also sayin, if base building offered even the most basic of storage abilities, players would be forced to do something. No ones forcing people to play as a bandit or not, and no ones forcing them to live alone, with or without any stored supplies. if bandits and kosers dont want to take advantage of this system, thats no problem. they just dont get the added benefit of having a storage space.

 

so in summary, a base building / storage option, whether advanced or even the most basic of approaches would cause players to want to change their own playstyles to take advantage of these features, regardless of if you aim it to change the communities playstyle, or not.

 

edit: a feature already exists, and has for a long time, that forces players to group up, or not be able to sieze certain game opportunites / items.  blood bags and epi pens. so, do you disagree with the mod in this regard to? was it too much hassle having to follow a realistic idea of not being able to give yourself an adrenaline shot while your passed out? were you upset when you couldnt blood bag yourself, and wish that feature wasnt in the game, because it forces players to work together?

Edited July 23, 2013 by tomfacekillahhh

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

I agree, but some welcome changes could be added to affect the KOS formula. If it's possible to do so elegantly.

 

You gotta admit that "killing everyone is safer" is hm... it's a pretty low hanging fruit, i'm sure the SA can do better than that.

yep totes with you on this.

any possible solution needs to be more careful to not 'blobsnark' everything like the antibiotics patch did. your solution of more items actually makes a lot of sense to me, but i feel unless it were PERFECTLY balanced, it wouldnt work to cause anything but more griefing.

 

picture this. 'oh fk my fever is about to make me go into convulsions, ill have to KOS the next few people in hope they have some medical supplies. god knows i wont make it to a town', this would probably start happening with just about every disease they are intorducing. it seems like so many people went crazy with 'lets have this in the game! lets have that! lots of items!' without realising it can have the opposite effect its intended to have. players will eventually have trouble finding that one rare part from an item they are crafting, and they go loco taking anyone down to get it.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

how about make ranged weapons and firearms* scarce, ammo even scarcer. rely gameplay on improvised melee weapons, traps, distraction, disguise and delusion

 

BUT then about 70% of dayz fans won't buy play the game any more....but that's my dream-game in a nutshell

i would play this, and absolutely love it. that amount of hardcore elements would drive a lot of bored children out of the mod, meaning a more mature like minded community, more willing to team up with other pros, just for survival.

 

i like this idea because instead of you just going 'more items! like every other person and their dog has suggested!' youve suggested the opposite and it makes more sense than copying the same flawed mechanic as what occured in the great antibiotics blight of 1.7.X.X... i cant remember exactly what version it was, but it had a lot of people i know getting pretty annoyed at such a broken mechanic. hell, frankie n jack stopped making videos around the time that whole shmozzle happened.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

     I don't get why anyone would want your base to disappear with you when you log out. People can simply horde tons of loot in their base, and its 100% safe when they log. You should be able to hide your base, and do stuff to make it more safe from potential looters, but it should never ever be safe. Whenever you log off with a hidden vehicle or a tent full of gear, you should always have that fear that when you log in all of it might be gone. All bases should eventually be found at one point as well, the better hidden, the longer until that day will come. 

 

It's odd that your character is 100% safe on log out, but it would be pretty dumb if you could be murdered when logged out, that's just too realistic and probably would be an unsuccessful feature. But there is a different between people and bases.

i agree it would be dumb to have your character still vulnerable when logged out, but its no less dumb than not being able to store items anywhere apart from on your person. but why cant people store things safely in a zombie apocalypse? in a real life scenario, the only comparable downtime to logging out is when you are asleep. but when you are asleep, theres a chance you can wake up and defend your stash. currently, the mod is turning into a bit of an mmo in the way its rewarding people who have no life, and discouraging those that do from playing. what are we supposed to have a roster of 20 friends who each guard our stash in shifts? that sounds like a pain.

 

in the game world theres houses, with garages, that techincally we would be able to use, but are unable to due to game engine limitaions. the current stashes are basically underground, un enterable bases and these work A LOT better than tents. theres a lot of ways you could go about making a system more friendly/logical though even if you couldnt hide vehicles. say camo nets so if you're parked under foliage they are a hidden from sight a lot more. or even throwing old leaf matter ontop of your vehicles to camo them before logging out. but this stll doesnt change one pretty big flaw i think is present...

 

the biggest gripe i have with tents and the current system, is that they persist after death. thats putting more people at an advantage / forcing them to stick to one playstyle of stashing gear, and returning to that tent upon respwn. this is a mechanic which i believe defies the logic and idea of the game - how can your freshly spawned character know the whereabouts exactly of your last toons tent? doesnt it make more sense to have a base thats safe when you are logged off, but collapses when u die? this way you can retrieve a small amount of gear upon respawn, instead of basically exploiting a broken mechanic..

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

i think it is for those players who don't have the opportunity to play the game on a regular basis. so i can understand both sides somehow.

i was asking that very question some time ago:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/125449-how-to-handle-property-the-issue-when-being-offline/

yep and your thread has some great ideas, really similar to mine, if not just more thought out :P

 

i think to a certain extent dayz should reward players who invest more time in game. the system im suggesting would allow for casual, lone players, to be able to save their own gear, despite having a much busier real life, wth work and a family.  bandits could still team up, decide to make a base also and enjoy all the benefits, while not getting any unreailistic advantage.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

I've always hated "safe" stash systems. That's why, for the most part, when I play minecraft, I play on vanilla servers (locking chests are no fun!) Now, if you built stashes and they haven't been looted, you hid your stash well. Tents anyone? (More variation would be nice, however. A rock shaped tent?)

fair enough, thanks for the feedback.

 

iv had countless tents and just feel like there are a number of obvious issues with the current system, ill order in magnitude of the problem.

1- you can just turn your graphics down, fly / drive along the borders of the map, at leat 10 tents will jump out at you. rendering is a pretty bad problem in this game, but storage spaces shouldnt be so obvious to notice, especially camouflaged tents. currently, with hackers teleporting, and the talentless sods that are cod players, tents are pointless because of this.

2-when you die, go back to your old tent, and rearm straight away anyway. congrats, you're basically abusing a flawed mechanic. if anyone could explain to me how your fresh spawn knows the whereabouts of his mysterious past lives stash spots, that would be great too.

3-do you leave your character logged in when you arent playing too? what makes you justify / rationalize your character and all their gear being safe during your game downtime, but nothing else?

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

Bases in SA are actually almost confirmed, it has definetly been addressed as well, I do like the constructive criticism in this post, it's been a while before I've had a good read on a post haha

Here's the list of confirmed features in dayz:

http://www.dayztv.com/standalone/dayz-standalone-confirmed-features/

haha thanks, im glad my first thread here is entertaining someone :P. im aiming for getting enough criticizm, so that i can streamline this idea into something majority of the players in this community are ok with, before i make a reddit account and submit it there.

 

even if all that comes from this is i spread awareness to the importance of a basic stash system, and how it could encourage group contributions and efforts just by the fact its offered in game. if people can understand the concept and the benefit it could potentially have that would be awesome. if it were implemented, the most likely psychological effect on players will be less gun stroking kos nutters, but by not discouraging that playstyle at all. fact is, its always been more difficult being alone, not being able to blood bag or epi pen etc. so even the game at this point acknowledges benefits to playing with more people. with this new different SA atmopshere present, dayz would be a little more like its vanilla days, where everyone had a sense of unknown and wonder, and felt inclined to find strength in numbers, and to share, instead of sinking deeper and deeper into a solo, hate fueled mania of beans and .22 shells, in retaliation to hackers, griefers, and black ops 2 'veterans' ahahahahahahahha.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

One interesting mechanic could be to work on player to player interdependency, to the point of rigging loot tables. Make it less likely that you will have anything useful to "you" spawning around you, example: ammo that matches your gun, medicine if you are sick.

 

I don't think someone who is sick would necessarly kill anyone for medicine, if anything it's a bargain chip because it is useless to the healty player but priceless to the sick player.

 

But then you have those who will start being douches the second they think they are condemned.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

You are already able to safely store gear when logged out.

 

Just put it in your main inventory or your backpack. <_<

the aim of a bug out bag is usually to survive for max 72 hours. after that, you need to be able to supply yourself via other methods, usually reaching a bug out location after a bit of a hike.

 

ask most people, and in the event of a global crisis / apocalypse, next to no one would think the idea of surviving solely on what u have on your person is logical. bug out bags often contain tools to rebuild basic housing. my hiking backpack has the tools to hack down some trees, and enough rope to tie together a pretty sweet shelter. also, the vast vast majority of people would answer that rebuilding, even a temporary home for themselves, is the best course of action to take, unless you like hypothermia and death via exposure to the elements.

 

no one in their right minds would LIKE the idea in a real life event, of being forced to live alone, with no supplies other than what they can carry, for the rest of their lives. what happens (if you could last that long) when you get old and sore, and start getting too immobile to escape a zombie onslaught? you simply need a base at some point. even if its just to die comfortably. even lone wolf bandits need somewhere to store their blood stained loot eventually too, as youd begin to amass more survival gear than could be carried on person.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

One interesting mechanic could be to work on player to player interdependency, to the point of rigging loot tables. Make it less likely that you will have anything useful to "you" spawning around you, example: ammo that matches your gun, medicine if you are sick.

 

I don't think someone who is sick would necessarly kill anyone for medicine, if anything it's a bargain chip because it is useless to the healty player but priceless to the sick player.

 

But then you have those who will start being douches the second they think they are condemned.

thats another really good idea, about the rigged loot tables. people knowing this mechanic exists in the game would force players to make confrontations every once in a while. at the same time, with the threat of gear being destroyed when shot at in SA, both sides of a trade would be inclined towards not shooting each other, at least until after the trade.

 

theres just something about forced player confrontations im not a massive fan of. with bases, its a mutual shared feeling of 'we should both do this for extra chance of survival', not 'i need to do this or i will not survive'.

 

i saw a definite increase in player hostility when antibiotics were rare in that recent patch though =/. towns with hospitals in them were pvp zones for a while on the servers i player on... so i cant see it going any other way than people being more aggressive to get what they want, because getting the item in the first place was way too difficult. these towns were bad enough before this patch too. too many young inexperienced gamers start playing dayz, after getting bored trying to be a cod hero. after getting absolutely owned every life because they dont understand basic situational awareness and how to move in cover, they google things like 'good sniping spots' or 'how to be a sniper bandit' and before the dayz community could ask 'got any spare beans?' elektro, cherno, stary, balota and NE were getting swarms of invading campers, faster than a large venue outdoor music festival.

[Rage VG 4033]

I feel like now your just being a little pedantic because its how this community seems to act when a new concept is introduced. sure, bandits and kosers have a place in the game. but it shouldnt be gamebreaking to the extent it can be today in the dayz community.

 

i completely agree with making items harder to keep, the fact is, the suggestions i put into place tho are all in line with how dayz currently is, and dont ask for anything unrealistic. the mechanics im attemtpting to explain dont force anyone to change their playstyle or mentality at all. they arent forcing a change to anyones mentality. they are giving people bases and anyone who wants to utilise them can. bases are something that has been confirmed too. so if its a mechanic that will eventually be implemented anyway, it definetly, at the very least, needs to improved upon  A LOT from the current tent system.

 

i just want to make this clear, you are sorta saying you dont care that the amount of bandit KOSers shot through the roof when a huge amount of children got bored of cod, and that it changed dayz for ever. when did you start playing the mod? cos i can tell you, long gone are the days of making a group of random survivors, banding together from elektro to do a vybor raid, and then painting the airfield red. these days youll either get sniped instantly in elektro, some child in your group gets bored running north and starts just onloading on your group with no reguard for even themselves... your also sayin, if base building offered even the most basic of storage abilities, players would be forced to do something. No ones forcing people to play as a bandit or not, and no ones forcing them to live alone, with or without any stored supplies. if bandits and kosers dont want to take advantage of this system, thats no problem. they just dont get the added benefit of having a storage space.

 

so in summary, a base building / storage option, whether advanced or even the most basic of approaches would cause players to want to change their own playstyles to take advantage of these features, regardless of if you aim it to change the communities playstyle, or not.

 

edit: a feature already exists, and has for a long time, that forces players to group up, or not be able to sieze certain game opportunites / items.  blood bags and epi pens. so, do you disagree with the mod in this regard to? was it too much hassle having to follow a realistic idea of not being able to give yourself an adrenaline shot while your passed out? were you upset when you couldnt blood bag yourself, and wish that feature wasnt in the game, because it forces players to work together?

I'm not being "pedantic" at all... I'm saying that if the mod allows and encourages people to do this, we shouldn't actively impose on that. I don't see how that's pedantic.

 

You seem to be glued to the generalization that ALL KoSers/Bandits are all CoDKiddies. This is simply untrue; there are plenty of active, mature and well known bandits and KoSers on these forums. To simply label them as "children bored of cod" because you don't like the way they play is rather shallow.

 

Also, I fail to see how you break a survival game by surviving. Intentions aside, killing other people for gain is a valid way to survive in this world. If you keep chalking every occurrence of Banditry or KoSing to "people playing the game like cod" then I'm afraid you're missing the entire point of the game.

 

And yes, base building will motivate players to work together. I never once said this wouldn't work or was a bad thing, nor have I ever said I disagree with any feature requiring any sort of co-operation (I play as a medic, in fact. You can't get more co-operative than that). I said if you open up your suggestion with "to stop people KoSing" then it significantly devalues your efforts at trying to get me in favor of your idea and I'm sure that's true for plenty of people around here.

 

Finally, Blood bags require two people, but that wasn't because they wanted to stop people playing solo, it was because it was a sensible and logical mechanic that just so happened to encourage co-operation. There are still valid ways to circumvent or otherwise achieve similar or the same results this solo such as hunting, and blood bags can still be used in a bandit/KoS playstyle as a form of bait. It works because it's not trying to tailor to a specific playstyle, it's trying to simply make sense. Any form of playstyle changes that follows are completely natural.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Rage VG

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

I'm not being "pedantic" at all... I'm saying that if the mod allows and encourages people to do this, we shouldn't actively impose on that. I don't see how that's pedantic.

pedanitc, as in you are saying your own set of rules as if they are set in stone on a suggestion forum. it seems to me youve read over the rest of the posts iv made, and instead of taking out of it that im very open to a more fair approach, you nit picked the jokes i made referencing another shooter. the truth is cod is a very mainstream game, and when the same playstyles are used in dayz, it has some pretty hilarious/annoying consequences. this doesnt mean anything has to be done to prevent this though. what im saying is bases would need 2 people to be constructed beyond a certain size anyway. whether this is encouraged by incentives or not, is what we should be discussing here. the original system i mentioned has a big 'these are just ideas and rough numbers and up for constructive criticism' line plonked up the top, because this suggestion was originally an attempt at something logical, and of realistic equal use to each playstyle. the change was up to the player. and the mechanic up for discussion and change also.

 

You seem to be glued to the generalization that ALL KoSers/Bandits are all CoDKiddies. This is simply untrue; there are plenty of active, mature and well known bandits and KoSers on these forums. To simply label them as "children bored of cod" because you don't like the way they play is rather shallow.

there definetly are mature and well knows kosers, but as shallow as you might think it is, prove me wrong. prove the majority of noob commando wannabes arent from the cod community. iv never heard a more juvenile testy-popping game lobby in my life than in cods. that same sound you hear being screached by a swiftly banned hacker on side chat. or the same squeal of laughter as they kill your toon before youv even faded in from load screen, similar to how they did with tomahawks in cod.

 

Also, I fail to see how you break a survival game by surviving. Intentions aside, killing other people for gain is a valid way to survive in this world. If you keep chalking every occurrence of Banditry or KoSing to "people playing the game like cod" then I'm afraid you're missing the entire point of the game.

im not saying that the odd bandit here and there is a game breaking problem. its definetly a valid way, but the proportion of bandits kosing to friendlies is rediculous. this game is built upon an idea of trying to replicate a realistic and unforgiving atmosphere, which was kind of ruined a little before standalone by an influx of wannabe snipers. so the odd bandit isnt a problem, but when you are a fresh spawn and you're getting sniped at as soon as fade in has finished, this breaks the possibility of the freshly spawned player surviving, as well strays off a bit from realism. would there really be 10 snipers sitting on a hillside all day, sniping people carrying nothing but the clothes on their backs, at every large town on the map?

 

currently the mods front page says something like

step1:scavenge

step2:slay zombies/bandits

step3:survive

 

its not really supposed to be

 

step 1:spawn

step 2 respawn cos u got spawn killed by a bandit

step 3 respawn again... bandit

step 4 get out of town then sniped, have to respawn again

step 5 spawn killed in town again

step 6 spawn killed BEFORE finish fading in

step 7 have no choice, play as a kos bandit

step 7 survive

 

you know rocket has said himself there are going to be less military weapons in general, especially upon release? this was likely to curb the persistent pvp war going on a little. the as50 and m107 being taken out are another perfect example. they were realistic, but were overused, and far far too common, which soon made them very unrealistic. so the game devs will make a call like this if they want to, its not up to players and what they want. i think i see the point of the game just as clearly as everyone else, but you're rejecting an idea while ignoring the tweaks im offering, theres nothing i can help you with there sorry.

 

And yes, base building will motivate players to work together. I never once said this wouldn't work or was a bad thing, nor have I ever said I disagree with any feature requiring any sort of co-operation (I play as a medic, in fact. You can't get more co-operative than that). I said if you open up your suggestion with "to stop people KoSing" then it significantly devalues your efforts at trying to get me in favor of your idea and I'm sure that's true for plenty of people around here.

i dont really agree with what you think about people just skimming over this here. people who care about the mechanic enough to make a difference at all, with a post of their own or something, will drop in and give their 2 cents, and that is all i need anyway, this is my first thread on this forum, and has amassed plenty enough posts and views for me to be happy with it. this is just a draft too so i can rethink and tweak it a little before i drop it off at reddit for a consideration.

 

what would you name the thread, without changing any of the content inside of it to match its new title? would that keep us on track a little more, about a base system that just requires a logical amount of materials and effort to construct?

 

Finally, Blood bags require two people, but that wasn't because they wanted to stop people playing solo, it was because it was a sensible and logical mechanic that just so happened to encourage co-operation. There are still valid ways to circumvent or otherwise achieve similar or the same results this solo such as hunting, and blood bags can still be used in a bandit/KoS playstyle as a form of bait. It works because it's not trying to tailor to a specific playstyle, it's trying to simply make sense. Any form of playstyle changes that follows are completely natural.

this backs up what i am saying. bases, whether in a crude format, or the fleshed out enterable ones later on, would need 2 people to build beyond a certain size. this isnt forcing anyone to work together, it just makes sense, because this is true in real life. construction  of anything beyond a certain size and weight needs multiple people. any amount of grouped players or a lone survivor would be able to achieve similar or the same results still, while making sense as you say it should. again, ignore any incentives beyond the base new storage space itself, and this isnt changing any form of playstyle thus it feels natural.

[Rage VG 4033]

Well we're going to get nowhere with this back and forth since I'm going to be saying roughly the same thing for the third time now...

What I am telling you IS set in stone because I made it clear from the start it is MY opinion that I know what my opinion is. I never once said that everyone must follow or even agree with my opinion, I said that it's probably true for everyone, meaning a lot of people may feel similar and have expressed such in the past.

And as I've said twice now, I didn't have any problem with your suggestions. It was the fact you presented them initially to "Change mentality", and like I said that immediately dissuades me from giving your post a shot because chances are it's filled with the same tripe a LOT of posts seemingly centered around trying to cater in favor of a certain playstyle. Just so we're clear, not once do I mention that your suggestions hold no merit or accuracy or that I don't like them, I'm saying that your presentation leads me to believe I'm not going to agree with the reasoning behind it. You can't tell me that if you saw a post the length of your OP and you had a rather strong indication that you won't like its logic, you wouldn't pre-emptively take a negative stance on it. My initial post was purely to tell you that you came across as (Not that you were) wanting to force players out of a certain playstyle, and that it gave me a negative impression of your post before I even read it. That is merely criticism that you evidently took on board with your title change which I commended. I have no idea why you're trying to justify your changes to me because as I told you I didn't disagree with them in the first place; I would certainly agree that a solo player should have a hard time, or at least harder time, constructing a base because that honestly is common sense. It honestly was just your presentation I wanted to touch upon and hopefully allow you to see how it might come across the wrong way. At this point we are drifting away from either discussing the ideas or my input on the title, and we're sorta squabbling about things that neither of us really disagree on.

 

And to answer this question:

 

what would you name the thread, without changing any of the content inside of it to match its new title? would that keep us on track a little more, about a base system that just requires a logical amount of materials and effort to construct?

 

How about something that mentions a base system, and not the words "trying to change mentality"? Here would be my first guess:

"Standalone - Base construction requirements and mechanics suggestion".

So, we know from the get-go you want to discuss the various methods and requirements for the new base-building and offer your input, instead of appearing like you want to discuss ways to stop people doing this or playing like that, et cetera.

You could then freely suggest that a solo player would have a harder time gathering supplies and putting them to use as opposed to a team (a la building a car) due to it being logical, without potentially immediately alienating KoSers or people such as myself who are instinctively wary of threads that appear to be 'QQ-posts', which I can now see that yours is not. This is what I recommended from my first post but now it has somehow drawn out into a debate on your suggestion themselves, which as I have explained at length didn't even interest me because I was under the impression they were centered around mentality manipulation as the title would suggest. Clearly you were not after this, so I suggested that you may want to reconsider how you approached your potential audience with your suggestions.

 

Now that I have hopefully got my point across, there is no need for you to justify your suggestions to me. I'm sure that you've put a lot of thought and detail into them and it would really be a shame for you to spend your time debating your ideas with me, who honestly doesn't have any strong or otherwise valuable feedback either way on your suggestions themselves, just took slight issue with the title/presentation of them, as opposed to the folks here who have analyzed your post and are able to provide potential improvements or changes to your ideas which is what you created it for in the first place. ^^

Edited July 23, 2013 by Rage VG

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

Well we're going to get nowhere with this back and forth since I'm going to be saying roughly the same thing for the third time now...

What I am telling you IS set in stone because I made it clear from the start it is MY opinion that I know what my opinion is. I never once said that everyone must follow or even agree with my opinion, I said that it's probably true for everyone, meaning a lot of people may feel similar and have expressed such in the past.

And as I've said twice now, I didn't have any problem with your suggestions. It was the fact you presented them initially to "Change mentality", and like I said that immediately dissuades me from giving your post a shot because chances are it's filled with the same tripe a LOT of posts seemingly centered around trying to cater in favor of a certain playstyle. Just so we're clear, not once do I mention that your suggestions hold no merit or accuracy or that I don't like them, I'm saying that your presentation leads me to believe I'm not going to agree with the reasoning behind it. You can't tell me that if you saw a post the length of your OP and you had a rather strong indication that you won't like its logic, you wouldn't pre-emptively take a negative stance on it. My initial post was purely to tell you that you came across as (Not that you were) wanting to force players out of a certain playstyle, and that it gave me a negative impression of your post before I even read it. That is merely criticism that you evidently took on board with your title change which I commended. I have no idea why you're trying to justify your changes to me because as I told you I didn't disagree with them in the first place; I would certainly agree that a solo player should have a hard time, or at least harder time, constructing a base because that honestly is common sense. It honestly was just your presentation I wanted to touch upon and hopefully allow you to see how it might come across the wrong way. At this point we are drifting away from either discussing the ideas or my input on the title, and we're sorta squabbling about things that neither of us really disagree on.

 

And to answer this question:

 

How about something that mentions a base system, and not the words "trying to change mentality"? Here would be my first guess:

"Standalone - Base construction requirements and mechanics suggestion".

So, we know from the get-go you want to discuss the various methods and requirements for the new base-building and offer your input, instead of appearing like you want to discuss ways to stop people doing this or playing like that, et cetera.

You could then freely suggest that a solo player would have a harder time gathering supplies and putting them to use as opposed to a team (a la building a car) due to it being logical, without potentially immediately alienating KoSers or people such as myself who are instinctively wary of threads that appear to be 'QQ-posts', which I can now see that yours is not. This is what I recommended from my first post but now it has somehow drawn out into a debate on your suggestion themselves, which as I have explained at length didn't even interest me because I was under the impression they were centered around mentality manipulation as the title would suggest. Clearly you were not after this, so I suggested that you may want to reconsider how you approached your potential audience with your suggestions.

 

Now that I have hopefully got my point across, there is no need for you to justify your suggestions to me. I'm sure that you've put a lot of thought and detail into them and it would really be a shame for you to spend your time debating your ideas with me, who honestly doesn't have any strong or otherwise valuable feedback either way on your suggestions themselves, just took slight issue with the title/presentation of them, as opposed to the folks here who have analyzed your post and are able to provide potential improvements or changes to your ideas which is what you created it for in the first place. ^^

well said dude. i was about to say this was going nowhere... so ima just be brief as i can.

 

i still think you were being a little excessive in discrediting the suggestion perhaps without even reading that the idea was in fact already aimed at solving the problem you had. thats what made me drag on so much. this was good tho, tbh i didnt fully consider the concept of gamers feeling so entitled to their current playstyles, they cant handle it being purposely shaped even if its logical and fair.  i still dont understand this idea of attachment people have, with the knowledge that the alpha and standalone will be purposely changed to tweak its play environment and simulate realism on a regular basis..

 

i probably wont change the title for a reddit post that much, something like '[sA] how to naturally encourage goup play through base building, lowering the amount of kos incidents slightly as a side effect' but thanks anyway mate :)

[plexico 386]

Starting to think OP got killed by a lot of bandits and this is a rage thread in disguise.

[-Gews- 7443]

I'm still not seeing how this would help the game... someone logs in and "poof!" there appears a fleet of Urals, a heavily fortified base, several tents and dozens of high-end weapons... then they log out and zzzzzap, it's all magically gone in the blink of an eye.

 

 

 

 

 

Does the OP want each player have their own TARDIS?

 

 

Because that's what I'm seeing here...

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

Starting to think OP got killed by a lot of bandits and this is a rage thread in disguise.

rofl, if i were raging youd know it. anything in caps or bold in my is for emphasis of a point, not emphasizing its supposed to be shouted or something...

 

starting to think this suggestion forum is filled with people trying to just shoot down any ideas instead of even trying to help. no worries, thats why im taking this to reddit.

[tomfacekillahhh 5]

I'm still not seeing how this would help the game... someone logs in and "poof!" there appears a fleet of Urals, a heavily fortified base, several tents and dozens of high-end weapons... then they log out and zzzzzap, it's all magically gone in the blink of an eye.

 

 

 

 

 

Does the OP want each player have their own TARDIS?

 

 

Because that's what I'm seeing here...

well you dont understand the concept buddy.

 

your joke kinda serves to discredit your own point. tardis would serve to explain HOW ON EARTH my amd everyone elses character is able to disappear from the game world. magically disappearing when you logout is something every player experiences, your tardis joke highlights the contradicting mechanic currently in place. your character can be poofed away, but you have to leave any excess gear behind. gear that in the real world, you would wake up to defend, if you were sleeping. so your tardis suggestion definetly makes more sense than currently being able to disappear at will, magically, and phasing back into existence when you have the time to play. at least i could go into said tardis and logout with the gear i have on person, knowing and understanding why thats all im allowed to keep safe...

 

in the suggestion i am making, anything stored in a base will be invisible, like weapons in a tent. the only thing 'poofing' in is a tiny 'stash' node, the contents of which are inside. then when you logout, ZAP! the single tiny stash node (a rock or an underground bunker entry, like currently in the mod), disappears with you. its no less feasible than your character disappearing and saving the gear they have on them, or 'zap'ping into existence when they log on.

 

this is in line with the idea rocket has mentioned being interested in. so far, what seems to be the most feasible approach to base building is an underground instanced base, the entry point being the only thing anyone can see/access in the game world.

 

if you still think its more realistic and fair that a character that disappears from the game when they are logged out, should be unable to respond to any invading looters at their base, im hearing what you're saying, but dont agree.

 

and i dont know where you even got the idea of a fortified base appearing. my suggestion never says anything about these bases being above ground, except for the node which could even be similar to the current dayz stash input system.

 

my suggestion helps the game by attempting to utilize base building realistically and feasibly, while not lagging the servers to bits (or making bases pop up EVERYWHERE) like above ground bases would. it also elminates the possibility of people simply rearming at their old toons tent. this shouldnt even be possible, how the f does a toon know the whereabout of this mystery tent, after just respawning?

 

simple fact is, you arent going to be able to have persistent above ground bases at all in standalone, nothing more really than the current tent system anyway. i dont know anyone whos used a tent for months, besides to exploit, or as bait. they were just too poorly implemented of a mechanic, with the rendering distance problem especially....