The Importance of the Humanity System in Maintaining a Healthy Player Base

[Vicco 123]

I've seen many players posting pro, con and "neutral" about KOS.

Here's my observations, and you can agree or disagree.

KOS ISN'T NEW. It was rampant at the very beginning, and the earliest Youtube vids of Dayz gameplay prove that. Why do players have memories of "friendliness" and "mutual cooperation" when Dayz was first released?

Simply because there were more players who were looking for that aspect of the game in "the beginning."

What happened to them? They quit playing, because they didn't like playing a game where they'd get KOS'ed or backstabbed. That's their right - to quit playing Dayz.

Most of these players won't even try out the stand-alone if they're smart. There will be KOS and backstabbers. If this type player otherwise really likes the zombie/survival/environment aspects of Dayz, they can find private servers, or have their own server. Their choice.

Remaining Dayz players on vanilla public servers are KOS'ers, or those who accept KOS and backstabbiing as part of the game. Simple as that. You can wish for what you want, but you get what you get.

Humanity system. This is the only mechanic that keeps most non-KOS'ers in the vanilla game.

There are some players who lone-wolf around, and kill a bandit now and then, and others who look for player interaction. The rest are bandits or bandits-to-be.

Without the bandit skin mechanic most of the non-KOS players wouldn't join public servers.

New players looking for player interaction would quickly drop the game.

So without the humanity mechanic public server play will dry up even more than it has, and only be populated by "death match" players, and the occasional new non-KOS type player who stumbles in not knowing what to expect. He'll quit playing quickly enough.

Now "challenge" me on anything I've said. I know there are those who don't like the humanity system, which is far from perfect. Some are genuine "self-defense" shooters. Others are just murderers who don't want their conduct identified with a skin.

I have my own play style, and bias. But what I've said seems pretty evident to me.

With no bandit skin to identify bandits, EVERYBODY must be assumed to be a bandit.

"Vicious circle" in action.

So KOS becomes an imperative, and the game is death match only. Player base dries up.

It's one thing to take a chance on interacting with a survivor who hasn't "earned" a bandit skin. It's what provides much of the game's tension. But without bandit skins, it's just death match. Some players would like that, but they are in the minority.

Anyway, that's my spiel. KOS doesn't bother me as long as KOSing earns a bandit skin. Backstabbing doesn't bother me as long as it earns a bandit skin. 2-4 murders seems about right. Blood-bag spamming to lose the bandit skin should be eliminated. Make 'em work to lose it. Or be a "real" bandit and just wear it "proudly."

My main concern is that Dayz remains vital with a large player base, and doesn't go niche.

It is quite the game, quite the game.

That means the right balance to attract the largest "acceptable" player base on public servers.

Of course the devs are always shooting for this.

I really hope the humanity system for the stand-alone is given serious attention.

Because I see that as the key to the above goal. Of course that's my bias.

This forum provides a lot of feedback. Don't know that it is representative of the "general"

public, but it's the most valuable source, maybe aside from sales trend lines.

Hard to get a handle on how many posting here are playing on public servers.

Private servers don't count much, as bandit skins are irrelevant.

Anything goes on private servers.

[novogeek 253]

I agree with you ... I don't KOS but that is the way I choose to play ... I know it is rampant and I steer clear of people I don't trust. I think to loose a Bandit skin, you should not have a Murder or another Player Hit (with any weapon) for the equivalent of x hours gameplay based on your murders ... so the more murders you have on your player ... the more difficult it will be to get rid of the bandit skin.

Not sure if this is still a factor, but switching to a Ghillie or other clothing should not remove the Bandit Skin (never been a Bandit so I am not sure how it works). Good post.

[geogeorgegeo@hotmail.co.uk 50]

My main concern is that Dayz remains vital with a large player base, and doesn't go niche.

It is quite the game, quite the game.

That means the right balance to attract the largest "acceptable" player base on public servers.

Of course the devs are always shooting for this.

I really hope the humanity system for the stand-alone is given serious attention.

Because I see that as the key to the above goal. Of course that's my bias.

This forum provides a lot of feedback. Don't know that it is representative of the "general"

public, but it's the most valuable source, maybe aside from sales trend lines.

Hard to get a handle on how many posting here are playing on public servers.

Private servers don't count much, as bandit skins are irrelevant.

Anything goes on private servers.

wat

[thelonewarrior 886]

Groups like mine make it out number 1 priority to kill bandits and hunt them

If more groups emerges that were willing to make a stand we might see some difference

After all it's OUR sandbox world, it's up to us to make a change

We shouldn't rely on such systems as I've seen many fake heroes and many bandits who were friendly, most of the time it's survivor skins that shoot at me

So with or without the skins it would be the same,

Edited July 1, 2013 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[DemonGroover 8836]

I agree that as a game it probably needs something that reflects play style. I am not sure if an instant bandit skin is the way to go though. I would prefer something a bit more subtle, perhaps rockets idea of blood spattered hands or something, I dunno tbh.

I too dislike the way bandits could spam bloodbag each other to regain humanity. The Humanity system does need work and it will be interesting to see which way the devs go.

[terrvik 2409]

I honestly can't figure out why so many wants to hold on to the outdated humanity system.

If you see a heavily armed player running around (especially if a system where interacting with bloody corpses will add blood stains on clothing) he/she obviously is someone to be careful around. Isn't that enough?

An artificial system of numbers telling me whether I am a good person or not should not be a part of the game in my opinion and I really hope it is scrapped.

[WBK 176]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP. I don't think Humanity substantially affects KoS either way. It lets people know who is and who isn't a murderer, sure, but that just means people either go out to specifically hunt bandits or stay away from them. So I don't think removing it will make a large impact on the KoS community. I don't even want it to be removed until SA. But when SA comes along, I really hope the Humanity system is gone. Why? It artificially impacts on playstyle. It makes people aspire to be heroes or bandits. Once someone is a bandit, there's not much point in trying to be friendly because everyone wants to kill you, so you just adopt the new playstyle. Heroes are at least something worthwhile to try to be, but I still think they're ridiculous. You can spam bloodbag your way to heroism, and then you have to wear that ridiculous bright clothing.

People might say that spam-bagging or some such is just an exploit, it'll get ironed out. It might, but people will always find a way to exploit the system. If there's no system, they can't exploit it. If there's no system, then they have to make one for themselves, which is how it should be. Especially with the advent of player customisation in the SA, I hope the clothing of heroes/bandits are gone. How cool would it be if there was a clan who frequented your server, and they all wore the same clothes? Imagine some badass KoS clan who all wore black leather, or maybe a medic clan who all wear white clothes. I'd be genuinely scared of the black leather crew, and I'd know if I needed help I'd look out for the white-clothed people. Clan identification is cool, because you'll truly know what they're about, and it gives them a sense of pride and belonging to be with that clan. That's not artificially impacting playstyle, that is the environment and the society influencing playstyle, which is fine, awesome even. Playstyle identification is not cool, because one bandit could be totally different from the other, but yet we're giving them all the same label, shoehorning them into some decisions they did not want to make.

EDIT: Also, some bandits want to be tricksters. How on earth do you trick anyone except noobs with a bloody turban on? I want real bandits to lure me in, make me trust them and then steal my gear or possibly kill me. That would make me respect 'bandits' and have a healthy level of respect for every player, not some predetermined idea just because of some clothes they're forced to wear.

TL;DR - I really hope humanity is gone by the SA

Edited July 1, 2013 by WBK

[thengeance 19]

I think the best game for comparison out on the market to DayZ is EVE, in spirit more than anything else. For those of you who haven't experienced it, same style of lose-everything-you've-got when you blow up, an even higher level of treachery/backstabbing, and lots of space jogging. The major difference in terms of banditry is that in EVE, for outright assaults on players in high security (highsec) systems, you are labeled a pirate and will be attacked on sight by NPC ships. This means that pirates who value their lives will typically only risk doing so in low-null security systems for fear of an NPC spanking.

I'm not a fan of NPC's, but I think this kind of system might be interesting to observe in DayZ. Have a map like Cherno where one of the major cities and 2-3 smaller towns are patrolled by NPC's. Not sure how this would function alongside zeds, but it would be cool to see a "Bambi Haven" of sorts, on a very limited basis. Probably not the direction the devs (or most others) want to go, but I feel like this is the only way to keep people from murdering each other on sight constantly. I'll just lay in some bushes and take my chances.

[WBK 176]

Poster above, I think you'll cop a fair bit of flak for wanting NPC's, so for what it's worth, I won't shout at you. That being said, NPC's would ruin immersion. You know they're either going to be friendly or evil, and if for some weird reason the devs made them and coded them so they acted randomly, the community wouldn't accept that sort of randomness from an NPC. IF (ctrl+b,i,u ftw) they were implemented, I think they'd act as an extermination group: soldiers sent by the army to rid Chernarus of the infection once and for all. Friendlies could work also, but it'd be too much of a help to fresh spawns. Regardless of how good they might be though, they would destroy immersion. Firstly, they wouldn't react to a dynamically evolving situation. Secondly, they'd be great shots; too good in fact. Finally, it's an MMO. NPC's are defined by coding. Real players are defined by nothing - apart from that silly humanity system. That's what makes this game so great. NPC's would take a lot more than they could give to the game.

[Vicco 123]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP. I don't think Humanity substantially affects KoS either way.

I welcome your disagreement. As I said, basically going on comments I see here, and from what I've seen on YT, the most common justification for KOS among survivors is "kill of be killed." That's completely understandable, and consistent with the "vicious circle" paradigm.

How much this plays out on public servers I don't know. Public servers should already be skinning murderers. It's really hard to get a good handle on it, but it seems there is severe player attrition due to rampant KOS by survivors. Since skinning is already in place server wide on the public hive, it seems most of the complaints are from those playing in private hives. But I don't know that. And I don't even "know" that severe player attrition is occurring. That's just my "impression" from reading this forum.

From the KOS complaints I've seen here and elsewhere, it does "seem" to lead players to abandoning the game. But it may be from people just tiring of the game. Even most KOS'er's will tire of that, as the game's design isn't very conducive to doing purely that.

Anyway, everybody has a different view. And I roll with that, but express my own. I really believe that without a "penalty" for it, murder is the name of the game.

As I've said, I have no problem with KOS'ers or bandits if they are willing to pay the price. I mean, the price to be paid for trusting a survivor can be death by murder, and re-gearing. If you think that murdering should extract no price, you're basically putting far too much trust in "human nature," or are copasetic with murdering as your main game play. Because unless you're playing with "friends" only, that's what you'll get, including from me if I chose to play the game. How could it be otherwise? There's no incentive for me to trust a stranger, and every incentive to murder him. "Human nature" works only by carrot and stick. Always has.

[Vicco 123]

Poster above, I think you'll cop a fair bit of flak for wanting NPC's, so for what it's worth, I won't shout at you. That being said, NPC's would ruin immersion. You know they're either going to be friendly or evil, and if for some weird reason the devs made them and coded them so they acted randomly, the community wouldn't accept that sort of randomness from an NPC.

I basically agree with you, and with AI it's a different game. But there are plenty already playing with AI in.

Origins is one example, and SARGE AI is in place on some private servers.

I just put SARGE AI on my server, in Chernarus, which I use solo or with a partner.

The AI does randomly spawn within configurable parameters. I left mine as default SARGE AI, so I don't really know where they will spawn, but have already encountered some.

They are groups of soldiers, bandits, and survivor/heroes. Everything can be configured pretty easily, including the number in the groups and their weapons. Some will patrol, some will ambush.

Soldiers and survivors attack zeds and bandits. Bandits attack everyone. All will attack you if you shoot at them.

I expect more servers to install AI if DayZ loses too many players due to what we're talking about here.

If the game loses all conversational player interaction and is all death match, then most people would rather play against AI. Smarter and better shooting opponents, and they keep their traps shut too.

I didn't tell my partner I put AI in, and he was shot by bandits shortly after he spawned in.

He told me to change the server password.

[WBK 176]

I welcome your disagreement.

It's good to have a healthy argument!

I don't even "know" that severe player attrition is occurring. That's just my "impression" from reading this forum.

I applaud you for actually stating that something is opinion as opposed to fact. Too many people do otherwise.

Anyway, everybody has a different view. And I roll with that, but express my own. I really believe that without a "penalty" for it, murder is the name of the game.

As I've said, I have no problem with KOS'ers or bandits if they are willing to pay the price. I mean, the price to be paid for trusting a survivor can be death by murder, and re-gearing. If you think that murdering should extract no price, you're basically putting far too much trust in "human nature," or are copasetic with murdering as your main game play. Because unless you're playing with "friends" only, that's what you'll get, including from me if I chose to play the game. How could it be otherwise? There's no incentive for me to trust a stranger, and every incentive to murder him. "Human nature" works only by carrot and stick. Always has.

I don't think there should be a price for murdering. I don't play that way, I don't like it, and I think it's the 'wrong way' to play, but if someone can feasibly survive in the apocalypse killing other people while actively disregarding their own safety then all power to them. There is no palpable, tangible incentive to trust a player and that's the way it should be. Of course you can kill other players, or you can ignore them, whichever will assist you in surviving. But there will always be the potential for meeting up with a true friendly (that should be the interview with Van Halen btw), and because there is so much mistrust, whenever you find a friend or maybe just an accomplice it is so rewarding! It's not just carrots and sticks, but that's where the vast majority of activity happens. It's stupid to go up to someone yelling "I'm friendly", and it's wanton to KoS, so you just have to take what you can get with the utmost caution and ultimately trust your instincts.

copasetic

copasetic

copasetic

Your mastery of the English language has me sufficiently aroused and impressed. I've never seen or heard that word before!

[s4pphire 45]

There is no need for any further mechanics to prevent KOS, except maybe increasing the difficulty of the survival aspect of the game to encourage people to work together.

[Vicco 123]

I don't think there should be a price for murdering. I don't play that way, I don't like it, and I think it's the 'wrong way' to play, but if someone can feasibly survive in the apocalypse killing other people while actively disregarding their own safety then all power to them. There is no palpable, tangible incentive to trust a player and that's the way it should be. Of course you can kill other players, or you can ignore them, whichever will assist you in surviving. But there will always be the potential for meeting up with a true friendly (that should be the interview with Van Halen btw), and because there is so much mistrust, whenever you find a friend or maybe just an accomplice it is so rewarding! It's not just carrots and sticks, but that's where the vast majority of activity happens. It's stupid to go up to someone yelling "I'm friendly", and it's wanton to KoS, so you just have to take what you can get with the utmost caution and ultimately trust your instincts.

Your mastery of the English language has me sufficiently aroused and impressed. I've never seen or heard that word before!

Bandit skins didn't keep those who teamed up in that video from teaming up. Of course they may have earned them after they teamed up. Gets into mob psychology. Dogs will turn murderous when they pack. Not saying that happened here, just commenting. Although very entertaining, videos aren't representative of what a player finds in-game.

I don't see bandit skins as being an impediment to teaming up. Would be to me, because I KOS bandits if the odds are right. Others tolerate them.

I can't argue against what you think, but only suggest that having a good humanity system is necessary to keep the game popular among the larger player base. That's why there are bandit skins now, and why the stand-alone will have them, or some equivalent. Personally, I won't cry if the humanity system is removed. Just won't play Dayz.

I need my share of killing in Dayz, but only killing bandits will do. Just how it is. Won't matter to anybody if I don't play Dayz. Sure, some people won't get my friendship and aid. They can just look elsewhere. Because without penalizing murder, it will be a deathmatch game, and I don't play deathmatch. I know you think otherwise, and that's how it is. Can't say I'm right, because it hasn't happened yet. So it's just another opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

BTW, using the word "copasetic" doesn't mean I mastered anything. Just means I'm old.

[Skat3rat 1633]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP. I don't think Humanity substantially affects KoS either way. It lets people know who is and who isn't a murderer, sure, but that just means people either go out to specifically hunt bandits or stay away from them. So I don't think removing it will make a large impact on the KoS community. I don't even want it to be removed until SA. But when SA comes along, I really hope the Humanity system is gone. Why? It artificially impacts on playstyle. It makes people aspire to be heroes or bandits. Once someone is a bandit, there's not much point in trying to be friendly because everyone wants to kill you, so you just adopt the new playstyle. Heroes are at least something worthwhile to try to be, but I still think they're ridiculous. You can spam bloodbag your way to heroism, and then you have to wear that ridiculous bright clothing.

People might say that spam-bagging or some such is just an exploit, it'll get ironed out. It might, but people will always find a way to exploit the system. If there's no system, they can't exploit it. If there's no system, then they have to make one for themselves, which is how it should be. Especially with the advent of player customisation in the SA, I hope the clothing of heroes/bandits are gone. How cool would it be if there was a clan who frequented your server, and they all wore the same clothes? Imagine some badass KoS clan who all wore black leather, or maybe a medic clan who all wear white clothes. I'd be genuinely scared of the black leather crew, and I'd know if I needed help I'd look out for the white-clothed people. Clan identification is cool, because you'll truly know what they're about, and it gives them a sense of pride and belonging to be with that clan. That's not artificially impacting playstyle, that is the environment and the society influencing playstyle, which is fine, awesome even. Playstyle identification is not cool, because one bandit could be totally different from the other, but yet we're giving them all the same label, shoehorning them into some decisions they did not want to make.

EDIT: Also, some bandits want to be tricksters. How on earth do you trick anyone except noobs with a bloody turban on? I want real bandits to lure me in, make me trust them and then steal my gear or possibly kill me. That would make me respect 'bandits' and have a healthy level of respect for every player, not some predetermined idea just because of some clothes they're forced to wear.

TL;DR - I really hope humanity is gone by the SA

You nailed it man. I couldn't of said it better myself.

[misterwit 118]

Bandit skins didn't keep those who teamed up in that video from teaming up. Of course they may have earned them after they teamed up. Gets into mob psychology. Dogs will turn murderous when they pack. Not saying that happened here, just commenting. Although very entertaining, videos aren't representative of what a player finds in-game.

I don't see bandit skins as being an impediment to teaming up. Would be to me, because I KOS bandits if the odds are right. Others tolerate them.

I can't argue against what you think, but only suggest that having a good humanity system is necessary to keep the game popular among the larger player base. That's why there are bandit skins now, and why the stand-alone will have them, or some equivalent. Personally, I won't cry if the humanity system is removed. Just won't play Dayz.

I need my share of killing in Dayz, but only killing bandits will do. Just how it is. Won't matter to anybody if I don't play Dayz. Sure, some people won't get my friendship and aid. They can just look elsewhere. Because without penalizing murder, it will be a deathmatch game, and I don't play deathmatch. I know you think otherwise, and that's how it is. Can't say I'm right, because it hasn't happened yet. So it's just another opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

BTW, using the word "copasetic" doesn't mean I mastered anything. Just means I'm old.

I think the two of you have also skipped over the possibility of people getting a bandit skin when they are not bandits full-time. I'm pretty much always a bandit now because the survival aspect of the game is so easy that killing people is all you have left to get out of it once you've been playing for months. I know the cities by heart, I can get transportation, so all I can really do is either kill zeds or help bambis (which half of them are recently deceased bandits looking for a quick boost to their gear). However, there was a time when I was KOS in cherno and electro, just dinnerbell banditing until I killed someone with good gear, and then I would go out and explore and do the bambi babysitter service. Of course, that's kind of hard when you've got a bandit skin, so after I while I just gave up. Bambi's rarely remember who you are even if you're on a private hive, they have no way to repay you, they are usually really bad at the game and make for extra baggage, so you can't take them anywhere, and they also take all the loot that you would've taken for yourself if you were alone/ with friends.

So at this point in my DayZ days, I was a bandit without any reputation for helping the people I actually did help, and it was nigh-impossible to have any friendly encounters after that. I mean, I got over it, because my friend and I just went and killed everyone all the time once we completely gave up, but I think you can see how the "friendly" mentality is only useful to people who are NEW. I don't need anyone to fetch me a hatchet and a makarov, I don't need a car or a map, and I don't really even need anyone to fight alongside, but because I've played long enough to (usually) have a strong kit and a bandit skin, it forbids me from switch up if I decide to do something different.

DayZ needs veteran players, too. Veteran players need to be able to do different things day-to-day. Bandit skins tell them that their experience in the game no longer affords them variety. Also, bambis are selfish assholes who typically don't respect the sacrifice it takes to keep an extra person tied to you.

Edited July 1, 2013 by misterwit

[thengeance 19]

@WBK- I completely agree with you. I'm perfectly fine with the game as is in terms of not having NPC's. A few buddies of mine took me onto an Origins server to raid Sector B, and I was unimpressed to say the least. However, in a player driven world with no consequences, there will always be a gratuitous amount of PvP, and without any form of policing (City Guards in WoW, Po-po in EVE), this will continue to be an MMO that is PvP centric.

I'm cool with this, but I'm getting tired of people wanting a PvE game without making zombies stronger or implementing NPC's.

[HMS 115]

Many of the younger crowd that plays this game may not know this, but, there are people in this world who are broadcasting a mile away in all directions "I am a sociopath" and you will not only not F with them, you do whatever you can to avoid them. It can be a guy with prison tats on the bus with you, or the a-hole in the corner office. Some people are just rotten to the core.

Just like your subconscious tells you who is good and who is bad tomorrow on your way to work, there will need to be a way to differentiate between the good and the bad in DayZ. It won't be which guns they carry. Good guys like to carry big guns too, always will.

Humanity and the accompanying skins are the closest this game has ever come. Just like your subconscious, it still isn't perfect but nothing else will come close, I don't think.

Add the heartbeat to the bandits again - even with ghillie - and you have close to perfection. If you kill so much as 1 survivor, no matter what reason you think you had, unless they were going to kill you, you will always be haunted. If you persist down that path, it's gong to show.

[Vicco 123]

DayZ needs veteran players, too. Veteran players need to be able to do different things day-to-day. Bandit skins tell them that their experience in the game no longer affords them variety. Also, bambis are selfish assholes who typically don't respect the sacrifice it takes to keep an extra person tied to you.

A bandit skin really just says you murdered "too many" players. That's how it works. I've heard a lot of stupid crap about bandit skins. "They look cool, so it encourages players to turn to banditry."

WTF? Only a kiddie with undeveloped morality would buy that.

A bandit skin just says "murderer." Nothing complicated about it.

I hear you, and know what it takes to remove the skin. The humanity system is flawed, but mostly on the "self-defense" end. Didn't you earn the bandit skin you're wearing? Just wear it proudly, and go about your business. You're playing your role. Nobody forced you to get 50k humanity in the hole or whatever hellish number it is. How many did you shoot in the back?

Kinda reminds me of somebody earning $100 a week but gets himself $50k in debt.

Maybe like the killer who murders his parents, then asks the judge for mercy, because he's an orphan.

You say the "friendly" mentality is only good to people who are new. There are plenty of veterans who play friendly.

So that doesn't wash. You chose a different path. That's fine. We need bandits.

I get a kick out of some of the YT series.

Guy is supposedly playing a "hero," carrying an AS50 TWS. Says he's basically a "good guy."

Sees a survivor 400 yards ahead carrying an AK, going in the same general direction he is. Says - in a very sober and serious tone - something like "Now that guy is a clear danger to my mission. And very dangerous with an assault rifle."

His "mission." "very dangerous."

So he shoots the guy in the back. Ten minutes further on in the YT series he's wearing a ghillie. He's covering up his bandit skin. Or he server hops to regain a survivor skin.

Sometimes, if the vid shows him getting the skin for self-defense kills, he'll wear it a while, but not for long.

I've never seen such a bullshit fantasy world as in Dayz YT vids. Got no problem with bandits, and no real problem with bullshit. I just like to recognize both.

So you're a bandit. Tell Rocket you want an easier way out of your bandit skin. I won't complain. I like the humanity system assigning bandit skins. Already said that. Don't care if it's made a bit easier or harder to gain or remove it.

On private servers the admin can delete you and get rid of that bandit skin, so you can pal up with him and have him do that. Tell him to spawn in all the best gear for you too. That's what many Dayz YouTubers do.

Another option is buy a new game key. That'll remove your bandit skin for public and private hives.

But taking away your bandit skin won't change you. You already said that killing is all you get out of the game. So I guess you losing that skin will just give you a chance to get closer to survivors before you shoot them in the back or backstab them.

So why not just play bandit? You can still sneak up on survivors and shoot them in the back.

You'll get no argument from me. It's a perfectly valid role in Dayz.

This guy has fun NOT being a bandit, but still doing a lot of killing. He does say it's a lot of work finding bandits.

Only Dayz guy on YT I give any credence to. He also has a short series where he's pure bandit.

Does that well too, but says it's "too easy.

Anyway, there's a lot of options for bandits, and you can figure it out. I'm just saying I like the humanity system, and want it improved. If I ever choose to bandit I'll try to be the best damn bandit, and wear the skin proudly. Wouldn't worry at all about being taken for a bandit. It's my path. Would be a nice challenge to remove the skin if I wanted to do that.

I know some don't want the humanity system, but I think they are naïve in thinking that removing it would not turn Dayz into deathmatch. I think it would turn the game into a deathmatch, excepting players who avoid all stranger interaction. I might well be wrong. Just my opinion.

The only test would be to remove the humanity system. I really don't think that's going to happen.

But it might. It's not my game. I just play it. Might even play it if it goes deathmatch. Won't know unless that happens.

[thengeance 19]

Rewarding banditry or heroism at all, especially via killing bandits/heroes/survivors, is what leads to the deathmatch gameplay. Anyone who has played Origins knows what that type of reward/skin system brings. I hate playing with my pals who play Origins because there are no friendly encounters to be had.

I'm in line with the people who say that removing the skins for killing people is the best way to reduce the amount of KOS. People tend to mold their psyche to their role, and giving someone a towel and calling them "bandit" will only make them want to satisfy that role by proving their allegiance every time they encounter a player. We'll have clothes all over the place in SA, so just make some of these skins possible to find and wear regardless of how human one is. Maybe we can at least get some people to the point of ambiguity and make them think before they start popping off rounds at everything that moves.

[Vicco 123]

Rewarding banditry or heroism at all, especially via killing bandits/heroes/survivors, is what leads to the deathmatch gameplay. Anyone who has played Origins knows what that type of reward/skin system brings. I hate playing with my pals who play Origins because there are no friendly encounters to be had.

I'm in line with the people who say that removing the skins for killing people is the best way to reduce the amount of KOS. People tend to mold their psyche to their role, and giving someone a towel and calling them "bandit" will only make them want to satisfy that role by proving their allegiance every time they encounter a player. We'll have clothes all over the place in SA, so just make some of these skins possible to find and wear regardless of how human one is. Maybe we can at least get some people to the point of ambiguity and make them think before they start popping off rounds at everything that moves.

Not getting the logic of this at all. Punishing bandits and rewarding heroes is a natural part of "real" life.

Why should this game not try to reflect those human qualities?

Also don't understand why anybody above the age of 11-12 would let a bandit skin take over his personality.

Do you really believe that?

And why do you say players are "given" a bandit skin? Players EARN a bandit skin.

How many times do you have to hear posters saying they like to murder in the game before you accept that?

How many times do you have see players laughingly murder in YT vids?

That's why the game has murderers. Because people like to murder in the game.

The only defense against murderers if you want player interaction is identifying them.

This popped right up. I would have shot the bandit on sight, or used trickery if necessary.

Do you really think you can make that go away by removing skins?

Do you really think this guy won't be doing the same thing in the SA? Why not?

That's obviously how he gets his game kicks. And it's legit.

Your view will only make it more common.

If I were to play where NOBODY is identified as a murderer, I have to assume the EVERYBODY is a murderer,

and just KOS, death match style. Of course I won't play a game meant for 11-year-olds.

But the 11-year-olds, the guy above, and other murderers will. They're not going away. And I don't want them to go away. THEY are what makes the game work. It's not fucking around with zeds, gathering wood and Coca-Cola, or sitting by the campfire with pals that makes this game popular.

They'll have a real field day with you, unless you hermit out in the woods. You'll never even see the guy above coming for you.

That's the only thing removing skins will do. Make you an easy target.

[Invrlose 15]

If I'm being shot at by a bandit then what happens? Does my humanity go down? An admin spawned on me today and I pointed an m16 in his face and he teleported away lol.

[Vicco 123]

If I'm being shot at by a bandit then what happens? Does my humanity go down? An admin spawned on me today and I pointed an m16 in his face and he teleported away lol.

You lose humanity by shooting a survivor or hero. Shooting bandits doesn't cost humanity. You can actually gain humanity for killing a bandit.

I haven't checked the exact mechanics lately, pretty sure that if you are shot at and hit first, you don't lose humanity for killing whoever shot you.

The biggest weakness right now is "self-defense" shooting. Somebody shoots at you, but misses. You return fire and kill him. Enough of these incidents, and you're a bandit.

Take a look at this. Not overly complicated, but something you would test to get real numbers.

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Humanity