DayZ SA - Hosting & Security

[St. Jimmy 1631]

@RollingLizard1

Pay to get an advantage = Pay2Win

No matter if the game is free in any other way.

Pay for stuff what you very likely lose at some point that don't give you advantage doesn't sound good either and that has some WarZ vibrance. You can't buy clothes or any stuff that don't disappear because the game is "permadeath". But I've to admit that you could choose hair style and race because that's what you can do in RPGs but those shouldn't be under payment.

@Gummy52

I agree that if this game is going big then Bohemia really needs to consider about hosting some servers. I understand your point and I've been thinking the same earlier. Bohemia needs to be sure that the communication between the server and the main hive is very good but I believe we are testing that in alpha and beta very much so we'll see. One asshole admin can do things tricky if he/she can somehow get around the checking between the server and the main hive because in the worst case scenario he can get all the people banned from the game in his server.

[Hetstaine 10852]

I think a necessary point that people need to consider is that there are a limited number of ways to implement an online game and the model you choose has a list of weaknesses. It doesn't matter how many angles they consider or how many possibilities they consider. The model they choose will always have the same weaknesses. That's the point and that's why we don't need more information. We know the model they're choosing and therefore we know its weaknesses.

Now then, I absolutely agree that the developers are going to know the weaknesses of this model. I'm sure their lead programmer is a very capable man. But the developers are not always in charge and the intentions of men who wear suits are not as divine as one might hope.

Let's assume Bohemia is a company and their number one goal is profit. Now let's say you're Bohemia and you have thousands of people willing to pay hundreds of dollars per month to provide a service necessary for your product to function. Okay, so here you are, a suit working at Bohemia, and someone working under you raises a concern that cheating becomes easier under this model. What's the number one question you, this suit working at Bohemia, ask? You're going to ask "will that affect sales?".

Will it? Will more cheating affect sales? I post threads like these because I really, really dislike cheating. I want to play the game legitimately and want others to as well. But does anyone else share my concerns? When I read remarks such as "I think I'll take my chances with the hackers" by a representative of the DayZ consumer base, I can't help but feel that very few others seriously care about cheating. If it doesn't affect sales, then what reasons do they have to use a more secure model? I mean, look at DayZMod. Cheating is as easy as 1, 2, 3. It sold millions.

We can't just sit back and demand "we want less hacking". We need to be more specific and we need to demand that Bohemia host their own dedicated servers.

I would rather dedicated servers myself, no argument there, and i have never been one to put my faith in someone because of a suit. Dean and Matt do not come across as suits to me, i know you are talking higher up the chain but it appears that it is still their show atm. From what Dean has displayed since the beginning in being as open as he has i believe he has the cheating at the forefront of his mind, and is doing everything he and the team can to make it as bulletproof as possible. Thats enough for me and many others, i don't expect a miracle..and i certainly am not going to demand anything.

You generally come across as very cynical Gummy so hopefully you are in for a pleasant surprise. Hoping we all are.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I don't see it as pay to win, but the selling of virtual real estate, which is done in a number of online games. I see that building homes is available in some version of DayZ, My guess would be that all serious players would choose the subscription to get the cache thereby negating any advantage it would give a player. Leaving free play to players not really in to the game. I also play SecondLife where I pay a monthly fee, where I own virtual land, where I build, script and sell items. Where the money earned in game actually translates to real US currency and provides me with a nice income. I would be willing to pay a monthly fee for server use as long as there was something I was getting for my money as opposed to playing for free and as long as the benefit was the same for all players that paid the fee such as a cache I do not see it giving any individual an advantage over any other paying players. But still leave the play for free option as well.

Buying a place to store weapons in a permadeath game is pay to win. I'd pay a subscription but I wouldn't need a storage space to encourage me to.

[tsandrey 379]

There will be a lot of cheaters if DayZ only uses VAC. Maybe there will be no obvious cheats, but there will be a lot of ESP cheats and aimbots.

Edited June 26, 2013 by TSAndrey

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

There will be a lot of cheaters if DayZ only uses VAC. Maybe there will be no obvious cheats, but there will be a lot of ESP cheats and aimbots.

There are ways to limit what ESP users can see. I believe Rocket or Matt mentioned some solutions but I don't exactly recall when or where and I'd hate to put words in their mouths.

[tsandrey 379]

There are ways to limit what ESP users can see. I believe Rocket or Matt mentioned some solutions but I don't exactly recall when or where and I'd hate to put words in their mouths.

Cheaters will still find a way to make cheats. The game will soon become full of private cheats

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Cheaters will still find a way to make cheats. The game will soon become full of private cheats

yes, but restricting what data the player gets will limit esp. cheats and hacks will always exist, yup.

[tsandrey 379]

yes, but restricting what data the player gets will limit esp. cheats and hacks will always exist, yup.

As I said, cheaters will find a way to make some cheats, and once they do, nothing will stop them because VAC is shit. They will play with no fear of getting banned! Edited June 29, 2013 by TSAndrey

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

As I said, cheaters will find a way to make some cheats, and once they do, nothing will stop them because VAC is shit. They will play with no fear of getting banned!

and if they limit what info the client gets their esp wouldn't work for shit. I hope they're not relying purely on vac though.

[jovial 17]

I'll say this for microtransactions though, it doesn't have to be bad. There are some examples (actually I can only think of one, Path of Exile by Grinding Gear Games), where the devs have integrity and offer strictly cosmetic items and no pay2win. Who cares if you can buy some hats, hairstyles or such if it helps host official servers and keep the game going?

That being said, I also feel that microtransactions are as a previous poster said, "the sewage of modern gaming". For a quality game, I don't mind paying a subscription. I prefer it even, since that eliminates the risk of any kind of p2w completely. Because the norm when it comes to microtransactions is far from what I see in Path of Exile, far from only cosmetic options.

[Ken Kirk 0]

I actually find the hosting suggestions the most worrying thing about the SA. I've been looking forward to it for a long time but it seems this could be a real negative.

Even WarZ manages to host their own servers.

Maybe Bohemia could do 'premium' servers with a ~£5 monthly charge to access hosted by themselves where you'd know the server hasn't been compromised. I know I'd pay the fee.

[gummy52 57]

Frankly, anything is better than having the players host the servers. I fear that our concerns fall on deaf ears.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Why are you fearful or concerned when you've already stated you're not going to be buying it?

[gummy52 57]

That's a very silly statement. I'm not going to play it because of my concerns. If those concerns were removed, then I'd want to play it. I'm seeking what's best in the interest of the game so that it could be something I'd enjoy.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Cool, just wondered.

Probably best to wait for Beta at least then to see if your concerns are dealt with.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Fraggle

[BelMarduk 169]

ok, here's the thing. ALL the rampant 'cheating' and 'scripting' in the MOD 'technically' isn't cheating (hear me out before the flames shoot out your fingertips). ARMA II is all about the scripts. The MOD could not exist without ARMA II's ability to be scripted. Most if not all scripts (in the mod) are executed client side. Another way of putting it, DayZ MOD IS a script... That all being said, there will be ZERO scripting in the SA. That means ALL the 'hacking' in the MOD will be non existent. PERIOD. Second, MAIN HIVE will control entire economy. That means individual server owners/'hackers' will not be able to spawn in their own equipment PERIOD (and if the do, the main hive will act accordingly). That leaves us with maybe some meta gaming, server admins getting vehicle locations, player locations etc. There are countless way to mitigate this issue. As the saying goes 'A lock is there only to keep the honest thief honest'

[gummy52 57]

For those who are still interested in this topic, I made a post about my concerns on http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/

You can view that topic here,

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1hbiq1/it_is_critical_that_there_are_no_third_party/

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Yeah. use reddit. It's much easier to create additional accounts over there.

[tsandrey 379]

A central database will control loot spawns across all servers. Server admins won't be able to change loot

[gummy52 57]

True, and that means the central server tells the third party server what loot to spawn. Anything you tell a server, you're telling the person who owns the server. Are you comfortable with server admins having the ability to listen in on that information?

[BelMarduk 169]

True, and that means the central server tells the third party server what loot to spawn. Anything you tell a server, you're telling the person who owns the server. Are you comfortable with server admins having the ability to listen in on that information?

exactly what could server admins do with this info that would be nefarious? I mean really. Anyone and everyone could make very good assumptions of what that info is anyhow. After a few days of game play everyone is going to know what spawns where anyhow. I think you really need to take a xanax and relax. Your paranoia is quite unfounded.

[gummy52 57]

exactly what could server admins do with this info that would be nefarious? I mean really. Anyone and everyone could make very good assumptions of what that info is anyhow. After a few days of game play everyone is going to know what spawns where anyhow. I think you really need to take a xanax and relax. Your paranoia is quite unfounded.

What could they do with that info? That info is where to spawn loot. You tell me; what nefarious things could a server admin do if he peaked at where all of the loot is?

[BelMarduk 169]

What could they do with that info? That info is where to spawn loot. You tell me; what nefarious things could a server admin do if he peaked at where all of the loot is?

*facepalm*