Please Make Zeds WD style Lurchers in DayZ SA

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's been stated many times that the zombies in the E3 videos are nowhere near finished. i think you're being a bit too quick to judge.

And here's the quote AGAIN...

Rocket: "Basically, we made a new system for the zombie animation attacks, but there is no event handler for that yet because it just went in this week. We need the event handler to synchronize the animation with its attack effects. Currently, as a placeholder, it simply plays the effect half a second after the animation is started.

The event handler is scheduled to be finished any day now, which will allow us to sequence the attack. It's a very trivial change but will obviously instantly improve the output.

It has nothing to do with hit detection, animations, or anything. It's how it is designed a placeholder.

Because we are rewriting many parts of the engine, problems like this (i.e. known bugs waiting for replacement of placeholder elements) are very common through the development as we wait for the sequence of development to occur.

tl;dr

The zombie attacks aren't sequenced for the animations because its a new system thats 50% coded and waiting for event handlers to allow synchronization, which is trivial to implement once made."

I'm just posting that quote again because people seem to be jumping to a LOT of conclusions based on footage af a development build that improves daily and sometimes hourly.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Fraggle

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Personally I find slow infected/zombies/enemies in any game pretty pathetic really, even in large numbers. I feel the thing that MAKES these infected a threat/scary is the fact they ARE fast (disregarding their zig-zag movement for a moment).

If the infected were slow they might at well not be in the game. eg. You are in Electro wanting to loot the store, but there is a massive horde there. Simply get their attention to pull them away, loose them and return to a nice empty shop prime for looting. Obviously you will need to determine if there are bandits about, but I think you get my point

Then you would not mind every hit/scratch of them giving you infection with a chance of 100% as it is always supposed to be ?

[johnm81 15]

Personally I find slow infected/zombies/enemies in any game pretty pathetic really, even in large numbers. I feel the thing that MAKES these infected a threat/scary is the fact they ARE fast (disregarding their zig-zag movement for a moment).

If the infected were slow they might at well not be in the game. eg. You are in Electro wanting to loot the store, but there is a massive horde there. Simply get their attention to pull them away, loose them and return to a nice empty shop prime for looting. Obviously you will need to determine if there are bandits about, but I think you get my point

What if...

1. Zombies upon losing target return to their location (that building you want to loot)

2. OR, if the numbers are so great that pulling them anywhere would be dangerous because that 'anywhere' could have its own mob closing on you. This is how Zomboid does it and it works very well.

[johnm81 15]

It's been stated many times that the zombies in the E3 videos are nowhere near finished. i think you're being a bit too quick to judge.

As I already stated... I know this is alpha and all that comes with it...

[fluxley 2228]

Then you would not mind every hit/scratch of them giving you infection with a chance of 100% as it is always supposed to be ?

What do you mean by "supposed to be"? It seems you're stuck on the idea of traditional zombies that turn people into other zombies, thats not what we have here in dayz.

[johnm81 15]

And here's the quote AGAIN...

Rocket: "Basically, we made a new system for the zombie animation attacks, but there is no event handler for that yet because it just went in this week. We need the event handler to synchronize the animation with its attack effects. Currently, as a placeholder, it simply plays the effect half a second after the animation is started.

The event handler is scheduled to be finished any day now, which will allow us to sequence the attack. It's a very trivial change but will obviously instantly improve the output.

It has nothing to do with hit detection, animations, or anything. It's how it is designed a placeholder.

Because we are rewriting many parts of the engine, problems like this (i.e. known bugs waiting for replacement of placeholder elements) are very common through the development as we wait for the sequence of development to occur.

tl;dr

The zombie attacks aren't sequenced for the animations because its a new system thats 50% coded and waiting for event handlers to allow synchronization, which is trivial to implement once made."

I'm just posting that quote again because people seem to be jumping to a LOT of conclusions based on footage af a development build that improves daily and sometimes hourly.

My observations aren't related to linking the attack animation to the moment of damage taken. I am more referring to the disagreement between client and server of the position of the zed. When a Zed runs at the target, and then the client catches up and the Z's position suddenly changes. And yes I know its alpha and all that comes with that.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

What do you mean by "supposed to be"? It seems you're stuck on the idea of traditional zombies that turn people into other zombies, thats not what we have here in dayz.

Sorry mate but I personally find infected/zombies/enemies that cannot even give the infection to a human with a hit more pathetic than even slow zeds really..

Ya know.. They are more likely "Monsters" over being "Zombies" or "Infecteds" then..

Edited June 20, 2013 by SoulHunter

[fluxley 2228]

Sorry mate but I personally find infected/zombies/enemies that cannot even give the infection to a human with a hit more pathetic than even slow zeds really..

Ya know.. They are more likely "Monsters" over being "Zombies" or "Infecteds" then..

No one said anything about there being no chance to get "an" infection from being hit by zombies, they are after all covered in crap and bacteria.

You're post suggested that you wanted a single hit from a zombie to be a 100% chance to get the "zombie" virus did i interpret that wrong?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Fluxley

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

No one said anything about there being no chance to get "an" infection from being hit by zombies, they are after all covered in crap and bacteria.

You're post suggested that you wanted a single hit from a zombie to be a 100% chance to get the "zombie" virus did i interpret that wrong?

This conversation is going into something I do not think mods would endure to watch still. Therefore I'll be stopping arguing with this post cus there must have not been anything complicated in the first place.

I didn't say that there must be a chance to get infected by a zed. Regarding which your first sentence means literally no sense.

Your*

Re-read what I wrote. It is simple to understand as there is no need to talk about it more and more regarding that being just very and very simple and also said as "IMO". Im however assuming that you got me right. For you not to respond this message by seeing this message as a respond to your post up there^, lemme do the job for you, here is the quote of mine I was talking about;

Sorry mate but I personally find infected/zombies/enemies that cannot even give the infection to a human with a hit more pathetic than even slow zeds really..

PS:You may make a private conversation about this subject if you would see the need of doing that, or simply go on arguing on something which was meant to be an opinion here due to the convo having been made in public in this thread, which I'd not recommend cus of such a thing being able to be seen as "flame-war" or such.

Thanks

Much Regards

Edited June 20, 2013 by SoulHunter

[Boshed 29]

What if...

1. Zombies upon losing target return to their location (that building you want to loot)

2. OR, if the numbers are so great that pulling them anywhere would be dangerous because that 'anywhere' could have its own mob closing on you. This is how Zomboid does it and it works very well.

1. The fact they are slow will mean you should have a large window of oppertunity to grab what you need and get out of there before they return. This is a tactic used in many a game, not just this genre where there are slow things between you and your objective, whatever that might be, and a reason I'm not fond of slow infected/zombies as they are too easily outwhitted using simple tactics.

Howerver, fast or slow, they should prob look to return to their spawn location, else locations could find themselves empty of infected - easy pickings.

2. Aye, you could bump into other infected, but again as they are slow they aren't really going to get you, unless you actually run into their face, then it's really your own fault for not looking where you are going. It works differently in Zomboid cos you can't see very far, whereas in Dayz/Arma you will likely see them before they see you.

There isn't really going to be a consensus eitherway, as some people like slow and some like fast (TWD/28 Days Later), but at this point if there were to change to a completly differenty style of infected it would come as a big shock to everyone I would think

Edited June 20, 2013 by Boshed

[Boshed 29]

Then you would not mind every hit/scratch of them giving you infection with a chance of 100% as it is always supposed to be ?

You can get infected by them hitting you and many other 'actions' in the game - unless something major has changed recently (I know there has been a patch and hotfix). Getting infected with the lack of antibiotics has been one of the 'hot topics' recently so not really sure where you were going with this. However, I have read you posts since your reply and will understand if you don't want to continue in this discussion, just wanted to answer the question you posed to me on the back of my statement

Edited June 20, 2013 by Boshed

[fluxley 2228]

@Soulhunter

Sorry if i offended you but i was just asking for clarification on what you meant.

[Boshed 29]

People should think "I might really die if I will not be very careful" when they see a zed in the game.

Just reread your post and wanted to say I completly agree with this statement, but don't think making infected slow is the way forward.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Boshed

[gatorontheloose 29]

it's easy to go into the unsolicited suggestion zone, and I'm totally going there. :P

the infected are human, not un-dead. they are low on energy, obviously, from being infected. newly infected can run, but they tire and end up walking/crawling most of the time.

they should also scavenge items (empty cans generated from Z consumption), eat, drink, and team up with dozens of other infected, fight & kill each other, and swarm in numbers of 10-50 onto a target. I don't see why they shouldn't arm themselves either.

I'd love to have them endlessly swarm you at a walking pace. Even after breaking LOS, they just walk towards you in a swarm of 100+, through the woods, etc, walking for hours until their attention is diverted by another player or goal (eat, drink, etc.)

[zecele 211]

Wouldn't be able to add loads of zombies in hordes till the standalone as the performance hit would be too great.

[Jamz 253]

I think maybe it would be better if there was another mod called DayZombie to cover the slow moving classic zombie idea, perhaps... It obviously won't happen in DayZ, it seems like more of a 'what if' type thread to me.

[m_mitchell 27]

This too. I would personally prefer hard, dangerous zombies. I just don't think this is the way to do it. But a lot of people in the community whine and complain when they update the mod to make the zombies actually dangerous. So they just change it back. However I think the SA will rectify some of these problems.

How do you pretend to enjoy buggy zombies sprinting faster then you and knocking you down in the most annoying way possible to get repeatedly hit and be infected with almost no chance of being able to cure it? That's how it was and it's rather annoying how people defend it and get make everybody who downs it seem like they are a whiny bunch of kids. These would probably work a little better if they were done in a fashion where people already having to deal with being knocked out and eaten because of a zombie that hit them through a wall.

I think maybe it would be better if there was another mod called DayZombie to cover the slow moving classic zombie idea, perhaps... It obviously won't happen in DayZ, it seems like more of a 'what if' type thread to me.

Yeah I'm beginning to wonder myself. I think they should try an update slowing the zombies down to somewhere between running and walking to a slow jog while upping the infection rates to 50 - 95% but decrease the damage a zombie does to give it a more timely and slowly death. Edited June 21, 2013 by M_Mitchell

[TacticalN29 89]

How do you pretend to enjoy buggy zombies sprinting faster then you and knocking you down in the most annoying way possible to get repeatedly hit and be infected with almost no chance of being able to cure it? That's how it was and it's rather annoying how people defend it and get make everybody who downs it seem like they are a whiny bunch of kids. These would probably work a little better if they were done in a fashion where people already having to deal with being knocked out and eaten because of a zombie that hit them through a wall.

I'm not defending specifically how they did it. However it's happened before. The mod devs make the zombies very difficult and the community whines.

[m_mitchell 27]

I'm not defending specifically how they did it. However it's happened before. The mod devs make the zombies very difficult and the community whines.

For now I don't really support buffing the zombies until SA aside from maybe testing a few things because they are already difficult as it is :/ mainly bs things such as trying to sprint out and getting hit once to fall unconscious and get eaten. Just the other day I was walking backwards in the barracks and I got hit so my guy lunges in the opposite direction I was walking into the zombies to get pounded even falling unconscious and infected to top it all off.

[TacticalN29 89]

For now I don't really support buffing the zombies until SA aside from maybe testing a few things because they are already difficult as it is :/ mainly bs things such as trying to sprint out and getting hit once to fall unconscious and get eaten. Just the other day I was walking backwards in the barracks and I got hit so my guy lunges in the opposite direction I was walking into the zombies to get pounded even falling unconscious and infected to top it all off.

I don't really mind the stumbling and falling, only it happens way, way too often.

[johnm81 15]

1. The fact they are slow will mean you should have a large window of oppertunity to grab what you need and get out of there before they return. This is a tactic used in many a game, not just this genre where there are slow things between you and your objective, whatever that might be, and a reason I'm not fond of slow infected/zombies as they are too easily outwhitted using simple tactics.

Howerver, fast or slow, they should prob look to return to their spawn location, else locations could find themselves empty of infected - easy pickings.

2. Aye, you could bump into other infected, but again as they are slow they aren't really going to get you, unless you actually run into their face, then it's really your own fault for not looking where you are going. It works differently in Zomboid cos you can't see very far, whereas in Dayz/Arma you will likely see them before they see you.

There isn't really going to be a consensus eitherway, as some people like slow and some like fast (TWD/28 Days Later), but at this point if there were to change to a completly differenty style of infected it would come as a big shock to everyone I would think

 

Yes what you say is true, but I really don't see a problem with it. Running into a store to grab what you can in the X second window your buddy created by luring zombies away at risk of his life and limb from getting cornered AND encountering unfriendly human players will add a huge element of adrenaline pumping game play. Do you go into the other back room knowing the horde will be back soon? You have to make the risk vs reward decision that is at the core of a thrilling zombie survival game.

 

One other thing. Really think about the situation that both you and I are describing. It is a situation that requires team work. That is the essence of trying to break the KOS mentality that we have adopted. I don't want to see players give up KOS completely as that would ruin the feel of a apocalypse game as well, but in the scenario that you are describing you are painting a picture where players might find it more useful to team up to pull off maneuvers like you are saying.

[Boshed 29]

What I was describing is how much easier it would be to do solo, due to their slow movement. What you have described is already a tactic used by many groups of different sizes with the infected as they are now - NWAF being a good example. This tactic hasn't really made people anymore interested in teaming up from what I've encountered.

Changing them to lurches I would think would make solo play easier, though that maybe more to do with playstyle and tactics and prob many other factors.

I personally find the infected in Dayz a breath of fresh air compared to other zombie games on the market.

Also necro :p

[Boshed 29]

Sorry double post, damn phone

Edited October 16, 2013 by Boshed

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

This too. I would personally prefer hard, dangerous zombies. I just don't think this is the way to do it. But a lot of people in the community whine and complain when they update the mod to make the zombies actually dangerous. So they just change it back. However I think the SA will rectify some of these problems.

The problem with making zombies harder currently, is that it's primarily artificial difficulty, which is just frustrating.

 

Get hit by zombie! Oh no my legs, they broke!

That's harder, yes, but not in the best way.

___________

 

 

 

I'm a fan of walking zombies as well, but from my understanding, the "zombies" in DayZ aren't even zombies, but infected people...who for some reason can run like a trackstar. As said the zombies currently are a strain so no-go for the mod. However even if it was possible for the SA I don't think it'd be the best choice.

 

People expect the SA to have some similarities to the mod, and running "zombies" are part of that. They'll be more dangerous from what I know, in that they don't walk inside buildings, more infections, and more zombies. Let's see how that plays out before we decide that all those running animations need to be scrapped for shambling animations.

 

 

 

There's a game that aims to do what you're looking for, but (surprise) it's in alpha and there's not much to do in it right now. The goal is for infection and the environment to be your main threat, with the zombies being a constant threat forcing you to keep quiet or keep on the move.

 

It's called The Dead Linger and I'm sure you've heard of it if you look into proper zombie games, but it has a long way to go to be what everyone wants it to be.

Here's a link to the site. http://www.thedeadlinger.com/

It's also on Steam as an Early Access thing or something, I don't know what they call it because most of that is garbage but yeah.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Diggydug

[mercules 1290]

Sorry, there is Sci-Fi and then there is Science-Fantasy. "Proper Zombies" as you guys are calling them are Science-Fantasy zombies, undead beings that are brought back to life. The "Infected Zombies" of "28 Days Later" and "Quarentine" are Science Fiction zombies, in other words they are much more reasonable from a realistic point of view despite lacking the proper means to create them now. We are talking degrees of unrealistic here, but I, for one, prefer the more plausible zombies. It is the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars. One is plausible(in fact there is a theoretical warp drive design out there) and the other fantasy.


I hope they continue to use the more plausible "Infected" and not the silly "Undead".