I and Many other Demand Change!

[BAHADIR 124]

Okay its simple. We kill the Batman...

[Aporis 422]

Okay its simple. We kill the Batman...

Ok And how much do you want?

[jubeidok 495]

All I can think of when reading the topic header, didn't even read the post, is Homer Simpson running around bitch slapping people with a glove and saying, "I demand satisfaction!"

[Saethkept 134]

Well, OP players KoS first and foremost because DayZ is video game where most of the consequences present in our "real" lives for committing violent crimes against others do not exist. Still, there are a range of drawbacks for being a griefer. Namely, other people tend to tire rather quickly of that kind of behavior. Tough if you're just another player, but easily dealt with if it's your server the goofball is gooning around on.

Now, I must confess that when the concept of an online, open world, post apocalyptic zombie game was first realized, I envisioned groups of player survivors banding together to weather the pixel storm of a fallen society ... survival in numbers and new friends in the making. Unfortunately, my first experience with such a game was WarZ. Very quickly after purchasing and playing the Alpha back in October, I reached the conclusion that as long as a game mechanic exists which allows players to kill each other, they will - no matter what other rules or encouragements are implemented to dissuade such.

With DayZ, I found a better overall experience; less griefing in total and while still ever present the KoS'ers, not as wholly prevalent or annoying. In conclusion, Inception is correct; there's just no other answer or solution to your issue. As long as the mechanic for player killers exists, players will kill you and everyone else whenever they feel like it. No feature will change that.

The alternative ... well I've recently tried out a few PvE only servers and was quickly banned from several of them for - you guessed it - killing other players. Really, it's the nature of the beast.

[Aporis 422]

Well, OP players KoS first and foremost because DayZ is video game where most of the consequences present in our "real" lives for committing violent crimes against others do not exist. Still, there are a range of drawbacks for being a griefer. Namely, other people tend to tire rather quickly of that kind of behavior. Tough if you're just another player, but easily dealt with if it's your server the goofball is gooning around on.

Now, I must confess that when the concept of an online, open world, post apocalyptic zombie game was first realized, I envisioned groups of player survivors banding together to weather the pixel storm of a fallen society ... survival in numbers and new friends in the making. Unfortunately, my first experience with such a game was WarZ. Very quickly after purchasing and playing the Alpha back in October, I reached the conclusion that as long as a game mechanic exists which allows players to kill each other, they will - no matter what other rules or encouragements are implemented to dissuade such.

With DayZ, I found a better overall experience; less griefing in total and while still ever present the KoS'ers, not as wholly prevalent or annoying. In conclusion, Inception is correct; there's just no other answer or solution to your issue. As long as the mechanic for player killers exists, players will kill you and everyone else whenever they feel like it. No feature will change that.

The alternative ... well I've recently tried out a few PvE only servers and was quickly banned from several of them for - you guessed it - killing other players. Really, it's the nature of the beast.

I don't want the KoS to be fully removed but i would like that the numbers of players who do that because they kinda have to, to survive including me. What im after here is that we should find a some sort of a system that could reduce the number of player that do KoS, player interaction is much nicer and exciting rather than blasting someones brains out, unless you use M107 the Laser gun to do it :D

[Aporis 422]

Revamped totally the whole subject rather than just bragging about it i decided to actually do something about it, tell me what you think of it :)

[Jamz 253]

I'ts not just the lack of consequences that lead to KOS in game, there are also other factors to consider. The fact that it isn't real means there is no impact on your consience for instance, the natural intelligent human subconcious logic which stops people wanting to kill for no reason - It's within us to drive the continued propogation of the species.

Also, the lack of any persistant progression of 'change' in the environment - there is no need to consider your future beyond 'where is my next can of beans coming from' - in reality DayZ would be your world forever with no logging out, so you would want to make provisions for your future life, your 'endgame'.

Then there is the human instinct for self preservation, this drives people to group together for safety and usually avoid conflict and risking lives for no reason. There are exceptions but in reality the majority would prioritise survival over having fun shooting people.

There are also many other factors in game which remove humanity from players, such as anonymity, lack of physical and emotional fatigue etc.

In the context of video games, I read a good line in a post on here recently (I don't remember who said it) 'if you give a man a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail'. I think that sums it up and highlights that if players can in anyway harm other players in any video game or sim, then that is what will mostly happen.

I had an idea on how to perhaps reduce it a while ago but wasn't sure if it was really in keeping with the spirit of DayZ, now I'm not sure I care as I choose to work alone (If the situation were real I would try to find a likeminded group).

Edited June 18, 2013 by Jamz

[BarryManalow 1]

I'ts not just the lack of consequences that lead to KOS in game, there are also other factors to consider. The fact that it isn't real means there is no impact on your consience for instance, the natural intelligent human subconcious logic which stops people wanting to kill for no reason - It's within us to drive the continued propogation of the species.

Is not natural it is in fact learned behaviour. Not killing for no reason.

[EndEffeKt 87]

I am also a fan of the idea to give people some kind of character progression apart from gear, to make them more attatched to their character itself. Game-mechanic wise the character is just a puppet carrying arround gear at the moment. So if you are not a roleplaying-nature like me, you wont miss your character at all, if you can retrieve your gear. This leads to people starting a suicide-gunfight when I would start to rob someone I just approached from behind or set an ambush on.

I know that PvP is a core aspect of the game, but again I have to clarify that this is not the same as KoS. I am in for every feature of the game that gives people a reason to let other players live/ to play more creative than just shooting others over cod-style.

A little incident to clarify this: I was a freshspawn and looted the firestation in Elektro. Found a M1014. Nice :) I was just leaving the building and head towards the office, when I heard heavy-weapon fire and dropped to the ground dead. Bandit shot me in the back with a DMR from the hills. When I was asking "Did you find anything useful? -.-" He replied: "Didnt bother to check lol. Come and get your gear back."

This is not only KoS, but just plain stupid and I hate it.

[Jamz 253]

Is not natural it is in fact learned behaviour. Not killing for no reason.

I disagree. Not killing for no reason, at least in most of us, Is a preset part of what makes a human being. It drives the human races' survival, or we would be a (very small) race of psychopathic murderers.

Sometimes some of us can find reasons to justify killing, however.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Something like this would make me KOS more so i don't fall victim to some senseless act in Cherno firehouse.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Something like this would make me KOS more so i don't fall victim to some senseless act in Cherno firehouse.

I'm afraid you've lost me there. Why does killing on sight affect the likelihood of some random guy with an AK opening fire in Cherno?

I don't have a problem with KoS players - I don't play that way myself, and I feel like they're missing out on a big part of what makes DayZ what it is, but it's their experience, and they're free to play as they choose.

What does annoy me is when they try and justify it by saying 'well I only play KoS because everyone else does and it's me or them' - bullshit. Yes, there will be times occasionally when firing the first shot is a sensible move, but those are generally pretty rare. I have fired the first shot exactly twice, both were at Stary - one was a misunderstanding, and the other was at a guy lurking near the military tents in a ghille with a large rifle.

I've been shot at unprovoked more than a few times, I've had some pretty tense standoffs a few times, and I've made a temporary ally a few times as well. Yet still I don't feel that I HAVE to shoot first to ensure my survival.

You do not HAVE to shoot first to ensure your survival when meeting other players - if you choose to do so, that's cool, and it's your decision to do so. Just don't make out that you've been forced to do it by other players, because it's a limp excuse, plain and simple.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Ok firstly I don't have a problem with pvp, when players meet and start a standoff of firefight, it's intense and fun

But KOS is different

All of these stories are from the 1.7.7 update from recently and made zero sense

I'm in electro supermarket and a guy says he can see me and asks for blood

He comes I , I have a pistol and he has an m4

I give him a transfusion and then he shoots me

Nothing new there, he was clearly a douche

Story 2

There's 2 guys in the pub in cherno, they have wasted all their Enfield ammo and are being swarmed

I throw smokes, and draw off the zombies with my Winchester, we head to the medical tents and I bloodbag them while they hold off the zombies

They grab an ak and turn and shoot me, a few minutes later their names come up and I find the zombies killed them and for a good hour they keep raging about how the zombies keep killing them, well maybe if you weren't shooting people all the time you might live longer

Story 3

Guy getting swarmed in berezino behind hospital and I'm on top, his legs break and I take out a good 10+ zombies with my Enfield

He starts crawling towards the ladder and I tell him to come up, when he gets up the too he opens fire with his ak and input ak and I put him down

I ask him on side what the hell was the point? I was going to bloodbag him and I quote:

"I wanted a kill"

So basically players value killing over their own life, which is stupid, at least some of them had t decency to let me heal them before shooting me

And I've even seen bandits stand in the street firing at me and being killed by zombies only to die over and over and keep coming back and going on a killing spree in one town for hours

Some people have zero imagination

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Ok firstly I don't have a problem with pvp, when players meet and start a standoff of firefight, it's intense and fun

But KOS is different

All of these stories are from the 1.7.7 update from recently and made zero sense

I'm in electro supermarket and a guy says he can see me and asks for blood

He comes I , I have a pistol and he has an m4

I give him a transfusion and then he shoots me

Nothing new there, he was clearly a douche

Story 2

There's 2 guys in the pub in cherno, they have wasted all their Enfield ammo and are being swarmed

I throw smokes, and draw off the zombies with my Winchester, we head to the medical tents and I bloodbag them while they hold off the zombies

They grab an ak and turn and shoot me, a few minutes later their names come up and I find the zombies killed them and for a good hour they keep raging about how the zombies keep killing them, well maybe if you weren't shooting people all the time you might live longer

Story 3

Guy getting swarmed in berezino behind hospital and I'm on top, his legs break and I take out a good 10+ zombies with my Enfield

He starts crawling towards the ladder and I tell him to come up, when he gets up the too he opens fire with his ak and input ak and I put him down

I ask him on side what the hell was the point? I was going to bloodbag him and I quote:

"I wanted a kill"

So basically players value killing over their own life, which is stupid, at least some of them had t decency to let me heal them before shooting me

And I've even seen bandits stand in the street firing at me and being killed by zombies only to die over and over and keep coming back and going on a killing spree in one town for hours

Some people have zero imagination

Interesting you raise that point, as I've just seen the exact same thing. I was crawling through a small village with only some very basic gear (double-barrel shotgun with no ammo, a can of coke and a water bottle) and out of nowhere a CZ550 shot rang out and pinged into the ground next to me. Not stopping to laugh at how bad a shot the guy must have been to miss a crawling target from that range, I got up and ran like hell, zig-zagging and generally doing my best to shake him. I could hear aggro behind me and figured I'd be okay, as he'd have to lose them or risk losing his gear.

But he kept on shooting. He managed to get a lucky shot in and broke my legs, so I turned to look, and there he was, swarmed by zeds, taking aim at me to finish me off. Not two minutes later, he was dead. I just don't understand the logic in that - he clearly had far more to lose by taking the kill - heck, my legs were broken, he could have just run off, lost them nearby and come back to finish me off.

I think it's an unfortunate side-effect of the game becoming as popular as it is that has resulted in it attracting those who have no interest in playing it 'in the spirit' of the game, and are simply out to kill as many people as they can. Even more unfortunate is that there's nothing we can do about that.

[badclown 6]

hi there!

I started to play the mod when it was pretty new. I still experienced teamwork and helping each other.. then came a time when people started to KoS without any reason. Then the hacker came and the game died for me personally. As many said before, Day Z is special because it gives us a tension when we meet another player.. what will he do.. will he trade or attack ?

When you can expect other players are attacking 99% of the time there is no point in playing Day Z. There are better shooters out there or you can play Arma 3 wasteland. Day Z is dead with this KoS aspect. Just leaving the CoD kids and hackers behind. Todays servers with 500 vehicles and guns show that. Thats not a game I want to play.

BUT I just tried 1.7.7 and have 2 stories for you:

1. I was followed by Zs and was runnung into a building killing one after the other at the entrance.. as I was done I turned around and there was another player, he must have watched me for a while. He didnt attack.. we both saluted and went on doing our thing. I was suprised.

2. I met a guy in a barn.. the long hallway kind of barn. He came closer.. I backed off.. he came closer.. I backed off and stopped, decided to attack if he came into the range of my machete. I heard him cough and he asked if I had antibiotica. I just had 1, but for the sake of the old Day Z spirit I told him: Ok wanna trade ? .. he gave me soda and I gave him antibiotics. Not a good deal.. but the point is, he thanked me, telling me I saved his live.. and left. No attack,, no stabbing me in the back. Im sure he would have killed me if I wouldnt have been careful.. or if he would have a gun.. but in the end I thought this meeting was much cooler than a simple KoS meeting.

I just hope standalone is able to revive the spirit of the old days. We need bandits sure.. but if everyone is a bandit its just a simple shooter. Nothing special about it. There are shooters out there with better graphics and better gameplay. I want the survival aspect and the interaction with other players.

[Aporis 422]

hi there!

I started to play the mod when it was pretty new. I still experienced teamwork and helping each other.. then came a time when people started to KoS without any reason. Then the hacker came and the game died for me personally. As many said before, Day Z is special because it gives us a tension when we meet another player.. what will he do.. will he trade or attack ?

When you can expect other players are attacking 99% of the time there is no point in playing Day Z. There are better shooters out there or you can play Arma 3 wasteland. Day Z is dead with this KoS aspect. Just leaving the CoD kids and hackers behind. Todays servers with 500 vehicles and guns show that. Thats not a game I want to play.

BUT I just tried 1.7.7 and have 2 stories for you:

1. I was followed by Zs and was runnung into a building killing one after the other at the entrance.. as I was done I turned around and there was another player, he must have watched me for a while. He didnt attack.. we both saluted and went on doing our thing. I was suprised.

2. I met a guy in a barn.. the long hallway kind of barn. He came closer.. I backed off.. he came closer.. I backed off and stopped, decided to attack if he came into the range of my machete. I heard him cough and he asked if I had antibiotica. I just had 1, but for the sake of the old Day Z spirit I told him: Ok wanna trade ? .. he gave me soda and I gave him antibiotics. Not a good deal.. but the point is, he thanked me, telling me I saved his live.. and left. No attack,, no stabbing me in the back. Im sure he would have killed me if I wouldnt have been careful.. or if he would have a gun.. but in the end I thought this meeting was much cooler than a simple KoS meeting.

I just hope standalone is able to revive the spirit of the old days. We need bandits sure.. but if everyone is a bandit its just a simple shooter. Nothing special about it. There are shooters out there with better graphics and better gameplay. I want the survival aspect and the interaction with other players.

Full of Facts and 1-2 both must have been awesome experiences i higly agree that only the player base can fully change the fact that this will no longer be just a shooter. Beans for you!

[Wep0n 532]

rocket said he is going to give players tools to deal with bandits. small things like bloody hands after looting, a different facial expression and such are all going to help people indentify people.

being friendly is actually a nice challenge, and that's good.

being pure from evil is going to make most survivors like you. i personally never kill heroes because i KNOW they dont kill people, they are good hardened veterans getting the praise they deserve for living such a difficult life.

(of course in SA, there will not be a clear distinction between bandits and heroes, but there will be hints)

[Ken Bean 174]

KoS...

Killing on Sight is so common these days with the private hives, normal survivors are an equivalent of a Bandit these days, even some Hero guys kill on sight to stay alive, because everyone has the same idea, if i dont shoot him first hes gonna shoot me.

I totally revamped the subject.

So I maybe have come up with a solution, that may reduce killing on sight. And is desrcibed below.

How are we supposed to solve the problem of KoS?

By reducing it! But how? By making people to care more about their characters. By actually making people more willing to survive

On Standalone one way to make people more willing to survive is to actually get some reward from it. possibly you could use better equipment, be a bit harder to be spotted by the zombies as you have learned how to sneak better, can withstand thrist and hunger better and maybe withstand lower blood levels better so you wont pass out so easily as your body has already kinda got use to the low amount of blood.

Maybe you would not get exhausted so easily when you sprint or run long distances and witch results into bit more steadier aim. These are things that would maybe add peoples willingness to survive Days, maybe weeks of ingame time but these are not too OP benefits, just making the survival a bit more easier like in Real life, you get used to it, you learn to adapt.

Witch could lead that alot more people would be more willing to cooperate as they both benefit from it.

And the game is both PVP-PVE, how awesome would it be a massive clash of servers bandits vs Survivors and Heroes. How to get these small benefits is by surviving Day at a Time.

As a side note, contrary to the KoS thing because "I don't want to loose my gear" many player claim that they couldn't care less about their gear. Two things which don't fit very well together, one may figure. ^^

But yes, a charackter development system could help.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Bandit_KillerTrueHero 0]

but anyway - if people will start to speak with other there is lot more chance to avoid KOS. If no one speaks than you can not really understand situation and what might happen next. People are scared from strangers.

of course there is "friendlies" who will shoot you in back - but these are just bad people.

all of this is true i go by frankie's rules if they don't talk there 90% chance of KOS if they talk and there not already a bandit then there's a 75% chance of them to not try and kill you but alot of the time its all bout loot if you have decent gear and say a dmr you will less likely shoot someone as a survivor or hero but if you have just spawned and you see someone with an ak47 you will more likely kill them think back to the days of cherno when you did not span with a pistol if you where to see someone you would team up now with almost all servers have makrovs to start.

I also have an idea i'm trying to put together which is getting a squad together of heroes and hero like survivors to hunt down and kill bandits which should stop spawn killing a bit more which in turn players will trust a bit more . if you want in check out my topic tagged in (hero)

[boatie 34]

rocket said he is going to give players tools to deal with bandits. small things like bloody hands after looting, a different facial expression and such are all going to help people indentify people.

being friendly is actually a nice challenge, and that's good.

being pure from evil is going to make most survivors like you. i personally never kill heroes because i KNOW they dont kill people, they are good hardened veterans getting the praise they deserve for living such a difficult life.

(of course in SA, there will not be a clear distinction between bandits and heroes, but there will be hints)

So having a turban on your head didnt help identify bandits? And as if that helped with current bandits, lol.

[zfleming12 395]

I'm sorry but I am not part of the many others that demand this nor do I like people speaking for me.

KOS, is just like kids bein in the game screaming in chat. It will never change.

[broguenz 333]

'Some men just want to watch the world Burn'

[R.J. 70]

Tools to deal with Bandits?

I guess removing the AS50 and M107 wasn't enough to stem the plethora of whining.

[Sutinen 635]

Did you say something about a witch that could brainwash people to co-op gameplay? Sounds good.