1.7.* Infection WIP Update

[CoolCain10 55]

I believe alcohol adds a whole new element to the game, we can get drunk and then get a hacker to make us dance!

[dukstuf 24]

So, we all agree that the new infection rules makes it impossible for a newbie to successfully survive, even if he is careful. He has to gather food, before he actually has any. He can't hunt, unless he has a knife and matches and hatchet....and he won't be doing any of that, because he will get infected, and die, within an hour, with little chance of finding antibiotics successfully.What's the POINT of making things IMPOSSIBLE?

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Well ...

I believe this could be easily fixed by adding one antibiotic at the start instead of flare. This way, they can leave antibiotics at low % chance to spawn and Survivors have more chances to survive, loot for weapon and find them ...

[fluxley 2228]

So, we all agree that the new infection rules makes it impossible for a newbie to successfully survive, even if he is careful. He has to gather food, before he actually has any. He can't hunt, unless he has a knife and matches and hatchet....and he won't be doing any of that, because he will get infected, and die, within an hour, with little chance of finding antibiotics successfully.What's the POINT of making things IMPOSSIBLE?

No, we dont all agree that its impossible.

[Vicco 123]

So, we all agree that the new infection rules makes it impossible for a newbie to successfully survive, even if he is careful. He has to gather food, before he actually has any. He can't hunt, unless he has a knife and matches and hatchet....and he won't be doing any of that, because he will get infected, and die, within an hour, with little chance of finding antibiotics successfully.What's the POINT of making things IMPOSSIBLE?

Not impossible, but the game now takes too much patience for many people, and the "luck" element plays a much larger role. I've got almost 30 hours solo on vanilla servers since 1.7.7.1 - only because I'm patient and take up the challenge - and still haven't found an anti-biotic.

And yes, I look everywhere. I've even done the night-time heli crashes as another player mentioned. Three heli crashes with med boxes/supplies on the ground around them. No AB's.

Oh, I'll find them when my luck changes. I suspect many noobs will just walk away from the game.

Marion Mic made an excellent suggestion - one AB with the loadout.

That will encourage a noob to play on and fight the fight.

[Dagwood 680]

Died a few times yesterday and finally got a cherno spawn and was geared in 45 minutes checking all the usual spots. And mind you this was on a vanilla private hive (US 420 come check it out). What am I missing?

[reidloS doG 38]

Died a few times yesterday and finally got a cherno spawn and was geared in 45 minutes checking all the usual spots. And mind you this was on a vanilla private hive (US 420 come check it out). What am I missing?

Getting infected in the NWA.

[gangrenetvp 74]

Several Things...

First of the whole blood mechanic needs to be slightly revised... There should be a blood rate which is constantly changing the blood level. This blood rate should take many variables into account and apply them all on top of one another. People naturally heal... I'm cut, I scab, I heal... So I think that blood should go up 5 units every minute given everything is good and okay... So in 10 hours of play you can regain your 3,000 health(300 an hour)... and add in the temporary effects of eating... even more, seems fair and realistic. If a zombie hit takes you down 1,200 blood(plus bleeding), then you have to play 4 hours without a SINGLE hit, just to stay even. Seems challenging enough. Given 40 hours of play a player could completely heal with a lack of damage, hunger, thirst, bleeding, sickness, etc... You could add items like creams to give a small bonus to your natural healing.

Right now the sickness is OUT OF CONTROL. It’s at the point where it IS taking the fun out of the game. You get sick and die very quickly… A friend and I had a vehicle and we went to 3 hospitals, we were both sick because, it is VERY easy to get sick. We found almost no supplies and we both died, and quickly… If someone gets sick now, the chances of them getting well are slim to none and it’s a matter of gathering meat, just so they can just hang on. Frankly, it’s just better for them to suicide with some more zombie hits and respawn at the coast because playing sick right now isn’t any fun. If you had a chance for survival it would be a fun adventure. It is none of that now.

I feel that sickness should take 10-20 hours to kill someone in game time... So if sickness had a -25 a minute effect plus your natural healing... that's a net effect of -20 a minute... which equates to -1200 an hour and your dead in 10 hours, if you don’t get injured, hungry, thirsty, etc… That is a long, but fair amount of time to run around the map and look for very rare antibiotics… I also think that a combination of items should be able to slow the infection, for example chicken leg + boiled water + tent rest reduces the sickness rate to -15, doubling your time for a 1-2 hours. Being able to lower the chances of sickness via a combination of a bandage + alcohol + fire + knife… to burn out and clean the wound within an hour of being bit, I think, would be a great addition.

The real issue is eating then, as food could substantially counter -1200 an hour via sickness... Blood amounts for food would have to be altered and the quantity of food that can be eaten would also have to be drastically reduced to a realistic amount of about 1-2 food items per hour... For example, eating a can of food may positively effect your blood rate by +10 for 10 minutes, essentially giving you 100 blood, but that does not cancel out the sickness as your net rate of Natural Healing(+5) + Sickness(-25) + Can Food (+10) = -10 a minute… and after the 10 minutes you’ll be at -20 again and can’t eat for another 20 minutes… twice an hour eating limit. So selecting a choice item is critical(meat vs. a can)... animal spawning should be more rare. Also the rate of hunger should be 4-8 hours and like 3 hours to drink with running changing that drastically. Need to get a swig from the canteen every 15-20 minutes while running full bore. A canteen could also have 3-4 drinks like a clip has rounds. Keep in mind that water has to be boiled. Food and drink could be made rarer if you didn’t have to eat or drink as often. Hunger and thirst would also lower your blood rate… Maybe -30 a minute for water and -15 for hunger. Sick, hungry, and thirsty would then be a nasty combination! Dead in just a few hours.

BTW, having food give you between +10 and +30 a minute for 10 minutes is more realistic than getting 600 blood instantly… Eating food during a fire fight would be less like a health potion then.

Bleeding, also, could be more realistic and the same with bandages... do you patch up a deep 6 inch would with 1 simple bandaid? To make it more realistic you could have several layers to bleeding. Minor Bleeding = -200 blood a minute(1 hour death time), Moderate Bleeding -400 Blood(30 minute bleed out), Severe Bleeding -800 (15 minute bleed out), Critical Bleeding -1600 (7.5 minute bleed out). There could be another level beyond critical bleeding.... and each bandage takes you down one level... So, if you are critically bleeding you'll have to take the time to apply 4 bandages, if you have that many, and take all of that blood loss before you stop bleeding. If a zombie grazes you, you’re not going to bleed out from that, seriously… minor bleeding seems most likely… if you have a few munching on you, you could quickly ramp up to critical bleeding… a gun shot, depending on where you’re hit could do any of those levels of bleeding + the initial damage. I think that system would more accurately reflect reality.

A second important thing would be to make every action in the game a combination of items, JUST LIKE COOKING MEAT. You have to have an axe to get wood, matches to light a fire, a knife to gut, and should need a gun to kill an animal(they should run faster than us, and be scared off easily). Also, there should not be special slots for certain items, just various item sizes(Qty. of slots). What does all of that mean? It means to do various tasks, bandaging, healing sickness, creating a weapon, making food, boiling water, sterilizing wounds,  etc… You have to carry around a BUNCH of stuff… having limited inventory and many items needed means making decisions about what you are going to be able to do and not do… and builds up the team idea… To be able to do everything, you NEED to team up. One guy can’t carry a rifle because he’s got an axe(and a pistol)… This guy can’t carry a lot of food because he has a LOT of bandages(medic) because each wound could need 4-5 of them… plus blood transfusions and other stuff to sterilize wounds. So you might have a chef, 2 soldiers, and a medic all in one group because they NEED one another.

Just to reinforce what I just said… a bandage should take up the same inventory slots, as a coke can, as a pistol clip, as a map, as a compass, as a gun, etc… Make them all take the same slots so players have to make tough choices… I don’t want to say… oh sure, take the bandages because I have pistol clip slots open… I should be saying to take those 4 bandages, I’ll have to remove one of my Cokes from the bag… hhhmmm, what should I do?

[phL (DayZ) 63]

my thoughts on the infection thing...

 

is there one zombie movie where it takes more than one bite/scratch (fluid exchange) to get infected? i know they are supposed to not be zombies but... yea. that is what makes them scary.

 

if this is the zombie apocalypse your biggest worry would/should be not to get infected.

 

 

...and what i'd like to see in a sandbox-zombie-apocalypse game:

 

 

hard and scary "zombies". like if you get spotted in a big city and the horde is chasing you, 2 out of 3 times you end up dead.

only with good brains and/or weapons you would be able to survive a massive horde of zombies. because they would be pretty stupid but also fast. faster than you.

and they would not make a break when they come close to you to let you get ahead again.

 

 

ammo and good weapons are very very rare and you would save every bullet.

if you spot another survivor you should be able to benefit from working together in many different ways. no violation of the sandbox concept though.

 

if you are infected i would like to have a very complex system of fighting the infection.

e.g. for the best chances of surviving it you need

 

-warmth, no rain/cover, not hungry/thirsty, antibiotics, bandage, some pills, a buddy who gives you some kind of transfusion, and many more things.... this results in 99.9% chance of cure.

 

you could lack any of the above which would decrease your healing chances.

 

e.g. you are not hungry/thirsty and you are warm -> 20% cance of cure. in addition you have now bandaged your wound -> 30% chance

 

you have found a better bandage, remove old one, apply new -> 32% chance. and so on... it would be a process of fighting the infection.

 

 

 

what i like very much atm is the number of zombies influencing the chance of infection. that adds a lot to my "fear of the horde".

but i'm not sure if or how it's implemented... i just assume it is for my pleasure :D

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

I look forward to changes in this. More than once have I been doing so well, only to be in a place like Lapatino and round a corner only to meet an infectious Hyneman.

It seems no matter how careful I am, it's the one hit that does get me, in the worst of circumstances, that ruins it all.

 

I was under the impression that we were immune to the virus that took out the Chernarus population, but I could be wrong, and perhaps that's not what is infecting me when I get hit, as the zombies aren't very sanitary, but last I checked I have ample time in real life to clean a wound before I actually succumb to any form of sickness.

If it is a virus that is infecting us, how is it that antibiotics are taking care of that as well? With the "viral zombies" out there, I'm under the impression that it's a virus infecting us that we cure with antibiotics. 

 

Vanilla is my preferred way to play DayZ, but the infection rate makes it downright frustrating.

_________________

 

Just a scenario of how this is more of a chore than an interesting gameplay element.

 

My friends and I will be at Devil's Castle after a long run from the coast. We've avoided people, killed a dirty bandit, and had laughs along the way. We're careful entering and find a few useful things lying around and we take them. As we leave to head to NWAF one of us is hit, and that single hit immediately changes everything and spells doom for he who was infected. Only a couple of times have I managed to find antibiotics where they should be.

Generally I just say "Fuck it" and kill myself instead of wasting time, or I make a mad dash to the coast and die where I can easily obtain my gear. 

 

Maybe I'm late to the party but I felt I'd say what I thought still.

[bfisher 561]

After many dayz, I got infected at the factory west of Polana.  With an ALICE pack full of cow meat and DMR mags for my M14 AIM, I should have just enough time to run to Electro and just start killing people until the inevitable happens.  Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have antibiotics. 

[oldfossil 59]

I got a bad infection some day ago near Zub castle so, after an unsuccessful quest for some antibiotic, I decided to go to die in a known place (it was quite difficult to determine the exact place on the map because the blurry vision of the terminal infection phase) just to have the opportunity to get back my equipment after respawn...I was lucky, I respawned about 4 km away from the place where I died. All in all I like the actual infection pattern, I think it represents the ideal sickness growing up, as I saw in my favourite Z movies.

[BigChef 55]

I got infected last night without being hit! The viral zed was charging and I dropped him at least two meters from me but still got the infection. I'm cool with the infection deal but I think it's a bit over the top.

[ratava 1]

Forgive me if this is well trodden ground.  My rudimentary searching on the forum did not find this information.

 

On my private server I just found a medical box at a heli crash site.  There were no antibiotics in it.  It seems that Medical Boxes are still in the game, they don't contain antibiotics anymore.

 

-R.

[fluxley 2228]

Forgive me if this is well trodden ground.  My rudimentary searching on the forum did not find this information.

 

On my private server I just found a medical box at a heli crash site.  There were no antibiotics in it.  It seems that Medical Boxes are still in the game, they don't contain antibiotics anymore.

 

-R.

 

They never have contained antibiotics, but they will in the next patch.

[ratava 1]

They never have contained antibiotics, but they will in the next patch.

 

My bad.  I could have sworn that the medical boxes I was running across in 1.6 had antibiotics in em.  We sure had pleanty of them then "hey what are these for"???

Edited August 4, 2013 by ratava

[Navneeth 3]

 

is there one zombie movie where it takes more than one bite/scratch (fluid exchange) to get infected? i know they are supposed to not be zombies but... yea. that is what makes them scary.

I can't think of a particular movie. But The Last of Us on PS3 has a pretty fair (and realistic-ish) mechanic. Zombie bites infect you; not zombie blows or scratches. And in realistic terms, it's hard for a human to simply bite you. Human teeth (and zombie decayed half fallen teeth too) are not meant to be used as primary weapons. If a human/zombie tries to bite you, you simply bash his skull with your real weapon; your fist. So the zombies in that game try to beat you down first before biting. That's essentially how it works in this game too, so i don't get why infection MUST come from every 5 blows.

 

P.S. In most zombie movies, the protagonists aren't immune to the zombie infection as they are in DayZ. In hardly any zombie movies does a couple of zombie punches result in a full-fledged (ordinary) bacterial infection that kills you in little more than an hour.

[phillyjoker 10]

Actually a lot of zombie movies/tv shows do show that any attack that breaks the skin will infect the protagonist. The Walking Dead, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead, Resident Evil, Dawn of the Dead... (That's why i never can understand why these guys don't use some sort of make shift body armor!) But, all of them show that the sickness takes a long time to kill, sometimes in excess of a week, but more often then not it's 2 - 3 days. However, from what I can tell Dean has the virus based of 28 weeks/days later and World War Z in which the turn is much quicker. Personally i'd prefer a more delayed approach. 

 

Although to be quite honest, once the pathing issues are fixed with Zed's (not so glitchy and twitchy) it will be much easier to avoid them anyways so it shouldn't really matter.

[entspeak 374]

My feeling on zombie infection is that it is not a good gameplay mechanic. I understand the intent, but after playing through a few times... particularly as a lone wolf, the game basically becomes deer hunter (or in this case, cow, sheep, goat, chicken, rabbit hunter) once you're infected. I've survived for several hours with an infection, but the game is just not enjoyable at that point. And, considering the inherent glitchiness of zeds, the only option is to avoid melee with them entirely... which means you need a silent ranged weapon of some sort. And, most importantly, apparently, you don't get THE infection, so, I don't really get what the storytelling is there. I'm not saying that we SHOULD turn into zeds when infected, I'm saying zeds shouldn't cause infection. Weather should make you sick... drinking bad water should make you sick.

If you really want to bring the survival aspects more to the fore, dump bloodbags and heat packs, fix the player heat system, and make it a little colder. This will make players think twice about engaging other players, will increase interaction because everyone will have to hunt, and they'll have to be very careful where and how long they stay in one place because of the need to build fires, use vehicles or get in buildings to keep warm.

This puts the player's health more under their control and not subject to a glitchy zed. Zeds may always be glitchy and to some extent we just have to deal with that, but why emphasize that glitchiness by attaching infection to it?

Yes, infection by zeds makes it harder to survive, just not in a very interesting way, IMO. There are so many other ways to make it harder to survive that are also very interesting and add to the multiplayer gameplay.

Just my two cents. There are so many aspects of this mod that I love and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

Edited August 8, 2013 by entspeak

[JIJOK 49]

infection idea is good but but need be properly added , because once infected you are blood-waster-machine , got infected on cherno run until berezinho from hospital to shopping to granery ( looking wood ) just eating cans it adds blood even infected , also with meat and dont need be cocked you are inmune to become more infected , blood bag transfusion is also safe since you just get 1 infecion. So I wasted 6 bloodbags, 10 cans, 3 raw meat and 5 cocked meat until get antibiotics. Worst vision, more bleeding if bleeding, less blood+ for cans or food, and just die after some time even with 12.000 blood. Thats my what I think, also 1 antibiotic use same space that tank trap kit :|   

[BigChef 55]

I've been searching unsuccessfully for anit-biotics for five days now, it's getting tiresome. I'm not infected or surely I would have died by now, however my entire focus has been the pursuit of anti-biotics and it's changed my gameplay and not IMO for the better. i do believe that this infection issue may well slow if not halt the amount of new players staying with DayZ as it's difficult enough in the beginning to stay alive for even a few days, now how long will noobs last?

[rn_max 202]

The short time span lethal infection is a dull, clumsy and not very entertaining feature of DayZ.  It doesn't make the game more difficult, just tiresome and repetitive.  Quite often the most entertaining and quickest solution is either to have a friend kill you, or if alone, to gather a horde of zeds and let them beat you to death in the location of your choosing.

 

The solution that springs to mind?  Make the infection passed by zeds the same as the dirty water / uncooked food infection from before 1.7.7 with the drain to 3000 blood.

 

 

A more plausible infection ...

 

- Generally hygiene based and is the same from several sources, which would fit with zeds, some polluted water sources and some uncooked animal flesh carrying it.

Zeds die in some water sources, some animals drink from them and become tainted meat, players collect water from wherever they can ... etcetera.  Why not make it relatively infectious between players, introducing a double whammy threat of contagion and subsequent exile from groups?

 

- Makes players ill over time to a low blood level rather than being directly lethal in an hour.

Far more elegant and less obvious, because having low blood until cured makes everything else more lethal anyway.  A big zed hit, a pistol shot, an otherwise minor bicycle crash, they all become deadly. Anything that causes bleeding can put infected players down in seconds from 3000 blood, maybe even before they can react to bandage up.  Isn't that enough of a threat?

 

- Slightly increased infection rate compared to pre - 1.7.7 levels, as nobody really cared about it enough before.

When infected before 1.7.7 it was still quite risky going about the basics of survival, but infection was a rare event, where now in 1.7.7.1 it is too common, not least because it is quickly lethal.

 

- Have more than one cure, but make antibiotics the most successful and relatively speaking, least available ... just not super rare.

It is risky enough venturing into hospitals and medical tents, with only 3000 blood, let alone having basically zero chance of finding any antibiotics.  Why not have things like a combination of warmth, tent rest and pain killers have a reasonable chance of curing infection, or even part curing, say gaining back 3000 on blood limit?  Also make cures effective over time rather than instant, so infected players recover rather than experience miracles.

 

- Vary the chance of infection by body temperature, hunger and thirst, as all three can contribute to lowering immunity.

Body temperature already does function, at least if you play proper DayZ on a public hive it does.  Stay still at night and watch it drop, better still go for a swim then stand still and watch it plummet.  I almost froze to death on the fishing boat once, after swimming to recover it at night, then standing still at the wheel for a while driving it.  My indicator was flashing empty blue when I noticed.  Lowered immunity becomes another imperative to remain nourished and hydrated.

 

Look at that bambi killer on Elektro hill again.  Cold, hungry and thirsty from laying on a hill top for ages like a dork, now a prime infection target when that scoped dinner bell summons the local wildlife.  Nothing to do with punishment for bambi killing, or even having a weapon, but rather the penalty for neglecting the basics of survival equally applicable to anyone.

 

 

Infection as it stands now, just carpet bombs certain lethality without any recourse to reasonable challenge or reward.  People generally play games to be challenged, rewarded and entertained, not frustrated, bored and abused.  A one hour death sentence, with the last quarter of an hour unavoidable and unplayable is even worse.  Logging out just saves the joy of being unable to play for the next session.

 

 

Challenge and reward with the more plausible infection comes from players exercising risk reduction, by maintaining hygiene, warmth, nourishment and hydration.  There is also recourse to challenge and reward  when infected, by managing to survive whilst ill and find in a logical location, or formulate, partial treatment or a cure.

Edited August 15, 2013 by RN_Max

[latz 107]

R4Z0R49 can you tell what the progres on this, have you manage to do someting?

[zuel 1]

Just returned to DayZ after a long hiatus. It's still brilliant, but a couple of changes for the worse became quickly apparent. The first was the dramatically underpowered 9mm rounds, making them almost useless, but that's for another thread. The second was infection.

 

I appreciate the concept behind infection. Prior to infection a suitably equipped survivor could avoid towns, zombies and most other players indefinitely. Having a mechanic that forces them into town - and into danger - is clever. But the mechanic as it stands is an enjoymnent killer, as many above have mentioned. Becoming infected now is effectively a death sentence, with the cost/benefit of securing anti-biotics within an hour making restarting a cheaper option. That's not a good gameplay mechanic.

 

An infection that is 1) so easily caught, and 2) which kills in 60 minutes, and 3) can only be cured via an incredibly rare and difficult to acquire item, is three hard hitters in one.

 

The revised mechanic suggested by R4Z0R is an improvement, but not enough of one. It only tempers the first of the three hard hitters.

 

There are many revisions that could make it work though, by tempering one or all three to some degree. For example, make infection less likely. Or make it easier to prevent before it sets in. Or make it kill over 24 hours rather than 1. Or (my preferred) have infection cap your blood at 6000 until cured, making you generally more vulnerable. Or make antibiotics more commonly available.

 

Hope infection remains in the game, but is tweaked to perform its role as a force driving people out of the wilderness on occassion. I think it can be done.

[r4z0r49 4761]

We have some progress which goes into testing later today.

 

Some basic info. 

 

hitinfected is the name we are calling it but if you can think of something better plz shout. 

 

While your character is bleeding, if you are hit by a zombie, there is a chance you will become hitinfected. the hitinfected state works like this:

 

 

Stage 1:

 The first 15 minutes

 You cannot pass the infection to others

 You do not take blood damage

 You have a warning blood icon to show infection

 

Stage 2:

 15 minutes - 22.5 minutes

 You cannot pass the infection on

 You lose 1 blood per second

 You have the normal blood loss icon

 

Stage 3:

 22.5 minutes to 30 minutes

 You cannot pass the infection to others

 You lose 2 blood per second

 Normal blood loss icon

 

After 30 minutes you become fully infected, can transmit the infection to others, you lose 3 blood per second and your screen will shake.

 

 

During the first 30 mins you can apply a antiseptic wipe/cream to cure the hitinfected state, or you can use a herb bandage to both cure the hitinfection and stop bleeding from the initial hit. 

You get basically 30 mins to clean before you become infected and need antibiotics. If you logout in that time while hitinfected then you will log back in infected.

 

No tools are required to make any cure everything is found from the land. Antibiotics can only be found in three location's Hospital/Medical tents/Infected Camps.

 

Our main concern are the timers just now. But lets see how the testers find it.