Understanding KoS Mentality...

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

After reading yet another rant about the rampant KOS mentality currently permeating the mod, I considered a question that I have been toying with for a while now. Let me first say that I believe that the main reason so many people kill on sight is just because they're bored as hell. Once you've played the game for a while dying doesn't really mean shit, especially if you're playing with you friends. Its just not a big deal. You're essentially perma-geared which is the only real motivating factor to this game since there aren't attributes, XP or levels. So if you don't need to scavenge and if the zombies provide little entertainment because of how easy they are to deal with, then what would be the next logical step to keeping yourself entertained? Killing other players. Derp.

Why

Consider this though. It seems like the standalone is going to be implementing something i've long been hoping for - decreased spawn rates for loot (especially the higher end items like military weapons) and vehicles. Therefor making it much harder/more time consuming to gear up and reach "end game" and once you have finally managed to get some decent gear you would probably be pretty damn cautious about losing it. IE you probably wouldn't try to snipe some random dude just for the fun of it because he (or the newly improved zombies) might kill you. Buuuuut, it also might make people MORE likely to kill someone who is nearby under the "better safe than sorry" mentality. What do you think?

I really do believe that dramatically decreasing the spawn rates and therefor making this game more about scavenging/surviving the zombies (who I also believe should pose a much higher threat to players) would be a step....no, a leap in the right direction. You should have to gradually earn your gear, not just by running around but by genuinely fighting with the zombies too. Do that and you not only increase the realism/authenticity but you continually provide players with something to do (other than killing players). We all love this game, but sometimes there really isn't much else to do besides hunt people. FOR NOW!

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Rage VG 4033]

Could you edit your title to better define the subject of your post, please? It's somewhat misleading by being so vague.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

Could you edit your title to better define the subject of your post, please? It's somewhat misleading by being so vague.

Haha I know right, sat there for 10 minutes trying to think of a catchy title (otherwise people DGAF). Will change it to something better suited to the post

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Rage VG 4033]

"Understanding KoS Mentality" should be a good one.

Forgot to say, I read the post and you have some good points in it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Rage VG

[SixGunLover 54]

Hard to tell, but 'fresh spawn' will always try to headshot the guy that already have nice stuff and the player with nice stuff will always kill the next guy just to protect is gear (no matter how rare is the equipment). A lot of thing can be done for that, but it's don't seem ot be desired.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

and now my almighty "evanescent skill-tree" comes into play....

Edited June 11, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

The fresh spawn is honestly understandable to me and is something that like likely never change. But they are very easy to identify/steer clear of. End game KOSers are another story however and that was more of the aspect I was focusing on.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheepdog

[triage 117]

Okay, listen.. People kill other people on this mod because it's fun.

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

Okay, listen.. People kill other people on this mod because it's fun.

Okay, listen. You obviously didn't read the post in its entirety as I already mentioned this.

But what if there were other fun things to do? IE killing zombies that aren't glitchy chickens with the heads cut off. And what if working with another player could make this more fun due to the fact that it would let you fight more zombies and go places you otherwise couldnt by yourself.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheepdog

[Rage VG 4033]

Okay, listen.. People kill other people on this mod because it's fun.

Yes. This is literally what the first paragraph says. Thank you for essentially repeating it. :I

Edited June 11, 2013 by Rage VG

[Saethkept 134]

The title of the game - DayZ - is perhaps a bit misleading. DayZ is about surviving a zombie like apocalypse but it's not really about surviving the reanimated, returned dead or about shooting other players for reward. It's an amalgamation of several types of games heavily influenced by the '28 Days Later' franchise and films such as 'The Road' and 'The Road Warrior' with a bit of 'Man vs. Wild' thrown in to the pot. An open world game driven by the terror of surviving actual zombies has yet to be created.

Is DayZ a great game? I think so. Is it really a zombie survival or survival horror game? Not really. There's a vision that drives development of the mod - Rocket's vision - but that original idea has been hybridized over the course of its evolution by the fans and community dev team (who have done a nice job overall). What I'm getting at is, is that I do not think DayZ will ever be just about the zombies ... it's just not that kind experience; never was.

I'd love the "zombies" to become the focal point of the experience, or for survival (scavenging) to be made truly difficult. Instead, the amalgamation of several concepts which I mentioned earlier will likely continue to guide the mod and standalone along that hybrid track keeping the game grounded toward what it has been, was intended to be.

As for harder "zombies" in the mod (vs. in the stand alone), unless someone hard codes new AI behavior into the Arma2 engine, the constraints present will restrict what can be done to that end. Sure, you can make the zeds faster, stronger, etc. but they remain too easy to ignore.

Where KoS is concerned, you'd have to do much more than change in game features ... you'd have to change the mindset of many of the players.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Saethkept

[SixGunLover 54]

In this case, considering that people love to ‘test their skills’ and shoot at great value target by using sniper rifle, adding something that is rare, hard to shot down and rewarding can be an option. But even that can be unwanted.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

The title of the game - DayZ - is perhaps a bit misleading. DayZ is about surviving a zombie like apocalypse but it's not really about surviving the reanimated, returned dead or about shooting other players for reward. It's an amalgamation of several types of games heavily influenced by the '28 Days Later' franchise and films such as 'The Road' and 'The Road Warrior' with a bit of 'Man vs. Wild' thrown in to the pot. An open world game driven by the terror of surviving actual zombies has yet to be created.

you could also think about "Day Zero"

Is DayZ a great game? I think so. Is it really a zombie survival or survival horror game? Not really. There's a vision that drives development of the mod - Rocket's vision - but that original idea has been hybridized over the course of its evolution by the fans and community dev team (who have done a nice job overall). What I'm getting at is, is that I do not think DayZ will ever be just about the zombies ... it's just not that kind experience; never was.

I'd love the "zombies" to become the focal point of the experience, or for survival (scavenging) to be made truly difficult. Instead, the amalgamation of several concepts which I mentioned earlier will likely continue to guide the mod and standalone along that hybrid track keeping the game grounded toward what it has been, was intended to be.

As for harder "zombies" in the mod (vs. in the stand alone), unless someone hard codes new AI behavior into the Arma2 engine, the constraints present will restrict what can be done to that end. Sure, you can make the zeds faster, stronger, etc. but they remain too easy to ignore.

Where KoS is concerned, you'd have to do much more than change in game features ... you'd have to change the mindset of many of the players.

anyone tried 1.7.7 update? the new zeds could be now again a real distraction from PvP.

edit:

every form of content distracts a bit from KoS i guess.

make survival really tough: wounds are serious threats, illnesses are hard to treat and cure, desperately search for food and water, add stamina and weight

make zeds really a threat: so you at all cost have to avoid or outmaneuver them, make no noise, sneak and be a shadow

make life worth living: soft skills? hard permadeath? permanent scars?

Edited June 11, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Sheepdog (DayZ) 14]

anyone tried 1.7.7 update? the new zeds could be now again a real distraction from PvP.

This is what I had in mind. Not necessarily making zombies the central focal point of the game, but enough of a threat so that they provide an alternative outlet/form of entertainment to PvP combat. Therefore not only decrease the amount of KoS due to boredom, but also by promoting necessary cooperation with other players.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheepdog

[ThrobbinCorncob 8]

I'll admit, I've killed quite a few hatchet bambis running through Elektro because I was bored. I try not to but when none of your friends are on during the height of the server, camping and sniping can be a quick time killer.

I KOS because everyone else does. Two wrongs don't make a right, right? Well it sure helps me survive longer. I KOS because exactly as you said, OP, once you get good stuff it's pretty much end game. What else is there to do besides hit up barracks and troll some towns?

My general rule of thumb is draw a line from Starry due west and then a line to NEAF. Anything the falls north/northwest of that line is KoS. No exceptions. It's a survival game. Only survival I care about is mine and then maybe the survival of the group I run with. Anything immediately south of that line is at discretion(someone aiming at me, someone sneaking up on me, clearly has military grade gear/camo/ghillie is absolute KOS) and anything near the coast I generally tend to avoid and go on my merry way. Balota is hit or miss. M4s do have a chance to spawn there and if I see you pick it up, you're fair game.

I do agree with above though. ACTUAL bandit/highwaymen are exceptionally few and very rare between but when everyone thinks they're John Wayne with a Makarov, it's hard to try to be a "nice" bandit.

every form of content distracts a bit from KoS i guess.

make survival really tough: wounds are serious threats, illnesses are hard to treat and cure, desperately search for food and water, add stamina and weight

make zeds really a threat: so you at all cost have to avoid or outmaneuver them, make no noise, sneak and be a shadow

make life worth living: soft skills? hard permadeath? permanent scars?

Let's add weapons durability to that list. No, not WoW stupidity of "go to gun store and pay 6 beans for 100/100 durability." More along the lines of, 1/10000 chance of say, your barrel explodes because of a faulty round. You come out of the water from swimming and you immediately try to fire with an M4 and the lower receiver break into pieces. A car runs into your car or a tree, a chance of certain weapons taking damage and a higher malfunction rate increases. Maybe have a random chance of unknowingly picking up "dirty" ammo that gums up the bolt/firing pin. Etc, etc, etc. Then at the point unless you can find pieces or scavenge pieces from other like weapons, that gun is now completely useless and you have to decide if you want to run around with a hunk of metal and wait it out trying to find parts or to just dump it and move on.

It would really cut down on people just sitting and waiting at a spot for 6 hours because of weapon degradation.

Edited June 11, 2013 by ThrobbinCorncob

[EndEffeKt 87]

In the end the players shoot everyone on sight because they were shot on sight before by other players. Problem is that this creates a vicious circle and kills most of the player interactions that would make the game far more interessting. Players that just sit there and shoot others because of boredome are like tiny little motors spinning the wheel even faster. So I agree with your guys: Give the players more to do, make the game harder and more rewarding and they might do something else. AND reduce the absurd amonth of military grade weapons (snipers assault rifles) :D

[joe_mcentire 2074]

AND reduce the absurd amonth of military grade weapons (snipers assault rifles) :D

i know it will never happen but i second your idea. far more daily used tools or random stuff like bricks, poles etc. and thus melee weapons. really really rare weapons and even less to be found ammo....yeah that's pretty much my dayz survival dream come true.

[Private Evans 1303]

The only chance to keep the stupid casual CoD players out ( that's the players who kos mostly without any reason) is to make games as difficult and realistic and frustrating as possible ( like Arma series or Red Orchestra for example).

[Quartermaine 34]

After reading yet another rant about the rampant KOS mentality currently permeating the mod,

Citation required.

I don't see how decreasing loot spawn rates would have any influence at all on pvp interaction; if anything it would increase kos (he has better items than me, if I kill him I will save a lot of time instead of having to grind for loot).

We all love this game, but sometimes there really isn't much else to do besides hunt people. FOR NOW!

It's a sandbox/survival game, you make your own fun with the tools provided by the design team. Just because kos is no fun for you, doesnt mean other people dislike it.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

People will KOS till the end of time.

personally i treat everyone like they will shoot at me so i don't interact with people with military grade weapons.

if i do,i have my gear and stuff stashed, usually just have a flashlight armed.

if and when i do kill on sight its usually because i have been having a bad time on server and in the middle of something important.

and have a grave feeling if i don't get the draw on you it will bite me in the ass.

i'm sure there were innocent Hero players waltzing into NWAF looking to help people and i turn around and kill them.

i usually feel bad and pick em up off the coast

[-Gews- 7443]

I KoS because I like it, end of... there's nothing else to it. I don't wanna team up and repair a heli with Little Jimmy, I want to shoot him. For me, at least, it's not lack of better stuff to do.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

i keep track of people on the servers i play on.

usually get a feel how other people act and move.

if i don't know you we might have to throw down in Elektro market for some beans.

[thengeance 19]

Even if survivors are forced to band together to fight off a horde in order to get loot (ala raiding in other MMO's), that cooperation would go out the window when the threat was eliminated and the gear on display. For those of you out there who have played MMO's, imagine the chaos that would ensue if, upon downing a boss, everyone got to kill one another for the loot.

That's why this game is so unique and so exciting: Unpredictable, anxiety-inducing, trust-testing interactions.