My two cents about endgame and NPC's

[theszerdi 50]

I've been thinking long and hard about the DayZ endgame and come to the conclusion that it sucks. For the average casual gamer there IS NO ENDGAME. You learn to play, you explore, build a camp, kill a bunch of infected/players, get bored and quit DayZ.

Now this isn't to say that there CAN'T be an endgame. In fact many private servers create one through player run events and factions. This is great, if you're the hardcore type that writes their own D&D campaigns this works for you. If you don't mind a great game with so much promise like DayZ fading into obscurity and kept alive only by a few fanatics this is fine. (Anyone remember Freelancer?)

Right now DayZ's popularity continues because of it's ability to be modded. If the standalone is not moddable I'm afraid it will fade within months. Personally I prefer that DayZ stay popular and vigorous by appealing to the more casual gamer. I also prefer that it do this without losing the promise and possibility. (You know what happens when a game goes too casual . . . Not that I'll mention any hugely popular MMO's here.)

So, to provide the possibility without losing the hardcore survival immersion I have a proposal. A set of, let's call them core events, that give casual gamers an objective. Core events that provide something to do beyond amassing loot and killing infected, but not something that breaks the immersion and open endedness loved by the hardcore players.

I help run a private Namalsk server with mission events similar to Wasteland's. This works fine for us, but we're more of a post-apocalypse squad warfare type of server and I think that strays too far from the original DayZ goal. Instead of broadcasting messages and placing map markers as the missions do on my server I was thinking that small enclaves could be located throughout the map to provide information.

Say a fortified church in Chernogorsk with an NPC priest and a few acolytes. Talking to the priest he could tell you of a bandit camp somewhere to the northeast, that there is a heavy concentration of infected in Zelenogorsk, or that a survivor trade convoy had passed through recently. Similarly a small gang could be holed up in a junkyard that provides the same information to players of a less friendly persuasion.

Nuts n' bolts:

Survivor convoy spawns SW edge of map and follows the coast road stopping briefly in each town then turns NW in Elektro to head up through Stary and finally exits on the NW corner of map. The convoy could stop briefly in each town and depending on rate of travel may even camp overnight somewhere. Could offer free healing to survivors and attack bandits. Possibly a trading system. Maybe the convoy only travels through the server 2 or 3 times a week and if destroyed or partly destroyed it doesn't regain full strength for a week.

Heavy infected concentrations that don't dwindle until the leader type is killed. (Think queen mother of the horde or patient zero plague bearer sort of thing.)

Bandit camp that spawns in random forest areas and bandit NPC's that raid nearby towns and stock loot in their camp. At the beginning of each week the server can check if all bandits have been killed, if so the camp wipes and a new one spawns.

Survivor or bandit landing party that establishes a beach camp and either raids or trades for a few hours/days before moving on.

And of course all these NPC's can be killed and are aligned with players based on humanity or some similar system.

These types of core events not only provide objectives for casual gamers, but can be built off of by more devoted players. A survivor group could escort the convoy to make sure they don't have to wait a week for it to respawn. Bandits could massacre the priests to deny the survivors intel. These events also provide an opportunity for like-minded players to meet and (possibly) cooperate. Even with 50 players online you could wander Chernarus for hours without seeing anyone. Events like this provide an optional focal point for those interested.

I've heard Dean objects to NPC's beyond the infected, but there just aren't enough dedicated players to provide the organization and support structure that a continuing world needs. Adding core events like those I've mentioned would allow casual and hardcore fans alike to enjoy more objective oriented play without losing the immersion. I hope that the standalone includes something like this. It gives the casuals an endgame and provides a jumping off point for the hardcore players to develop even more on their own.

P.S. Some of you will surely ask "Why don't you write the scripts for this?". Several reasons: I'm too inexperienced to code stuff that complex. (Getting the mission system on our Namalsk server written was hard enough for me.) Also, this would probably require modification of the DayZ code itself and I don't even want to get into that. Finally, I'd like to see it run worth a damn. With all the custom scripts on our Namalsk server we have a 35 person pop cap and it still lags. Optimize the standalone!

P.P.S. Many people suggest adding more stuff, but most of it is just that. Stuff. Junk that collects in your camp. I'm talking about giving additional options to play style.

[10FPSGuy 13]

Interesting.

[btw, I live in Dexter. Yay Michigan!]

[DontTrustPubs 17]

I actually support the implementation of NPCs. Bandits camps, Hero Camps, Etc would all promote team play.

[liquidcactus 719]

not a bad idea but the rocket has always said there will never be NPC's

[theszerdi 50]

not a bad idea but the rocket has always said there will never be NPC's

So I've heard. I suspect that if he sticks to that and the standalone is not moddable then it will only be hardcore fans playing it 6 months after release.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

I don't like NPCs/mods, and I'm not a hardcore fan.

Your theory is flawed.

[Quartermaine 34]

A cool and well thought out idea OP but there are already plenty of games that cater to this kind of playstyle.

What you are suggesting would risk robbing Dayz of its most important aspect, i.e. player driven story, not plot driven story.

[theszerdi 50]

A cool and well thought out idea OP but there are already plenty of games that cater to this kind of playstyle.

What you are suggesting would risk robbing Dayz of its most important aspect, i.e. player driven story, not plot driven story.

I'm not suggesting the NPC's give quests or anything like that. I'm just suggesting some variety that allows people to play without joining a community and dedicating a lot of time to player events. The current setup leaves a lot to be desired for solo players and even small groups.

[Quartermaine 34]

I'm not suggesting the NPC's give quests or anything like that.

Say a fortified church in Chernogorsk with an NPC priest and a few acolytes. Talking to the priest he could tell you of a bandit camp somewhere to the northeast, that there is a heavy concentration of infected in Zelenogorsk, or that a survivor trade convoy had passed through recently. Similarly a small gang could be holed up in a junkyard that provides the same information to players of a less friendly persuasion.

I am confuse?

I kinda see what you are tryna say, but it wouldn't be DayZ with NPCs, it would be something else entirely.

[-Gews- 7443]

an NPC priest and a few acolytes

NPC's

NPC's

[theszerdi 50]

I am confuse?

I kinda see what you are tryna say, but it wouldn't be DayZ with NPCs, it would be something else entirely.

The NPC is not marking your map and telling you to kill the bandits for a reward. Just give a general area/direction that NPC bandits are in so that if you want to you can try to find them or avoid them.

There's nothing to DO once you learn how to play. I'm a bandit because that's all that is left. Kill people for fun. This provides an OPTION that you can choose or avoid.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

People complain about the lack of endgame when they don't realize that they can create their own. You'd be surprised by the things you can do in DayZ besides killing and looting.

For the last month or two, I've been looting Elektro in my preferred server, setting up tents in the church, filling them with all the loot I find and giving it away to anyone who trusts me enough to come by. I advertise my charity on side chat. That's my endgame at the moment.

I met a watch salesman on the same server, while I was looting for the church. He sold me a 'quality timepiece' for a can of mountain dew.

I also spoke to someone who was supposedly selling weapons and items near Kamenka, but I never actually saw or met him.

It's a sandbox game. While it's not the norm, you can create your own goals, even in the mod. You just have to think outside the box.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

The whole concept of NPCs being added kind of breaks the feeling for me. Why? Well, there are multiple reasons;

1. AI actions aren't really true to life;

While admittedly they can get close, it's still not a player being dropped into the world. You won't get an actual human reaction to an event happening around them, which sort of ruins the realism.

2. They break the balance of the game.

This is especially true with AI Bandits. Of course, I'm not even advocating at all that DayZ has to be balanced beyond belief (It does have to at some extent to retain the entertainment value), but AI bandits would either be; an easy way to get gear (Based on player experience/bad AI) or an incredibly annoying enemy with a non-realistic feel (Which is what Arma AI is often like if not terrible, to the point that they can shoot you before they hear you.)

3. They ruin the 'sandbox' feel.

DayZ is almost entirely a player-driven experience. The only limits applied is the coding of the game, in which then players are given absolute free-will over what to do within those boundaries. Adding AI who obviously can't have free will, as well as giving you or 'notifying' you of tasks makes it seem objective based, regardless of whether that's the intended feel. The whole point of DayZ is that people can choose what their goal is.

No AI. please.

None.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Chaingunfighter

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Folks reasoning for including AI NPCs often revolves around a supposed lack of options, activities or player interaction. The way I've watched DayZ unfold leads me to believe the failing lies with players' attitudes, not the core game design.

Lack of imagination and fear of other players are the real issue here.

That's why folks drift into deathmatch mode and why KOS is so common.

Adding NPCs to provide "end-game" or "objectives", or whatever you want to call it, would just be painting over the cracks. I think a lot of folks believe they like DayZ, when really they just don't.

Nobody needs to go mental about that. It's just the way things look from where I'm standing.

[theszerdi 50]

Chaingunfighter and Chabowski, you both make compelling arguments. If the standalone is moddable I agree that Vanilla DayZ should remain NPC free and be purely player-driven. If admins don't have the power to mod or at least some event tools I think the game will be a lot less interesting.

I know I certainly wouldn't waste hours collecting vehicles/loot for an event. I have a job, yardwork, and at least a little social life. Without some admin tools I just don't have time to help drive events on a server.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

I hate AI

please god no

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I hate AI

please god no

I think you're being a bit too general...

Because... Y'know...

Zombies...

[theszerdi 50]

For those who think DayZ will stay popular without the mods/npc's just take a look at the top 500 or 1000 servers on Gametracker. Not a lot of Vanilla DayZ in there. I'm all for purely player driven stories, but most of us just don't have time even if we do have the interest.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

If you give folks the opportunity to change things to suit themselves, they will.

More popular does not mean better.

[theszerdi 50]

If there's nobody to play with your story will be pretty boring. Or repetitive if you only have the same few.

Also, more popular is better when you're trying to sell something.

[-Gews- 7443]

More popular does not mean better.

Spawn with sniper!

Even if there were NPCs, people would just cap them immediately. I've played on a server with NPC bandits. Didn't realize there were NPCs on the server until I got shot at.

*oh noes, I'm being shot at*

Ran away, then saw 4 retarded-looking bandits doing the weird "AI crouch walk" and just shot them all. Was disappointed, no challenge, no fun, lamed up the server.

[Julius Caesar 1760]

There's nothing to DO once you learn how to play. I'm a bandit because that's all that is left. Kill people for fun. This provides an OPTION that you can choose or avoid.

False, extremely false, you can do whatever you want when you're at the "endgame" I personally fly a Little Bird and offer medevacs, medical evacs, to people and be an all around good guy.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

my two cents:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124356-player-decisions-unlocking-new-content/

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124884-give-us-what-we-do-not-need-junk-and-unique-loot/

[Inception. 9443]

There's nothing to DO once you learn how to play. I'm a bandit because that's all that is left. Kill people for fun. This provides an OPTION that you can choose or avoid.

You are limited by your imagination.

[voddler (DayZ) 367]

I've played since May last year.. The reason I had a little break for a month or so was basically because of hackers and they didn't update as often. Me and my friends were usually excited seeing a new patch/update. Keep in mind, I never liked the AI in arms 2 and 3. They feel so.. I don't know how to explain it but they seem to shoot you down in a few seconds, unlike a player has to spot you more than once.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I think modding ruined dayz, mainly because people that actually played or were hardcore fans didn't bother stupid modding where people got AKs or AS50s on spawn.. I'm against modding as the team can do better than most people that think they're "cool" that they spawned with an as50.

Edited June 2, 2013 by voddler