[SA] No snipers, no choppers.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U6K6OYs_QM0/UV1RBLI8i6I/AAAAAAAABIU/oZj_iOdH1iQ/s1600/Not+AS-50.jpg

The only picture I could find of a person wielding the AS50. (irl) I'm sure there's a couple more floating around, but as Gews said, not common stuff.

[-Gews- 7443]

http://4.bp.blogspot...0/Not AS-50.jpg

The only picture I could find of a person wielding the AS50. (irl) I'm sure there's a couple more floating around, but as Gews said, not common stuff.

Not an AS50, it's a Chinese M99.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Gews

[Death_Dealer 3155]

Not an AS50, it's a Chinese M99.

Well that certainly makes it seem even more rare, the AS50. :P

[Lidskjalf 132]

Nowadays you enter in a barrack or go directly into a heli crash site and you are just probably going to find hi-tech equipment & guns. Imagine if only 1 AS50 or M107 respawn per server, you can have a minimal amount of weapons and at the same time reward the guys who can find it first, so they will get more valuable and less available in general. I don't find illogical to find any of these weapons in a "military country", but at least they can make them difficult to find.

Well it is obvious that the mod is flawed as in loot table regards. It would be a different story if you didn't see them as often - again, I did state that I would like them to be removed, but I wouldn't be opposed to lowering the loot threshold per server. And it would only make sense that people would see the lower caliber snipers more frequently than the .50's.

I am very excited to see what they will come up with in the SA.

Cheers,

Lidskjalf :beans:

[Lidskjalf 132]

I don't use sniper rifle or helicopters. I am not against them per se. What I am against are weapons/tools/vehicles/materials that are not represented with the proper postive AND negative aspects.

You cant run around with an AS50 the same as an MP5.

How many survivors are master aircraft maintence trained? Sure you may be able to figure out how to fly that bird but without proper maintence how many hours will you log before a hydralic line blows or stabilizer lets go? Random events like these should be in the game in my oppinion.

There should be few if any "no brainer" choices. For almost everything you gain there is something you should have to give. Such is life.

I agree 100%.

[enforcer1975 1111]

AS-50 is an english sniper rifle, it came with the ARMA II: BAF expansion pack therefore there's a chance it could be in Russia.

ArmA history wise the Brits were only in Takistan...

[joinnkakashi@gmail.com 31]

Really I think the game is quite fine where it is, the fact is scoped hunting rifles are surpisingly common even in post soviet states, a lot of communities rely on it for the food. and from what I understand, I could be completely wrong so don't quote me. Is that the Zombie outbreak happened just after or during the events of the Arma II single player

[-Gews- 7443]

Really I think the game is quite fine where it is, the fact is scoped hunting rifles are surpisingly common even in post soviet states, a lot of communities rely on it for the food.

Mmmmm only a single scoped hunting rifle in the game... versus, what, 8 times as many scoped military rifles? They should add a Tigr or something as well as other hunting rifles to find in the deer stands.

It gets boring looting deer stands when they only ever spawn one rifle, there's no variety in civilian weapons so everyone just runs to the barracks and fire stations, which means everyone is usually in the same places... meh.

<_<

Edited May 29, 2013 by Gews

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

lol @ op

You want to completley change the game and remove the parts you don't like and that are too hard for you to handle like get 50's and helis removed.

Then it will be super awesome with real playerz with skillz init?

Go back to bf3 where theres no 50's and stop trying to dumb the game down to your level op!

These threads are like a plague they just keep coming as more cod/bf3 n00bs leave and come here.

[Quartermaine 34]

Why stop there OP?

Honestly if you are going to remove anything, take away the scoped rifles.

If they have a scope, make it a slow bolt action. At least that way, hopefully, you could respect the skill it took to kill you.

Keep helis, but make them insanely difficult to fly/maintain.

Can't punish/remove content for other players simply because they are better than you OP.

[LoulouMekna 10]

I live in France, in the middle of nowhere, where there's a lot of farmers which practice hunting. For example, in my town (~250 inhabitants), there is maybe, fifty people who owns an hunting license. It's the only way to buy rifle (not militaries ones, but for hunting like .22 long rifle, double barreled, pellet guns) and ammo.

So as far as I know, peoples only owns civilians guns.

In east europa country, where dayz takes place, the legislation is very close, due to the European Union ! So I think it will not be an incredible event to find an hunting rifle or a light handgun in most of the houses in rural places of Tchernarus.

BUT, in my towns, people who owns guns doesn't let them lying on the ground in their house.... I hope they thought to make very great hidden place in the SA to find these little treasures, like attics, lofts, or in basement in the house. It's must take more time than actually, just check in the house to see if a weapon has spawned, and leave if not. We must have a chance to find them hidden on the top of tall furnitures like wardrobe and so on...

=> In conclusion, we would have to spend 5 minutes in the house exploring all the possible places ! The amount of weapons would not be decreased, but increased, but much harder to find.

We'll know that there is a hunting rifle in most of the house in this little town, but for finding a weapons, it must takes nearly 20 minutes of intense searching to find one, excluding zombies or other players agressions !

However, Tchernarus seems to be an old communist country, and according to the movie "Lord of war", at the end of communism reign, there was very easy to find military stuffs, if we have relatives or friends working in the army, but not so easy for poor farmer of middle of nowhere. These military weapons coud be buy by wealthier people, who lives in cities, or more urbans areas, not as the same ratio that peoples owns guns in rural areas, but don't make impossible the chance of finding a military weapons in the basement of a lovely house in the center of Tcherno...

And don't forget that before the infection, Tchernarus was a land under war, with many guerilleros, and helped by the US Marine Corps, so find weapons cache in wilderness could be possible, but very rare, and at random place like helicrash sites, but not so visible, and do not have all military weapons in 50 copies, with all ammo, but for example, an US military cache could have one or two M4/M16, various ammo but not in quantity, military clothes, scopes (for the SA's system of modding weapons), bipode, grenade, etc...

The same for guerilla's caches with Ak's, guerilleros clothing...

When USMC, BAF and other armies came to Tchernarus, they known that it will be close combat, jungle combat, like in Viet Nam, and doesn't bring necessary very efficient scoped rifles. The priority was not long range combat or anti materials combats, but short or mid range, in covered areas, with lot of trees, and many hills. This country is not made for sniping ! But it's made for assault weapons, machine guns. For anti personnal combats ! A M107 or .50 as no using, if the army facing is an informal guerilla, with for best equipments a Pick up with Mounted machineguns, or lot of pedestrians soldiers hidden in the forest !

I don't say that these weapons doesn't have to be found, but they have to be very rarer.

For choppers, I think it will be more civilians choppers we could find in cities, but as many said, make it harder to drive, longer to start (a real life helicopter must be started at least 5 minutes before the ride, because the rotor has to increase his speed to come to the good speed for taking off.)

For the vehicles like car, motorcycle, bike, trucks : they have to be very much easier to find ! But to find a car which have fuel in the fuel tank, and able to drive along without fixing it must be as rare as actually 4 or 5 spawned cars on the entire map. The car part must be found in some place like garage, or like in the mod in industrial places, but with more diversity. => one engine part for the car, one for the trucks, one for choppers, wheels at different sizes, who could be still mount on incompatible vehicles, but make a problem of direction that makes the car always going to the left or always to the right when no key is pressed.

It could not be this hard to find vehicles. At least there's one vehicles for two house in Tchernarus, because the country is poor, but not as poor as no one could buy a cheap sovietic car. But the vehicles could all be more or less broken, making a car not a precious objects. In the mod, having a car is a great achievements, not as good as having a choppers, but make the travel on tchernarus easier and make team more able to mount a camp. If the car is not longer a rare features, other people won't try to shoot at sight the driver when they see a car, because they know that they could find another vehicles not so further.

[declan223@gmail.com 271]

^What^

[boneboys 7988]

^What^

It is a very good and well thought out post.

A few errors in gramatical construction but easy enough to understand.

[LoulouMekna 10]

I made it to explain a logical reasonning on the spawn of military and non-military, and made it pretty quickly because I'm at work right now !

[enforcer1975 1111]

I made it to explain a logical reasonning on the spawn of military and non-military, and made it pretty quickly because I'm at work right now !

That was a well thought out post although i disagree with the OA, BAF and PMC content beeing in the game because as i said they were in Takistan ( self explaining since they all have "tan" gear which is haute couture for the desert warrior ). Edited May 29, 2013 by Enforcer

[declan223@gmail.com 271]

It is a very good and well thought out post.

A few errors in gramatical construction but easy enough to understand.

True, and some of the facts are a bit wrong but what was said was fundamentally true

Edited May 29, 2013 by Shrimpy223

[LoulouMekna 10]

Yeah sorry, I forgot which country were involved in Tchernarus campagn, and there's only US, Russia and local guerilla!

Effectively if British Air Force never came to Tchernarus, we shouldn't find BAF weapons !

The only scoped rifles of USMC are M24, M40A3 (which are relatively close with hunting weapons, quality increased), DMR, and the M107 for antimaterial.

The M107 is hard to manipulate, make a very huge detonation and has high recoil, so it's not a weapon "for pussy". It should be still make disadvantages by her weight and her height, people should run slower when they have it, and the dayz team could make it rarer, because it had no strategical interest for the USMC to bring it in Tchernarus.

We should find at least some of russian army's scoped weapons, like SVD, but at really rare spawn site.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/ArmA2_Chernarus_factbook_map.jpg

We can see that Tchernarus country and Russia are really close, so why not an abandonned army base in the north of the map ? (I know it doesn't concern the topic)

[-Gews- 7443]

We should find at least some of russian army's scoped weapons, like SVD, but at really rare spawn site.

http://upload.wikime...actbook_map.jpg

I think the SVD should be more common, especially considering the commercial variants and other "similar" rifles (PSL). M24s and M40A3s are rare in comparison, they cost what, $7,000 last I checked?

The SVD isn't nearly as accurate or expensive, and I bet there have been a shit ton of them made. Not only the Russians in-game used this, but it was also the standard sniper rifle of BOTH Chernarussian factions!

It should be far more common than Western guns... I rarely see any SVDs and the normal SVD isn't even in DayZ. Tears of rage. As for accuracy:

3.8cm R100 is enough to be effective, but nothing to brag about... .

[LoulouMekna 10]

And historically, the SVD was sold by Russia to all "Eastern" country, during the cold war. According to wikipedia : "the Dragunov has become the standard squad support weapon of several countries"

Edited May 29, 2013 by LoulouMekna

[fluxley 2228]

Has it ever been confirmed that DayZ follows on from the events of the Arma campaign? as far as i know thats just assumption.

[LoulouMekna 10]

How can we explain the amount of M4/M16 rifles ? And M14 ? And M1911, M9, M249 Saw (all weapons that begins by 'M' in fact ahah)

The airstrip and airfield nearly only spawn american weapons, that sounds like they were important base of US Army while Tchernarus war

[enforcer1975 1111]

I think the SVD should be more common, especially considering the commercial variants and other "similar" rifles (PSL). M24s and M40A3s are rare in comparison, they cost what, $7,000 last I checked?

The SVD isn't nearly as accurate or expensive, and I bet there have been a shit ton of them made. Not only the Russians in-game used this, but it was also the standard sniper rifle of BOTH Chernarussian factions!

It should be far more common than Western guns... I rarely see any SVDs and the normal SVD isn't even in DayZ. Tears of rage. As for accuracy:

3.8cm R100 is enough to be effective, but nothing to brag about... .

Well it isn't really a true sniper rifle but more a marksman rifle that is used to engage enemies beyond the effective range of the AK up to 800m effectively so beeing inferior to a pimped purpose built sniper rifle should be ok.

And historically, the SVD was sold by Russia to all "Eastern" country, during the cold war. According to wikipedia : "the Dragunov has become the standard squad support weapon of several countries"

As a matter of fact Iraq produceds/produced their variant based on the RPK, quasi a semiauto RPK with a long slim barrel and a PSO style scope called the Tabuk. But it uses 7,62x39 ammo so in case the userruns out of ammo his teammates can give him their magazines. The rifle can also be used to engage targets up to 800m effectively but it's quite weaker compared to the SVD round. I wonder if that had a better chance ending up in Chernarus than a DMR.

Has it ever been confirmed that DayZ follows on from the events of the Arma campaign? as far as i know thats just assumption.

I sure hope so because that would make the most sense considering he uses the same island and it's the same company. Even if he decides to make his own story it wouldn't make any sense if he floods the game with western weapons and vehicles due to the background ( former soviet state in the middle of nowhere, no internet, no toilets no running water with people so poor they can afford the most expensive military grade weapons and expensive vehicles from capitalists etc. ) because that's when i will not buy the game or at the very least pause until i find a server with a realistic geographic loot setup.

Let me use a word considering military export weapons "ITAR"

Edited May 29, 2013 by Enforcer

[DooM599 1]

Don't remove sniper rifles, not even the antimaterial ones. There are many possibilities how to make snipers balanced and actually simultaneosly make them more realistic. Instead of removing them forever, they could be i.e removed from the SA alpha and returned when certain balancing conditions are met. And remember we are talking about the upcoming standalone, not the ARMA2 mod!

Problem 0: They are far too common! I've seen dozen-sized groups wearing ghillie suits and they all had antimaterial rifles and other helicrash weapons!

Solution: You are considering the mod, not SA

You have experienced this very likely because they exploited item duplication glitches or spawned stuff by hacking. It's gonna be standalone, duplicating and spawning stuff can be fixed. People will no more waste their ammo into worthless targets, or just turn one AS50 into ten and shove 9 of them into their tent, then after they die they can't just get a new one like some can in the current version of DayZ mod. I've seen alot of camps full of high-end gear, and im pretty sure they were achieved by exploiting. This is the reason why people sit sniping freshspawns, the disappointing truth is that in DayZ mod you will never run totally out of ammo. Currently, if you kill a sniper who appears to be a player exploiting duplication glitches or just simply cheating, it won't mean there is one sniper-player less around, it means he/she will just return with the same gear, and this might take only a hour. That should not be possible in the standalone, if it is, then ALL rare & powerful weapons shall be removed totally.

Problem 1: You can zero your gun with a few button presses in ARMA2/DayZ mod, even in a middle of the fight. This makes them highly flexible in any long range combat, and you don't need that much skill or knowledge to use snipers for different distances.

Solution: There should be a REALISTIC zeroing system in the game.

In real world, you just won't start a firefight by checking how far your target is and then zero your gun in 2-5 seconds to that distance to get an accurate shot using the dot in the middle of your scope. Currently, you just press page up or page down to make your gun zeroed to a fixed distance like 500m or 600m. In real world, you need to determine if it's zeroed correct by shooting to a target set to a specific distance and then checking if it hit the target correctly. It won't take you seconds, it will take much more, rendering it almost impossible to zero your gun while a fight if your target is aware of you.

A real world like system would make you spend time alone just adjusting the gun, and beside that you need to foresee whatkind of distances your targets will be in, which is hard. You would need to waste bullets doing this, and you would alert zombies and players to you because of the noise. You would need a couple of friends to be keep you safe while you're sniping or just zeroing the gun. It would make all snipers turn as difficult and skill demanding as DMR, you aren't going to use the middle dot of your scope to aim the target unless the target is at the distance you zeroed your sniper to earlier.

Problem 2: You can just find a sniper and it's ammo and then use it right after that. A freshspawn might just

run into a helicrash, find an antimaterial rifle and get killing people.

Solution 1: Make them even more rare

They're gonna be truly rare after item duplication and spawning is completely prevented. I won't care about a threat if I have a 0,0001% chance of encountering one, and the players who killed me have trained for hundreds of hours, and seen much effort to just get their gear. I'd rather be impressed than annoyed if i meet a well established group able to take me using experience and effort, especially because it's possible to make them rare

Solution 2: You might find a gun with missing, broken or worn parts and you need to replace them

This would make getting snipers demand more than just luck. Say, you could find a rifle without a scope, because someone took the scope because his weapon's scope was broken but his gun was otherwise in a fine condition. Then you would have to find a gun with a scope that fits it. There would be broken parts which cannot be repaired, and the condition of your gun parts reduces by every shot you take, and when a part reaches 0% condition that part will be useless.

This would make people also consider the shot's effect to their gun beside wasting bullets, before taking a worthless shot. There could be fixed rates for the way specific guns appear, like you could never find an antimaterial rifle without a broken or missing part.

So a weapon condition system could make getting and maintaining snipers almost as difficult as for vehicles. Many people skip the opportunity to repair a car in the mod if it's likely that they can't find the parts for it considering the efforts and benefits cars have, so why would you want to pick up a broken AM sniper, and then try to find another to replace the broken part(s)? Maybe because you've got well communicating friends who can deal with the zombies and players if you meet them. But you won't pick one up if you're just hanging around alone and trying to find better weaponry to protect yourself, especially if you have a choice to pick a different weapon with superior condition

compared to that overpowered low-condition sniper rifle.

I'd like to see a detailed weapon condition system like this, but i don't know if it's gonna be too tough to make all weapons able to be disassembled.

EDIT:

Problem 3: They make no sense in Chernarus

Solution: Change the lore a little bit

Im unaware that there is official lore for DayZ at the moment, but can't the other nations just try to investigate or help chernarus in middle of a zombie apocalypse? NATO, BAF etc. weapons would make sense if they were found only on helicrashes or somekind of temporary looking military bases which appear randomly, if it's possible, surrounded by dead soldiers. Of course there could be dead soldiers around just because of underestimation and unawariness towards the threat. Or the infection could spread through air, which leads to helicopters and cars crashing, and the survivors are the only ones immune to the infection.

In case you thought it was Too Long and you Didin't Read..

In overall, snipers should be extremely bad for close combat which requires you to have friends covering you, they should require luck to find any, maybe find two before getting one working, should require time and effort to get them working, should make zeroing non-changeable during fight's, their avaiblity should be so tough that you aren't just gonna kill people for fun using military snipers, and if there was no item duplication glitches/item spawning nobody of you would complain about them at all because they would be so rare.

Edited May 29, 2013 by DooM599

[Donlod 6]

DooM599 convinced me, but i dont think they should be even more rarer the current 0.01% is already too rare for me... the only thing i found at heli crash sites was a bizon and sometimes a fal. i think the biggest problem with this was that duplicating and spawning loot and bugs with tents, which had all items, which were taken out before, restored after server restarts. preventing duplicating and spawning should fix this ... i hope.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Donlod

[WiFiN 55]

I'm a little bit late, but...

Oh look! Another OP just went full retard!

I lost the count how many times people raised this topic. EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG are aware that semi-auto 50 cals are a bit too powerful now yet require no skill to use. WE KNOW, RIGHT?

And in every topic there was always a post about making them realistic. What new and unknown did you want to discover by creating this thread? No, seriously.

And about the choppers - it was already said that using them will be much harder in the SA. Let alone it wasn't such a huge advantage actually - high chances to crash, requirements for refuel, and a giant fucking dinner bell for bandits, survivors, noobs and zombies alike. It wasn't even easy to shoot someone using the mounted guns (from any safe distance). The only advantage was speed which could help you to cross the the map quickly and that's all.

Yet, you keep bitching about those.

DayZ community, I am disappoint.

Edited May 29, 2013 by WiFiN