Why remove the 50?

[Zev. 28]

@Floxer

No probs fella.

Just one question to everyone though, without hitting the pilot is there any other sniper rifle other than an AS50 or M107 that can bring a chopper down?

[BarryManalow 1]

ALL OF THEM.

5.56 does the job aswell.

Aim for either the main or tail rotor(tail prefered)

Or for the fuel tanks.

Arma simulates diffrent aspects of the vehicle and the tail rotor is the weakest spot.(after the wind shield with pilot:D)

[fluxley 2228]

@Floxer

No probs fella.

Just one question to everyone though, without hitting the pilot is there any other sniper rifle other than an AS50 or M107 that can bring a chopper down?

Depends which heli

Littlebird - almost any gun can take it down very weak.

Huey - Aim for the main rotor or the tail rotor, DMR, Mk48, M240 or M249 are best guns for the job

MI-17 - Its a flying tank, even with well placed shots it can take a lot of hits, buts its also slow to maneuver so by the time the pilot has got it steady enough for the gunners to get a bead on you you've had plenty of time to either take out the gunner or spam the main rotor.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Fluxley

[floxer 11]

as matter of fact there is need for an anti material weapon...

why? because there are cars to blow up and helis to be downed with it besides shooting holes in players

why shouldnt there be such a gun in chernarus?

the more content of guns there are the better - i like choosing between many guns

the recoil of the as50 aswell as of the m107 is not neglegtible

if you are not convinced check out the sniper rifle guide:

compare the accurate firerate of sniper rifles and you will come to the conclusion that the as50 and m107 are about average in total of all snipers

when it comes to optics - well the optics of the as50 and m107 are zeroable - so there is no need to compensate for bullet drop if you can estimate the exact distance to your target. as there is no range finding indicator attached to the optics, like the svd has, you will need a range finder or gps to track the distance and set your zeroing correct. Seems pretty fair to me

and yeah you are correct barry there is absolutly no skill involved to shoot a stastionary target...

the same is correct for any other sniper too except for the range.

but the range of as50 m107 is legit - these kind of weapons are designed to hit targets on such long distances

yet again you can only run short distances with these guns in reality but as there is no weight in game - to NO WEAPON AT ALL - there is no arguement to ban as50 and m107 here...

for example an loaded m249 with 200 rounds weight 22lb and as50 loaded with 5 rounds 27lb - no big difference here

shooting .50 cal hip is possible -

till this day as50 and m107 are still in the game and i see absolutly no reason for a ban besides a majority of players complaining about them - which is still a proof for me that you are in denial of the fact that you simply want this gun banned without any real tradeoff within the current state of the game

Floxer

[Trizzo 632]

finding as50 on crash site 3-5hours

finding prey 1 hour

killing 2 survivors running in the fields 500 yards away by predicting their movement – priceless

Hey thanks for accompanying me zev

atleast some daredevils are with me

Killing someone 500 yards away by predicting movement after running around the bush for 6 hours? Woah, I am astounded by the level of daring.

if you get me wind in this game im in it to support you, cause any kind of realism is cool and adds to the atmosphere and firing it in close quarter from hip is possible even in real life

Yeah and a round house kick to the face is also possible IRL. How many times will it work in a real fight? It won’t. Ever pick up a 50 cal? I have when I was younger. Berrett M99, a lighter version. Try shouldering even a light 50. You will fail. A gun person might be able to position themselves to take a few awkward shots but I will never work in a fight.

both the as50 and the m107 have recoil and you have to center your target again before you can take your next shot

No. Not really. Barely.

shooting a target from over 1000m+ takes either great skill or a target which is not moving

mastering makarov is easy - aim for zombie head(stay in a building so they dont move that fast) and fire

Comparison between exploiting zombie AI and shooting human players tells us what exactly?

your understanding of "fixing" something trizzo is somewhat disturbing to me

you feel satisfied with the solution to rule out the gun completly

but the truth is the as50 and its brother in law m107 are fine as they are - there is nothing unbalanced in them

-Did you address any of the listed issues or others discussed? No

- Did you address Gews damage comparison? No

Engage with the facts, experience and logic.

but skill itself is arguable - some are natural born talents and some struggle - it is not a factor to render something unbalanced - cause your definition of unbalanced is majority of player nothing more...

Skill is arguable? :huh: okay, how?…We might be able to discern what your point was if the sentence was coherent and made grammatical sense.

but in my eyes the whole talk about as50 m107 right now is not about fixing the real issuses, it is way more about selfish players getting rid of something they dont like

It’s clear in your eyes because you clearly have wood for killing players with the AS50 (which is fine). What we have seen is simply projection ala selfish players keeping what they want when it is clearly imba.

One agrement. Add wind they would not be a problem be closer to being sensible. Most people who think they are getting sniped aren’t. It’s not about 50 not having a place in the flavor of the world. The iteration of these 50 cals is unbalanced for the listed reasons. Fix problem or remove. Given the calibre of player that tends towards a 50 I’m happy it is being removed. Different from wanting it gone forever or being opposed to insta gib rifles (within reason). Not welcome in current form.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Trizzo

[hung_alchemist@yahoo.com.hk 22]

Hey just add more weapons in the game, maybe add M110NVS and L115A3

[-Gews- 7443]

Hey just add more weapons in the game, maybe add M110NVS and L115A3

SVD non-camo.

[Trizzo 632]

SVD non-camo.

So long as i have a Vss Vintorez...i ache to salute/wave/menace somone and accompany it with my gruffest rendition of "get out of here stalker"..

I'm caught between two thoughts. I like the thought of a 10/22 and liberal approach to the flavor being open to all survialist/rifles but the call to go all in ex soviet bloc is pretty strong too

:( can't decide

Edited May 28, 2013 by Trizzo

[floxer 11]

look trizzo i wanted to point out that it takes quite a while to get an as50 or m107 - which is not the case for a makarov. and yea its daring to shoot .50 cal - you could be on the receiving end one day. so living in a world with snipers to kill you with just one shot is more daring to live in a world without them.

Floxer, on 28 May 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

both the as50 and the m107 have recoil and you have to center your target again before you can take your next shot

No. Not really. Barely.

well as far as i experienced the as50/m107 it is quite on par with the other snipers

Floxer, on 28 May 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

shooting a target from over 1000m+ takes either great skill or a target which is not moving

mastering makarov is easy - aim for zombie head(stay in a building so they dont move that fast) and fire

Comparison between exploiting zombie AI and shooting human players tells us what exactly?

you gave me the example to compare makarov and as50 - i found it suiting :) or are you a makarov player hunter?

im not uptodate on the dmg numbers - but i know that as50 is able to take out everything with one hit - this is one of the main reasons i like this game ... you know the constant fear of getting shot - instantly - nowhere safe - easy to kill hard to survive - as long as i played dayz all my friends and i shared this joy for fear. and its now on the verge of getting outruled by majority of players who dont like the constant fear - who dislike the tension of an as50 and render it op.

i can only hope and pray that this call for security is torn apart before more weapons are gone

l85a2 gone as50 m107 next on the list - i bet dmr will be discussed next

[Mos1ey 6301]

I've taken out multiple players before any of them could get a shot off with an M4. You don't need .50cal rifles in DayZ to instil fear. ;)

[thelonewarrior 886]

Really the AS50 and M107 require little skill at all, I've never been a good shot with a sniper rifle in arma but recently played wasteland a lot

Found an M107 and got 26 kills out of 30 rounds all between 700 and 1300m, that's the first and only time I've used the M107, and you really think its not unbalanced? That I can just pick it up and use it with deadly efficiently

And no none of those targets were spawn kills and around half were running, I missed 4 out of 30 shots

In another life I found a DMR and decided to see how that was like, out of 40 rounds I got About 10 kills, why?

Because it requires skill and because I suck at sniping at more than 500m, I know the dmr is made for shorter ranges but that's not the point

The sooner you all realise that it's a going to be a survival game whether you like it or not the sooner you can decide whether the standalone is for you or not

Saying they belong in this game is stupid, if your sitting around sniping at that range clearly you are just doing it to grief people

Edited May 28, 2013 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[tajjuk 65]

Because you wouldn't see AS50s and M107s in a place like Chernarus, much less carried by "survivors". Maybe a Zastava.

On the other hand I have no problem with .50s on PvP servers that aren't going for realism... private hives can and should add whatever they like. I only have a problem with them in "vanilla" DayZ and only for the reason mentioned...

I've seen you post this several times and I'm sorry I just don't see this as at all important.

Arma 2 used the Chernarus map and set it in a soviet like state.

Day Z the mod then happened to use that map, so why should the mod base it's decisions of a world that was in reality created for Arma?

Firstly it's a post apocalyptic state, I would imagine their would be mass migration of people, especially in Europe where you would see a vast collection of NATO weapons being used, secondly if we go by the notion that Chernarus represents the source area for the outbreak would it not make some sense that elements of all the worlds military might have been deployed there in an effort to contain it?

Finally if you want to go location wise, there are blown up Humvees everywhere and they are primarily used by the US so couldn;t all the US guns appear from them?#

Saying they are not 'realistic' is not a great reason to remove them IMO, saying they are not balanced gameplay wise is a better one.

[Zev. 28]

First of all thanks for the info on taking heli's down I'd gathered as much but I just wanted it confirming. I've taken down two choppers so far both with the AS50 because I know it's got the power to do so would I engage with a DMR?...probably not. Both were vulching on bambi's with the gunners so I intervened.

All this realism talk is a bit weird for a game infested with flesh eating zombies anyway! So you've removed the .50's because they are 'overpowered' but in this same 'realistic' world you expect to get up from being hit by a M24 or even a CZ?

What next? Choppers are OP! Banz them plx!

Yeah and a round house kick to the face is also possible IRL. How many times will it work in a real fight? It won’t. Ever pick up a 50 cal? I have when I was younger. Berrett M99, a lighter version. Try shouldering even a light 50. You will fail. A gun person might be able to position themselves to take a few awkward shots but I will never work in a fight.

You even lift bro?

[floxer 11]

unfortunatly my friend i do need it

i need it like i needed the good old l85a2

this game is going in the wrong direction by trying to "balance" something ...

this game is not competetive - it never was and never will be

there are weapons out there who surpasses other kind of weapons simply by the fact that their ammunition size is greater or their firepower is higher - and i want them all in - with different rarity - and a wide varity of special and common attachments like thermal view - every kind of zoomoptic

god kno.. erm sorry hall knows what has happend before the zombie outbreak - looks like some spartans forgot their as50's

f. that blatant bragging about being killed - you are dead and dead people dont talk

live by the rules of the jungle

i have survived the flood of the hackers and i will survive the snipers

and im still asking you are you friendly ....

not everyone who is positve about as50 m107 is a camper or cherno sniper - tired of these assumptions

im a f. hero man getting shot in the face point blank on a medic mission with an m107 hip fired - even possible in reality

but thats the deal you make decisions - some work, you make friends - some dont, you're on a mission of revenge

Floxer

[fluxley 2228]

.

not everyone who is positve about as50 m107 is a camper or cherno sniper - tired of these assumptions

And not everyone against the AS50 is a victim, You're as guilty of making these assumptions as others,

My biggest problem with the AS50 and M107 is the ability to just run around firing from the hip with perfect accuracy, its a joke.

Simple solution as has been mentioned plenty of times is to replace them with something like the Lapua or KSVK, just simply because they are bolt action and so fire a lot slower.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Fluxley

[floxer 11]

damn you u r right

i wrote in a style that reffers you the "anti" side as victims - well thanks to clear my mind - sorry about that :o

however dont you feel the need for an easy kill weapon?

i think its mandatory for this kind of game

its like the bfg of doom - i dislike the idea of getting things completly out of the game - tweaking its rarity wouldn't kill the problems it brings with it - but it worked until now and it would reduce the amount of players ever carrying such a gun ...

i mean the sound alone lets my hands shake and my heart race. arent these reactions more valuable than balance?

combat situations are like a rollercoaster in terms of adrenalin pumping and an as50 is the looping...

Floxer

[-Gews- 7443]

Finally if you want to go location wise, there are blown up Humvees everywhere and they are primarily used by the US so couldn;t all the US guns appear from them?#

Saying they are not 'realistic' is not a great reason to remove them IMO, saying they are not balanced gameplay wise is a better one.

Blown up Humvees and such are everywhere because that's whats in the ArmA editor, it's also a convenient excuse to throw a massive amount of US weapons into the game... there are many, many more Western weapons than Soviet ones.... that's ridiculous, and the worst part is how the loot tables leave out many different types of Soviet weaponry in favor of a different M4 variant, etc.

Also I don't like balancing arguments at all when it comes to guns.

[Buffjesus 357]

seems things still havent changed around here

[Inception. 9443]

seems things still havent changed around here

Nice to see your name again

[tajjuk 65]

Blown up Humvees and such are everywhere because that's whats in the ArmA editor, it's also a convenient excuse to throw a massive amount of US weapons into the game... there are many, many more Western weapons than Soviet ones.... that's ridiculous, and the worst part is how the loot tables leave out many different types of Soviet weaponry in favor of a different M4 variant, etc.

Also I don't like balancing arguments at all when it comes to guns.

Well that brings me back to the point about Chernarus in the first place, it's there (in an ex-soviet state) because of Arma not because of Day Z, Who's to say the Zombie Apocalypse didn't take place in downtown Tokyo or in the rolling hills of Yorkshire or the American Mid-west.

Add more gun variety don't take them away IMO, Add more soviet guns to the loot tables with similar chances to their american counterparts.

Add wind effects to make long distance sniping more difficult and add more recoil to the AS-50/M107 to make hip spamming tougher.

Really the AS50 and M107 require little skill at all, I've never been a good shot with a sniper rifle in arma but recently played wasteland a lot

Found an M107 and got 26 kills out of 30 rounds all between 700 and 1300m, that's the first and only time I've used the M107, and you really think its not unbalanced? That I can just pick it up and use it with deadly efficiently

And no none of those targets were spawn kills and around half were running, I missed 4 out of 30 shots

In another life I found a DMR and decided to see how that was like, out of 40 rounds I got About 10 kills, why?

Because it requires skill and because I suck at sniping at more than 500m, I know the dmr is made for shorter ranges but that's not the point

The sooner you all realise that it's a going to be a survival game whether you like it or not the sooner you can decide whether the standalone is for you or not

Saying they belong in this game is stupid, if your sitting around sniping at that range clearly you are just doing it to grief people

not good add sniping, misses just 4 shots at 1000m against moving targets, kills 26 people in wasteland but doesn't get flanked.

LOL

Don;t make stuff up to make a stupid point.

The bit in bold is just your opinion and is terrible attitude, If you really think this mod is so popular because it's 'just a survival game' you are clearly misguided, the standalone will be guided by the demand i,e. the cash.

[ZomboWTF 527]

Sniper Rifles will never be balanced, even if they need 3 shots to kill a person, just because you are most of the time out of range to counter-act

I would miss the M107, but the AS50 is just too much power for a survival game, one shotting with a potential 10 ound semi-auto clip?

I would love to see more weapons for mid to close-range combat in the standalone, like shotguns and hunting rifles, military grade weapons should be extremely rare, like "once in a week find" rare

Most of the normal apocalypse "survivors" wouldn't know how to operate an AS50 anyway, its way more complex than a M107 which is a simple bolt-action, if you ever find an AS50, it would probably be not ready-to-fire

The less ranged engagements there are available the better, it makes killing people too unpersonal and too easy

[thelonewarrior 886]

Fine ill record it next time, I didn't get flanked because I moved after each time I killed someone, it's not like I was camping in one spot

I was with a group of others on my team, they secured the objectives while I sniped anyone coming nearby

Chenarus is a big place, and I got killed because I ran out of bullets and could shoot back

I'm a good judge of distance and the only reason I got those kills is because the M107 is easy to zero and even if you misjudge by 100 zeroing they still can die if your aiming At their head and it clips their foot so you don't even need to zero it properly

With a dmr you need more practice to work out what it's already zeroed to and how that changes when you zoom in

And also the only moving targets I hit were under 900m, the 2-3 kills I got at around 1200m-1300m were eiether standing still or searching a verchiles and I could just make out ther shape and took the shot

Let's say your right and it's not being geared towards a survival game explain the following:

Zombies in SA will be more of a threat, geared more towards survival

More diseases, infections etc, geared towards survival

Less high end gear and more military assault rifles than snipers, geared towards survival and not pvp( not that you can't pvp)

I'm sure you have valid points, please feel free to tell me what information on the standalone is making it more towards pvp

And if you even knew anything about rocket and his ideas ( which I follow) you will know he has said many times he is making his own game based on what he wants and not what people want, do some research and you will find this out, in some of his first videos he said he wanted to make a survival game/mod and has continued that idea since

I've done my research, do your own

Edited May 29, 2013 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[BarryManalow 1]

as there is no range finding indicator attached to the optics, like the svd has

tell me you are trolling here.

the mildots themselves offer rangefinding, diffrent magnifications diffrent formula offcourse.

take average target height of 1.80 m.

With m24 for example, zeromaxrange=1000M.

so 1800:(the height of target in mildots)= the range. No special gimmicks involved.

Not sure of dmr because of multiple zoom levels. and lack of zeroing.

But furreelzies.

1 hit footkills are ridiculous.

when, you can do spamfire from``hip``

when there is no wind to deal with.

when dayz uses the stock arma wounding model.(wich is why footshots are lethal)

Lets not even talk about realism here please.

Gameplay wise it would make it more involved.

In the same way that removing 3rd person changes the dynamics of a firefight(wich is good)

In real life we do not have a personal uav hovering over our shoulders.

And we sure as heck cant run for miles with a 14kg weapon.

So either we go full blown out realism, wich also means the end of 50 cals as they are used now. Or we atleast try to keep gameplay in mind.

With all honesty every attempt at ``refuting`` the elimination of 50s seems like a crack addict making excuses to keep smoking.

Edited May 29, 2013 by BarryManalow

[Buffjesus 357]

Nice to see your name again

playing some breaking point with my buddies in prep for the alpha release

gotta get that pregame on :thumbsup:

[floxer 11]

i came here not to discuss on realism - i came here because im very disappointed about the upcoming patchchange regarding the as50/m107

reading the pages i found out that the arguementation towards this decision is based on realism.

now i dont agree with that completly - dont get me wrong there are flaws in these guns - but its true for any other gun aswell (lack of wind, lack of weight, lack of blowback)

i have recogniced that a vast majority of the players is unhappy with the end game snipers and i respect that - a change in something should be done to keep everyone happy

but your reaction to this problem is nuts ... you totally ignore the players who are pro as50/m107 - you ban them in 1.7.7 -

and why is that? you are unable to find a solution that fits every one and go with the majority

now you can be cynical and call this democracy but i for one would rather like to see a tradeoff

and there are plenty of options within the current state of the game to get an approach to this

reducing the rarity, increasing the recoil zoomed out - are some ways to work on this problem

@barry

yea you are correct in the game there is a way to indicate range with mildot system - but i was on the realism-train - in rl however not, cause you dont know the target size :P

1 shot foot kills the same - realism

14kg running star - realism

i have shown many pros to keep this gun ingame - i described which atmosphere this gun brings to the game atleast for me and some others (adrenalin pumping)

i connect very satisfying and absolute hatred with this gun but this discussion itself is only on the level of game correction aka balance

so far

Floxer