Earning Persistent Gear in SA

[rossums 2190]

I'm also 100% for this but I never got much support for obvious reasons. xD

I'd like it if your own body and tent were invisible to you upon respawning. Real permadeath.

Well, it's more logical than looting yourself, I guess.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I'm bumping this and adding a thought:

What if these "achievements", or whatever we want to call them, are unlisted and never posted by the developers? It seems most players like the idea of showing their stripes in some way. Because I agree, achievements shouldn't be grinding, if you all remember my original post asked, what's the point of grinding for a compass every time you die.

Example Reward: You move a little more quietly through the woods. How? Well, you don't realize it but DayZ has a built in reward for traveling over 1000 miles by foot in game. Does this make sense? Any thoughts?

Edited May 15, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Ken Bean 175]

I'm bumping this and adding a thought:

What if these "achievements", or whatever we want to call them, are unlisted and never posted by the developers? It seems most players like the idea of showing their stripes in some way. Because I agree, achievements shouldn't be grinding, if you all remember my original post asked, what's the point of grinding for a compass every time you die.

Example Reward: You move a little more quietly through the woods. How? Well, you don't realize it but DayZ has a built in reward for traveling over 1000 miles by foot in game. Does this make sense? Any thoughts?

The loot is supposed to be the reward. If you walk into a town, what's the reason for? Yep, finding loot. It's a very important part of the game. That's why I don't understand the folks that constantly request the loot to be reduced.

If you'd remove or drasticaly lower the loot spawns, the only remaining reward would be player kills.

(Other pvp online shooter have no loot at all. Guess what they are doing the whole day. ;))

Regarding the achievements of earned start gear like a map or compas, it would just give you a reason less to go into a town.

So my suggestion would be to increase the overall ammount of valuable items which can be found. We would have a longer gearing up time and more items to play with.

Well, it's more logical than looting yourself, I guess.

Technicaly you are not looting "yourself". You just start fresh being a new survivor. If you are not familar with the game and if you died far away from your starting point, you most likely won't ever try to find the old char, since running straight from south to north can take 45 minutes. Without knowledge of the map and good skills in navigating, it even may take way longer. Also, you don't know if the body is still there and unlooted.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

And i just found the ultimate solution....

On death, your tent is moved to a random point of the map :)

[Dr. Goner 661]

And i just found the ultimate solution....

On death, your tent is moved to a random point of the map :)

I love this idea!

[wooly-back-jack 294]

yeah sounds good, but can we trust the game to not spawn the tent in the middle of a field or something lol

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

yeah sounds good, but can we trust the game to not spawn the tent in the middle of a field or something lol

How is that a problem?

[Dekkymane 145]

No this isn't world of warcraft. Fuck, no.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Personally im against giving anyone a slight advantage over anyone els when they spawn no matter how small that advantage may be.

Part of the fun of dayz if grinding for gear.

Finding gear has never been a grind for me. Are you playing the same mod?? :D

[methr1k2dop3 323]

i personally think it wouldn't work.

servers want to create a unique environment and maybe these persistent items are small but its not how the server creators visioned their world.

maybe a option on servers to turn on and off persistent items, that might be pretty cool.

[Jalen 7]

If you want to create more RPG elements in DayZ, the best way to do so is to either, A: Have a skill system which breaks immersion, or B: Have a class system with varying pros and cons.

Also, my own thoughts on permadeath in DayZ? There isn't any, there never was, and there never will be. Casual players will never, ever accept permadeath, EVER.

[Ken Bean 175]

If you want to create more RPG elements in DayZ, the best way to do so is to either, A: Have a skill system which breaks immersion

How does a skill system break immersion?

Also, my own thoughts on permadeath in DayZ? There isn't any, there never was, and there never will be. Casual players will never, ever accept permadeath, EVER.

May I ask you what do you think what perma death means?

Player died ---> global ban?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Jalen 7]

May I ask you what do you think what perma death means?

Player died ---> global ban?

I like the example of Diablo 2 Hardcore, it provides a real sense of permadeath. You die, you lose everything, with no chance of getting it back. The closest you would come to that in DayZ would be a ban until that particular server restarts and thus all the stuff you lost goes away. As well as deleting all of your tents, etc. Hyperbole will get you nowhere with me btw.

Also the skill system to which I am referring would be that you do something a million times and level up so to speak. I think the class system is a better way to do this. Just having prior experience relieves the game of the need to make you do your chores before you can play, and gives you a sense of purpose in the game world Examples: player character was a mechanic in prior to the events of the game, therefor he is more able when it comes to repairing vehicles. Generally speaking being an autodidact in everything is pretty fucking hard.

[Ken Bean 175]

I like the example of Diablo 2 Hardcore, it provides a real sense of permadeath. You die, you lose everything, with no chance of getting it back. The closest you would come to that in DayZ would be a ban until that particular server restarts and thus all the stuff you lost goes away. As well as deleting all of your tents, etc. Hyperbole will get you nowhere with me btw.

Well, you cant have a persistent world if you reset just anything you did. So yeah, certain items might still be there and will not be destroyed. Since the items are not yours and basically everyone can use them, it would be strange to destroy all the items you may have touched. Your last character will leave some marks, so to speak. But besides of the fact that these maks and items don't die with you, you actually die when you die. There is nothing that could be done to make your last character more than permanently dead. And this is how death in DayZ already works. Yes it is permanent, you start an entirely new character, you are not reincarnated or sth. The game already has perma death. The only issue some people have is that each character leaves some traces in a persistent world. So what, why not?

If that's your concern, you should request items and tents to not to be persistent (or not for you or sth like that).

But this already has been discussed.

-> If you destroy all your stuff, then the bandit who hunted you down will not be amused, since he feels betrayed for his loot.

-> If you make your stuff from your last char inacessible only for you, then there still would be the ability to recover your gear if you play in a team, so another player could save the gear for you.

Either way, some folks will either get around the item restrictions anyway or they player who tracked you down will lose his reward.

Another option would be to kick the player from the server and guide him to another random one, but this would make teamplay impossible.

Also the skill system to which I am referring would be that you do something a million times and level up so to speak. I think the class system is a better way to do this. Just having prior experience relieves the game of the need to make you do your chores before you can play, and gives you a sense of purpose in the game world Examples: player character was a mechanic in prior to the events of the game, therefor he is more able when it comes to repairing vehicles. Generally speaking being an autodidact in everything is pretty fucking hard.

Skill systems can be done in very different ways. I wouldn't say that every skill system will break immersion. That's either nonsense or your understanding of the term immersion is very different from mine. It even can increase the immersion, this depends how it would be implemented.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Jalen 7]

I guess my distaste with how DayZ has progressed since its creation is that I prefer Roguelikes, and DayZ, in my opinion is moving away from that direction. Oh well. Good points btw.

[Ken Bean 175]

I guess my distaste with how DayZ has progressed since its creation is that I prefer Roguelikes, and DayZ, in my opinion is moving away from that direction. Oh well. Good points btw.

The problem really is that you get used to the game world and that you'll have after life knowledge which may help the new char quite a great deal. But on the other hand, this afterlife knowledge is sth every player will have. So it's not really an unfair advantage. A huge random generated world would be interesting, but it should be quite hard to develop for a title like DayZ. Would be easier with worlds which would be not persistent at all.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

Gear should be earned by looting and will stay on your character until he/she removes it or death.

Everyone should start with absolutely nothing.

This will make gear very valuable over time and will cause players to be more cautious over what they do.

[Crazy one 124]

Gear should be earned by looting and will stay on your character until he/she removes it or death.

Everyone should start with absolutely nothing.

This will make gear very valuable over time and will cause players to be more cautious over what they do.

Totally agree, also once dead all your stuff disappears ingame.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Crazy one

[wisper 61]

As objected by a number of players, including myself, any form of permanent item or skill would not be realistic, both during playing (where people would endanger their character without fearing the finality of death) and at respawn (where u would emerge with loot or skills and no real explenation of how u got them.)

To me it is a clear cut decision that, beyond a visual "bonus" nothing else could transfer to respawn. Skins, or tattoos that u could add on depending on past achievements are the only viable benefits that u should be rewarded with.

There is a further point that bothers me though and it has to do with the player's knowledge of the world and the buddies that the respawned avatar "inherits". I like it, I want it, but I cannot give a realistic explenation for it. The best I could come up with has to do with voodoo and spiritual transfer, but I am "grasping at straws" here. The idea is that the respawn undergoes some kind of "possession" by the spirit of your recently departed avatar. It's like, not only the body is immune to the virus, but the spirit is hard to be done with... Told u it's flimsy, any better ideas?

[Firewarrior64 69]

I would not like persistent gear like compasses or such things, but I would really like persistent clothing (unless it gives you an advantage like bulletproof vests). For example, you should get a 'medic uniform' after 50 blood transfusions but be able to put it off, unlike the hero skin which you have to wear at all times (unless you find a ghillie suit), if I'm correct.

[Dr. Goner 661]

As objected by a number of players, including myself, any form of permanent item or skill would not be realistic, both during playing (where people would endanger their character without fearing the finality of death) and at respawn (where u would emerge with loot or skills and no real explenation of how u got them.)

To me it is a clear cut decision that, beyond a visual "bonus" nothing else could transfer to respawn. Skins, or tattoos that u could add on depending on past achievements are the only viable benefits that u should be rewarded with.

There is a further point that bothers me though and it has to do with the player's knowledge of the world and the buddies that the respawned avatar "inherits". I like it, I want it, but I cannot give a realistic explenation for it. The best I could come up with has to do with voodoo and spiritual transfer, but I am "grasping at straws" here. The idea is that the respawn undergoes some kind of "possession" by the spirit of your recently departed avatar. It's like, not only the body is immune to the virus, but the spirit is hard to be done with... Told u it's flimsy, any better ideas?

So you can't keep your skills, fire building, mechanic, etc. But, for some reason, you get to keep your tattoos?? I like the idea of earning something but I feel like it's such a personal preference to some people that this discussion is going nowhere. Earning a compass and a tattoo are not inherently different. Compass is a physical object, tattoo is a physical object, also, the tattoo itself could prove to be far more valuable than a compass in the standalone. Anyway, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that you keep nothing and start new, but is each life a different character or do I relive again as DrGonzo? I feel like the restart is the point of logical inconsistency, but how could it be fixed or improved? Maybe it's perfect the way it is? Edited May 20, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Ken Bean 175]

So you can't keep your skills, fire building, mechanic, etc. But, for some reason, you get to keep your tattoos?? I like the idea of earning something but I feel like it's such a personal preference to some people that this discussion is going nowhere. Earning a compass and a tattoo are not inherently different. Compass is a physical object, tattoo is a physical object, also, the tattoo itself could prove to be far more valuable than a compass in the standalone. Anyway, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that you keep nothing and start new, but is each life a different character or do I relive again as DrGonzo? I feel like the restart is the point of logical inconsistency, but how could it be fixed or improved? Maybe it's perfect the way it is?

Earning persistent skins or tatoos could also be seen different. It's all about the views people have. E.g., if you think, that keeping tatoos or skins is unlogical, why do you think it is more logical that every survivor starts having the same few skins? Why do you think, it might be more immersive, that noone ever starts with a tatoo? Because everyone just starts tatooing himself a few months after a zombi apocalypse happened?

You see, such things always have two sides and a huge problem can be made up out of nothing. It's just the peoples view they developed. Some think, it is not right, to have tents which survive the owners death. Others may think, why should a tent die with you? Why should items be destroyed? This is not logical as well.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Sutinen 635]

No.. DayZ Standalone is supposed to be even more realistic or authentic than the current mod. Making random items spawn out of nowhere is unrealistic.

Now now, I know you're writing that "zombie game lol how can a zombie game be realistic", that is irrelevant and annoying.

Oh yeah and did I say NO!!

-> If you destroy all your stuff, then the bandit who hunted you down will not be amused, since he feels betrayed for his loot.

He meant that once you die (For whatever reason) you will be kicked+banned (From that server) until next restart and transferred to another nearby server. Your dead body, tent and vehicles are on that server and they will be gone after the restart. Now, the vehicles should only respawn if someone else doesn't touch it. That means that another guy could rob your vehicle before the restart. And that also means that your friends can store your loot in that vehicle, but that's besides the point.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Sutinen

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I fail to see how a tattoo can be compared to actual lootable tools and gear in any way.

Unless your tatto points North/deflects bullets/lights fires/can fly, it doesn't, in itself, hold any particularly advantageous traits.

The best I can picture it as is a form of recogntion. On "respawn", the player may be controlling a different avatar, but they'll most likely have the same face, or at least hold the same affiliations.

Personally I'd like to see an entirely fresh character on spawn. No gear, no tattoos/scars/beards (things which develop over time or show your age/experience). Just a randomly selected outfit made up of civillain casual clothing, followed by a pat on the back and away you go.

If skills are ever involved, they definitely shouldn't carry over between lives.

Giving more meaning to your character's life should be the target. Persistent ANYTHING devalues it almost entirely.

[Ken Bean 175]

He meant that once you die (For whatever reason) you will be kicked+banned (From that server) until next restart and transferred to another nearby server. Your dead body, tent and vehicles are on that server and they will be gone after the restart. Now, the vehicles should only respawn if someone else doesn't touch it. That means that another guy could rob your vehicle before the restart. And that also means that your friends can store your loot in that vehicle, but that's besides the point.

What's the point in kicking and banning when a friend can save the gear? Just for handicaping lone wolfes? You know that it is not nice in everyones eyes to be set in disadvantages against other player who play in teams/clans...

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ken Bean