Earning Persistent Gear in SA

[Dr. Goner 661]

yeah but this thread is about the SA

I know but there will be private servers available eventually in standalone as far as I understand. Not to get off topic. I see what you mean though, it's a fine line between earning perks and buying perks.

[Element47 2480]

aesthetics, not prostethics!

unlockable skins seem pretty easy to accomplish.. and they should not carry over. people do not care about dying because they can regear within an hour or even less.. if you however unlock that cool skin for your hatchet or you got that beard or that cool hero scarf for your char, and you know you go back to that noob look again once you die, people would actually start to care about surviving instead of playing instagib with their AS50s in elektro

gameplay-affecting unlocks though are a big no-go

[applejaxc 2500]

Dying = losing.

Losing = loss of gear.

[Never 237]

One aspect that I like about DayZ is that once you are dead, thats it. Time to start all over.

Slight shame DayZ isn't like that at all then.

[SmashT 10907]

BEARDS ARE THE ANSWER.

[applejaxc 2500]

Slight shame DayZ isn't like that at all then.

If players didn't run back to their bodies, it wouldn't be. If the players died that close to the coast, anyway, that they could just run back to their bodies, then they're:

1: Too noobish to leave the coast

2: Bandits

3: Pussies

You can't help players being lazy pricks. Tents are a fantastic idea, although they should be disabled after you die (so that you can't loot your stuff back, which is freaking stupid).

Underground, persistent bases are one of the dumbest fucking ideas I've ever read about the SA... and Hall confirmed them... *shudder*

[Never 237]

You can't help players being lazy pricks. Tents are a fantastic idea, although they should be disabled after you die (so that you can't loot your stuff back, which is freaking stupid).

Underground, persistent bases are one of the dumbest fucking ideas I've ever read about the SA... and Hall confirmed them... *shudder*

Yeah its pretty much that.

Thing is, DayZ sounds great on paper, but when you try to introduce any kind of 'endgame' you hit the huge stumbling block that any kind of 'permanence' basically breaks the game structure fundamentally..

Say we distill DayZ down to its main two goals, Primary, and Secondary:

Primary goals: Scavenge, Stay alive, Keep moving.

Secondary goals (aka 'Endgame'.): Car/Vehicle, Stash gear, Tent cities, (eventually) Bases.

Looks great at first, but when you examine it more closely, EVERY Secondary goal, apart from one, directly contradicts the Primary goals. The only secondary that doesn't is a vehicle.

The main flaw is the loot system.

Basically, we are all loot cycling, the effectively endless supplies provided by the loot system as it stands removes the need for nomadism totally. Where does all this stuff come from? Why is there a permanent supply of food/guns/bullets/fuel/etc/etc when there is NO supply chain/commerce/production/etc/etc?

Simply put, if you can simply walk in and out of an area repeatedly til you get a favourable spawn you'll get players doing just that and becoming sedentary just like we are seeing.

So yeah, I've come to the conclusion that 'permanence' is Dayz Achilles heel.

It would be great fun to play knowing that if you do fuck up, that is IT. But in its current run'n're-gear format it makes a mockery of its own main premise.

A difficulty i'm sure Hall had realised by know, if he hasn't, oh dear..

Edited May 9, 2013 by Never

[Dr. Goner 661]

If players didn't run back to their bodies, it wouldn't be. If the players died that close to the coast, anyway, that they could just run back to their bodies, then they're:

1: Too noobish to leave the coast

2: Bandits

3: Pussies

You can't help players being lazy pricks. Tents are a fantastic idea, although they should be disabled after you die (so that you can't loot your stuff back, which is freaking stupid).

Underground, persistent bases are one of the dumbest fucking ideas I've ever read about the SA... and Hall confirmed them... *shudder*

I've actually had some great times running back to my body. I love the idea that someone may get to it before me. I ran 12000 meters from Kamenka to Willow Lake the other night, nearly starved to death just as I reached Polana. It was honestly the most fun I've had in the mod in a long time. The sigh of relief I breathed when I saw my ATV and body still there... It was awesome.

[Dr. Goner 661]

If players didn't run back to their bodies, it wouldn't be. If the players died that close to the coast, anyway, that they could just run back to their bodies, then they're:

1: Too noobish to leave the coast

2: Bandits

3: Pussies

You can't help players being lazy pricks. Tents are a fantastic idea, although they should be disabled after you die (so that you can't loot your stuff back, which is freaking stupid).

Underground, persistent bases are one of the dumbest fucking ideas I've ever read about the SA... and Hall confirmed them... *shudder*

Also, what's your suggestion. As soon as you're dead, your key is disabled and you're never allowed to play the game again?

[Dr. Goner 661]

Yeah its pretty much that.

Thing is, DayZ sounds great on paper, but when you try to introduce any kind of 'endgame' you hit the huge stumbling block that any kind of 'permanence' basically breaks the game structure fundamentally..

Say we distill DayZ down to its main two goals, Primary, and Secondary:

Primary goals: Scavenge, Stay alive, Keep moving.

Secondary goals (aka 'Endgame'.): Car/Vehicle, Stash gear, Tent cities, (eventually) Bases.

Looks great at first, but when you examine it more closely, EVERY Secondary goal, apart from one, directly contradicts the Primary goals. The only secondary that doesn't is a vehicle.

The main flaw is the loot system.

Basically, we are all loot cycling, the effectively endless supplies provided by the loot system as it stands removes the need for nomadism totally. Where does all this stuff come from? Why is there a permanent supply of food/guns/bullets/fuel/etc/etc when there is NO supply chain/commerce/production/etc/etc?

Simply put, if you can simply walk in and out of an area repeatedly til you get a favourable spawn you'll get players doing just that and becoming sedentary just like we are seeing.

I agree with you completely. It seems like one solution would be MUCH larger maps. I think we can look to all of the zombie comics, movies, and literature for some answers. In DayZ mod the zombies aren't dangerous. If that is changed, the game changes dramatically. In all zombie stories, it is the number and ferocity of dead that force sometimes disparate groups to unite for the sake of survival. The zombie apocalypse is almost always endured by brief periods of extremely dangerous "open" world movement and longer stand offs in some sort of dwelling. I like the idea of earning (surviving very difficult elements, zeds, starvation etc.) your way into an instanced town, mall, village, could add to the "fun" of the game.

Anyway, after reading everyone's suggestions. I tend to agree that any persistent gear shouldn't be an option. It seems like the conversation is moving towards a larger theme of what should "death" mean in DayZ SA. Would people play the game if there was a possibility that 100 hours of game play could be TRULY undone by some stoned twelve year old? I'm not sure, just asking.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Nothing should carry over from the previous life. Players with tons of game experience already start off with an advantage over a noob. This shouldn't be made worse with extra gear at spawn.

Now getting some type of useless aesthetic item for accomplishing X task Y amounts of time in a given life wouldn't be bad if it's something subtle. Key words: useless and subtle. Something like mismatching shoelaces or a sheath for your knife so it's strapped on your leg. It wouldn't actually impact the game but would indicate your playstyle to others. The amount of time survived should grant the magic beard and length of time wearing the same piece of clothing should grant the dirty hobo look.

basically, no perks of any sort.

[Mos1ey 6301]

This would be a massive slap in face to perma-death, really can't see this happening and rightly so.

[Dr. Goner 661]

This would be a massive slap in face to perma-death, really can't see this happening and rightly so.

Not to be contrary, but is perma-death a reality in DayZ? We have to admit, no matter how you slice it, you start over when you die. We can even run back to a tent, base, or dead body to gear up. So the question is what is the difference between earning a map and having to go back to the grocery for a map every time you die? I guess, each time you go to retrieve your map, there's a slight chance for excitement, but I just head to Polana where I can loot without fear :P

I think earning perks is many things, most of all probably a bad idea, but in no way is it a "massive slap in the face of perma death". A massive slap would be restarting with all your gear in the spot where you died.

[WiFiN 55]

I've been reading through some older topics that touch on the subject of achievement systems and end game content.

What do you all think about this? Instead of earning trophies or whatever, the achievements you earn could be persistent gear.

I'm not talking about earning an AS-50 after killing a hundred zeds, but what about earning a compass after your 100th blood transfusion?

I think this would work in several ways as a portion of the end game and also to reward consistent players. It would alleviate some of the grinding after each death. Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

You are in the wrong neighbourhood, kiddo...

Edited May 9, 2013 by WiFiN

[DontTrustPubs 17]

This contradicts everything DayZ is. The difference is in the standalone loot will be dynamically spawned, so that map may or may not be there.

[Draco122 412]

So would this skill bonus reset upon death or be persistent. I really like where you're going with this just curious.

Yes, I had intended the idea to be reset upon death, no persistant skill bonus's. It makes "experienced, veteran and expert" players more unique the longer they survive with the various actions they perform, but again they are usually only minute chances and changes.

In addition, I'd like add onto that idea, rather than have a "predetermind" set-up where you get each bonus skill at levels 100, 200 and 300 and so on, instead I propose the effect be random of gaining an additional skill bonus between 10 and 50 tries as one example.

This way it could emulate the feel of how the character is learning the more they do an action, smaller influences such as time between the action and action in question could determine the rate of progress and progress gained.

[applejaxc 2500]

Also, what's your suggestion. As soon as you're dead, your key is disabled and you're never allowed to play the game again?

No, that's not at ALL what I'm suggesting; that would be stupid. What I'm suggesting is that the player can't access their body or tent.

[Ken Bean 175]

I'd suggest skins to earn which can be chosen every time you start a new life (link, a topic which originaly was meant to be taken serious.^^) This is the part which carries over from life to life. Kind of reflects your backsory or your overall development in Dayz.

Also I made a few character improvement suggestions here, but I don't think that one should be rewarded any further than your current life. So if you die, you should start fresh, without any benefits but cool skins you can chose from.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Positronica 30]

One metric that would be really interesting to see is what the break down of DayZ's player base is at any one time... specifically, what percentage of players at any one time are relatively new, and what percentage have been playing the game long term? I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that the ratio for those numbers skews very heavily towards lots of new players, and only a small core of long term players. Or in other words, of the players who give DayZ a try, only a small number stick around in the game for an extended period. Now, maybe those numbers are ok for DayZ, but I'd say for any game, the higher your churn rate, the shorter your shelf life is for continued development.

How this all pertains to the OP's post, is that I think a strong case can be made DayZ's strong hardcore nature when it comes to death and starting over completely from scratch does not foster long term appeal for the game. I know that there's plenty of players who will say they like it the way it is, and there's plenty who will say they even think the hardcore/permadeath nature of the game should be taken farther, however, I will make the claim that such players are a minority when it comes to gamers. Now, maybe that minority is enough to support DayZ, but if you look at the gaming industry in general, there really aren't any success stories for multiplayer, character driven hardcore/permadeath games. Maybe DayZ SA will be different, though. Maybe the early game will be dynamic and enjoyable enough that players won't mind starting over from scratch every time they die, even after playing the game for months, but personally I doubt it. My prediction is that once the initial hoopla over DayZ SA subsides, what we'll end up with is a highly churning player base of newbs doing the early game grind a bunch of times before they move on to another game out of either boredom or frustration, while the small number of long term players in the game bypass the early game either by always running to their corpse/tent, getting free loot from a friend, or by only making use of the game for the dash-and-grab PvP battles in the starting spawn areas. Maybe that will be fun enough for some people, but if DayZ really wants to leave a lasting mark in the gaming industry, then it's going to need a way for players to make long term achievements in the game that aren't as fleeting as the next sniper's bullet.

[pbrunk 114]

I'd suggest skins to earn which can be chosen every time you start a new life (link, a topic which originaly was meant to be taken serious.^^) This is the part which carries over from life to life. Kind of reflects your backsory or your overall development in Dayz.

Also I made a few character improvement suggestions here, but I don't think that one should be rewarded any further than your current life. So if you die, you should start fresh, without any benefits but cool skins you can chose from.

I agree. You can't mess with gear. Gear is the great equalizer. Unlocking new outfits could add to the gameplay.

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

I don't think persistent gear is a good idea, it's not a bad one but I don't think it's a good one either for the game. A compass is an extremely invaluable item in DayZ and it would remove the point of looting areas in search of a compass.

In my terms, I believe that doing a monotonous or tedius task should warrant a small experienced based skill bonus. An example is doing 100 blood transfusions in Standalone leads to much more experience gained in doing them and so, the end result is less likely hood of someone getting an infection upon a transfusion and significantly less chance of loosing blood (possibly gaining a little more)

really i dont know how many times i had no idea where i was mapless, and used a compass to get to a landmark (NWAF, Stary Sobor, electro, cherno, NEAF)

[jackghnnm78@gmail.com 23]

I do love you, but I'm not in favor of achievements or earning items through task oriented game play.

I am going to agree with this hermanbro

[OTehNoes 21]

I can think of two things kind of on the subject, the first being days survived shouldn't increase when you aren't playing on the server, it should be only in game playing time.

Secondly I think improvements like aiming recovery from running should gradually reduce if you run a lot. Lets face it, if you run a lot, its gonna be crazy good cardiovascular exercise, the more you did it, the faster you'd be able to recover as you'd be less out of breath!

[Dr. Goner 661]

One metric that would be really interesting to see is what the break down of DayZ's player base is at any one time... specifically, what percentage of players at any one time are relatively new, and what percentage have been playing the game long term? I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that the ratio for those numbers skews very heavily towards lots of new players, and only a small core of long term players. Or in other words, of the players who give DayZ a try, only a small number stick around in the game for an extended period. Now, maybe those numbers are ok for DayZ, but I'd say for any game, the higher your churn rate, the shorter your shelf life is for continued development.

How this all pertains to the OP's post, is that I think a strong case can be made DayZ's strong hardcore nature when it comes to death and starting over completely from scratch does not foster long term appeal for the game. I know that there's plenty of players who will say they like it the way it is, and there's plenty who will say they even think the hardcore/permadeath nature of the game should be taken farther, however, I will make the claim that such players are a minority when it comes to gamers. Now, maybe that minority is enough to support DayZ, but if you look at the gaming industry in general, there really aren't any success stories for multiplayer, character driven hardcore/permadeath games. Maybe DayZ SA will be different, though. Maybe the early game will be dynamic and enjoyable enough that players won't mind starting over from scratch every time they die, even after playing the game for months, but personally I doubt it. My prediction is that once the initial hoopla over DayZ SA subsides, what we'll end up with is a highly churning player base of newbs doing the early game grind a bunch of times before they move on to another game out of either boredom or frustration, while the small number of long term players in the game bypass the early game either by always running to their corpse/tent, getting free loot from a friend, or by only making use of the game for the dash-and-grab PvP battles in the starting spawn areas. Maybe that will be fun enough for some people, but if DayZ really wants to leave a lasting mark in the gaming industry, then it's going to need a way for players to make long term achievements in the game that aren't as fleeting as the next sniper's bullet.

I completely agree with you. I've been wavering back and forth as all the suggestions are posted. But it seems, in general, there are many more elaborate and well thought out suggestions concerning earned perks than there are dayz IS permadeath folk on here. In other words, supporters of perma death, please write something more than gear = life, life = dayz, death = no gear.

I really want someone to explain to me why it's so important to go through the mundane motions of gathering toolbox, compass, map, etc. etc. etc.? And before the haters go on hating, I have already made a few counter points to my own argument, such as, re-gearing can lead to fun gameplay. But honestly, once you've played for a hundred hours or more, the game should have evolved to a point where those initial stages don't make sense anymore. I also realize that dying in dayz should be far worse than dying in any game in the history of games, so I'm not against any ideas suggesting that veterans (having more experience and knowing better) shouldn't be punished even more for dying. An extreme would be: the longer you live in the game, the longer you're locked out upon death.

Seriously though, there are some great suggestions concerning earned perks here. Just because we didn't have it in the mod, doesn't mean we can't have it in the standalone. I mean, we couldn't enter half the structures in the mod, what's going to happen when the rarity of accesible buildings is lost. I'm being mildly sarcastic but come on, this game is successful because we're all open to ANY possibility of what it can be.

Edited May 14, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Mos1ey 6301]

No, that's not at ALL what I'm suggesting; that would be stupid. What I'm suggesting is that the player can't access their body or tent.

I'm also 100% for this but I never got much support for obvious reasons. xD

I'd like it if your own body and tent were invisible to you upon respawning. Real permadeath.

Edited May 14, 2013 by mZLY