Is using teamspeak 'cheating'?

[Captain Speirs 9]

Discussion. To hear other people's thoughts, I guess. :S

Indeed. I was just thinking that it was a meaningless debate since there's not really much to do about it? I mean, lets say Rocket doesn't want to allow TS, Skype and what not. What is he supposed to do about that? And it's not cheating! You can use side channel for talking anyway, altho most servers doesn't allow that due to the nuisance.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Indeed. I was just thinking that it was a meaningless debate since there's not really much to do about it? I mean, lets say Rocket doesn't want to allow TS, Skype and what not. What is he supposed to do about that? And it's not cheating! You can use side channel for talking anyway, altho most servers doesn't allow that due to the nuisance.

Nothing. I think he just wanted to hear other people's opinions on whether or not it's cheating.

[iegle 117]

It's basically like using a headset in real life so I don't see what's wrong with it

I voted yes. If not cheating then it is certainly exploitative. What's wrong with it is that you don't all spawn with radios. If radios were added as loot so you had the earn the ability to communicate with allies it would be fine in most instances.

If 2 friends on a 3rd party chat are in the presence of a third player who is not, then they have a huge and unrealistic advantage in their ability to coordinate actions while the odd man out is oblivious. All should be required to use direct chat only in such an instance.

[aussiestig 681]

Sure, it's not realistic that you can talk to your friends who are 5km away from from you, but in the real world, people have several ways of communication, radios, cell phones etc. DayZ doesn't have any of this implemented, and the voice chat that is in Arma is very very poor quality.

Voice chat programs aren't cheating, they are just filling the void that is there from the lack of things available to communicate with in DayZ.

[-Gews- 7443]

Do I consider it cheating? No...

Would I prefer they didn't? Yes, in an ideal world players would have to use proximity chat or radios to contact teammates. That's not gonna happen anytime soon since Teamspeak and similar programs are easy to use and provide a great advantage as well as allow friends to talk and chat without any "radio silence".

[dexterwollenburg@gmail.com 14]

Applejaxc and I were debating whether it is cheating to use programs such as teamspeak or skype to communicate in game. He said yes because he considers it an unfair advantage and "everyone who uses a 3rd party, non-DayZ supported program for an unfair advantage is a cheater", I on the other hand do not believe that it is an unfair advantage as all players have access to the program and it is an accepted standard to use these methods of communication.

thanks for backing me up on my topic of group tactics. applejax is an idiot anyway. glad you made this poll!

[TheDesigner 1197]

If 2 friends on a 3rd party chat are in the presence of a third player who is not, then they have a huge and unrealistic advantage in their ability to coordinate actions while the odd man out is oblivious. All should be required to use direct chat only in such an instance.

Ever heard of whispering or giving signals? Since DayZ lacks these features, the 3rd party "exploitation", as few people call it, makes up for it. Give me radio channels, frequencies, character talk volume, and a extensive list of hand signals, I'll use the ingame VOIP.

I feel like I am repeating myself over and over again, because the people against the 3rd party program aren't reading the entire thread. Please read the thread before posting because most of your concerns/arguments are already answered/countered.

Edited April 1, 2013 by TheDesigner

[Inception. 9443]

This

No.

A cheat would be an unfair advantage.

Everyone has the ability to get on a Skype Call with their buddies, therefore it is not unfair. It's a fair advantage, that players have every right to make use of.

This

I see it as an irrelevant argument, people will always find ways to use external voip. Call it whatever you like, it's the norm in online gaming and removing it is technically unenforceable. The only thing developers can do is build a decent in-game voip system to help encourage it's use instead.

And what mZLY said about it being meta-gaming.

It isn't considered cheating, and it never will be.

[-Guardian- 206]

If you really want to get technical, a group with the right tools could have a seperate frequency to broadcast comms on that other people wouldnt be able to hear. so no, its not cheating at all. just a lil more tactical.

I also wanted to add; The military (mainly special forces) has a throat mic so to say that will pick up vibrato in the throat so you could do less than whisper to communicate. Granted, you would think this type of equipment would be extremely hard to get a hold of given the setting for the game.

Edited April 1, 2013 by -Guardian-

[dallas 5195]

People like to play with their friends and for the last couple of years, external voice programs is simply a part of the multiplayer package. DayZ and ArmA have also undergone a long journey from direct channel been completely unreliable to now, where it's working as intended.

Information sharing whether real time in voice or on forums is part of gaming and meta gaming is impossible to prevent. In my community we'd share information, camp locations and advise in a password protected sub forum, because we were at war with another community and we wanted to make sure we weren't infiltrated and our camps discovered.

My only hope is that the same functions of the Stand Alone that should decrease hacking, will also make datamining harder. I think DayZ mod and ArmA's openness made it fairly easy to automate datamining, with a few scripts you should easily print your own maps, designating all the different types of loot spawns and vehicle locations. I hope we get a week or two in the Standalone, before datamining kicks off the whole meta-gaming game, but that might be too optimistic. :)

[Rage VG 4033]

I voted yes. If not cheating then it is certainly exploitative.

That might be true, but the poll was "Is it cheating?" There's a distinct difference between the two. As explained in my first post, the literal definition being an "Unfair advantage". We can all agree it's certainly an advantage, so let's look at the "unfair" bit.

Now, unfair would indicate it is an ability that some players have access to that others do not. However anyone with a microphone and Skype can do it. "What if my Skype doesn't work properly, and doesn't pick up my mic?/Skype makes DayZ lag, so I can't use it?", you say? Well, what if my USB ports don't work and doesn't register my mouse, or if my mouse is broken so I share with my brother, but he's using it? I'm sure that out of the nearly 2 million people playing, there's at least ONE person playing with a trackpad. So since he can't use a mouse, is it unfair that we can?

Of course, the answer is no. One player, or even a minority of players can't expect other players to hold off on something they are capable to do, and have every right to do, just because the first group, for any number of reasons is not doing it.

Same thing can be said about those who don't, or can't, use Skype. The facts are that ANY person has the capability to get Skype and a headset at the same cost as it would for another player. There's nothing "unfair" about it.

And so, we're only left with "Advantage". Is having an advantage really cheating? Of course not. The game is built around advantages. Spawning in a different place would give you better or worse loot to begin with, this could be considered an advantage. Should we all spawn in the same spot, with all guns spawning equally everywhere?

Sure, you could argue it's cheap. You could argue it breaks immersion. But you cannot argue it is cheating, and that is a fact.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Rage VG

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

It provides an advantage over using the built-in chat in direct-comm mode because Z will react to direct chat and not to TS/skype/...

Solution to avoid any problem: level the playfield and make Z not react to direct-comm (the feature is borked anyway) and just pretend TS/skype is a radio.

_Anubis_

I play FSX multiplayer and there is a nice application called FSHost that links the aircraft radio frequencies to different TS rooms, food for thought for the SA..

[Mos1ey 6301]

That might be true, but the poll was "Is it cheating?" There's a distinct difference between the two. As explained in my first post, the literal definition being an "Unfair advantage". We can all agree it's certainly an advantage, so let's look at the "unfair" bit.

Now, unfair would indicate it is an ability that some players have access to that others do not. However anyone with a microphone and Skype can do it. "What if my Skype doesn't work properly, and doesn't pick up my mic?/Skype makes DayZ lag, so I can't use it?", you say? Well, what if my USB ports don't work and doesn't register my mouse, or if my mouse is broken so I share with my brother, but he's using it? I'm sure that out of the nearly 2 million people playing, there's at least ONE person playing with a trackpad. So since he can't use a mouse, is it unfair that we can?

Of course, the answer is no. One player, or even a minority of players can't expect other players to hold off on something they are capable to do, and have every right to do, just because the first group, for any number of reasons is not doing it.

Same thing can be said about those who don't, or can't, use Skype. The facts are that ANY person has the capability to get Skype and a headset at the same cost as it would for another player. There's nothing "unfair" about it.

And so, we're only left with "Advantage". Is having an advantage really cheating? Of course not. The game is built around advantages. Spawning in a different place would give you better or worse loot to begin with, this could be considered an advantage. Should we all spawn in the same spot, with all guns spawning equally everywhere?

Sure, you could argue it's cheap. You could argue it breaks immersion. But you cannot argue it is cheating, and that is a fact.

You could argue that any advantage is an unfair one. Having a better weapon in-game for example, or having a better PC, mouse and mouse pad.

'Cheating' implies dishonesty, immorality and rule-breaking.

[Blondedash 403]

You could argue that any advantage is an unfair one. Having a better weapon in-game for example, or having a better PC, mouse and mouse pad.

'Cheating' implies dishonesty, immorality and rule-breaking.

in a world where what the op said is cheating it would be cheating someone having a GTX 690 over someone else having a GTX titan this is basically communism which cant be done on the internet.

[Rage VG 4033]

You could argue that any advantage is an unfair one. Having a better weapon in-game for example, or having a better PC, mouse and mouse pad.

'Cheating' implies dishonesty, immorality and rule-breaking.

But it's not unfair. By very definition, it would mean that it's an advantage others can't achieve. It's possible for EVERY player to find better weapons, and ANYONE can update their rig.

[Roark92 90]

i dont really know why everyone has such a solid definition of "cheating" already set in their minds. its a broad term. you cant say that just because the advantage is available to all that it isnt cheating... that argument is so absurd it amazes me so many people agree with it...

"cheating" CAN be done by anyone... harder for some, easier for others, impossible to none... any one of us can rob a bank (successfully or not), or hack a dayz server... so how can anyone claim that an option being universal makes it morally or socially acceptable?

just because we are all capable of killing those we disagree with, and in spite of possible moral objections we ALL still are capable, means its ok for us to do so?

i dont even disagree that it isnt cheating, because its too vague a term to describe a thing like this. id say its more a culture, gaming culture supports the use of 3rd party voice programs so no we dont consider it cheating... it can go either way in a society though so i think some of these points should be considered a bit more before being cemented into the ground as "fact".

I think OP used the wrong word for sure. they meant to say exploitative. being able to magically communicate with someone 200 km away with no radio or speak loudly 5 feet from 2 people and have only one of them hear you is absolutely ridiculous, im sure everyone can agree on this.

if radios are implemented well, we would all have a lot more fun not using 3rd party programs... but like smash said you cannot enforce something like that so i personally dont believe dedicating time to things like radio is even worth it, it will just be a novelty and take a backseat to the voice chat powers that be.

[Mos1ey 6301]

But it's not unfair. By very definition, it would mean that it's an advantage others can't achieve. It's possible for EVERY player to find better weapons, and ANYONE can update their rig.

Anyone can buy cheats.

Again, I'd say fairness is linked more to morality than it is to whether something is available to anyone.

[Kra 151]

I feel as though the two different schools of thought here are related to those inclined to immersive/role-playing type gameplay, and those who just play the game. Immersive players are the ones who skulk around every corner, spending most of their time in 1st person, never agroing a zombie. The general player just runs as fast as they can around zombies because they know the limitations of the game and exploit that. To an immersive player, even that is cheating.

I think what would be nice to see would be more popular moderated "role-playing" servers with rules like SS13. Although the ones I have seen in the past never seem to last long, because 1st person only etc, just seems to be too damn scary for the average player. People need that voip crutch because isolating themselves, not being able to talk to someone else, makes them feel too uncomfortable. Sure you wanna play with your mates in a group or whatever, thats great, just don't berate other players because they like to play the game a bit differently to enhance their immersion.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Kra

[Rage VG 4033]

Anyone can buy cheats.

Again, I'd say fairness is linked more to morality than it is to whether something is available to anyone.

Arguably, no. You agree to the TOS in order to use the game, prohibiting this. So technically, we're ALL unable to get these, considering that the majority of players obey the TOS, the logical hypothetical situation would imply that the terms of service are being respected all-around, thus those who breach the TOS are gaining an unfair advantage.

If we are assuming the opposite, and that nobody follows the TOS, then it would be fair as those who do cheat simply get banned, as stated in the TOS.

It's a given that morality would go hand-in-hand with fairness, but that should dictate what is fair. There's nothing "immoral" to chatting on Skype, anyway. As the post above me states, I could perhaps only be playing this game casually, chatting to my friends, and one of them might possibly also be within the game also. Trying to dictate the playstyle of another person for self-immersion is selfish, and thus immoral.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Rage VG

[Mos1ey 6301]

Arguably, no. You agree to the TOS in order to use the game, prohibiting this. So technically, we're ALL unable to get these, so those who go against the TOS are gaining an unfair advantage.

Plus, considering that the majority of players obey the TOS, the logical hypothetical situation would imply that the terms of service are being respected all-around. If we are assuming the opposite, then yes. It would be fine because those who do cheat simply get banned, and that's fair.

It's a given that morality would go hand-in-hand with fairness, but that should dictate what is fair.

You pretty much said no and then agreed with me. xD

Anyone can violate the ToS, there's nothing physically stopping you, only your conscience i.e. moral judgement. That's the difference between an advantage and cheating. :)

[Blondedash 403]

anyone like my comment. (sorry hate being left out).

[Rage VG 4033]

You pretty much said no and then agreed with me. xD

Anyone can violate the ToS, there's nothing physically stopping you, only your conscience i.e. moral judgement. That's the difference between an advantage and cheating. :)

Yes, you break the ToS and get banned, hopefully immediately. That's practically the definition of fair.

That applies to every player. Sure, you can do it, but it'll result in not being able to play afterwards. Anyone can choose to do that, if they are stupid enough.

[green_machine 179]

I'd say YES. It's not part of the Arma 2 design and it gives off the same aura as Gamma hacking during the night (Ye its not hacking, i know).

It screws with the original design. It is un-natural.

Me and my friend use it, only because other do. WHICH IS SHIT, Caps intended. We like how the ambient coms work and until radios are added, we won't complain. It's just crap, we're denied the challenge and the chance to grow, in terms of experience and team work.

Teamspeak...Don't get me started. I could go on for days.

Surround a single player with team speak coms.

LEGIT.

Are you KO'd.. don't worry.. talk to your friends with physic powers and let them know you need help... because otherwise, you'll have to rely on team work...... team work means shit. Who has time for that????? I'm busy getting a 16 kill streak.............

EDIT: Oh, it's just a video game? You can do what you want. OK, I'll hack a few things to make myself have some advantage that others dont..... -_- ..... like teamspeak bitches!!!! woo!

Edited April 1, 2013 by DaveZ

[tsandrey 379]

While this all sounds cute on paper, some people maybe wouldn't be able to use direct chat to communicate. How do we set up a tactic before going in a server? What if direct chat isn't working? What if we are too far apart? Using Skype or TS isn't cheating in any defition. Sure, it's more realistic to use "direct chat", but it's not practical at all.

[Rage VG 4033]

EDIT: Oh, it's just a video game? You can do what you want. OK, I'll hack a few things to make myself have some advantage that others dont..... -_-

And you'll get banned like everyone does.