Is using teamspeak 'cheating'?

[Element47 2480]

EDIT for the facebook generation with the attention span of 140 chars aka tl;dr: not every advantage is cheating.

Of course it is an advantage and therefore 'can' be considered as cheating!

Dont you have an advantage when you are able to talk about 1.000meters ingame with your mate while the others have to use direct-com max 80meters?

And PLEASE guys, stop that super old super dumbass kindergarden reasoning about "everybody can go and get this". This is EXACTLY that fucked up attitude hackers and cheaters got! EVERYBODY can go and get the hax no?

Go and get some moral ffs!

i think its important to discern between "immoral" and "advantage" here.

lets talk about advantages over other players here: as i said earlier, being able to coordinate with your teammates is without a doubt an advantage. but having teammates in the first place is already an advantage, one that many do not have. as a fresh spawn, you hav enothing, and you know nothing. you are stranded, alone. having a team waiting for you, having a supply tent so you can regear, is a massive advantage. the argument that you do not spawn with invisible encrypted radio in your inventory is moot in comparison to the fact that you miraculously reincarnate with the knowledge of the tents your recently deceased alter-ego set up, and with a team of friends waiting.. but they are actually not your friends, but friends of your earlier version, right?

you see, this game presents many aspects, in which the pseudo-realism of a stranded survivor awash on the coast of a foreign land is broken for the sake of game mechanics and entertainment value. VOIP communication is an integral part of multi-player gaming, as much as the building of communities. you complain that the metagame of voice-coordinated teams constituted cheating - what about clans? being part of a well-organized and equipped group from the start as a fresh spawn? how immersion-breaking is this? surely you would also advocate outlawing clans in DayZ as cheating and unfair advantage over the "lone wolves"..

as for the morality - lets look at morals within the game. this is a core question of the game as rocket envisioned it. the backstabbing KoS mentality is a direct effect of the fact, that many people will do absolutely everything to "survive" - there ar emany accounts on these forums from players who say, they rather kill a friendly player on sight than take the risk of being shot themselves by a hostile. the amount of paranoia is wonderfully suspensful in this game. this is because many people choose egoism over morals. not all of course - there are many players who follow the principles of moral altruism, a notable example is the formation of dedicated medic clans in the community.

on the "meta-level", there are the percieved morals and ethics of spoiling the game for yourself and others. is it unethical to read guides in advance? is it unethical to use an out-of-game map? is it unethical to organize in clans? use voip? is it unethical to adjust the graphical settings because the blinding effects of the sun may be realistic but really not that fun? is it unethical to use third person while driving a truck? after all you should only see whats in the mirrors. is it unethical to logout for dinner while in a city?

i think there is a consensus among gamers - using direct exploits or modifications of the game to avoid or break game mechanics is unethical - thats what people generally call cheating. reading a newbie guide and thus give you a headstart that you wouldnt have if you only used the means provided by the game isnt, and neither is voip or having your gf bring you sandwich and coffee while that sniper you are stalking for the last hour is alone and hunger and thirst take toll on his attention.

Edited April 12, 2013 by e47

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Of course it is an advantage and therefore 'can' be considered as cheating!

Dont you have an advantage when you are able to talk about 1.000meters ingame with your mate while the others have to use direct-com max 80meters?

And PLEASE guys, stop that super old super dumbass kindergarden reasoning about "everybody can go and get this". This is EXACTLY that fucked up attitude hackers and cheaters got! EVERYBODY can go and get the hax no?

Go and get some moral ffs!

I have morals. I don't cheat. I don't hack. I don't exploit. I don't glitch. I play by the mechanics of the game. The game does not allow me to jump, there for I don't jump. The game does allow me to shoot, and therefore I shoot. Whether it is zombies or players makes no difference to me, though i'd rather shoot at players as they're more challenging to shoot.

Using Teamspeak, or any other voice program, is not cheating the game as it is not part of the game. It is an outside program that does not impact the mechanics of the game. Hacking and exploiting directly impact the game whether they are an outside program or not, ie running scripts, spawning items, teleporting, etc.

Talking on an outside program does not affect the mechanics of the game, therefore no cheating.

You people (yes i'm generalizing the fuck out of that) that claim those who use TS are cheating should learn to understand what cheating actually is. Communicating with teammates is not cheating, it's smart play.

Now if I were to use some outside program that allowed me to fly around like superman with a looted AS50... then yes, I would be cheating.

Go cry to your mommy about cheating, because everyone else thinks you're a tool.

[Heiduk 265]

Using Teamspeak, or any other voice program, is not cheating the game as it is not part of the game. It is an outside program that does not impact the mechanics of the game. Hacking and exploiting directly impact the game whether they are an outside program or not, ie running scripts, spawning items, teleporting, etc.

I don't know if you're trolling or actually believe this, but I'll bite.

1: "It's not part of the game so its not cheating." By that logic aimbots that simply look for color patterns in a video stream without modifying any of ARMA's files aren't cheating either, right?

2. "It doesn't impact the mechanics of the game." If Teamspeak didn't impact the game nobody would use it. Intel is always more powerful than firepower and that is what Teamspeak provides: intel and perfect stealth.

DayZ doesn't have a rule book and to date I'm not aware of the developers making any specific attempts to discourage third party VOIP so in the strictest sense Teamspeak isn't cheating. However, I do think using it detracts from everyone's experience.

How fun is it to sneak up on another group of players and eves drop on their conversation? How about trying to arrange the betrayal of one of your new found traveling companions without alerting him? What about coordinating a stealth attack with your squad while maintaining radio discipline. All of these complexities disappear if everyone is using Teamspeak, and this game is already to shallow.

Limiting yourself to in-game comms increases the depth of the game and makes it harder. For me that equals more fun. Sure it would be great to have some of the ACE/ACRE features like whisper mode and hand signals but even with the imperfect system we have now you won't find me using third party comms anytime soon.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

I don't know if you're trolling or actually believe this, but I'll bite.

1: "It's not part of the game so its not cheating." By that logic aimbots that simply look for color patterns in a video stream without modifying any of ARMA's files aren't cheating either, right?

Maybe you missed the part where I stated that TS does not add, remove, or alter anything in the game mechanics (code). Adding an aimbot is adding to the GAMES CODE an ability to pick up where players are and SHOW them on your screen through the USE of the games code.

Tell me where TS, as an outside program, adds anything to the mechanics of the game

2. "It doesn't impact the mechanics of the game." If Teamspeak didn't impact the game nobody would use it. Intel is always more powerful than firepower and that is what Teamspeak provides: intel and perfect stealth.

Of course TS impacts the game. But it impacts it through the use of COMMUNICATION with teammates. Are you saying that we should not play with teammates? If you say yes, then HOW THE FUCK are you supposed to communicate with them to find out where they are, what server they are on, etc. Telephone? Snail mail?

DayZ doesn't have a rule book and to date I'm not aware of the developers making any specific attempts to discourage third party VOIP so in the strictest sense Teamspeak isn't cheating.

Thank you for stating TS is not cheating.

However, I do think using it detracts from everyone's experience.

YOU think it detracts from YOUR game play. I think it ENHANCES my game play. This is opinion, and thus is not fact. Thus it is not cheating to use TS. You may prefer to simply shoot zombies and loot. I prefer to loot and hunt players. No way is wrong because fun is determined by the player. I have fun playing with friends online. Therefore my fun involves the use of TS.

How fun is it to sneak up on another group of players and eves drop on their conversation?

I sneak up on players all the time. Whether or not they are talking makes no difference in what I am going to do. All that matters to me is that the person I snuck up on is NOT someone of my guild. Sneaking up on players just to listen to their conversation seems like a boring thing to do. I'd rather sneak in and then take them out. Maybe with an axe. But that's me, and what I determine to be fun.

How about trying to arrange the betrayal of one of your new found traveling companions without alerting him?

I don't travel with people who are not in my guild or on my teamspeak. If you're not someone I can trust (starts by being on our TS) then you get a bullet to the head. So this scenario does not happen to me.

What about coordinating a stealth attack with your squad while maintaining radio discipline.

Now how are we supposed to coordinate then? Handle signals? This isn't real life dude.

All of these complexities disappear if everyone is using Teamspeak, and this game is already to shallow.

You ever tried to make an organized raid on a group of players that are unaware you and your team are around? If you didn't have any communication you'd blast your friend in the back because there is no way to distinguish friend/foe other than communication and disciplined situational awareness.

Take a simple spotter for an assaulter. Assaulter goes into town while spotter stays on hill and provides sniper support. If the assaulter doesn't let the sniper know his position through the use of communications (TS) then there is a decent that sniper is going to plug his friend because he was unable to discern his friend from foe.

Limiting yourself to in-game comms increases the depth of the game and makes it harder

This is your opinion, not fact. I disagree with it. I have plenty of fun while playing with my friends on TS.

For me that equals more fun. Sure it would be great to have some of the ACE/ACRE features like whisper mode and hand signals but even with the imperfect system we have now you won't find me using third party comms anytime soon.

That is your choice. But have fun trying to find your friends while only using the PROPER in game chat. If TS is no good for you, then side chat should be no good for you.

Now riddle me this...

If TS were cheating, why have the devs never said it is?

If TS were cheating, how would you enforce people to not use it?

If TS were cheating, how would you be able to play with your friends in game? To me this one screams for you to play the game as a solo player, hoping to find a friend in that gaming instance, and never keeping any friends for longer than that gaming instance.