Is using teamspeak 'cheating'?

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

i personally consider it cheating

even though it's allowed, it still effectively works like a cheat - like it allows you to do things you shouldn't be able to do.

remember ghosting in CS? exactly like 3rdp (wallhack) or nameplates & distance markers (ESP)

i am a hardcore player, and using stuff like teamspeak or external maps leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

however, without TS i wouldn't be able to play with my friends, because they for sure wouldn't pass on teamspeak just to add more realism. direct chat is to clunky and not really useful in combat situations.

also, playing without teamspeak will put you in a major disadvantage when playing competitive, because you can expect that everyone else is using it.

so i am ok with using it, as long as there is nothing equal in the actual game.

for now i just restrict my inner hardcore nerd to when i play alone.

i hope rocket will get something to work with radios and some sort of ACRE functionality in the SA...

Edited April 3, 2013 by Azrail

[liquidmind 320]

Having read through the last page of comments, I get the impression, that the major "advantage" most people are talking here about is "knows people" and "doesn't know people"

As a fact, a group of 3 or 4 friends, playing together, knowing each other, having communication outside of the game, even when not playing, have a lot higher chance of survival in DayZ than a Solo-Player without a Mic.

But that's game mechanics. There are clans out there one could join if he wanted to play in a group all the time.

My personal concern is only regarding one specific advantage: Not being heard by others, while ingame-communication is.

If I raid nwaf with a guy I met randomly, and we aggro all of NWAF because he tells me that there is an AK in the last room of barracks, And another group comes in, chatting freely without any zombie knowing they are there, it is an advantage that is not intended by the game mechanics.

I for myself think that cheating always requires intent. Something you weren't aware of, could not have been prevented and therefor cannot be cheating.

TS is very common in almost any online game and many people use it as their standard means of communication with their friends, as they are almost all the time playing something. There is no intent of them cheating. They just talked to their friends, like they always do, told them about that great game dayZ and they joined it. Nothing unusual.

But never the less, if you ever gloated to your friends about being right behind that stupid sniper and are about to shoot him, you already cheated on that sniper being able to hear you.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

For everyone that thinks using TS is a cheat (so hilarious), you better stop using:

- Side chat to talk to anyone not in your immediate area.

- Using any chat/voice channel in game that is not in your immediate area.

- Stop using Skype and TS yourself so that you're not a hypocrite.

By your logic we shouldn't be able to talk to anyone unless they're next to us, or have a in-game radio that lets us talk up to a couple Km away.

Direct chat allows us to speak to 80m. Stop using it as it's not realistic.

Group chat, stop using it unless they're close to you.

Vehicle chat, stop using it unless they're close to you.

There you go, you can play the game as it was meant to be played in your eyes.

If you're using those then you're cheating... by your stupid logic.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

It is a game and games are supposed to be fun and social. At some point we need to turn off that urge to scream "but realism" and realize something like being able to communicate with your friends/teammates is a basic function in most multiplayer games. Arma 2 communication system sucks, so players are forced to go to these third party programs. Beyond it being a fact that really can not be changed, it should not be changed.

Being a lone wolf is the persons choice, they have the exact same access to TS, Skype etc. as other players and just make the decision not to find a group. I am saying this as someone who has been a lone wolf for at least 50% of my time in DayZ, I really only like playing with IRL friends and most of them are over DayZ at this point. It is a playstyle of choice, I would not want to punish others just because I made that choice.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

This thread is pure gold. I love seeing the defensive reactions people have over the suggestion they're cheating. The "logic" they spew to convince themselves they're not is right up there with WarZ fanboism.

For everyone that thinks using TS is a cheat (so hilarious), you better stop using:

- Side chat to talk to anyone not in your immediate area.

- Using any chat/voice channel in game that is not in your immediate area.

- Stop using Skype and TS yourself so that you're not a hypocrite.

By your logic we shouldn't be able to talk to anyone unless they're next to us, or have a in-game radio that lets us talk up to a couple Km away.

Direct chat allows us to speak to 80m. Stop using it as it's not realistic.

Group chat, stop using it unless they're close to you.

Vehicle chat, stop using it unless they're close to you.

There you go, you can play the game as it was meant to be played in your eyes.

If you're using those then you're cheating... by your stupid logic.

Except for the direct chat, I don't use any of those. But, if I did I'd be confident enough to admit it's cheating.

I don't give a shit how other players play their dayz, but when they try to say it's not cheating, I'm not going to sit silent. Cheating being "too strong of a word" is fucking hilarious, what are you guys....12? You can sugar coat the word, it's still cheating.

[rn_max 202]

Not this again.

Short answer is NO.

This topic can be closed now.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

I don't give a shit how other players play their dayz, but when they try to say it's not cheating, I'm not going to sit silent. Cheating being "too strong of a word" is fucking hilarious, what are you guys....12? You can sugar coat the word, it's still cheating.

You think everything is cheating though, so to meet your standards would be impossible in the first place. Also were you not educated enough to understand what nuance means or to understand the concept? But even if I accepted your argument that it is cheating, I would just say get over it because it is now just reality.

[entspeak 374]

Direct chat is limited to 40m, not 80m and, is pretty realistic as a game mechanic. Vehicle chat already requires you to be either inside or close to the vehicle... which is pretty realistic as a game mechanic. I agree about not using side or global chat to discuss the game.

And I'm not against using teamspeak to talk to friends in game... the problem arises when you use teamspeak as part of the game. A common occurrence is that a teammate dies and gives away the position of his killer to his teammates over teamspeak. Nobody is going to seriously argue that's not ghosting; that's not cheating, are they? So, yeah, I'll change my mind in that account. Using TS that way is cheating.

Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. So, yeah, use TS to chat with friends during the game, but don't use it to your advantage as part of the game. That, unfortunately, requires a level of discipline most are unwilling to commit to.

So, nothing can be done. People will continue ro do this; they just shouldn't piss and call it champagne. Call it what it is... using TS in that way is cheating.

[Raged 187]

Cheating? No. Immersion Breaking? Yes.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You think everything is cheating though, so to meet your standards would be impossible in the first place. Also were you not educated enough to understand what nuance means or to understand the concept? But even if I accepted your argument that it is cheating, I would just say get over it because it is now just reality.

Not everything is cheating. Why the fuck would you want to 'meet my standards'? I'm not running a server or making the game. Feel free to do whatever floats your boat. You even quoted me saying that.

There's nothing for me to get over. I have no problems with any of this. I'm not asking for persecution against teamspeak users. I'm just here trying to share my opinions about why I think it's cheating. Cheat all you want, I care not.

If you (or anyone) wants to have a rational discussion about this, speak like a mature adult without throwing in subtle insults and questioning my intelligence. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're any less intelligent. Please, be as blunt and critical of my words and ideas as you wish,(god knows I will be about yours) but just leave the personal insults for the school yard.

[DemonGroover 8836]

If you use it to gain an advantage over another player (ie: giving the whereabouts of a bandit's location after he just shot you) how can this not be deemed 'cheating' by that bandit?

[Blondedash 403]

If you use it to gain an advantage over another player (ie: giving the whereabouts of a bandit's location after he just shot you) how can this not be deemed 'cheating' by that bandit?

true but this in real life could happen via walky talky.

[iegle 117]

Not this again.

Short answer is NO.

This topic can be closed now.

Awesome. Thanks for stopping by. I guess the rest of us can all pack it in now, RN_Max has shamed us all with the depth of his wisdom.

[DemonGroover 8836]

true but this in real life could happen via walky talky.

Of course, but as yet no radio exists in game.

But i also don't know of any astral radio that allows dead people to tell their friends where a bandit is camping.

Oujia Boards maybe?

Awesome. Thanks for stopping by. I guess the rest of us can all pack it in now, RN_Max has shamed us all with the depth of his wisdom.

Yep, there is a fine line between clever and stupid.

Edited April 4, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Blondedash 403]

Of course, but as yet no radio exists in game.

But i also don't know of any astral radio that allows dead people to tell their friends where a bandit is camping.

Oujia Boards maybe?

good point but you wont stop people from doing it. if they want easy they want easy.

[entspeak 374]

good point but you wont stop people from doing it. if they want easy they want easy.

That's been the general consensus. There's no way to stop this form of cheating, people will do continue to do it... I just think people should call a spade a spade.

[Hetstaine 10852]

deleted. Could not be bothered.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Hetstaine

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

There are zillions of in-game & out-game (e.g. TS or skype) features which can be exploited to gain advantages to oneself or the clan, e.g.:

- nametags which allows to detect players hidden

- 3d view to see behind walls

- chat to inform friends about that sniper location after being killed

- spawning and go looting your own body

- telling your friends where you dead body is so they can loot it

- duping items

- using Alt-F4

...

Some are worse than others, but all share the basic concept that "if I do that I will have an edge over players *not doing that*" . Simple enough.

_Anubis_

[rn_max 202]

Of course, but as yet no radio exists in game.

But i also don't know of any astral radio that allows dead people to tell their friends where a bandit is camping.

Oujia Boards maybe?

Yep, there is a fine line between clever and stupid.

Quite.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Not everything is cheating. Why the fuck would you want to 'meet my standards'? I'm not running a server or making the game. Feel free to do whatever floats your boat. You even quoted me saying that.

There's nothing for me to get over. I have no problems with any of this. I'm not asking for persecution against teamspeak users. I'm just here trying to share my opinions about why I think it's cheating. Cheat all you want, I care not.

If you (or anyone) wants to have a rational discussion about this, speak like a mature adult without throwing in subtle insults and questioning my intelligence. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're any less intelligent. Please, be as blunt and critical of my words and ideas as you wish,(god knows I will be about yours) but just leave the personal insults for the school yard.

Oh I am sorry, I did not know that calling it fucking hilarious to not call it cheating and then calling anyone who takes that stance 12 year old was an invitation for an adult conversation. My bad apparently I do not understand tone, so was that tone one of rational discussion or hostility?

Now on to an actual rational discussion, I see where you are coming from up to a point and that point is making a blanket statement on using these programs as cheating. Is it against the TOS to use these programs? Can using these programs result in a global ban? The problem I see is there is no functioning system in the game for group play (how do you meet up, even the map markers are unrealistic did that X with text show up through magic) and these programs fix that shortfall. So if I am using it for social interaction and meeting up with a group I fail to see that as cheating. If I am using it to achieve true "ghosting" (not what DayZ players turned the word into but when you relay information when you are dead or should otherwise be knocked out of the fight) then I would call that cheating. Unfortunately the Arma 2 and DayZ communication system is terrible, so unless that oversight is fixed these third party programs are naturally going to fill the void.

So my biggest problem with what you said was how you said it (frankly like a dick) and the absolutist statement you made. Ghosting is cheating, using TS, Skype, etc is not automatically cheating. See the nuance?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Zombie Jesus

[Dayzo 182]

I wouldn't call TS cheating. The server I play on (WIREWORLD UK) strongly encourages players to use the TS.

Not only does this level the playing field, it also helps to create a server community, since we all get to know each other.

I do wish there was a way that could stop dead players from passing information on to their team though.

[Kra 151]

Well this certainly turned into an ..interesting debate. I pity the poor OP who probably watched this thread unravel in both shock and awe lol.

Look, bottom line is, imo THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER. It just depends on the way you are playing.

And I'll add down the bottom here, whoever's idea it was to make zombies agro from direct chat without some kind of volume detection, needs a swift kick to the head. We need a 'whisper' before you go and do that otherwise it really does make the ingame comms useless. (At least I think that was in a vanilla server..)

[Rage VG 4033]

If you use it to gain an advantage over another player (ie: giving the whereabouts of a bandit's location after he just shot you) how can this not be deemed 'cheating' by that bandit?

Because he went into conflict fully aware of this possibility, and the fact that everyone will most likely be doing it means that it's not even that unlikely to encounter. It's simply something more or less everyone does that's highly effective.

[Sakka 28]

I don't believe that it is cheating. I play with friends or even random survivors I meet and we always use TS to communicate. It makes the game much more enjoyable.

One thing I would be totally fine with and would actually enjoy is if the game automatically synced up to in game direct to your TS PTT key or continuous. So you could talk to your friend that is 3 towns away on TS but you would also be talking in direct so anyone near you can hear you talking to no one.

[UK#1 Bud 87]

It provides a platform for community, and given the poor quality of the ingame chat, we sometimes have 10-15 players in the same channel working together! Makes for some great clan wars and events.