one thing that bugs me about pvp whiners..

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

Have you been in a real survival situation ever? In the military every? Boyscouts? Camping? Watch Survivorman? Bear Grylls? Damn kids these days.

Listen up and listen good. You want and need other people around you.

I want the same entourage following me that Benny Hill has around him. :)

[Rifle Eyez 34]

Ha - this was just a general musing with myself really, never expected so many replies. I agree there needs to be a balance between no PvP and kids picking up the first gun they get and deathmatching on the coast however...it's part of the game. At least it makes cities somewhat dangerous. I honestly don't think they should come in and make the zombies 10 times as hard to discourage PvP, I think players SHOULD always be the main threat. Humans are smart, intelligent, calculated, can work together, and can do the craziest things when they feel desperate...people will do anything when they hit rock bottom. That is the most interesting mechanic, if it focused on PvE with a side of PvP that would get incredibly boring. I know it's different for everyone, but just play L4D, Dead Rising, Dead Island if you wanna kill ''zombie hoards!11''

My logic is that whilst it is a ZOMBIE survival simulator, that doesn't mean it's not simply...a post-apoc survival simulator. It's not L4D, Dead Rising etc. In the mod the zombies are just a backdrop and I think it should stay that way. I don't think they shouldn't be improved on however.

Hell, from my personal point of view the most exciting potential with the standalone, and even the mod and the genre in general is player interaction and game mechanics in a post apocalyptic world with no law and order, rules, structure etc rather than some ''infected'' or ''zombies'' wandering around. That excites me more than PvE.

I could individually reply to some comments but I just don't have the energy....was just a general argument that i've never seen used. In tons of post apocalyptic scenarios humans are our own worst enemy.

[liquidmind 320]

You have a a point. However, it is easily solved by not being a bandit and therefore not getting the bandit skin. Think of the bandit skin as being a way to identify people. So what you're suggesting would be the equivqlent of, "That guy matches the description of a psychopathic murderer who has been killing people for no reason. But, what the hell, I am going to just walk up to him and start talking." That would be dumb, don't you think? What else is the point of the bandit skin than to warn people that you have murdered?

Too bad there's not a reward for capturing bandits alive, that could make things more interesting. Throw them in jail, let them try to escape... or get rescued by their bandit buddies.

It's NOT easy not to become a bandit.

I only shoot in self-defense, but it happened that I found 2 players who immediately went into attack-mode when they saw me, but I managed to take them out before they could take the first shot. Everything in their behavior told me that there is no doubt that they want to kill me. but just because I fired first, I got the 2 kills and the bandit skin.

As someone who plays alone, There is no one I could bloodbag back to health to regain humanity. But it does not make me a bandit in the sense of DayZ. It's just that the humanity system is fundamentally flawed.

Just because someone has a bandit skin does not mean anything in dayz at the moment. It only says that you shot at someone at one point. You don't even have to kill him. Being driven over with a car moments later will still give you the kill, as you were the last one shooting at him.

[Zoop 343]

The problem is that the mod is currently stagnant. There isn't nearly enough content in it to keep players occupied for long. If you don't shoot other players, what is left to do? Run around the map and collect gear? Because we've already done that millions of times.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

I honestly don't think they should come in and make the zombies 10 times as hard to discourage PvP, I think players SHOULD always be the main threat. Humans are smart, intelligent, calculated, can work together, and can do the craziest things when they feel desperate...people will do anything when they hit rock bottom.

Considering how PLAYERS will always be present, why does that mean the zombies should be dumb-ed down?

Why can't both PLAYERS and ZOMBIES be the main threat?

Edited March 16, 2013 by OFC_Bill

[krihelion 175]

I don't care about the KoS thing. But do you really think if you walked around the corner in a real zombie apocalypse that you would spray down the other human being?

Yes, my life is worth more than anyone elses and i would never risk it.

[p4triot 207]

Zombies being harder is a must, problem is the way people wants to make them harder. Some of them dont want zombies to be harder but impossible (and I mean literally impossible) and others doesn't have a trully perpespective of what would happen with their ideas.

"Zombies are gonna be harder by just making them hit harder and ammo more scarce!!! yay, this way Im gonna be killed less by PvP :D!!!" ...../facepalm.... The only way I spend ammo is against players so doesn't matter if ammo is scarce, I will always have a bullet for you :) Unless you get rid of fire weapons from the game (this is when the "imposible" level enters in as I commented).

"Make food extremely rare, force players to survive!" ... /facepalm v2.0 ... same as before. Unless you make them to a impossible level, when only luck and not skills can save you, then it will always be a way to become fast and eficient and the only ones having problems getting food will be the newbies. Those who suggests thinks like that never ever played an MMORPG? Lots of companies have tried to reduce the gap between news and old players by hardening the stuff and they just get the opposite. Unless, ofc, it reaches impossible levels, when only luck & randomness enters the game and then the difficuly turns in annoyance.

Balancing a game is an ART, a difficult art needing of subtle psychology. You have to aknowledge the huge difference between difficulty and annoyance and to visualize if your updates are part of the one or the other. You have to "force" players to play the way the game is intended without actually forcing them, and there's many ways to do that. You have to know the gamer nature better than your own, to have pscyhologyst knowledges. And then, only then, you are prepared to create a balanced and fun game.

Speaking in terms of Day Z, this game screwed balance since day one. And adding updates & stuff aint gonna change it (at least not in a good way). Things should have been focused a lot different from the beginning.

Edited March 16, 2013 by p4triot

[spankerfist 44]

I think the walking dead gives a fair impresson on how it would be. People wouldnt kos but if you end up in some situation where its either you or them

[Death_Dealer 3155]

It's very, very hard to play a true bandit and rob people for their gear.

They either abort or immediately start shooting you.

[Darkwater (DayZ) 63]

In my opinion it seems like you've misunderstood the ones that "whine about PvP" in DayZ. Personally, I welcome it. I love it. It adds more to the experience when I know I could die at any moment. However, DayZ should NOT become a deathmatch game, which in turn is what those said "whiners" are worried about. People have started treating the game as just that, deathmatch, with no worry or care about their own safety beyond either not shooting before it's "safe" and they can kill the opponent within seconds or from sniping far, far away.

If you want to bring "reality" into the discussion, would you start to SEEK out other surviving humans just to kill them? Would you go to a army base with the sole purpose of killing others that might be there for supplies? Would you not even think for a second that they might be important to someone? Maybe they have children and family that they need to support and protect.

Of course, that's not an issue in a game like DayZ, but before you even think about saying something ludicrous like "In reality... blah blah" and defend random killings, just imagine how you would feel yourself if someone killed your brother, sister, father, mother, daughter or son and so on in real life JUST for the sport of it and racking up kill counts.

Luckily this is a game, but again stay well away from even comparing it to real life and scenarios where you start to defend killing anyone that is not a real threat to you.

[joona.kujanen@suomi24.fi 62]

I'm still up for karma system where enough pvp kills earns you Justin Bieber's Best Hits soundtrack eternally playing in background. Shouts like "Whres the ACTION!!!???" reduces your karma by 2000. Each kill with sniper rifle accompanied with "PwNed U N00B!1!" shout would immediately earn you a next volume until either your brain or computer explodes.

There was a point when players didnt necessarely kill each other the second they saw each other. Then People happened, and 95 % of People are shitty.

My game has been constantly ruined by sniper campers (hell yeah, barricade markets and church and lay hours waiting for players) and hackers. Try to play the survival part there when all you hear is a frigging "zzzp" sound when bullet from AS50 approaches your head. I would think there are better games for your normal pvp shooting. This is not CoD with beans you know... "There are no end game content so we start to kill other players", wohoo. Why are you still here then?

Edited March 16, 2013 by Kuikka

[Roark92 90]

some kind of base building or fortifying and therefore factions (player made/operated) would mitigate it i think.

Theres no real political angle in dayz, no consequence. i think that is both an asset and a detriment to the game.

i feel as though pointlessly slaying a member of a local faction and incurring the wrath of said faction would be a deterrent to aimless killing.

with factions you could still have bands of merciless sociopaths, which is fine. but you could also give players a better way to DEAL with it, by banding together and opposing them.

No one likes politics, but it drives civility, even between warring states.

we have to cheat the system because as other people have said we all know that killing a player isnt KILLING a player. so we cant rely on morality and empathy like we do in RL.

That said i LIKE the pvp part of the game, even if i get massacred out of nowhere for reasons beyond my understanding. but still, there has to be more to it than that.

but i get that that is likely an unpopular design choice, and for some good reasons. I just would love to see things like area-specific resources that could be player (likely powerful factions) controlled and traded. think it would open up a whole bunch of possibilities socially.

[BearGravy 53]

I actually hate the servers that give you a loadout that spawn and have no pvp. It's like the loadout is bad enough, but without a main game element, now you are just teasing me.

[gizm0 96]

PVP is part of the game that is correct, however you seem to forget that if all we do is PVP than this just becomes a glorified deathmatch. I'm not saying players shouldn't kill each other but I do think players should try doing muggings and robberies first and foremost.

I will clarify my stance to be that I do not want Dayz to become some glorified deathmatch (which to an extent it was heading there last time I played).

Edited March 17, 2013 by Orthus

[BearGravy 53]

PVP is part of the game that is correct, however you seem to forget that if all we do is PVP than this just becomes a glorified deathmatch. I'm not saying players shouldn't kill each other but I do think players should try doing muggings and robberies first and foremost.

I will clarify my stance to be that I do not want Dayz to become some glorified deathmatch (which to an extent it was heading there last time I played).

If anything I agree, but without the "surrender" not being binded to a key automatically makes robberies risky and not really worth it. When SA comes out they should have it binded to something along with having one tip in the entire game which is: "Whenever someone has a gun pointed behind you and tells you to freeze, or surrender hit [key] to surrender, it works better than trying to shoot the guy."

[Shadow Man 142]

PVP is part of the game that is correct, however you seem to forget that if all we do is PVP than this just becomes a glorified deathmatch.

Couldn't be said any better than this really. DayZ mod has in fact become just this.

There is also a big difference between pvp and player killing. People dont simply hate pvp, cod has taught us that. Its the killing for no other reason but to get kills and/or troll/grief other players that really stopped DayZ from being great.

Going back to the OP, in a real life zombie apocalypse yes you would have people murdering others for survival, but its unlikely to resemble what happens in DayZ. In real life, people would be alot more useful alive as they would count for more firepower and could carry more supplies. Its also never a bad thing to have another pair of eyes around to keep a lookout.

With regards to whether or not in real life zombies are less dangerous than humans, it completely depends on how deadly the zombies are. If there were zombies in real life like the mod has then as long as you hav ammo you're probably ok. However when you do run out of ammo what happens? You run indefinitely until you lose them.

There are obvious problems when comparing a simulated game world to reality. Most notably the ability to respawn and run back to where you were, effectively granting you immortality with a slight penalty of a 10 or 20 min run. In real life you would never be so careless, running around town gunning down everyone you see.

Until they put more value into keeping your character alive into the game, not much will change. Hopefully the DayZ SA will provide some of this.

[SkrooLoose (DayZ) 143]

If anything I agree, but without the "surrender" not being binded to a key automatically makes robberies risky and not really worth it. When SA comes out they should have it binded to something along with having one tip in the entire game which is: "Whenever someone has a gun pointed behind you and tells you to freeze, or surrender hit [key] to surrender, it works better than trying to shoot the guy."

You're saying if there were a "surrender" key then it would / could help cut down on kos by making robberies easier?

... because there IS a surrender key. Just like there's also a "lower weapon" key. The problem is many are just too lazy to bother learning how to actually play the game.

[gamerman001 182]

In the event of a real zombie outbreak I think people would kill eachother. But not nearly as bad as how it is in Dayz. Anyone who thinks mankind would be THAT brutal in the event of our civilizations downfall has problems. Would YOU go around just shooting everyone you saw in the face? no you wouldnt.

I imagine people would actually kill eachother over REAL issues. Like starvation or thirst. Not just to kill someone.

[Qu1n 140]

The sims with guns?

So you can have babys and take a shit in dayz now?

Get a job in DayZ?

have a bubble bath in DayZ?

order pizza to your house in DayZ?

Buy a pool in DayZ?

Well, You do poop out empty cans... as Rocket would say.

[rn_max 202]

The worst thing about PvP whiners ... is that they provoke and feed PvP fanboys.

Both as bad as each other, just get on with the damned game already.