Do we deserve a devblog update this week?

[Bottlerocket 205]

It puts the lotion in the basket ... and then it gets a devblog again.

[gloopsgf 35]

OH BOY we really don't deserve information for the game that WE ARE PAYING FOR. This is just getting ridiculous. I can't comprehend how any of you think that information we get about the game we are paying for, is somehow a privilege. The gaming industry isn't some kind of thing that was designed solely to please people, it was designed to make money. In order to make money, you need to market your game. ie. giving out information through blogs and video's. Being an ass and not giving out information earns you nothing but debt as a dev.

I'm not saying we should be screaming "GIVE US INFO ROCKET, OR I WON'T BUY YOUR GAME", but we don't owe the devs anything but a bit of respect, and some patience. After all, we don't have an obligation to buy their game.

No, you don't deserve to play video games. The first game that was ever created was made to entertain people. Back around WWII, when the first console was ever created, we weren't all greedy, and we cared for one another.

We are all so greedy for money now, the game industry is transforming into something it shouldn't be, a money making operation.

Dean doesn't care if you are paying for the game. It is his game, and you should give him, and his staff some respect. In my opinion, he shouldnt even give people like you the opportunity to buy the game.

He Is not entitled, or obligated to give you any information on the game he is making, but he has taken the time to make the videos to allow people to have a "sneak peek" of the game.

[aussiestig 681]

No, you don't deserve to play video games. The first game that was ever created was made to entertain people. Back around WWII, when the first console was ever created, we weren't all greedy, and we cared for one another.

We are all so greedy for money now, the game industry is transforming into something it shouldn't be, a money making operation.

Dean doesn't care if you are paying for the game. It is his game, and you should give him, and his staff some respect. In my opinion, he shouldnt even give people like you the opportunity to buy the game.

He Is not entitled, or obligated to give you any information on the game he is making, but he has taken the time to make the videos to allow people to have a "sneak peek" of the game.

I'm not saying Dean is entitled. What are the chances that we didn't get a dev blog today because of the can incident? Are people actually suggesting that Dean is mad at us, so we don't get something as punishment? He probably didn't feel like it, or just felt there was nothing to show this week.

The point is. In todays world, not when video games were first made, video games are made to make money, all of them (aside from a few flash games), whether it be a lot, or enough to cover development costs. In order to get the money they wanted, they need to sell games to us. We don't owe anything to them to buy their game, it's their job to sell it to us.

I have ultimate respect for Dean, probably more than you ever will, after all, he created the mods, and the community as well, for the great military sim group I'm part of today. But this is not about Rocket, this is about people thinking that we're all entitled. I'm far from it.

In order to make a successful game, you need people to work together on both sides. You need to community to have patience and respect for the people making the game, but mostly, you need the people making the game to respect what the community has to say. Sure, he doesn't need to make us happy, he could just make a game that pleases himself, and he gets no sales. I'm for that if that's what he wants, if he wants to make a game that he wants me to buy, he needs to sell it to me.

Anyway, I never made these posts to say that I disrespect what rocket is doing, or whatever you think I'm saying. I'm saying that in a world where you want people to buy your game, you actually have to have them want to buy your game, not just leave them out in the open about everything, and forgetting about the community (I'm not talking about dayz here, I don't care that we got no dev blog today, I'm talking about gaming in general)

Edited March 2, 2013 by AussieStig

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

The cans were a hot topic. With all due respect to the moderators, they don't really have a hard job. It's easy to turn up to a forum, close a few threads, respond to a few reports/messages, and ban a few people. I've done it on more than one occasion. They don't really add anything to the communtiy,

Sorry champ, but going to have to call you out on that one.

I'm not sure where you've done it, but if it 'wasn't really a hard job' then I'm going to assume it wasn't a gaming community of any real size. Like yourself, I've moderated in the past (on the now-defunct Left4deadforums.com), and was on the moderating team for the infamous 'boycott' incident. It's not 'easy' at all, because you have to be able to justify every single action you take, often to a screaming, pissy little kid who hasn't got a freaking clue about what he's talking about but will still rant and rave about his 'right to free speech' - every day I was getting Steam messages from members wanting to know why I did/didn't ban someone, why I did/didn't close XYZ thread... the list goes on. If you really HAVE done 'proper' moderating, you'll also know that for every overt action the general public see, there's a whole lot more going on behind the scenes.

It's an utterly thankless task most of the time, but moderators do it because they love the community and realise that without someone to look after it, the community will end up tearing itself apart or being eaten by spambots and trolls.

I'm not going to comment on the cans themselves, as that's not my issue with your post, but the assertion that 'moderation is easy' is just... wrong. There's no other word for it.

[aussiestig 681]

Sorry champ, but going to have to call you out on that one.

I'm not sure where you've done it, but if it 'wasn't really a hard job' then I'm going to assume it wasn't a gaming community of any real size. Like yourself, I've moderated in the past (on the now-defunct Left4deadforums.com), and was on the moderating team for the infamous 'boycott' incident. It's not 'easy' at all, because you have to be able to justify every single action you take, often to a screaming, pissy little kid who hasn't got a freaking clue about what he's talking about but will still rant and rave about his 'right to free speech' - every day I was getting Steam messages from members wanting to know why I did/didn't ban someone, why I did/didn't close XYZ thread... the list goes on. If you really HAVE done 'proper' moderating, you'll also know that for every overt action the general public see, there's a whole lot more going on behind the scenes.

It's an utterly thankless task most of the time, but moderators do it because they love the community and realise that without someone to look after it, the community will end up tearing itself apart or being eaten by spambots and trolls.

I'm not going to comment on the cans themselves, as that's not my issue with your post, but the assertion that 'moderation is easy' is just... wrong. There's no other word for it.

As I said, I have respect for moderators, but I don't bow down to them for what they do. Every forum moderator here is going to be part of the dayz testing, something that is pretty cool in itself. Maybe not worth all the hours, but I've never received anything for my moderating. Sure, you have shitty days, but I've never even heard of a case like yours. Maybe it helps that my youtube, steam, and forum accounts are all different names.

I suppose the way you phase it, it's probably something they should deserve recognition for, simply for doing it. But I think there are still people out there that have done more for DayZ, and should come before them. Surely you can agree with that.

[Cinnabuns 45]

As much as I wanted to resist feeding the flame, I'm referring to http://dayzmod.com/f...s-can-incident/

"As much as I wanted to resist feeding the flame"

Har, yeah right. That's all you're doing and you are keenly aware of it. You poor attention starved soul.

It would be nice if this thread was locked but the mods are too nice. Hell, IMO most of the threads in the Announcement section should be locked after Rocket's post.

There's the info, read or view it. Why are reply's needed for Devblogs? Its a blog from the Devs.

Go start flame wars on Reddit or Twitter or some place else filled with attention starved people.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Cinnabuns

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

As I said, I have respect for moderators, but I don't bow down to them for what they do. Every forum moderator here is going to be part of the dayz testing, something that is pretty cool in itself. Maybe not worth all the hours, but I've never received anything for my moderating. Sure, you have shitty days, but I've never even heard of a case like yours. Maybe it helps that my youtube, steam, and forum accounts are all different names.

I suppose the way you phase it, it's probably something they should deserve recognition for, simply for doing it. But I think there are still people out there that have done more for DayZ, and should come before them. Surely you can agree with that.

I don't think anyone feels that the moderators should be worshipped and bowed down to - even the moderators themselves - there's nothing worse than having your ass kissed publicly.

I do admit, the Left4deadforums case was towards the extreme end of the scale, and part of it was my own fault for having my Steam profile publicly viewable, but I've had it before with other forums too, albeit to a lesser extent. The general rule of thumb is, the more popular a game is, the more idiots it attracts, and the harder the moderator's job is. I can't say I'm going to envy the mods once the SA hits. :P

With regards to others coming first, I hate to do it, as it will seem like I'm doing it to avoid having to concede that you may be right, which isn't my intention, but I have to plead a certain degree of ignorance there - I purposely try to keep my distance from the 'meta' of who does what and how much etc etc. However, I'm sure that as you say, there ARE others who have done just as much, if not more, and that I'm sure they'll be getting their own shout-outs in time too. (Hopefully to much less Q_Qing!)

Edited March 2, 2013 by Target Practice

[ImageCtrl 719]

Another can thread?

Asking at the same ... Do we deserve a devblog update this week? omg

[tsandrey 379]

Does anyone else feel like maybe this week we shouldn't get one?

The incident that occurred was obviously blown out of proportion, and even when Rocket told us to stop we kept on clubbing the baby seals.

I was looking forward to one today/tomorrow morning, but part of me feels like we aren't entitled to one this week. Let alone entitled to anything from the dev team ever.

Thoughts?

Entitled? Deserved? WTF are you talking about?

It's in Rocket's best interest to make weekly devblogs. If they keep delaying the release date, the hype will keep getting lower

[aussiestig 681]

Entitled? Deserved? WTF are you talking about?

It's in Rocket's best interest to make weekly devblogs. If they keep delaying the release date, the hype will keep getting lower

This guy knows what's up.

I'm pretty shitty with words, but anyone that argued with me about being entitled earlier, this is pretty much all I was try to get across.

[dallas 5195]

I understand that although money hasn't exchanged hands between Rocket and I, I've still invested my entire lab rat brain in DayZ and while every little tidbit of information means nothing in the larger scheme of things and by larger scheme of things, I mean the fact the the sun will die out in a million billion years and then DayZ wont matter at all, unless you need the perfect pitch blackness training tool and then suddenly you realize this is not about just a game, but in fact life and death.

I don't ask for much, I am after all within reason.

[Cinnabuns 45]

Us gamers, so entitled, huh.

Without gamers, the companies churning out games would have no one to buy their shit. Stop using the dirty word 'entitlement' within gaming.

I'd be completely surprised if Rocket's reasoning for not putting out a dev blog was because of this can ordeal, because it's extremely easy for everyone to say "well hold on, I don't have to buy your game, cya".

700 some odd posts so you write and read... lets just say "a lot" and also get involved frequently and apparently for the worse, yet....

Yeah, we know you read the post Rocket made about the fact that he is a team player and was trying to quash that entire can ordeal. We know you read that.

And yet all I get from your words is entitlement on your behalf and confusion which you are purveying through your posts; at least in this thread.

purvey [pəˈveɪ]

vb (tr)

1. to sell or provide (commodities, esp foodstuffs) on a large scale

2. to publish or make available (lies, scandal, etc.)

Do you honestly think the majority of people that played Dayz initially and/or still continue to, won't for any reason purchase the stand-alone when it is released? Every. One of them. will.

You know why? They pay for all the d-r-i-v-e-l that other game companies put out and pay much more. There is no other game that can compete with what Mr. Hall and Co. is offering and that's just the luck of his idea.

This is the FIRST game I've EVER followed/read/written on forums FOR and I have many PC games, I'm a PC gamer. I buy games and play them in my spare time. Sometimes I enjoy them, Sometimes I don't and they get shelved in the Library. Some times I avoid them because they're sequels of sequels of sequels and not good. Never have I read anything on a forum about a game that curtailed me from purchasing it or not.

Everyone that games wants a copy of "the game that changed it all". Thing is, we don't know which game that is going to be. Is it DayZ? Maybe? Maybe not? We all want to be part of history-in-the-making.

You know what? Who cares if DayZ isn't the one. It definitely has way more going for it than anything else on the table past or present (to me) and that's with Bioshock Infinite right around the corner (looks fun).

Everyone that games and takes their hobby even somewhat seriously will buy and play DayZ.

The notion that people are going to read something that will turn them off to playing such an epic game is hilarity if you ask me. You sample for yourself and form your own opinions. Who honestly cares about what anyone else has to say on anything? Including this reply.

You remember Pong? Oregon Trail? Cyberia? Bioforge? Ikari Warriors? Zelda? Metroid? Mech Warrior? System Shock? Thief? Pnembra? Look at what we've come from. Look to where we're going.

DayZ may not be graphically on top of its game however it only takes a second to recall games of yore and thinking back I personally was taken away with the story, the situation, and the tools with which I had to work with... I remember the graphics being... no I don't remember the graphics so much. They melt away when all the other elements are in place. I've loaded up some of my old games and sometimes you can't even tell what's happening really on the screen and I think to myself, "how was I so in to this?" and I continue playing and forget that I've asked myself anything at all.

The only thing that can break a game is the game itself, not how it looks, not what someone says about it on some forum. How does the game make you feel?

All I want to see is Dean's idea fully fleshed out and yes I want to be apart of it because in my opinion soley, it is gaming history and will be heralded as a mild stone in the industry. A lead for which all others in the genre should follow to be successful.

Who's not going to buy it? We'll miss them.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Cinnabuns

[aussiestig 681]

700 some odd posts so you write and read... lets just say "a lot" and also get involved frequently and apparently for the worse, yet....

Yeah, we know you read the post Rocket made about the fact that he is a team player and was trying to quash that entire can ordeal. We know you read that.

And yet all I get from your words is entitlement on your behalf and confusion which you are purveying through your posts; at least in this thread.

purvey [pəˈveɪ]

vb (tr)

1. to sell or provide (commodities, esp foodstuffs) on a large scale

2. to publish or make available (lies, scandal, etc.)

Do you honestly think the majority of people that played Dayz initially and/or still continue to, won't for any reason purchase the stand-alone when it is released? Every. One of them. will.

You know why? They pay for all the d-r-i-v-e-l that other game companies put out and pay much more. There is no other game that can compete with what Mr. Hall and Co. is offering and that's just the luck of his idea.

This is the FIRST game I've EVER followed/read/written on forums FOR and I have many PC games, I'm a PC gamer. I buy games and play them in my spare time. Sometimes I enjoy them, Sometimes I don't and they get shelved in the Library. Some times I avoid them because they're sequels of sequels of sequels and not good. Never have I read anything on a forum about a game that curtailed me from purchasing it or not.

Everyone that games wants a copy of "the game that changed it all". Thing is, we don't know which game that is going to be. Is it DayZ? Maybe? Maybe not? We all want to be part of history-in-the-making.

You know what? Who cares if DayZ isn't the one. It definitely has way more going for it than anything else on the table past or present (to me) and that's with Bioshock Infinite right around the corner (looks fun).

Everyone that games and takes their hobby even somewhat seriously will buy and play DayZ.

The notion that people are going to read something that will turn them off to playing such an epic game is hilarity if you ask me. You sample for yourself and form your own opinions. Who honestly cares about what anyone else has to say on anything? Including this reply.

You remember Pong? Oregon Trail? Cyberia? Bioforge? Ikari Warriors? Zelda? Metroid? Mech Warrior? System Shock? Thief? Pnembra? Look at what we've come from. Look to where we're going.

DayZ may not be graphically on top of its game however it only takes a second to recall games of yore and thinking back I personally was taken away with the story, the situation, and the tools with which I had to work with... I remember the graphics being... no I don't remember the graphics so much. They melt away when all the other elements are in place. I've loaded up some of my old games and sometimes you can't even tell what's happening really on the screen and I think to myself, "how was I so in to this?" and I continue playing and forget that I've asked myself anything at all.

The only thing that can break a game is the game itself, not how it looks, not what someone says about it on some forum. How does the game make you feel?

All I want to see is Dean's idea fully fleshed out and yes I want to be apart of it because in my opinion soley, it is gaming history and will be heralded as a mild stone in the industry. A lead for which all others in the genre should follow to be successful.

Who's not going to buy it? We'll miss them.

I'm not suggesting that everyone is going to ditch this game because of one small thing, and even if Rocket stopped doing dev blogs, I wouldn't care at all, because the game is still going to be good regardless of whether he tells me it's good or not.

My post has nothing to do with people boycotting DayZ, because Dean is a great dev, and has been doing a stellar job so far. But the word entitlement is just so god damn ridiculous within gaming, or any industry for that matter. 100% of the point I was trying to get across with my post is somewhat like this scenario. You walk into a shop, grab a Mars Bar from the shelf, you proceed to pay for it, but you suddenly realise it's not a mars bar at all, it's just shit wrapped in mars bar wrapping. You ask what the hell this is to the person at the counter, and she tells you to stop being so entitled. At this point, she still expects you to pay for it though, but you just place it back where you found it, and leave.

I'm not saying DayZ is the shit in mars bar wrapping, but I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous the claim is that there are people here that are entitled. We can simply get up and leave at any point in time if the product is crap, or we don't like what is happening, because we are paying money for the product. You make the point of that not happening very often, which for the most part, is true, but it does happen.

In a perfect world, people would just boycot game devs when they do stupid crap, but obviously people don't start boycotting until it gets extremely excessive, such as The Warz. They promised the mars bar, and they gave us the shit in the mars bar wrapping.

Again, my post doesn't relate to dayz, just the world entitlement within gaming.

Edited March 2, 2013 by AussieStig

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

To pigeonhole and generalize massively (always exceptions, yada yada), the older generation of gamers have been doing it for years, and for every Quake, for every DayZ, for every CounterStrike, we've seen a Duke Nukem Forever, a Daikatana, a Leisure Suit Larry in Box Office Bust. We've been there, done that and no doubt a few times got the 'special edition' T-shirt to prove it. We've seen enough flash-in-the-pan hype machines to be able to tell the difference between a game with substance and a game that's flying on a popular license and a pro-active PR department.

The 'new' generation haven't got that experience yet. They're not hardened and cynicised by buying crap that looks like it could be awesome but turns out to be a steaming pile of Romero - they've been raised in a generation where ever since they've been playing games, they've had budgets of millions of dollars, where multiplayer isn't a selling point, it's an expected feature. They've grown up expecting games to be so finely-tuned, so incredibly slick and polished that the rough edges are barely even visible any more, so when something comes along like DayZ that has an almost 'indie' production value/method but a 'mainstream' audience and following, it's a huge shock for them, because they've never experienced anything like it before - hell, they've never experienced a game where the developers are actually listening to the community and their wants, needs and expectations, and it's taking both sides some time to get used to that new experience.

If you know where to look, that sort of thing has happened before on a smaller scale, and it didn't end well. Terraria was a huge hit, far bigger than anyone ever expected, and attracted a large following. The main dev, whose name escapes me right now, announced that he was more or less finished with Terraria to work on a new game, and that a console port was on the way, and would have a few new features that would later be added to the PC version. The PC crowd predictably raged massively, and in the end I think he came out and said 'you know what, screw you guys, if you're going to be like that, I won't bother bringing the new features across to PC at all'.

Not suggesting for a second that this could/will happen with DayZ, I'm just using it as an example of when a game expands to reach an audience it never really expected to get, and how it can be difficult for both sides to deal with.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Target Practice

[arkaeldren 53]

Interesting read going on here, to bad its going to be wasted on 90% of this community. I have read some great opinions about the gaming industry from just a few people. I think a few of you are old enough to drink your self stupid, even have a few kids by now. This community should never be judged on should/shouldn't receive a damn thing, cause its a shit ass little community filled with some of the most mindless little fuckers I have had the pleasure of wasting my time reading. But if B.I. wants this game to succeed, then they should maintain a good business model and promote their product. As for this thread, the only thing it has done, is given me a decent read from a few mature perspectives. So thx for the interesting thoughts and opinions.... that is all, you may continue

btw: As for moderating, I would fail in one day, but to many mods end up thinking they are special, due to that false sense that what they are involved in is anything more than a small moment in time, that most will not remember next year. But I do respect someone that is willing to give their time for free, towards a cause they believe in and or enjoy.....so thx

Edited March 2, 2013 by Arkael Dren

[gesundheitk 420]

What people are posting is kind of ridiculous. what some people are posting is kind of ridiculous.

While I wasn't one complaining about the cans, people saying we do not deserve a devblog, or are entitled to anything are blowing this thing out of the water. It's called criticism, and while in this case the criticism was a pretty bad reason, they are going to take some once in a while; even if it means that people are irritated over little things. Here's the thing, though:

Some people in the community are irritated because they are being told they have full control/full voice in development. That's never going to end well when you have two groups of people who will never agree on anything (coughUSApoliticalpartiescough).

In the end, I don't think that some people should be deprived of a devblog this week because of a bit of commotion within the community. You are going to have to stand for it when saying that everyone's voice will be heard. For all we know, though, that may not be the reason for the delay. The reason could be because they're working on a skeleton, or working on more animations.

tl;dr why is this topic even here?

edit: read the first page, was baffled af, read the second, saw some people posting similar things to what I've posted. nevermind about the first sentence on this post.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Gesundheit

[liquidmind 320]

The cans were a hot topic. With all due respect to the moderators, they don't really have a hard job. It's easy to turn up to a forum, close a few threads, respond to a few reports/messages, and ban a few people. I've done it on more than one occasion. They don't really add anything to the communtiy, so I don't see why they should have their names plastered where others that have done a whole shitload more than them, don't get to have their names.

I thank the mods for keep the forum clean and tidy, but any more than that would be disrespectful to people who've put large amounts of time and effort into dayz, such as porting maps, creating huge communities, and making software to make the game much easier to use (playwithsix/dayzcommander).

I said a few days ago that it didn't really bother me, and I stand by that statement. If they kept them in, I wouldn't care, but if I had no choice but to pick a side, it'd be taking them back out again.

Anyway, back on topic.

Well, it depends on how devoted a mod is. 4-6 hours a day was a usual thing for my mods :-)

but other than that I agree with you in a way. I just don't think that my personal opinion in the matter wheter the cans should be in or not is important. I think the community as a whole could have decided that. In a way like it is done now, by people spreading alpha-maps for cans around, so people can submit their own designs.

Most will be horrible probably. But some might give ideas or inspire for better versions. In the end, we will have the best result, as the whole community worked togehter.

My main issue with the cans wasn't the names or how they looked, but that they fellt pressed into the release. I felt that they should have been given more time. Considering how major the other issues in the patch were, I didn't understand why anyone would press those into it. There was enough to show for in this patch anyways.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

...

Some people in the community are irritated because they are being told they have full control/full voice in the development of the standalone. That's never going to end well when you have two groups of people who will never agree on anything (coughUSApoliticalpartiescough).

...

And if there are two groups with widely different opinions, the SA will be tuned to target the larger one to maximize ROI. SA is payware, dayz is a freeware mod.

_Anubis_

[victusmortuus 1074]

I do. I'm not sure about you lot.

[aussiestig 681]

Well, it depends on how devoted a mod is. 4-6 hours a day was a usual thing for my mods :-)

but other than that I agree with you in a way. I just don't think that my personal opinion in the matter wheter the cans should be in or not is important. I think the community as a whole could have decided that. In a way like it is done now, by people spreading alpha-maps for cans around, so people can submit their own designs.

Most will be horrible probably. But some might give ideas or inspire for better versions. In the end, we will have the best result, as the whole community worked togehter.

My main issue with the cans wasn't the names or how they looked, but that they fellt pressed into the release. I felt that they should have been given more time. Considering how major the other issues in the patch were, I didn't understand why anyone would press those into it. There was enough to show for in this patch anyways.

I agree. While we may have made some peoples week really shitty, something good has come of this. We've managed to open up it up for the community to decide now, and make them now.

As someone else a few posts ago said, it was really rushed. I don't think razor could have expected such a huge backlash from it, but as far as I know, the person who made the cans originally was just making a suggestion for the SA, and he had his cans instantly pushed into the mod, almost as though there wasn't any time to think about it.

[Never 237]

All drama over nothing.

Rocket didn't even need to address it.

[Mitunzz 90]

At the end of the day, it's a game... and hey, mistakes will be made, but we need to move on. Dwelling on discussion about it isn't the way to go.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Honestly, the biggest issue I had was that they pulled the cans more or less instantly with the hotfix. Now, whether that came from above or not is not something we'll likely be privy to, but to me it seemed too hasty - anyone who has ever followed any kind of game in alpha/beta that introduces new features will know that the first few days after a patch are marked with the forums being utterly besieged with idiots complaining that whatever it is has ruined the game FOREVER and how they're definitely not buying the game. Six months later, when another patch removes said feature, the community is besieged again with people complaining that said feature should never have been removed.

Most people distrust 'new' things, and when you combine that with the types of folks that will register on a community forum JUST to complain about the features they don't like, you're going to have a recipe for disaster. Although it's taking a while, within a week, things are already calming down, as the reactionary types have gone off to complain about something else, and now we can actually have some kind of sensible discussion on the topic without Little Johnny Scrotebag coming in and telling us how he's been playing DayZ since day 1 and this is by far the worst thing ever to happen to it.

(Also, because this is the internet, and context isn't always crystal clear, I'm not tarring all those that didn't like the cans as reactionary idiots who cry RUINED FOREVER at every single change. I'm simply saying that there was a not insignificant percentage of those folks involved in can-gate that perhaps made things look worse than they actually were)

Edited March 2, 2013 by Target Practice

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

This kind of thing happens every update, it's just this time people seemed to take it a little too far.

I don't understand this post, it's making out as if Rocket was deeply upset by the whole thing, which he wasn't.

[Katana67 2907]

Communities aren't petulant children, even when they -act- like them.

And this seems to only further perpetuate the "can" argument. Can't both sides quit "WHINING!?!? LOLOLOLOL" and enjoy the mod?