DayZ Mod 1.7.6 Update

[valdark 142]

If you look how the zed is turning as your walking around. The zeds line of sight is very low its the direction the zed is always facing with an angle of sight of 30 degrees looking at the video your well out of that.

So draw a line from the direction the zed is facing then add a cone of 30 degrees out to a max of 80 meters this is the zeds sight. Due to this cone effect the closer the zed is the worse the sight is this is where hearing should start being picked up more and i think you noticed that as you are walking :-)

There is no chance based system so some zeds will seem stupid as hell but others will catch you. The issue is when they attack they shout out to all zeds within the range of that shout. This shout is a 360 degree radius around the zed. this is where the lack of sight but increased hearing starts to work best. Its a work in progress system we need a clean start and clean feedback on this.

The zed callouts don't seem to be working very well. Agroing a single zed doesn't seem to cause the full 80m agro. I don't know if this is because they deagro immediately if you aren't in LOS or if there are other factors.

I will try and capture some video to show what I mean.

[entspeak 374]

If you look how the zed is turning as your walking around. The zeds line of sight is very low its the direction the zed is always facing with an angle of sight of 30 degrees looking at the video your well out of that.

So draw a line from the direction the zed is facing then add a cone of 30 degrees out to a max of 80 meters this is the zeds sight. Due to this cone effect the closer the zed is the worse the sight is this is where hearing should start being picked up more and i think you noticed that as you are walking :-)

There is no chance based system so some zeds will seem stupid as hell but others will catch you. The issue is when they attack they shout out to all zeds within the range of that shout. This shout is a 360 degree radius around the zed. this is where the lack of sight but increased hearing starts to work best. Its a work in progress system we need a clean start and clean feedback on this.

Ah, I see, so they have an FOV of 30 degrees in the direction the zombie is facing (regardless of it's head position?) and a visible range of 80m arcing within that FOV, is that what you mean by cone? So, if you're 80m out coming in at a 30 degree angle to the front of the zed, you'll be seen, but if even if you're 10m away, but coming in at a 35 degree angle, you won't be seen.

But, I did walk completely in front of it at a range closer than 80m - I walked passed the front of the zombie in the yellow shirt from left to right, so I crossed that cone within that 80m range. In fact in the video, I pretty much circle the zombie... twice... once walking, once running. It wasn't until I passed it a third time (almost running into it) that it aggro'd. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the cone... is it angled downward or something?

I understand the work in progress nature of this and really appreciate the work you guys are doing. What would be considered "clean" feedback?

Edited February 27, 2013 by entspeak

[entspeak 374]

The zed callouts don't seem to be working very well. Agroing a single zed doesn't seem to cause the full 80m agro. I don't know if this is because they deagro immediately if you aren't in LOS or if there are other factors.

I will try and capture some video to show what I mean.

Yeah, I've experienced the same... and the video I posted shows that as well. The zombie I'm circling doesn't respond to the other zombies that eventually aggro on me. And in other instances, I've had a single zombie aggro and the others do nothing. It seems to be hit or miss, I think. I don't know if there's some other factor that comes up in these instances that is causing it not to work at that moment.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

More feedback about 1.7.6:

1. Loot Spawn Tables are ... different. I suddenly find a lot of backpacks (even Alice ones) in supermarkets. However, maps and hunting knives seem disappeared. No way to find either of those (matches so-and-so, watch plenty, compass rare). Churches offer less Ioot in term of quantity, even if I found a Ghillie suit in the church of Pustoshka.(weren't those items crash-site only?)

2. Deer Stands have not anymore military zombies around. A pity, those guys were a reliable source of ammo

3. Zombies follow better in buildings, worse outside unless close enough (<20-30 meters), loose LOS --> the zombie stop almost immediately and can't re-track by ear. In a town, do a combat roll over a fence and you are done

4. Found so far a single Zombie dead nearby a Deer Stand. I believe this is not due to the 1.7.5.1 AI (Zombies jumping like kamikaze from Deer Stand) but maybe slightly offset spawn point in the deer stand (there is Deer Stand West of Green Mountain where the zombies spawning inside have to way to go down. They are stuck there no matter what you do. I usually kill them with the hatchet from below).

5. Lost my primary weapon + related ammo upon restart (an AK-74 Kobra). It was gone. But it may be a server-side issue, I vaguely remember the same happening a lot of time ago with 1.7.5.1

6. The multiple aggro (aggro one Zombie, he calls the other) does not seem to work or work less compared to 1.7.5.1, maybe I was too accustomed to have an horde tracking me

_Anubis_

[murat.nizam@btinternet.com 0]

Hmm I tried everything and can't seem to rollback to 1.7.6 to play on certain servers

[entspeak 374]

More feedback about 1.7.6:

1. Loot Spawn Tables are ... different. I suddenly find a lot of backpacks (even Alice ones) in supermarkets. However, maps and hunting knives seem disappeared. No way to find either of those (matches so-and-so, watch plenty, compass rare). Churches offer less Ioot in term of quantity, even if I found a Ghillie suit in the church of Pustoshka.(weren't those items crash-site only?)

I've found maps and hunting knives pretty readily, so this just might be a luck thing. I've had days where I couldn't find a map at all, days where I couldn't find a camping tent and then there are days where that's all I see.

I think there's always been a small chance of finding Ghillie's in residential loot spawns. I would find them on castle tower tops occasionally in earlier versions.

Yeah, something's not quite right with the zombies alert system. It seems almost random. One zombie will aggro on me and the others just won't care. I've had zombies aggro outside after hitting a zombie with a hatchet while I was in a tent. I changed a tire with a zombie walking about 3m away from the vehicle and he didn't bat an eyelid. And losing them is easier than ever... they do seem to just give up really quickly.

I wonder if the FOV is too small. Having the 80m viewing range may be fine if they have a wider FOV.

I understand people wanting freedom to move, but it should require some tactics and timing. Players should have to make a choice... wait for a zombie to turn or pass, find a path around it, or deal with it. I've always had fun keeping an eye on where zeds were facing, how far away they were... I could guage which was going to see me first and I'd deal with it before it was a problem - it was particularly fun when it got more difficult in 1.7.5.1. Now, I have no clue... I know it's not, but it just seems random. I'll go toward a zombie I think is going to see me in a moment and some zombie I don't see will aggro because of noise, but the one in front of me hasn't. So, now I'm just running past them, getting the aggro, losing it and going about my day - the zeds mean little again.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[hoik 415]

losing them is easier than ever... they do seem to just give up really quickly.

I understand people wanting freedom to move, but it should require some tactics and timing. Players should have to make a choice... wait for a zombie to turn or pass, find a path around it, or deal with it. I've always had fun keeping an eye on where zeds were facing, how far away they were... I could guage which was going to see me first and I'd deal with it before it was a problem - it was particularly fun when it got more difficult in 1.7.5.1.

I agree, loosing zombies has become very easy - I got aggroed and lost 4-5 zeds runing across a open field :(. I know its a work in progress, and (fingers crossed) eventually there will be some scary and playable zeds (not saying that 1.7.5.1 zeds weren't playable, I quite liked them). They need to be more persistant .

Also, anyone having trouble recovering bolts/arrows? I fired 5 and was unable to retrieve any of them - they were all visible but I couldn't get the "retrieve" option to show, even the one that was stuck in a wall. It was on a private hive so I don't know if that is a issue.

[entspeak 374]

I've only tried the crossbow a couple of times since the update. I was able to get the couple I fired back. Sometimes, you have to go into 1st person, zoom in and move the mouse around a bit - it seems that a section of the arrow has to be in the crosshairs or center screen in order to get the option to show (that's been my experience of it). Sometimes, it's hard because the zombie doesn't have that requirement to access it's body and this seems to override the arrow retrieval option.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[Scott Pilgrim 65]

I agree, loosing zombies has become very easy - I got aggroed and lost 4-5 zeds runing across a open field :(. I know its a work in progress, and (fingers crossed) eventually there will be some scary and playable zeds (not saying that 1.7.5.1 zeds weren't playable, I quite liked them). They need to be more persistant .

Also, anyone having trouble recovering bolts/arrows? I fired 5 and was unable to retrieve any of them - they were all visible but I couldn't get the "retrieve" option to show, even the one that was stuck in a wall. It was on a private hive so I don't know if that is a issue.

Yeah, sometimes it's not easy to retrieve them if you get a body shot on them which is why I try to shoot 'em in the head. Much easier to retrieve from their heads.

[entspeak 374]

Actually, I just realized I'm wrong. If you're 10m away from a zed and come in at a 16 degree angle off straight on, it can't see you. I think that's way too narrow a FOV - that's extreme tunnel vision. Still doesn't explain how I walked circles around it and why it didn't aggro when the others did, but... still. I think a 60 degree FOV might work better... 30 degrees either side. That way, you can come at it from the side, but not from directly in front of it.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[r4z0r49 4761]

Ah, I see, so they have an FOV of 30 degrees in the direction the zombie is facing (regardless of it's head position?) and a visible range of 80m arcing within that FOV, is that what you mean by cone? So, if you're 80m out coming in at a 30 degree angle to the front of the zed, you'll be seen, but if even if you're 10m away, but coming in at a 35 degree angle, you won't be seen.

But, I did walk completely in front of it at a range closer than 80m - I walked passed the front of the zombie in the yellow shirt from left to right, so I crossed that cone within that 80m range. In fact in the video, I pretty much circle the zombie... twice... once walking, once running. It wasn't until I passed it a third time (almost running into it) that it aggro'd. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the cone... is it angled downward or something?

I understand the work in progress nature of this and really appreciate the work you guys are doing. What would be considered "clean" feedback?

Yea its not a always active system its a pulse that happens per zed every so many seconds.

[r4z0r49 4761]

Actually, I just realized I'm wrong. If you're 10m away from a zed and come in at a 16 degree angle off straight on, it can't see you. I think that's way too narrow a FOV - that's extreme tunnel vision. Still doesn't explain how I walked circles around it and why it didn't aggro when the others did, but... still. I think a 60 degree FOV might work better... 30 degrees either side. That way, you can come at it from the side, but not from directly in front of it.

It could work better to increase the angle but then you also increase the cpu used per zed.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

It could work better to increase the angle but then you also increase the cpu used per zed.

what? has it really that impact?!

[r4z0r49 4761]

what? has it really that impact?!

We would have to monitor and check to see what it does use but yes small changes like this could have a big impact for the players at the bottom of the recommended specs

[entspeak 374]

Oh. So, the 30 degree FOV is not a new thing? I thought it was reduced for this update. Well, being on the lower end of the spectrum, myself (Dell 14r - i3) I wouldn't want to face more cpu load. Hmm... It never seemed like an issue before. It's hard to imagine that removing the chance based system has had so drastic an effect. And it sounds like, in terms of being near zombies, that's the only thing that changed. I literally knelt a few meters away from a zombie in the first industrial area past the fire station at the NWAF, it was walking toward me, it turned started to turn, it's front crossing my plane and kept on turning. It wasn't until I walked up to it from the side and it heard me that it spun back to attack, but at that point, I was swinging the hatchet.

And in Solni, today, a zombie aggro'd on hearing me, came around the corner and started hopping slowly again. I started to run, which aggro'd it again. I ducked into a shed a few meters away and waited for it to come. When it didn't, I peeked around the corner and it was hopping slowly toward me... I had to walk up to it and kill it.

I have to say, the new aggro pathing is awesome, though. :) I'm beginning to be able to gauge where they will come by me... and can get them to run into my swinging hatchet. It's makes for some very cool Hollywood style slayings when there are multiple zombies coming at me.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[vibe 26]

Zeds still zigzag which is my #1 problem with the mod. I appreciate the effort for trying though and the patch has many great changes!

[entspeak 374]

Yeah, but it's not nearly as frenetic and spastic as it was. It's a huge improvement, in my opinion.

[oldfossil 59]

Awesome changes for this new update, but I'm disappointed about the Z's behaviour (the new attack radius is fine), now they are too easy to defeat, don't pack against shooting players or are not so attracted by noisy players for example, they are a at least more annoying than bees.

In my opinion with weak Z's the gameplay is going to shift strongly in a PvP direction.

Anyway thanks a lot for the great dev. team effort!

Edited February 28, 2013 by OldFossil

[Sutinen 635]

So, Razor, you're telling me the crossbow will be "op" if you can't get your bolts back without breaking them? When did we start giving a fuck about weapons being "op"? AS50 is something op for you. Goddamnit, the community devs are making this mod worse.

[hoschelhoff 15]

So, Razor, you're telling me the crossbow will be "op" if you can't get your bolts back without breaking them? When did we start giving a fuck about weapons being "op"? AS50 is something op for you. Goddamnit, the community devs are making this mod worse.

QFT

Using arrows with crossbow makes little sense.. you need BOLTS!

[Kra 151]

QFT

Using arrows with crossbow makes little sense.. you need BOLTS!

Thats why they break so often. B)

[entspeak 374]

I'm also someone who thinks that crossbows fire bolts and bows fire arrows. They're usually shorter and heavier than arrows used with a bow and sometimes have no fletching. In my opinion, the interchangeability of the terms came about because of the argument that firing a crossbow wasn't archery because it fired bolts. But, I don't care what they call them so long as they don't have a 1 in 5 chance of breaking with the way things work currently... it nerfs an already difficult weapon to use (primarily because it can take so long to get a bolt back if you get it back at all.) R4Z0R49's comment is the first I heard of the there being a concern by anyone that the crossbow might be OP.

It's true that the surest way to get your arrow back would be a headshot - unless the zed falls into a wall or market shelf unit or something. It won't absorb it if you get a headshot, but doing that without crosshairs is not an easy thing to do at all. And, if you hunt with it, pretty much, say goodbye to the arrow.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[psstloaf 17]

will players be checking there logout timer to check if there around other players?

[entspeak 374]

Yea its not a always active system its a pulse that happens per zed every so many seconds.

Sorry, I missed this post. Ah, I thought it was constant and, of course, a pulse makes total sense in terms of minimizing the hit to a player's CPU. That would explain a lot. With such a narrow FOV, if it's turning, it could easily cover that area at close range in between pulses. And, it explains the delay in aggro that occurs. Is it the same for hearing? If so, that would explain why some zeds don't respond to other zombie calls. I'm sure server lag might also impact this. I wonder if the chance based stuff compensated for this.

I don't think it makes sense of how quickly they lose interest now, though.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[PongoZ 127]

I assumed all the nonsense cans were to do with not having copyrighted names in the release product.