Progression System in DayZ Standalone

[joe_mcentire 2073]

well as i said: mini-games per se are not a no-go for me... My argument was just that you can not equally replace a skill-system with mini-games. That is e.g. the reason why in TES there are very few limited mini-games as lockpicking. The rest is not doable / does make sense as a mini-game.

So maybe one proper solution would be (very few, but consistent and diversified) mini-games mixed with subtle microskills. Just for that fact: IRL you could do everything the right way always and anytime, but sometimes things will fuck up eventually. Micro-skills could always bind chances to certain tasks, or offer new possibilites, things that would be very very tough to implement into a such a mini-game.

But as said before there are whole games dedicated to JUST SIMULATE ONE certain task and fail grandiosly! This is maybe all i have to criticize, but some of you still just neglect that argument all the time.

A (partly) text-based approach could be an answer to that but i'm certain there would be then others which would criticize just that...

[Private Evans 1303]

We are hopefully not talking about getting faster, stronger sneakier, or doing more damage blablabla. We are talking about things like being a medic or reparing and flying a helicopter, maybe bringing a generator back to life and restore electrical power or building an underground base...things that need a lot of special knowledge, training and also teamwork.

In this case I fully agree with our sparkling wine loving friend, RL knowledge mixed with ingame experience (subtle microskills) and somekind of hardcore simulators ( including minigames) could be a solution....using simple minigames only or implementing a skill/perk system sucks...

Edited February 24, 2013 by Private Evans

[Uuni 74]

Coordination and fitness related skills could in my opinion be simulated fairly accurately through the use of a system like the one in The Elder Scrolls games, since these are things you get better at the more you use them in real life. Having this type of system does encourage grinding (or training), but should that not be allowed. If someone wants to try and find a safe place to practice knife/hatchet/rifle /rock throwing for hours to gain one 'level' so they can throw things further and more accurately, or jog everywhere to make themselves more fit to enable them to to sprint longer in a fighting situation, be my quest.

Just keep all the numbers hidden, and demonstrate through the capabilities of the player character. that they have improved in something. For in stance the only way to tell whether you've become more fit is to try and see if you can run/jog for longer periods of time than previously. Ideally we should have no menus in game other than the player inventory.

Thoughts?

It would still encourage people to grind as there will always be players trying to optimize stuff like this. This could possibly lead even to things like botting where people run circles or throw rocks via bot just to get better at it when they want to play themselves. I do kinda see the appeal of getting better at jogging via jogging but IMO the downsides far outweigh the benefits. It's exactly the kinda gameplay that would ruin part of the 'everyone starts at the same line' -stuff. For minigames I feel like that we should get the visual representation of the sympthom, a brief description what is going on and we should be able to choose which treatment to apply. IE. "player x is feeling light headed" and you can see that he's bleeding quite badly from his hand. You would need to bandage the wound and then apply a bloodbag to fix him up

Even though lipemr keeps claming that dayZ is an RPG, I have to disagree. We are playing as survivors, no more, no less. It's kinda like saying pong is an RPG where you play as the paddle and try to get the full experience what being a paddle in 2d space is like

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[CreepySalad 108]

well as i said: mini-games per se are not a no-go for me... My argument was just that you can not equally replace a skill-system with mini-games. That is e.g. the reason why in TES there are very few limited mini-games as lockpicking. The rest is not doable / does make sense as a mini-game.

So maybe one proper solution would be (very few, but consistent and diversified) mini-games mixed with subtle microskills. Just for that fact: IRL you could do everything the right way always and anytime, but sometimes things will fuck up eventually. Micro-skills could always bind chances to certain tasks, or offer new possibilites, things that would be very very tough to implement into a such a mini-game.

But as said before there are whole games dedicated to JUST SIMULATE ONE certain task and fail grandiosly! This is maybe all i have to criticize, but some of you still just neglect that argument all the time.

A (partly) text-based approach could be an answer to that but i'm certain there would be then others which would criticize just that...

The TES series isn't trying to be a realism-esque game.

[lipemr 160]

>"An experience point (often abbreviated to Exp or XP) is a unit of measurement used in many role-playing games (RPGs) and role-playing video games to quantify a player character's progression through the game. Experience points are generally awarded for the completion of quests, overcoming obstacles and opponents, and for successful role-playing.

In many RPGs, characters start as fairly weak and untrained. When a sufficient amount of experience is obtained, the character "levels up", achieving the next stage of character development. Such an event usually increases the character's statistics, such as health points and strength, and may permit the character to acquire new abilities or improve existing ones.

In some role-playing games, particularly those derived from Dungeons & Dragons, experience points are used to improve characters in discrete experience levels; in other games, such as GURPS and the World of Darkness games, experience points are spent on specific abilities or attributes chosen by the player."

Also, I've made plenty of friends on Day Z. Help new people, and stop KOSing yourself, and you'd get some nice experiences out of the many different people in the server.

RPGs are now regularly known as, (and described as) games like Persona and therefore, will be described as such by me, and anyone else who's played a video game.

EXP is just a false form of progression, at least it would be in this game.

I hated FC3 for this reason as well. The previous games did an excellent job in making you feel like you were against the odds, which was completely ruined in FC3, due to one of the reasons being perks and EXP.

If you want to play a RPG, you should go play one.

No need to be a dick-wrinkle as well. Calm down.

duude, for freaking sake, where i even mentioned experience in my previous posts?

>"An experience point (often abbreviated to Exp or XP) is a unit of measurement used in many role-playing games (RPGs) and role-playing video games to quantify a player character's progression through the game. Experience points are generally awarded for the completion of quests, overcoming obstacles and opponents, and for successful role-playing.

In many RPGs, characters start as fairly weak and untrained. When a sufficient amount of experience is obtained, the character "levels up", achieving the next stage of character development. Such an event usually increases the character's statistics, such as health points and strength, and may permit the character to acquire new abilities or improve existing ones.

In some role-playing games, particularly those derived from Dungeons & Dragons, experience points are used to improve characters in discrete experience levels; in other games, such as GURPS and the World of Darkness games, experience points are spent on specific abilities or attributes chosen by the player."

Also, I've made plenty of friends on Day Z. Help new people, and stop KOSing yourself, and you'd get some nice experiences out of the many different people in the server.

RPGs are now regularly known as, (and described as) games like Persona and therefore, will be described as such by me, and anyone else who's played a video game.

EXP is just a false form of progression, at least it would be in this game.

I hated FC3 for this reason as well. The previous games did an excellent job in making you feel like you were against the odds, which was completely ruined in FC3, due to one of the reasons being perks and EXP.

If you want to play a RPG, you should go play one.

No need to be a dick-wrinkle as well. Calm down.

RPG is simply a game where you play in the role of your 'avatar', in dayZ, you play as the survivor, a dude washed up in the shore that have to survive using any necessary means.

If that isnt a survival RPG, i dont really know what it is.

You mean role playing game? It doesn't seem to me that DayZ is role-playing, seeing how your avatar is a nameless fellow in a vest that looks like every other nameless fellow with a vest in the game.

the character is nameless so you put the name you want on it, and he looks like everyone else cause the game that the mod used didnt support any customization.

DayZ IS a RPG. A really uncommon type of RPG nowadays, but still a RPG.

It would still encourage people to grind as there will always be players trying to optimize stuff like this. This could possibly lead even to things like botting where people run circles or throw rocks via bot just to get better at it when they want to play themselves. I do kinda see the appeal of getting better at jogging via jogging but IMO the downsides far outweigh the benefits. It's exactly the kinda gameplay that would ruin part of the 'everyone starts at the same line' -stuff. For minigames I feel like that we should get the visual representation of the sympthom, a brief description what is going on and we should be able to choose which treatment to apply. IE. "player x is feeling light headed" and you can see that he's bleeding quite badly from his hand. You would need to bandage the wound and then apply a bloodbag to fix him up

Even though lipemr keeps claming that dayZ is an RPG, I have to disagree. We are playing as survivors, no more, no less. It's kinda like saying pong is an RPG where you play as the paddle and try to get the full experience what being a paddle in 2d space is like

What the fuck? if playing as a survival in a zombie apocalipse isnt playing a role in a fiction world, then what is it?

For the grinding thing, make medical supplies much more rare, make ammunition rare, limit the learning in things like running, cutting wood, anything. done. No more botting nor grinding will be possible.

I'm suggesting it not because i'm an standart-RPG fan, i'm suggesting it cause it's the way we could simulate the practice you get on real life by doing this.

Coming with this story that "the players behind the computer that should get better on the game" is a pure falacy, if it's going to be realistic, you need to be able to get better on what you do, as much as any person in real life can.

The TES series isn't trying to be a realism-esque game.

And dayZ is? seriously?

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[Uuni 74]

Coming with this story that "the players behind the computer that should get better on the game" is a pure falacy, if it's going to be realistic, you need to be able to get better on what you do, as much as any person in real life can.

With the 'choose the right procedure' minigame example I gave earlier players would actually get better at giving first-aid. Without any sort of artificial xp or trait system

[lipemr 160]

With the 'choose the right procedure' minigame example I gave earlier players would actually get better at giving first-aid. Without any sort of artificial xp or trait system

nope, you would just memorize what to do when the certain words appear on your screen, even a chimpanzee would do that.

[Uuni 74]

nope, you would just memorize what to do when the certain words appear on your screen, even a chimpanzee would do that.

I'm fairly sure the chimpanzee would prefer the xp treadmill where he gets a cookie when he hits a button for a hundred times over a system that takes planning and reading. Heck, even rats can be taught to do repetitive tasks for rewards but they can't be taught to read

[CreepySalad 108]

nope, you would just memorize what to do when the certain words appear on your screen, even a chimpanzee would do that.

Not if you don't make it shitty.

It's not going to say "BANDAGE FIRST"

You'll be thrown into a situation where you don't know the solution to unless you know about medical stuff.

Also, yes, Day Z is trying to be a realistic type game. Why else would you use a MILITARY SIMULATOR of all things if you weren't trying to be SOMEWHAT realistic.

I don't know if your trying to be a dick, but you should stop.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

o c'mon everyone has a point (oversimplified and exaggerated) with their chimp and their rat argument ;). why is someone a dick just because you cannot convince him/her to think the way you do or you want him/her to?

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

What are you even talking about?

That's actually quite valid point. I already started over new character couple times because I basically finished the game. (gear and vehicles..all that crap) My problem though was that I wasn't the first in all the last stand PvP and I've tried to avoid any / most firefights.

I have nothing against the PvP thingy in the mod, I even welcome it but I feel there needs to be more to do, more to explore and try than gear up and be pretty much done for.

[Prophet 6]

A progression system in any game kills the fun stone dead.

If it had one I wouldn't buy it.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

A progression system in any game kills the fun stone dead.

which one do you think of and why?

[Uuni 74]

which one do you think of and why?

I think he means the kind of games that have articially tacked on leveling and progression just to keep you playing, kinda like the prestiege system in CoD

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[CreepySalad 108]

o c'mon everyone has a point (oversimplified and exaggerated) with their chimp and their rat argument ;). why is someone a dick just because you cannot convince him/her to think the way you do or you want him/her to?

So I guess he just has a whiny personality.

"Yeah the "player interactions" where everyone shoots on sight seems AMAZING, i think you dont play dayZ f or the last 6 months.

If a progression system is "omfg bad, no rpg, dayZ is n o rpg, hurr hurr", then what do you suggest to reduce t he shoot on sight and to make players value more thei r lives?

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont e ven know the freaking meaning of the term."

Considering this comment, his comment about apes being able to preform tasks seemed as though everyone who thought it was a good idea had the intelligence of apes.

If it didn't, that's what it came across as.

Also, how does leveling prevent KoS?

If I leveled up for killing people, wouldn't I do it more?

It doesn't really give more to do, as all you have to do is RUN around and shoot people. Bam! You leveled up two things. It's not going to change someone's play style.

If you're a sniper bandit in the trees, you don't need to level up running. Why would you?

Same with bandits period. If you're not going to heal people anyway, why would you now? To level on an invisible system?

Your logic is flawed. If anything, it'd promote KoS. The little minigame system would require someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEIR DOING to fix a car or a wound.

The XP system allows any old dude to do whatever. You can still fix a car at Car Fixing level 1, but just not as fast. So it doesn't matter.

Edited February 24, 2013 by CreepySalad

[joe_mcentire 2073]

If I leveled up for killing people, wouldn't I do it more?

It doesn't really give more to do, as all you have to do is RUN around and shoot people. Bam! You leveled up two things. It's not going to change someone's play style.

If you're a sniper bandit in the trees, you don't need to level up running. Why would you?

Same with bandits period. If you're not going to heal people anyway, why would you now? To level on an invisible system?

1. The first line, this is the supreme example of a stereotypical idea of a skill-system (you should do politics ;))

2. So you say it doesn't change someone's play style and you don't need to level up, so you'll be completely unaffected by it. Reason enough to oppose it no matter what?! So there are, obviously, enough ppl that would like to see something like this in the game, but you don't want it because...well because it does not affect you?!

Why will it promote KOS?! just why?! This is again this stereotypical idea of skills as feared by Dean once. ("the one with less skills can't stand a chance against the one with more skills") This is just what we discussed at large in the mentioned threads. And i know that you took part in that threads as well and therefor you know, if you just partially read those, that we always declined the idea of "directly combat affecting" skills (no one hit killers, no undying heros). It shouldn't affect the ones that are not interested but it could give so much to them who are..

and it seems as dean also thought about that in such a similar way:

Also an extended interview with Rocket talking about the server architecture, inventory system, skill trees, zombies, additional maps/modding and more...

http://www.pcpowerpl...nded-interview/

Edited February 24, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

So i cant contribute to the game with my little suggestion if i dont follow dayz devs much? How do you know im not taking care of 3 kids and i have a job?

The idea of things like this has just gotten annoying to most that play seriously. This game isn't some, Call of Duty, League of Legends, World of Warcraft bullshit. Sorry dude, but if you want to level up, migrate to a game where fucks will be given when you present a valid suggestion. Here, you will only be met with hostility and '*facepalm*s'. In DayZ, you start off with Bandages, a Flashlight, Painkillers, and an 8 slot bag to hold your things; 99% of the serious, non-newbie DayZ community, myself included, doesn't want that to change any time soon. These perks and abilities you speak of, well, would most likely do just that. Not necessarily does it mean you'd start off with more than the average player, but over time, you would have aventage over others, and in DayZ... NOBODY technically has advantage over anyone when it comes down to it (minus script sissies). When it comes down to it, the only thing that seperates the men from the dead in DayZ, is honestly the will to survive virtually. Many may look at that statement as weird, but trust me... I have seen some bambis do some messed up shit.

Edited February 24, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[BoaDrago 3]

We are hopefully not talking about getting faster, stronger sneakier, or doing more damage blablabla. We are talking about things like being a medic or reparing and flying a helicopter, maybe bringing a generator back to life and restore electrical power or building an underground base...things that need a lot of special knowledge, training and also teamwork.

In this case I fully agree with our sparkling wine loving friend, RL knowledge mixed with ingame experience (subtle microskills) and somekind of hardcore simulators ( including minigames) could be a solution....using simple minigames only or implementing a skill/perk system sucks...

I tottaly agree Jessica, more utility based RL skills, less 'super humans' aka COD style perk system.

[BoaDrago 3]

A progression system in any game kills the fun stone dead.

If it had one I wouldn't buy it.

I think i found the 'ANYONE IN CHERNO?' guy...

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Honestly, only reason I read this post is beacuse I thought it was mentioning things like growing a beard over time, getting dirtty after awhile, sleep deprivation, etc. etc.

[BoaDrago 3]

The idea of things like this has just gotten annoying to most that play seriously.

I just stopped reading there, so basicly you're accussing me of something you know nothing about, ive played this game for about 300-400 hours or so since last year, next time just hop on the rage bus and go home kid, if you are tired of reading something you dont want to read, then just dont read it!

[Uuni 74]

Try to maintain a proper forum etiquette people or someone calls the mods :|

[BoaDrago 3]

Honestly, only reason I read this post is beacuse I thought it was mentioning things like growing a beard over time, getting dirtty after awhile, sleep deprivation, etc. etc.

When i say progression the only things you come up to your mind is getting dirty overtime?

So much for having high expectations.

P.S. get out of my head

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

I just stopped reading there, so basicly you're accussing me of something you know nothing about, ive played this game for about 300-400 hours or so since last year, next time just hop on the rage bus and go home kid, if you are tired of reading something you dont want to read, then just dont read it!

Seems like you are the one on the butthurt bus, trying to flame everyone that shoots down your ignorant idea. Congrats on the 400 hours, :emptycan: <--- that is my fuck can, as you can clearly see, it is quite empty.

You also mentioned people not knowing whether you have kids? Well, I'm married, have a job, and go to college, your point is? Why are you on the game so much if you have kids? I read bullshit like yours, because it is funny to see how stupid some of the suggestions are, and this ones a hum-dinger.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Try to maintain a proper forum etiquette people or someone calls the mods :|

When someone makes an idea, but can't take criticisms, then there is bound to be chaos when he starts a flame war.