Reduce artificial difficulty (randomness) and increase real difficulty in SA

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

One thing I dislike in dayz is the artificlal difficulty added by the random 'issues':

- you get a chance of infection by eating raw meat

- you get a chance of infection by drinking not boiled water

- you get a chance of infection by being hit by a Z

...and so on

That's just a cheap way to make the game appear more difficult and challenging when all you need to defetat those 'issues' is either a box of matches or 2 antibiotics you can pick up in Elektro when you start.

I have no problems in having the game more difficult and to die for a good reason (e.g. I was cornered by Zombies), but this 'one of chance' thing does not add anything and it is only annoying.

Make better Zombies, or less loot and game (make them run away from you as well) instead - that is a real problem to deal with.

_Anubis_

Edited February 19, 2013 by _Anubis_

[GOD™ 2795]

There will be "better zombies" in the standalone.

So don't worry.

;)

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

So you're arguing against sickness?

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

So you're arguing against sickness?

Nope.

I dislike cheap random problems (e.g. random sickness) which take nothing to be avoided and are just annoying.

If there was in dayz the "one in a chance to be hit by a lightning while being outdoor with a thunderstorm (because it could happen as well in RL)" I would consider that stupid as well.

As I said, make the SA difficult by having worthy problems to solve and not random events.

_Anubis_

[joe_mcentire 2073]

well guess what...why do we have such things as probabilites and stochastic calculus? Pretty damn many things in our world can be pretty damn accurately described by them! This is no invention of gaming industry. Our world happens to function that way, therefore it is in my opinion absolutely okay the way it is.

What would Mr. Bernoulli or Mr. Laplace say to that?!

Edited February 19, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[CreepySalad 108]

Well things like that in real life are randomized, and you can always take precautions to not get sick.

This IS supposed to be realistic survival experience.

Cook your meat before you eat it, and don't get hit by zombies. There, your problem is gone.

[The2ndLink 156]

I've read somewhere on this forum that you can actually get hit by lightning. :P

Probably only a DayZ myth at the time.

I'm not sure what you mean by " random 'issues' " but i know sicknes will be a big part in the standalone. Maybe a bit less random, for example you could get an infection from looting a dead infectet player.

Personally I think that is a good aproach. You will need to rethink your actions in the standalone.

[RayPugh 146]

you sound like the type of guy who dosent want to get slowed down by game mechanics. the whole point of dayz is survival, not to deathmatch in cherno. the standalone will be very much more like you vrs the world. rocket has mentioned a whole game mechanic based on the infection system which would lend to there being alot more depth in how one gets sick and what you would need to alleviate your suffering or cure the infection. i for one am looking forward to finding out just how many different ways 'the world' can kill you in the SA

[DemonGroover 8836]

Well sometimes things like sickness are random. One person in a family can get food poisoning for instance while another one wont - i suppose it depends on who gets the random piece of horse meat and who doesnt.

[Bludy 324]

sickness is random also irl..you can increase or lower your chances but you don't really have control..

[Roark92 90]

it bothers me that so many people are blinded by their habit of defending this mod for no reason other than they think they should. not addressing half of the implications or intentions of posts just to strengthen their own arguments, when it should be a discussion. totally not attacking anyone but i see it all the time all over the forums especially in suggestions.

the guy is right. however there SHOULD be these random inconveniences and dangers that can turn your world upside down, but the game should not RELY on them to provide the challenge, which it DOES. its a cheap trick, since it cant actually make zombies dangerous or make basic survival difficult. its not game-bashing its just the reality of it. so he seems right to me on at least half of it.

as everyone here never ceases to talk about, "dayz is unforgiving and brutal blah blah" i could say the same thing about skyrim if i modded it so that your character has a chance to drop his weapon every 10 seconds. its moderation and balancing the events one can control and the events one can't that matters.

lets be realistic here, its too buggy to even judge. take it at face value, and lets all reassess our positions with the standalone.

[CreepySalad 108]

it bothers me that so many people are blinded by their habit of defending this mod for no reason other than they think they should. not addressing half of the implications or intentions of posts just to strengthen their own arguments, when it should be a discussion. totally not attacking anyone but i see it all the time all over the forums especially in suggestions.

the guy is right. however there SHOULD be these random inconveniences and dangers that can turn your world upside down, but the game should not RELY on them to provide the challenge, which it DOES. its a cheap trick, since it cant actually make zombies dangerous or make basic survival difficult. its not game-bashing its just the reality of it. so he seems right to me on at least half of it.

as everyone here never ceases to talk about, "dayz is unforgiving and brutal blah blah" i could say the same thing about skyrim if i modded it so that your character has a chance to drop his weapon every 10 seconds. its moderation and balancing the events one can control and the events one can't that matters.

lets be realistic here, its too buggy to even judge. take it at face value, and lets all reassess our positions with the standalone.

The Skyrim thing you said is irrelevant.

The game is about survival. That's the main point of the game. That's where the danger lies.

If Skyrim was modded so that you drop your weapon every ten seconds, that wouldn't make any sense.

Getting a disease from being scratched by a diseased corpse, or eating raw meat doesn't make any sense to you guys?

[FlashHawk4 44]

...you do realize we're defending the mod because we ENJOY the way it is now, right?

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

it bothers me that so many people are blinded by their habit of defending this mod for no reason other than they think they should. not addressing half of the implications or intentions of posts just to strengthen their own arguments, when it should be a discussion. totally not attacking anyone but i see it all the time all over the forums especially in suggestions.

the guy is right. however there SHOULD be these random inconveniences and dangers that can turn your world upside down, but the game should not RELY on them to provide the challenge, which it DOES. its a cheap trick, since it cant actually make zombies dangerous or make basic survival difficult. its not game-bashing its just the reality of it. so he seems right to me on at least half of it.

as everyone here never ceases to talk about, "dayz is unforgiving and brutal blah blah" i could say the same thing about skyrim if i modded it so that your character has a chance to drop his weapon every 10 seconds. its moderation and balancing the events one can control and the events one can't that matters.

lets be realistic here, its too buggy to even judge. take it at face value, and lets all reassess our positions with the standalone.

Preventing sickness is a real problem that definitely has a place in the game. Disease would be a very real danger in a world like this, unlike your weapon drop example, so why shouldn't it be an aspect in DayZ? Do you think nothing is left up to chance in survival? Is there anything we can do to prevent that random sniper from braining us at 1000m? That's still chance, just not represented as a game mechanic. Without chance, randomness and chaos, what would this game be?

[Lupatchi 143]

arams fault, not dayz

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

The message is not coming through. Let me try again:

Now in dayz you may get an infection (random) according to certain events. The chance is rather low according to what I have seen in the source code.

Does this really make the game realistic/brutal/challenging/survival struggle/zombie apocalypse/bla-bla-bla ? Nope. It takes one single trip to Elektro/Cherno or harvesting deer stands (things you do anyway if you have half a brain...) to find 1-2 boxes of antibiotics.

Matches to light a fire you must have so I do not even mention them.

Problem solved forever. What does the random-infection-risk add now? Nothing at all. Forget about it.

What would add a cleverer zombie to the game? What would add animals that run away from you if you make noise (as it happens in real life... Ever been in a REAL forest?) ?

A lot. You would have to deal with those issues every day.

_Anubis_

Edited February 20, 2013 by _Anubis_

[RayPugh 146]

your still getting hung up on what the mod lacks, as prieviously stated rocket has mentioned a vast expansion in the sickness dept for the SA. ie its not just going to be 'pop a few pills' and back along on your merry way should you find yourself infected. i know the mod is easy to beat but rocket is not seling it as anything more is he?

we know the mod is lacking in depth and endgame content, we enjoy to play it for other reasons.

and no i do not bum rocket or defend his mod

[Bribase 251]

That's much more clear, Anubis. And I think you're right, too many of the mechanics as they stand seem probabilistic and somewhat arbitrary. In pain? Use painkillers. Bleeding? Use a bandage. Broken leg? Morphine. Coughing? Antibiotics.

These mechanics, while an interesting feature of the game and worth keeping, often boil down to having the equipment needed to solve the problem or needing to find it. Once the problem is solved there are no subsequent issues. It makes the features seem tacked on in their present state.

SA, with it's broadening of the survival system is going to turn this around IMO. Infection will be trackable and there will be ways of lowering your risk, there will doubtlessly be side effects of morphine/painkiller use and long term effects of major injuries. This will work to make the features an intrinsic part of the game instead of an artificial hinderance.

The zombies will no doubt be smarter and less easy to exploit in the SA. The simple fact that they will run indoors will amplify them as a threat, and that's without the extensive recode. I really want to see hunting become a skill in itself in-game, though. Something that players can dedicate their time to, to make a "living" out of.

[FlashHawk4 44]

^^

This game is in *alpha*. Just as an FYI. Everything you're complaining about is being fixed for the main release.

[rpatto92@hotmail.com 26]

well guess what...why do we have such things as probabilites and stochastic calculus? Pretty damn many things in our world can be pretty damn accurately described by them! This is no invention of gaming industry. Our world happens to function that way, therefore it is in my opinion absolutely okay the way it is.

What would Mr. Bernoulli or Mr. Laplace say to that?!

Yes but in mathematics; they attempt to describe as many variables as possible to get the most accurate result . In this game you get sick or you don't get sick. The best way emulate sickness: is by having factors, that will eventually reach a tipping point; infecting the character. So in other words you need a myriad of events to unfold to get sick; this systems is better because its predictable to a point and as people aren't subject to the exact figures plus add in the fact that certain events are unpredictable, you end up with a very real system.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

That's not what i would call difficulty. More like a calculated risk. Do you rather risk starving to death or will you eat raw meat, knowing that it's not something you should do because of the risk of infection.

[CreepySalad 108]

The message is not coming through. Let me try again:

Now in dayz you may get an infection (random) according to certain events. The chance is rather low according to what I have seen in the source code.

Does this really make the game realistic/brutal/challenging/survival struggle/zombie apocalypse/bla-bla-bla ? Nope. It takes one single trip to Elektro/Cherno or harvesting deer stands (things you do anyway if you have half a brain...) to find 1-2 boxes of antibiotics.

Matches to light a fire you must have so I do not even mention them.

Problem solved forever. What does the random-infection-risk add now? Nothing at all. Forget about it.

What would add a cleverer zombie to the game? What would add animals that run away from you if you make noise (as it happens in real life... Ever been in a REAL forest?) ?

A lot. You would have to deal with those issues every day.

_Anubis_

You implied it was difficult, and unfair.

Anyway, no. Medical stuff is being revamped.

You were complaining about the way sickness works, like if we get rid of that, the zombies would become clever, and animals would run away from you.